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<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Ryan Braun got off on a &#8220;technicality?&#8221; Bull!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/</link>
	<description>Baseball. Baseball. And then a bit more baseball.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 02:31:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: conjecture101</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-3/#comment-264878</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[conjecture101]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2012 00:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-264878</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stop defending Ryan Bruan just because you like him.

&quot;Less culpable&quot; is not the same thing is innocent. So if you ask us to look at Barry Bonds stats as essentially worthless, stop asking us to make an exception for Braun just because he&#039;s a great public speaker with great lawyers.

The sword you used to slay Barry Bonds is the same one you&#039;re using to defend Ryan Braun.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stop defending Ryan Bruan just because you like him.</p>
<p>&#8220;Less culpable&#8221; is not the same thing is innocent. So if you ask us to look at Barry Bonds stats as essentially worthless, stop asking us to make an exception for Braun just because he&#8217;s a great public speaker with great lawyers.</p>
<p>The sword you used to slay Barry Bonds is the same one you&#8217;re using to defend Ryan Braun.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: protius</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-264736</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[protius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 10:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-264736</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;possibility&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>possibility</i></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: protius</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-264735</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[protius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 10:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-264735</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[possibility]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>possibility</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: protius</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-264734</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[protius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 10:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-264734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t mind me, I&#039;m just practicing a few things.

&lt;b&gt;possibility&lt;/b&gt;
possibility
&lt;bpossibility&lt;/b]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t mind me, I&#8217;m just practicing a few things.</p>
<p><b>possibility</b><br />
possibility<br />
&lt;bpossibility&lt;/b</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: protius</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-264680</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[protius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 02:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-264680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I played D&amp;D for 2 months or so while at university. It is a lot of fun, but it took up a lot of my time and unfortunately, time was something I had little to spare in those days. 

We played once a week, and I think I was Gimli (or not), a character from Lord of the Rings. We played it as a board game. We used dice to determine moves, and hits and degree of power etc. I think there were also cards used to determine other things that I just don’t remember any more. But I do remember it lasted long into the night, and beer and pizza were involved.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I played D&amp;D for 2 months or so while at university. It is a lot of fun, but it took up a lot of my time and unfortunately, time was something I had little to spare in those days. </p>
<p>We played once a week, and I think I was Gimli (or not), a character from Lord of the Rings. We played it as a board game. We used dice to determine moves, and hits and degree of power etc. I think there were also cards used to determine other things that I just don’t remember any more. But I do remember it lasted long into the night, and beer and pizza were involved.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Gene Zonarich</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-3/#comment-264297</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gene Zonarich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 19:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-264297</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;stex&quot; hit the nail on the head:  &quot;But the other is that you can be made to believe that the chain of custody will protect you.  The system failed him; and he should walk. I hope he was clean. But we won’t know one way or the other from that test. And that is as should be.&quot;

Arguing over whether it was a &quot;technicality&quot; is pointless.  I haven&#039;t read every comment here, so I hope I&#039;m not just repeating what someone else said, but there is one thing to keep in mind that is easily overlooked in the passionate debate of drugs in the UNIONIZED workplace.  I emphasize that word because the parties to a collective bargaining agreement must both live up to the written language -- the rules -- to which they have bargained to agreement, and which they will follow in conduct of all their dealings together. And in drug testing procedures in the CBA, it is not at all uncommon for there to be specific language to the effect that if the procedure is not followed exactly, and to the letter, the result will be void.

There is also a reason why the panel of arbitrators agreed to have a ruling issued without an explanatory written opinion.  At least one of the parties -- and I think we all know which one -- knew that they had a seriously flawed case, but could not or would not want this exposed with language issued by the neutral arbitrator that could hurt them in future cases, or in litigation.

And as far as any appeals go, the chances of an appeal by MLB being upheld by the courts is slim to none.  Arbitrators&#039; rulings are generally not overturned unless the arbitrator blantantly ignored the parties CBA, or if his ruling was in reckless violation of public policy and would have harmed the public in some significant way.  Certainly not the case here.  

Only one disagreement with the article.  Rules governing drug testing, since they affect the livelihood of the employee (resulting in suspension or discharge) are held to the highest standard, not lower than &quot;beyond a reasonable doubt.&quot;  What seems to be a &quot;technicality&quot; will cast doubt on the test result and nullify it.  And that&#039;s what happened here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;stex&#8221; hit the nail on the head:  &#8220;But the other is that you can be made to believe that the chain of custody will protect you.  The system failed him; and he should walk. I hope he was clean. But we won’t know one way or the other from that test. And that is as should be.&#8221;</p>
<p>Arguing over whether it was a &#8220;technicality&#8221; is pointless.  I haven&#8217;t read every comment here, so I hope I&#8217;m not just repeating what someone else said, but there is one thing to keep in mind that is easily overlooked in the passionate debate of drugs in the UNIONIZED workplace.  I emphasize that word because the parties to a collective bargaining agreement must both live up to the written language &#8212; the rules &#8212; to which they have bargained to agreement, and which they will follow in conduct of all their dealings together. And in drug testing procedures in the CBA, it is not at all uncommon for there to be specific language to the effect that if the procedure is not followed exactly, and to the letter, the result will be void.</p>
<p>There is also a reason why the panel of arbitrators agreed to have a ruling issued without an explanatory written opinion.  At least one of the parties &#8212; and I think we all know which one &#8212; knew that they had a seriously flawed case, but could not or would not want this exposed with language issued by the neutral arbitrator that could hurt them in future cases, or in litigation.</p>
<p>And as far as any appeals go, the chances of an appeal by MLB being upheld by the courts is slim to none.  Arbitrators&#8217; rulings are generally not overturned unless the arbitrator blantantly ignored the parties CBA, or if his ruling was in reckless violation of public policy and would have harmed the public in some significant way.  Certainly not the case here.  </p>
<p>Only one disagreement with the article.  Rules governing drug testing, since they affect the livelihood of the employee (resulting in suspension or discharge) are held to the highest standard, not lower than &#8220;beyond a reasonable doubt.&#8221;  What seems to be a &#8220;technicality&#8221; will cast doubt on the test result and nullify it.  And that&#8217;s what happened here.</p>
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		<title>By: foreverchipper10</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-264217</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[foreverchipper10]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 18:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-264217</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I couldn&#039;t agree more. That is why we have due process and protocol. If you found a bloody knife in someone&#039;s apartment without a proper search warrant, poof, that is no longer evidence. Follow the rules and it all works out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more. That is why we have due process and protocol. If you found a bloody knife in someone&#8217;s apartment without a proper search warrant, poof, that is no longer evidence. Follow the rules and it all works out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: rjltj55</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-2/#comment-264125</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rjltj55]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 18:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-264125</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nowhere did I say someones &quot;opinion&quot; was wrong. What I said was, as a scientist, the test result fails to exist, for all intents and purposes, once the validity of the sample was mishandled.

I freely admit that he may have used. All I&#039;m saying is, the sample that came back positive is no good. They should have tested him again, and continued to test him, until the collection procedure that was laid out was appropriately followed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nowhere did I say someones &#8220;opinion&#8221; was wrong. What I said was, as a scientist, the test result fails to exist, for all intents and purposes, once the validity of the sample was mishandled.</p>
<p>I freely admit that he may have used. All I&#8217;m saying is, the sample that came back positive is no good. They should have tested him again, and continued to test him, until the collection procedure that was laid out was appropriately followed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gamera the Brave</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-264054</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gamera the Brave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 17:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-264054</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, and never had the pleasure of playing Dungeons and Dragons - although I was certainly aware of it in my youth, as the bookstore I worked at during my college years had a LOT of D&amp;D books.  I just never saw the appeal of role-playing games...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and never had the pleasure of playing Dungeons and Dragons &#8211; although I was certainly aware of it in my youth, as the bookstore I worked at during my college years had a LOT of D&amp;D books.  I just never saw the appeal of role-playing games&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gamera the Brave</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-264048</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gamera the Brave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 17:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-264048</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[protius,
my rather randomly selected handle refers to a 250-foot-tall, flying, saber-toothed, fire-breathing turtle, made famous by a Japanese movie studio NOT called Toho.  Who kicks ass and can do gymnastics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>protius,<br />
my rather randomly selected handle refers to a 250-foot-tall, flying, saber-toothed, fire-breathing turtle, made famous by a Japanese movie studio NOT called Toho.  Who kicks ass and can do gymnastics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: acdc363</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-3/#comment-263805</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[acdc363]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263805</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So this dude let a jar of piss sit in his fridge for two days? Nasty! Imagine reaching around that thing to get to the milk.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So this dude let a jar of piss sit in his fridge for two days? Nasty! Imagine reaching around that thing to get to the milk.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sailorjoe</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-3/#comment-263739</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sailorjoe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263739</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dondada10 they&#039;re not saying that he tampered with a sample, the whole argument is that the integrity was breached on it as a whole, therefore who&#039;s to say the courier didn&#039;t tamper with it to a.) clean it if it was dirty, or b.) tamper with it negatively if he just simply isn&#039;t a brewers/Braun fan? That&#039;s the reason why it was so detrimental to the testing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dondada10 they&#8217;re not saying that he tampered with a sample, the whole argument is that the integrity was breached on it as a whole, therefore who&#8217;s to say the courier didn&#8217;t tamper with it to a.) clean it if it was dirty, or b.) tamper with it negatively if he just simply isn&#8217;t a brewers/Braun fan? That&#8217;s the reason why it was so detrimental to the testing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: braunliesandcheats</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-3/#comment-263733</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[braunliesandcheats]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263733</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Early on Braun said the facts would prove him innocent....I guess he knew that the sample taker did not follow procedures!  This is BS...Braun is obviously a cheater and liar!  Anyone with any common sense can see this unless you are blinded and then you also must believe OJ is innocent! Braun is NOT guilty due to a technicality.  This DOES not mean he is innocent.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Early on Braun said the facts would prove him innocent&#8230;.I guess he knew that the sample taker did not follow procedures!  This is BS&#8230;Braun is obviously a cheater and liar!  Anyone with any common sense can see this unless you are blinded and then you also must believe OJ is innocent! Braun is NOT guilty due to a technicality.  This DOES not mean he is innocent.</p>
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		<title>By: JBerardi</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-3/#comment-263716</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JBerardi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263716</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;Anyone who says otherwise is more interested in assumptions and the casting of aspersions than they are in a rigorous and legitimate drug testing regime.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

This is why no one like lawyers, Craig. Everyone smells blood in the water and then you guys have to come in and stubbornly insist that we &lt;i&gt;actually follow&lt;/i&gt; the rules that we&#039;ve all agreed upon. It&#039;s a real bummer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Anyone who says otherwise is more interested in assumptions and the casting of aspersions than they are in a rigorous and legitimate drug testing regime.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>This is why no one like lawyers, Craig. Everyone smells blood in the water and then you guys have to come in and stubbornly insist that we <i>actually follow</i> the rules that we&#8217;ve all agreed upon. It&#8217;s a real bummer.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: largebill</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-2/#comment-263712</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[largebill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 11:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263712</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[rjltj55,

You were doing alright until you stated &quot;Sorry, Braun haters . . .&quot; It is perfectly reasonable to have a different opinion about this situation without hating the man. There&#039;s no need to ascribe motives to others. Why do people do that? For the record I like Braun as a player. I root for an American League team so I don&#039;t have any real interest in seeing him suspended. However, it is possible to still have a different opinion on the issue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rjltj55,</p>
<p>You were doing alright until you stated &#8220;Sorry, Braun haters . . .&#8221; It is perfectly reasonable to have a different opinion about this situation without hating the man. There&#8217;s no need to ascribe motives to others. Why do people do that? For the record I like Braun as a player. I root for an American League team so I don&#8217;t have any real interest in seeing him suspended. However, it is possible to still have a different opinion on the issue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: protius</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-263703</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[protius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263703</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is too easy, are you still going on about your FedEx comment? Listen, I didn’t write it, you wrote it. I just teased you a little because it sounds so dorky. What’s the matter with you, can’t you take a little good natured kidding? 

The bottom line is: You wrote it chump, so wear it like a man and stop whining like a little girl. 

And what’s with the ad hominem attack? Are you getting frustrated? Gee, things must be tough at Walmart these days, even the cashiers are getting testy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is too easy, are you still going on about your FedEx comment? Listen, I didn’t write it, you wrote it. I just teased you a little because it sounds so dorky. What’s the matter with you, can’t you take a little good natured kidding? </p>
<p>The bottom line is: You wrote it chump, so wear it like a man and stop whining like a little girl. </p>
<p>And what’s with the ad hominem attack? Are you getting frustrated? Gee, things must be tough at Walmart these days, even the cashiers are getting testy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: txnative61</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-3/#comment-263702</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[txnative61]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Again, in agreement this time---Technicality, Schmecknicality--if the Ump says safe, he&#039;s safe---on with the game.  BASEBALL, remember???  Trial by press, ye&#039;re outta here!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, in agreement this time&#8212;Technicality, Schmecknicality&#8211;if the Ump says safe, he&#8217;s safe&#8212;on with the game.  BASEBALL, remember???  Trial by press, ye&#8217;re outta here!!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: protius</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-263701</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[protius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263701</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, if you say so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, if you say so.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: cur68</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-263699</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cur68]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263699</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah, never mind that idiot protius, Gamera. He&#039;s some sort of insignificant dolt with a persecution complex. Probably best to just ignore him from here out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, never mind that idiot protius, Gamera. He&#8217;s some sort of insignificant dolt with a persecution complex. Probably best to just ignore him from here out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: protius</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-263693</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[protius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 08:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gamera the Brave, is that a Dungeons and Dragons name? So, what powers do you have? Can you conquer Utley the Humdinger?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gamera the Brave, is that a Dungeons and Dragons name? So, what powers do you have? Can you conquer Utley the Humdinger?</p>
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		<title>By: shzastl</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-3/#comment-263680</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[shzastl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 06:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Craig, the main flaw in your reasoning is that there is a greater need for such checks and balances in the criminal law context because police have an incentive to cut corners to get a conviction. Here, a collector performing tests for which the vast majority of results will (presumably) be negative has no comparable motive. Indeed, as to the league MVP, if anything he&#039;d have incentive to make sure his employer&#039;s golden boy does NOT test positive, so as to avoid a scandal. 

I would also note that even the 24 hour Fedex locations do not make any shipments after 4-5 pm saturday. So the collector can drop off the sample at Fedex on saturday night, where it will sit at room temperature until it is shipped monday. Or he can keep it in a &#039;cool secure place&#039; per p.39 of the testing protocol (i.e., the collector&#039;s fridge), and then deliver it to fedex monday morning. Which presents a greater risk of contamination? If the cup remains seales in the collector&#039;s fridge, with Braun&#039;s signature on the seal, and the collector testifies that he maintained it in a secure, cool place for the weekend, what&#039;s the problem?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig, the main flaw in your reasoning is that there is a greater need for such checks and balances in the criminal law context because police have an incentive to cut corners to get a conviction. Here, a collector performing tests for which the vast majority of results will (presumably) be negative has no comparable motive. Indeed, as to the league MVP, if anything he&#8217;d have incentive to make sure his employer&#8217;s golden boy does NOT test positive, so as to avoid a scandal. </p>
<p>I would also note that even the 24 hour Fedex locations do not make any shipments after 4-5 pm saturday. So the collector can drop off the sample at Fedex on saturday night, where it will sit at room temperature until it is shipped monday. Or he can keep it in a &#8216;cool secure place&#8217; per p.39 of the testing protocol (i.e., the collector&#8217;s fridge), and then deliver it to fedex monday morning. Which presents a greater risk of contamination? If the cup remains seales in the collector&#8217;s fridge, with Braun&#8217;s signature on the seal, and the collector testifies that he maintained it in a secure, cool place for the weekend, what&#8217;s the problem?</p>
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		<title>By: hijackthemic</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-263678</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hijackthemic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 06:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In case you hadn&#039;t noticed, people have a lot of neuroses that can cause them to scream at the TV or the internet about stuff that happens on earth that doesn&#039;t involve them in any way, and quite possibly is about something inconsequential like grown men who play games for a living. It&#039;s not the reasonable, thinking-it-through parts of their brains that are deciding to do this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In case you hadn&#8217;t noticed, people have a lot of neuroses that can cause them to scream at the TV or the internet about stuff that happens on earth that doesn&#8217;t involve them in any way, and quite possibly is about something inconsequential like grown men who play games for a living. It&#8217;s not the reasonable, thinking-it-through parts of their brains that are deciding to do this.</p>
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		<title>By: hijackthemic</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-3/#comment-263677</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hijackthemic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 06:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When they created the testing policy why did the MLB agree that tests mishandled in this way should be considered invalid, if they didn&#039;t think that tests mishandled in this way are possibly invalid?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When they created the testing policy why did the MLB agree that tests mishandled in this way should be considered invalid, if they didn&#8217;t think that tests mishandled in this way are possibly invalid?</p>
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		<title>By: ningenito78</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-3/#comment-263661</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ningenito78]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263661</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How the hell exactly can you argue that this isn&#039;t a technicality. The fact he got caught doing something wrong but won&#039;t be punished because somebody fudged the process is the definition of a friggin technicality. Stop being an apologist for the sport. The MVP got caught cheating an it&#039;s just another shade of purple on the black eye baseball already has. Deal with it]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How the hell exactly can you argue that this isn&#8217;t a technicality. The fact he got caught doing something wrong but won&#8217;t be punished because somebody fudged the process is the definition of a friggin technicality. Stop being an apologist for the sport. The MVP got caught cheating an it&#8217;s just another shade of purple on the black eye baseball already has. Deal with it</p>
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		<title>By: Gamera the Brave</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-263658</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gamera the Brave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263658</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@protius,
Boy, you sure showed cur68!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@protius,<br />
Boy, you sure showed cur68!</p>
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		<title>By: rubbernilly</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-3/#comment-263647</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rubbernilly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 04:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263647</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let&#039;s try this again... see if the comment sticks this time.

Nothing like starting out with a Straw Man Fallacy:
&quot;In almost all cases, the people who say that someone “got off on a technicality” or took advantage of a “loophole” really mean “I think the SOB was guilty and because of that I don’t care if the proper safeguards and protocols were followed!”  It’s a ridiculous stance.&quot;

So good of you to interpret what people mean so... generally.

Whether or not someone got off on a technicality is a separate thing from believing they&#039;re guilty or not. A &quot;technicality&quot; normally deals with the process around a case, and not the substance... like how evidence was handled, or documentation prepared, or was a form filled out properly and filed in a timely way.

Braun didn&#039;t face a finding of guilt or innocence. Nothing was settled about the substance of the case besides that it couldn&#039;t continue.

In other words, a technicality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s try this again&#8230; see if the comment sticks this time.</p>
<p>Nothing like starting out with a Straw Man Fallacy:<br />
&#8220;In almost all cases, the people who say that someone “got off on a technicality” or took advantage of a “loophole” really mean “I think the SOB was guilty and because of that I don’t care if the proper safeguards and protocols were followed!”  It’s a ridiculous stance.&#8221;</p>
<p>So good of you to interpret what people mean so&#8230; generally.</p>
<p>Whether or not someone got off on a technicality is a separate thing from believing they&#8217;re guilty or not. A &#8220;technicality&#8221; normally deals with the process around a case, and not the substance&#8230; like how evidence was handled, or documentation prepared, or was a form filled out properly and filed in a timely way.</p>
<p>Braun didn&#8217;t face a finding of guilt or innocence. Nothing was settled about the substance of the case besides that it couldn&#8217;t continue.</p>
<p>In other words, a technicality.</p>
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		<title>By: bigleagues</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-263640</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bigleagues]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 04:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, this is a, we need - no demand - further info kind of story. I have been on the Braun-will-be-cleared bandwagon since the beginning of this. 

However, I still want to know how and why.

And now I will tell the following tale . . . phlebotomists are just as likely to be fine upstanding citizens as they are to have a screw loose. Now phlebotomists are not likely to be the one who is collecting and transporting a urine sample - but it is does happen on occasion. I know of this because one of my friends was a medtech in the SEALS. He finishes his duty, comes home and immediately dives into, shall we say, an alternative lifestyle. I heard a few stories that would change your political outlook for good. But basically he&#039;s so traumatized he can&#039;t sleep at night. So he used his own sleep aid.

Anyway, by day my friend is known as the best phlebotomist in the County - constantly being called to area hospitals to get veins that other staff phlebs failed to get. By night, he&#039;d inject &lt;i&gt;HIMSELF&lt;/i&gt; with sodium pentothal (that&#039;s an anesthesia often used for surgeries) - you don&#039;t get high from sodium pentothal - you go straight to passed out.

Anyway, come to find out, a large number of the people that worked for the lab he worked at (MAJOR national lab testing company, btw) are either drug addicts or borderline nutjobs.

Incidentally, &#039;Ryan&#039; eventually shook off a lot of the nightmares, but it took years. He is happily married with kids and does something totally legal and far away from the medical field.

All this is to say that this story about Braun&#039;s sample being mishandled does not surprise me. 

And this just dawned on me . . . here is where MLB is probably VERY nervous . . . the next time an MLB star gets caught legitimately - whats to stop that player from hiring an intermediary to track down the courier and negotiate a very handsome reward for raising doubt about &#039;chain of custody&#039;? Because afterall, isn&#039;t investing $100,000, or even $250,000 in sabotaging the testing worth avoiding a suspension and the embarrassment?

Manny? Ya taking notes?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, this is a, we need &#8211; no demand &#8211; further info kind of story. I have been on the Braun-will-be-cleared bandwagon since the beginning of this. </p>
<p>However, I still want to know how and why.</p>
<p>And now I will tell the following tale . . . phlebotomists are just as likely to be fine upstanding citizens as they are to have a screw loose. Now phlebotomists are not likely to be the one who is collecting and transporting a urine sample &#8211; but it is does happen on occasion. I know of this because one of my friends was a medtech in the SEALS. He finishes his duty, comes home and immediately dives into, shall we say, an alternative lifestyle. I heard a few stories that would change your political outlook for good. But basically he&#8217;s so traumatized he can&#8217;t sleep at night. So he used his own sleep aid.</p>
<p>Anyway, by day my friend is known as the best phlebotomist in the County &#8211; constantly being called to area hospitals to get veins that other staff phlebs failed to get. By night, he&#8217;d inject <i>HIMSELF</i> with sodium pentothal (that&#8217;s an anesthesia often used for surgeries) &#8211; you don&#8217;t get high from sodium pentothal &#8211; you go straight to passed out.</p>
<p>Anyway, come to find out, a large number of the people that worked for the lab he worked at (MAJOR national lab testing company, btw) are either drug addicts or borderline nutjobs.</p>
<p>Incidentally, &#8216;Ryan&#8217; eventually shook off a lot of the nightmares, but it took years. He is happily married with kids and does something totally legal and far away from the medical field.</p>
<p>All this is to say that this story about Braun&#8217;s sample being mishandled does not surprise me. </p>
<p>And this just dawned on me . . . here is where MLB is probably VERY nervous . . . the next time an MLB star gets caught legitimately &#8211; whats to stop that player from hiring an intermediary to track down the courier and negotiate a very handsome reward for raising doubt about &#8216;chain of custody&#8217;? Because afterall, isn&#8217;t investing $100,000, or even $250,000 in sabotaging the testing worth avoiding a suspension and the embarrassment?</p>
<p>Manny? Ya taking notes?</p>
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		<title>By: stex52</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-2/#comment-263632</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stex52]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 04:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263632</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The burden of the MLB in maintaining the integrity of the drug testing process is really not that different from the burden of the government in prosecutions. I don&#039;t know how many people out there had random drug tests as a condition of employment. I carry a TWIC badge and so I have to; I have had to at other professional jobs. It is a demeaning process. If you are a person with much sense of personal integrity, your willingness to do it rests on two parts. One, of course, is the knowledge you will be fired if you don&#039;t. But the other is that you can be made to believe that the chain of custody will protect you. And for me, it was more the second than the first. That is the least Braun should have expected from MLB, and he didn&#039;t get it. If what Drew says in the subsequent thread is true that doesn&#039;t change the fact that the protocol was sadly inadequate.

Besides, if the system had any integrity, why do we all think we know what Braun&#039;s numbers were? The system failed him; and he should walk. I hope he was clean. But we won&#039;t know one way or the other from that test. And that is as should be.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The burden of the MLB in maintaining the integrity of the drug testing process is really not that different from the burden of the government in prosecutions. I don&#8217;t know how many people out there had random drug tests as a condition of employment. I carry a TWIC badge and so I have to; I have had to at other professional jobs. It is a demeaning process. If you are a person with much sense of personal integrity, your willingness to do it rests on two parts. One, of course, is the knowledge you will be fired if you don&#8217;t. But the other is that you can be made to believe that the chain of custody will protect you. And for me, it was more the second than the first. That is the least Braun should have expected from MLB, and he didn&#8217;t get it. If what Drew says in the subsequent thread is true that doesn&#8217;t change the fact that the protocol was sadly inadequate.</p>
<p>Besides, if the system had any integrity, why do we all think we know what Braun&#8217;s numbers were? The system failed him; and he should walk. I hope he was clean. But we won&#8217;t know one way or the other from that test. And that is as should be.</p>
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		<title>By: protius</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-1/#comment-263629</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[protius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 04:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263629</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@protius blah blah blah, score snobbery points, blah blah blah. I was handling my……., blah blah blah, had to go to Australia, blah blah blah concerned husband blah blah blah. Retired archaeologist blah blah blah, learned up blah blah blah. Gator went to Fordham ha ha ha, denigrate others blah blah blah, prove it blah blah blah, not so sure.

Dear Urkel yada yada yada, many many words, yada yada yada you still don’t get the point yada yada yada, you can’t take a joke yada yada yada, I went to Columbia, yada yada yada, a real institute of higher learning, yada yada yada. Fordham yada yada yada, that’s a real joke.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@protius blah blah blah, score snobbery points, blah blah blah. I was handling my……., blah blah blah, had to go to Australia, blah blah blah concerned husband blah blah blah. Retired archaeologist blah blah blah, learned up blah blah blah. Gator went to Fordham ha ha ha, denigrate others blah blah blah, prove it blah blah blah, not so sure.</p>
<p>Dear Urkel yada yada yada, many many words, yada yada yada you still don’t get the point yada yada yada, you can’t take a joke yada yada yada, I went to Columbia, yada yada yada, a real institute of higher learning, yada yada yada. Fordham yada yada yada, that’s a real joke.</p>
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		<title>By: rjltj55</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/23/ryan-braun-got-off-on-a-technicality-bull/comment-page-2/#comment-263614</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rjltj55]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 03:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=115254#comment-263614</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Outstanding article. I work in the laboratory testing field (granted, not anti-doping testing), but the chain of custody procedures are similar.  I deal withs samples on a daily basis where just a difference of 2 degrees between what the sample is supposed to be and what it actually is, can throw the reagents in the testing kit off, and completely throw the machine we use to analyze samples out of whack.  

The real question is, how would MLB handle a compromised sample that showed up on the test as negative. Does anyone really believe they would go, &quot;Well, the sample wasn&#039;t handled properly, but it turned out negative. I guess it&#039;s negative!&quot;. I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that the player would have to be re-tested. The original result would be considered null and void.

So why do people expect anything different from a positive test. When the sample was mishandled, whatever result came from that, at least in my mind (and probably anyone with any sort of training in the sciences) is that IT IS NULL AND VOID. The result doesn&#039;t exist because it came from a compromised sample.  

Sorry Braun haters. The positive test everyone is referring to failed to exist (for all intents and purposes) the moment it was mishandled.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Outstanding article. I work in the laboratory testing field (granted, not anti-doping testing), but the chain of custody procedures are similar.  I deal withs samples on a daily basis where just a difference of 2 degrees between what the sample is supposed to be and what it actually is, can throw the reagents in the testing kit off, and completely throw the machine we use to analyze samples out of whack.  </p>
<p>The real question is, how would MLB handle a compromised sample that showed up on the test as negative. Does anyone really believe they would go, &#8220;Well, the sample wasn&#8217;t handled properly, but it turned out negative. I guess it&#8217;s negative!&#8221;. I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that the player would have to be re-tested. The original result would be considered null and void.</p>
<p>So why do people expect anything different from a positive test. When the sample was mishandled, whatever result came from that, at least in my mind (and probably anyone with any sort of training in the sciences) is that IT IS NULL AND VOID. The result doesn&#8217;t exist because it came from a compromised sample.  </p>
<p>Sorry Braun haters. The positive test everyone is referring to failed to exist (for all intents and purposes) the moment it was mishandled.</p>
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