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NBC SportsTalk: The Montero-Pineda trade

Jan 17, 2012, 8:50 AM EDT

Michael Pineda Getty Images

I was on NBC SportsTalk last night, talking with my buddy Russ Thaler about the Jesus MonteroMichael Pineda trade. Video below.  Watch for the moment when I called Jose Campos “that fireballer” because my brain locked and I was terrified that I was going to call him “Jorge Campos” and knew that wasn’t right but didn’t think fast enough to be certain.  Ah, live TV!

Not in the video: Russ and I talking beforehand about how that trade was not leaked at all by anyone and how the Yankees always seem to keep that kind of info under wraps. It’s uncanny.

My first theory: fear! They are the Evil Empire, after all, and maybe they have people randomly killed if they leak stuff to the press.  More likely: decision making is done by a really small group of people in the Bronx, and there thus aren’t a lot of assistant GMs and secretaries to the whoever floating around important phone calls, thereby preventing leaks.

Eh, it’s a theory.

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  1. uyf1950 - Jan 17, 2012 at 9:12 AM

    Craig, I like this trade a lot for the Yankees. I agree it’s a trade that benefited both the Yankees and the Mariners. I don’t think there is very much doubt that Montero has an enormous amount of potential but with the Yankees he was never going to be more then a DH at least not for the next 4 or 5 years. And the Yankees desperately needed to upgrade their rotation and Pineda gives them that immediate upgrade not only in 2012 but beyond. In today’s day and age teams very seldom get to acquire a potential #1 who is just 22 (soon to be 23) year old. And anytime a team can do that and have it cost them basically only a DH (even a very good DH) they have to jump on the opportunity.

    Then you throw in basically what was Campos for Noesi and the Yankees couldn’t have asked for more. Campos gives the Yankees something that the NEW CBA virtually made impossible for them to get. A top 5 “prospect” that if he was in the draft next year the Yankees never would have gotten. Not only because they would never draft that high but because of the new slotting system and penalties.

    And the Mariners got what they have needed. A potential impact bat and a potential middle of the rotation pitcher in Noesi that they can plug into their rotation almost immediately. It’s a win, win for both teams. I just think a slightly bigger win for the Yankees.

    • CJ - Jan 17, 2012 at 9:41 AM

      sorry, I don’t see anyway the Mariners won this deal. For the price and length that they had Pineda locked up, they should’ve gotten much more. Maybe one could make a case that it was a fair trade if Pineda was in his arb years already.

      I already liked Pineda a lot, but I think he’ll be great in NYC. There aren’t many successful pitchers with his build in the majors, and I don’t think his having CC now to learn from should be underestimated. I just wish he wasn’t gift-wrapped for a guy who’s the top hitting prospect at a position he can’t play to save his life. Montero may do well, but you don’t trade a potential #1/#2 starter for a guy who projects by most as a career DH.

      If you could guarantee me right now that Montero would become a HOF DH, I still wouldn’t make that deal. I don’t care how good the guy is, a DH isn’t near as valuable as young, proven starter with ace potential.

      • uyf1950 - Jan 17, 2012 at 9:54 AM

        My friend, I didn’t say the Mariners “won” the deal. I said it’s a win, win for both teams. The Mariners got something they have sorely needed for a few years now. But as I said above “….a slightly bigger win for the Yankees”.

      • CJ - Jan 17, 2012 at 10:19 AM

        A win-win means both teams got fair value. I fail to see where the Mariners did. The Yankees clearly won this deal. They got a pitcher with MLB experience, a high ceiling, and they did so on the cheap (I guess that’s a win-win-win). There’s no positive in this for the Mariners IMO.

        Doesn’t matter how long they’ve needed a DH, you don’t give up a young stud pitcher who’s under club control for that long to get him. A catcher? Maybe you do that, but there isn’t a signle encouraging sign that Montero can do that even in the short term, let alone for the next 5 years or so.

      • uyf1950 - Jan 17, 2012 at 10:25 AM

        CJ – that’s what win, win may mean to you. To me it meant both teams got something that satisfied a glaring need for their respective teams. And gave up something they felt was needed as much.

        I guess it just depends how you look at it.

      • uyf1950 - Jan 17, 2012 at 10:27 AM

        * …wasn’t needed as much.

        Sorry about that.

      • phillyphreak - Jan 17, 2012 at 10:48 AM

        I agree with uyf. It’s a win for both teams because they got something they both need. I’m uncomfortable with labeling a winner and loser in every trade; as long as the team fills the need (and they didn’t trade, for example, Halladay for Willie Mo Pena) it’s fine.

        A few other things:

        They have Montero locked up for six years too now. I know they had Pineda for five but they desperately needed offense. As per KG over a BP, Seattle hit “.233/.292/.348 ” last season. Yikes. As important as pitching is, they need offense too. And you have to give something to get something as they say. Or so I’m told.

        Pineda does have CC to learn from now- but he had Felix to learn from too. So, it’s not like that’s a win for the Yankees or anything.

        “If you could guarantee me right now that Montero would become a HOF DH, I still wouldn’t make that deal.”

        I’d do that in a second. That’s better than Edgar numbers then, according to voting recently.

        I get the feeling that the Yankees got some really true talent in Pineda as well. I just don’t see how you can say Seattle didn’t get something equally important to them in return. And if you think they did get something important, then it’s a win for them too.

      • CJ - Jan 17, 2012 at 10:58 AM

        I just can’t justify calling a #2 starter for a #4 and a DH fair value. Being a Philly fan I know full well how hardcore fans (over)value their own prospects since they know them far better than those from other teams, and I think this is a case of that. Look at the other deals for pitching that went down earlier this year, and look at how desperately the Yankees of all teams needed it. I just think Seattle could–and should–have gotten more.

        We’ll find out who won several years down the line, but any time you give up someone with Pineda’s potential, you can’t just hang your hat on “well, we REALLY needed a DH, and that makes it fair b/c my need for a DH is just as great as their need for a pitcher.” Pitching is the premium position.

      • phillyphreak - Jan 17, 2012 at 12:05 PM

        I agree that pitching is really important. But by building up Pineda’s value because he’s a pitcher you’re knocking (unintentionally) Montero’s value.

        “well, we REALLY needed a DH, and that makes it fair b/c my need for a DH is just as great as their need for a pitcher.”

        – But that is exactly what trades are supposed to do.

      • n5605p - Jan 17, 2012 at 1:47 PM

        I also see this as a win-win, likely with an edge for the Yankees.

        Pineda has had arm trouble and pitchers in general are more fragile than hitters. So, while he may have high potential, I think Montero’s potential is more likely to happen than Pineda’s. So, I see the Yankees part as higher risk/higher reward.

    • phukyouk - Jan 17, 2012 at 10:01 AM

      I agree with 99.99% of everything you said here.. except that i LOVE LOVE LOVE this trade. L-O-V- FUC*ING- E

      • uyf1950 - Jan 17, 2012 at 10:26 AM

        phukyouk – Why don’t you tell us how you really feel.

      • phukyouk - Jan 17, 2012 at 10:38 AM

        meh… its ok

  2. dirtyharry1971 - Jan 17, 2012 at 9:31 AM

    craig i think its time for newer frames, those things went out of style back in the 1960’s. You look like you could have worked in the johnson administration

  3. CJ - Jan 17, 2012 at 9:32 AM

    Don’t worry about it Craig. It’s not like you said “boned” on live TV or anything. Well, not this week anyway.

    See? Progress!

  4. bozosforall - Jan 17, 2012 at 11:44 AM

    Good trade for both sides, but what most people fail to realize is that Pineda will benefit greatly from being under Rothschild’s tutelage (which is what makes this move better for the Yankees long-term). Montero will flourish in Seattle as well, so the Mariners aren’t losers here at all.

  5. Kyle - Jan 17, 2012 at 12:56 PM

    As an M’s fan, I’m slowly coming around to view this trade as pretty even. Slight edge to the Yankees at present, but a lot can happen in 5 years, as we all know.

    • shawnuel - Jan 17, 2012 at 1:33 PM

      I agree with most everyone here. Win/Win with a slight advantage to the Yanks. Couple of things…..It is totally possible that the Mariners keep Montero at catcher all 6 years of control and cut their losses afterward because they won’t have to deal with his aches and pains as he ages. Yes, unsentimental but decent business. Also, I think people are undervaluing Noesi as a trade piece. Pitchers with his type of command/ground ball profile are almost always successful. Heck, the Twins FILL their rotations with these types of guys (Radke, Slowey, Baker etc.) but Noesi has some additional velocity and really good K/BB numbers in his Milb resume. He is young, also with room to still improve. If he were able to refine his two offspeed offerings (besides the change) his career path would not be much less than that of Pineda. Yes, a few “ifs” but not out of the question. Lots of scouts REALLY like this guy and not just Yankee scouts.

      • bozosforall - Jan 17, 2012 at 2:44 PM

        You are right about Noesi. He is a solid pitcher with some room for growth. Probably will never be a superstar but he kept the Yankees in several games by not giving up runs.

  6. foreverchipper10 - Jan 17, 2012 at 6:06 PM

    Hey Craig, what is the background when you do these? It looks like a poster full of baseball cards. Is that yours or is it an NBC prop?

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