Comments on: Poll: In the wake of the Ryan Madson deal, who’s the biggest sucker?

By: Francisco (FC)

Francisco (FC) — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 16:07:52 +0000

That’s why Craig is the Master. Honestly folks, it’s all in good fun. Whenever I see stuff like that I have a chuckle and move on. I don’t even bother commenting directly (after all that’s why it’s called BAITING!).

By: bozosforall

bozosforall — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 00:03:05 +0000

Bailey is chopped liver and he will be exposed in 2012. Chop..chop..chop.

What has he done LATELY? Oh yeah…3.24 ERA. Those other two smaller numbers are in his rear view window and it will only get worse pitching against the AL East hitters.

By: bozosforall

bozosforall — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 00:01:04 +0000

Through thick and thin? You must be the ONLY one, as most of the rest of the Red Sox “fans” are about to jump off of the bandwagon that they jumped on in 2004.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:55:04 +0000

Hey Rabbit, I’m trying to stay warm but this stomach virus I came down with last night is making it really tough. I feel like death warmed over. And I can agree with your assessment there. There weren’t any FA bats that fit a position the Phills could have used. If they need to bolster the offense It’ll have to come via trade I think. I do think Amaro may put a bit too much value on closers, but so do many other teams. I’m thinking we may see Polanco get traded away if he doesn’t keep his obp up. I don’t think Cuddyer was the answer actually as mentioned the team is getting a little “long in the tooth”.

By: phillyphreak

phillyphreak — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:48:21 +0000

Whew. The WIP contingent of Phillies fans is in full effect today….

By: hammyofdoom

hammyofdoom — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:33:05 +0000

Ruben. no question. Seriously, the single most irritating thing that GM’s do to me is pay for saves and thinking that the 9th inning is sacred somehow. Honestly I loved papelbon and I was actually pretty damn sad at thinking that Shipping out to Boston will not play when the doors open in the 9th, but when I saw the money spent I literally laughed. I loved the guy, and he did great for the Sox but seeing him play the past couple of years he has had weird stretches where all he does is throw fastballs in hittable areas and the balls go a long LONG way. There were a ton of times where the 380 feet out to right field bailed his ass out, and he suddenly became a scary pitcher to watch. I think he’ll be great for half of this deal, but the fact that a CLOSER was paid for this much money is goddamn crazy

By: 24missed

24missed — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 22:08:26 +0000

What’s that tell me about being a Boston fan right now?

Through thick and thin, buddy. I can appreciate a team and root for my team. I’m a lifer. Last I heard, the team didn’t dump Francona or Theo. The team didn’t let Papelbon walk. I think the F.O. makes those decisions. Not the pitchers, catchers, position players, bullpen guys, utility players, coaches and so on.

What’s that tell me about being a Boston fan now? Same as any other day. I’m a Boston fan. That’s the team I root for. I’m not ashamed. I really don’t get that, at all.

By: seanmk

seanmk — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 21:28:09 +0000

Ruben’s pattern is getting in first, and when you get in first you pay the highest prices on the market. it’s not totally a bad thing but at the same time there is an option to wait for better deals. Howard hasn’t put up the numbers you are describing over the past two years, and i’m not sure he’ll be able to do it this year with the injury.

rbis totals as a measure of evaluating how “good a player are”, aren’t the best way to measure a player, since it’s a function of having people on base ahead of you. If you never have anyone on base you can’t get as many RBIs so how is that supposed to tell me how good a guy is when everyone gets different opportunities.

plus as phillies fans you know as well as i do that there is a game plan to get ryan howard out, and that’s a lefty pitcher that can throw to the outside corner with a breaking ball. He can’t lay off it and he hasn’t made the adjustment of moving closer to the plate to reach it. sometimes he will be closer to the plate at the start of the year but he backs off from it as the year goes on. he did well early in his career average wise because teams didn’t employ the shift, but now that they do he’ll always have hits taken away from him.

He has historic elite opposite field power, but is average to below average in just about every other area(fielding, running, throwing and plate discipline), yet he is paid like a superstar. as annoying as the papelbon contract is, he is legitimately a top 3 reliever/closer and paid that way. Ryan howard is paid like a top 5 first baseman, and i could make a case he’s not in the top 10, but that there’s at least 6 1st basemen in the league id’ rather have (pujols, votto, gonzalez, cabrera, fielder, teixeria) .

By: irishphilly87

irishphilly87 — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 21:04:41 +0000

Love the comment. Everyone loves to hate on Philly. Look at the NY Rangers fan that got beat up outside of Geno’s by guys in Flyers jerseys. Everyone nationally was saying typical Philly. but look around the country. Look at LA they have friggin rival gangs at games. They stab people, they beat people to a coma, they have shootings at season openers. Look at NY shit happens all the times on the subways, and look at boston they’re the most arrogant people in the country and all they do is pick fights if ur not from “baaaaaston”

By: irishphilly87

irishphilly87 — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 20:46:38 +0000

And you’re an idiot if you think Amaro spent $40 million too much. Congrats that madson’s idiot agent got him $8 mil because he was desparate. We just got the top 2 closer in the game the past 5 years in papelbon. Heath Bell for $20 mil cheaper might have been the only other option that you could put up an argument about. But im sorry closer is an important position and Madson who has had 1 full closing year was askin for $45-50 mil, so Paps (who is top 2 past 5 years) got that. Its what the market was. Everybody keep hating on the phils, we won a world series in 08′ and we’ve had the best record in baseball the past 2 years with most of the past 2 seasons especialyl last year we had a DEPLETED LINEUP n still got 102 wins. Championships r won with timely hitting and good pitching it seems, and we absolutely didn’t timely hit the past 2 years, and Cliff Lee’s gota earn his $25 mil in the post season instead of giving up 5 runs n losing a 4 run lead. Im confident this year itll all come together and Doc n gang will be holding up the trophy.

By: irishphilly87

irishphilly87 — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 20:35:59 +0000

Craig your poll is ridiculous especially putting Phillies Fans as a choice. you’re more annoying that that Tosh 2.0 on Comedy Central. I feel like you shouldn’t even be able to write about sports because you seem like the type that skips over a puddle in the girliest fashion a guy could skip. You prolly bring skipping to a whole other level. On another note, let me tell ya something. The phillies are going to beat up ur Braves. Theyre gona beat up the new Miami Marlins and that loudmouth Ozzie Guillen and we are going to take the East. Then we are going to take the NL. Every threat of ours in the NL got weaker, the Cardinals lost Pujols and the Brewers lost Fielder n Braun is prolly going to be suspended. We are going to take the NL, and we are going to be in the dance in the World Series, put it down , gurantee it that the Phils are going to be there.

By: Utley's Hair

Utley's Hair — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 20:20:46 +0000

Chris, in what universe do you reside? More boobs are useless? WTF have you been drinking?!?

By: phillieschamps2012

phillieschamps2012 — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 20:02:58 +0000

Chris, thanks for the warning. I have seen this jive talk go on long enough to not get into the thick of things here. I clearly see an anti-Phillies bias going on here. Ryan Howard is one of the most prolific power hitters in the history of the game and is constantly belittled. Truth. The Phillies overpaid for the best closer on the market and will rue the day they did so. Nonsense. Pitcher wins mean nothing. Nonsense. RBIs mean nothing. Nonsense.

The only nonsense I see here is Wins above Replacement.

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:54:28 +0000

Phllieschamps…I warned you in a previous thread about using “heart and scrappiness” on HBT when describing a player. I feel remiss for not giving you a more full warning.

1). Ryan Howard is overrated, his RBI totals are as meaningless as a third tit, and his contract is the single worst document signed in the history of modern humanity.

2). The save stat is meaningless. Getting those last outs can be done by anybody anytime anywhere no matter the situation, the team, the city, or anything. The three last outs are no more pressure filled than the first three outs of the game. Period.

3). Pitcher wins is meaningless. All that matters is xFIP. Period.

4). When comparing players the be-all end-all is Wins Above Replacement. Even though it uses subjective defensive stats and two different places can sometimes haw a vastly different WAR number, it doesn’t matter. For example, a first baseman who hits .390 with 100 home runs and 4,000 RBIs is probably not as good as that SD who hit .285 with 35 home runs and a UZR of 9. Why? Because the first baseman was only 7.6 Wins Above his Replacement while the SS was a full 8 Wins Above his Replacement. Period.

Ill try to let you in on more I have learned from HBT as I remember it.

By: The Rabbit

The Rabbit — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:36:16 +0000

Hey Jonny. Hope you are keeping warm.
I agree with you 100%, but it’s beyond my ability to stay on point so I’ll add the following….
If the Phillies have unlimited money for players and aren’t concerned about trivial things like the luxury tax, then the Papelbon acquisition doesn’t matter. Given the quality of the starting rotation if the Phillies could score more runs, they wouldn’t need a billion dollar reliever. Most of the time, Halladay doesn’t even need a pen.
With Howard hurt, Rollins’ injury history, and Utley declining with age, IMHO, the Phillies could really use a proven impact bat. If the Papelbon signing limits the Phillies resources to sign a quality offensive player (and keep Hamels who was a top 10 NL pitcher last season), it may not matter who is closing.

By: drmonkeyarmy

drmonkeyarmy — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:32:19 +0000

Paper,
Saying the Phillies choked in the first round of the playoffs is kind of demeaning the performance of your team, no? Secondly, given the small sample size can there really be such a thing as choking or rather just an odd statistical occurrence that would have remedied itself if the series were of a proper length (like 13 games)?

By: xmatt0926x

xmatt0926x — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:01:13 +0000

I’m a Phillies fan and not a blind Amaro loyalist as i’ve posted a few times here in the past. There’s been some good but I also believe there’s been a little more that is questionable at best. I’ll wait until this era is past to decide how good a job I think he did. The one thing I will say is that this topic is a little unfair. I think Palpebon was an overpay, but I don’t think you can just look at Madson for $8.5 million for 1 season and make a direct comparison. Let’s be real. The Phillies would have never gotten that done with Madson. Madson did what he just did because he was forced to do so just to find a job this season as Boras finally got bit in the ass with holding his free agents back too long. The Phillies are a serious contender for the title and had to fill that need. Can we honestly say they could have known what was going to happen with the closer market and waited until mid January to fill that role? I don’t think so. I think the mistake was jumping on Palpebon so soon but I don’t think they could have held out until now in hopes of getting madson for 1 year. Remember, Madson turned down arbitration which would have netted him more than $8.5 million for this season. This is a Boras f-up that has nothing to do with Amaro or the Phillies. As far as the drool monkeys that talk about the Phillies fans always falling for Craig’s bait, go look in the mirror. Are the non-Phillies fans that jump to trash Phillies who jump like Pavlov’s dogs whenever they get a chance to trash Philly fans doing anything better than the Philly fans that are quick to defend themselves when Craig pulls one of his “bait the Philly fan” posts? It’s lame on all sides.

By: 12strikes

12strikes — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 18:53:45 +0000

You have to make it to the playoffs to choke in the playoffs.

By: phillyphreak

phillyphreak — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 18:37:59 +0000

I think if they let the situation play out they wouldn’t have overpaid so much. I’m not assuming Papelbon would have still been on the market, and quite frankly, I wouldn’t have cared if he was or wasn’t. I didn’t think closer was the main priority this offseason.

The only way Madson would have accepted arbitration is if the Phillies didn’t sign Papelbon. I would have preferred that to the Papelbon deal or I would have preferred them to let everything play out and sign Madson again. I don’t think Papelbon is heads and tails better than Madson (skill wise, not this “proven” closer stuff).

By: siftin thru nonsense

siftin thru nonsense — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 18:28:20 +0000

Wait a sec? 40M difference?? what are u talking about here? Youre like the people that just look at flat debt amounts and not the $/gdp. OK, the difference has to be compared per yr. 50M/4 = 12.5 per yr. vs Madson’s 8.5 per yr. So that is a 4million difference. Big deal. Madson blew it.

By: drmonkeyarmy

drmonkeyarmy — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 18:12:15 +0000

Once again, commenters who have nothing else to do put troll Phillies phans are extreme phucking losers who need to step out of the basement and get laid every once and awhile.

By: phukyouk

phukyouk — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:55:06 +0000

I honestly cannot think of a better response to that statement. the guy isn’t even the 5th best closer in baseball…

By: phukyouk

phukyouk — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:52:42 +0000

I got $100 that this is ‘Cepts with a name change.

By: b7p19

b7p19 — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:45:27 +0000

I seem to remember someone with a similar handle to this coming on here last year…only the year was different. I think it was 2011. Surprisingly, I haven’t seen that name for a while.

By: b7p19

b7p19 — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:41:32 +0000

Wow, thats a frustrating argument. So, just becuase his talents are more marketable than yours it doesn’t matter that he left millions of dollars on the table? Of course he regrets not signing sooner, he lost money. And whether the Phillies regret the Pap deal yet or not, they certainly see now that they could have waited and saved $40 mil. Maybe Papelbon pitches like Rivera for 5 years and the Phillies win two more championships, but if he doesn’t and they don’t it was a bad deal.

Andy Reid is a great coach, deal with it. Does it make you feel good that you chose to represent yourself with a statement about Andy Reids weight? Is that what you’ve come to, really?

By: paperlions

paperlions — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:18:55 +0000

Yes, and…it was a mistake….Joe Blanton was a mistake, trading away Cliff Lee for peanuts was a mistake, giving $12M/year for 4 (or 5) years to a reliever is a mistake (at the very least, it is a highly inefficient use of resources), Raul Ibanez’s contract was a mistake (too long, too much money), Polanco’s contract was a mistake (too many years)….RAJ has given out way too much money to declining players…he’s just lucky enough to have a lot of it to give away. The Phillies have a LOT of money tied up in old, declining players for many years to come.

By: The Baseball Gods

The Baseball Gods — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:16:10 +0000

Andrew Bailey is not chopped liver. He might not be Papelbon quality, but he has been a very good closer the past 3 seasons. He didn’t have as good of a year last season (3.24 ERA), but when you are a closer for 2 years with ERA’s of 1.84 and 1.47 I wouldn’t exactly call that chopped liver.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:07:15 +0000

Well, he doesn’t have a real job, so he has plenty of time, he can even track the FA moves made by the Phillies so they might not…..you know…..choke in the first round of the playoffs in ’12.

By: phillieschamps2012

phillieschamps2012 — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:06:52 +0000

People should be ashamed to be Red Sox fans. Who could appreciate a team that dumps it’s best manager that it ever had, along with it’s best GM? Then, let one of the games best closers walk without even a contract offer? What’s that tell you about being a Boston fan right now?

By: natstowngreg

natstowngreg — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:03:57 +0000

Same thing happened last year with Werth. The Nats didn’t have to give up the #6 pick in the draft. Meanwhile, the White Sox had to give pick #23 to the Nats for Adam Dunn.