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	<title>Comments on: The Ryan Braun saga tells us something about the culture of baseball</title>
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	<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/</link>
	<description>Baseball. Baseball. And then a bit more baseball.</description>
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		<title>By: cur68</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-266089</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cur68]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Feb 2012 00:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-266089</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Stuckonwords: All I&#039;m trying to say is that Lupica will be with you always if you read it: I&#039;m not trying to influence your opinion. The intent was humorous.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Stuckonwords: All I&#8217;m trying to say is that Lupica will be with you always if you read it: I&#8217;m not trying to influence your opinion. The intent was humorous.</p>
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		<title>By: bigharold</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265976</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bigharold]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265976</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK...

&quot;However, you don’t say why extending a person’s abilities beyond their natural boundaries is wrong.&quot;

Because unlike training harder, better, longer or more intelligently or maximizing potential through better nutrition, diet and lifestyle using drugs to make one unnaturally stronger or faster is considered cheating. Clearly you don&#039;t see it that way but it is because as a culture, world wide, that is the way it is viewed.  If for no other reason than it has the very real ability to turn sports into a competition not so much between athletes but chemist.  Because, there is the very real harm of over use and abuse. And, because steroid use is illegal in this country as well as elsewhere.  Pierce’s sanctimonious libertarian BS aside this is about logic and pragmatism. 

&quot;Because the moral outrage against PEDs in baseball isn’t because “OMG the players are better than they were before!” (which is asinine), it’s “OMG THEY ARE TAKING ILLEGAL DRUGS!!??!?!?!”. So why are some types of drugs, whether legal or not okay, but PEDs are a big NoNo?&quot;

Because that is the LAW.  As a society or culture we find certain things are permissible and certain things aren&#039;t.  And, not every member of that society will agree as id the nature of all cultures.  For instance, in most cases driving is permissible, .. drinking is permissible, .. drinking and driving is not.  While mot people would agree there are people that think that is too Intrusive.  In general it&#039;s a fallacy to say if one is and the other is why not the two together.  Also pointing to certain legal drugs and questioning the wisdom of how other drugs are regulated or prohibited is a specious argument at best.  Pointing to one allowable thing and saying it&#039;s no worse than something else, which to a large degree is a matter of your opinion in this case, and using it as a justification  to permit something else carries little weight. Moreover, you are not providing full context.  The things you refer to like booze, cigarettes and caffeine were introduced into the culture hundreds of years before it was obvious the extent of the detrimental effects. They are intertwined to the point that it&#039;s almost impossible prohibit them at this point as Prohibition showed.  

&quot;Really, we’re going to play the kid angle?&quot;

Really, ..are you going to ignore it?  I neither need nor do I want professional athletes or entertainers to be role models for my children.  I&#039;ve raised two children through college to their mid 20s and did just fine.  I don&#039;t abdicate my responsibility in any way and MOST parents will tell you the same.  But, as a parent of two grown children and a 9 year old boy I not stupid or naive enough to dismiss the influence popular culture has either.  More to the point, .. if you accept a system whereby PED use is not only accepted but the norm where do you cut it off?  That&#039;s a very real pertinent question that you ignore.  At what point do you tell a kid you have to wait?  And, how do you enforce it since you threw in the towel with supposedly intelligent grown men who were willing to risk their livelihood to game them system? How do you get teenagers to make reasonable choices?  

This is not, at least not from my point, about moral outrage.  Nor should Pierce&#039;s sanctimoniousness libertarian BS have any place.  It&#039;s about logic reason and pragmatism.  And, the Sandy Koufax thing still has nothing to do with PEDs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;However, you don’t say why extending a person’s abilities beyond their natural boundaries is wrong.&#8221;</p>
<p>Because unlike training harder, better, longer or more intelligently or maximizing potential through better nutrition, diet and lifestyle using drugs to make one unnaturally stronger or faster is considered cheating. Clearly you don&#8217;t see it that way but it is because as a culture, world wide, that is the way it is viewed.  If for no other reason than it has the very real ability to turn sports into a competition not so much between athletes but chemist.  Because, there is the very real harm of over use and abuse. And, because steroid use is illegal in this country as well as elsewhere.  Pierce’s sanctimonious libertarian BS aside this is about logic and pragmatism. </p>
<p>&#8220;Because the moral outrage against PEDs in baseball isn’t because “OMG the players are better than they were before!” (which is asinine), it’s “OMG THEY ARE TAKING ILLEGAL DRUGS!!??!?!?!”. So why are some types of drugs, whether legal or not okay, but PEDs are a big NoNo?&#8221;</p>
<p>Because that is the LAW.  As a society or culture we find certain things are permissible and certain things aren&#8217;t.  And, not every member of that society will agree as id the nature of all cultures.  For instance, in most cases driving is permissible, .. drinking is permissible, .. drinking and driving is not.  While mot people would agree there are people that think that is too Intrusive.  In general it&#8217;s a fallacy to say if one is and the other is why not the two together.  Also pointing to certain legal drugs and questioning the wisdom of how other drugs are regulated or prohibited is a specious argument at best.  Pointing to one allowable thing and saying it&#8217;s no worse than something else, which to a large degree is a matter of your opinion in this case, and using it as a justification  to permit something else carries little weight. Moreover, you are not providing full context.  The things you refer to like booze, cigarettes and caffeine were introduced into the culture hundreds of years before it was obvious the extent of the detrimental effects. They are intertwined to the point that it&#8217;s almost impossible prohibit them at this point as Prohibition showed.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Really, we’re going to play the kid angle?&#8221;</p>
<p>Really, ..are you going to ignore it?  I neither need nor do I want professional athletes or entertainers to be role models for my children.  I&#8217;ve raised two children through college to their mid 20s and did just fine.  I don&#8217;t abdicate my responsibility in any way and MOST parents will tell you the same.  But, as a parent of two grown children and a 9 year old boy I not stupid or naive enough to dismiss the influence popular culture has either.  More to the point, .. if you accept a system whereby PED use is not only accepted but the norm where do you cut it off?  That&#8217;s a very real pertinent question that you ignore.  At what point do you tell a kid you have to wait?  And, how do you enforce it since you threw in the towel with supposedly intelligent grown men who were willing to risk their livelihood to game them system? How do you get teenagers to make reasonable choices?  </p>
<p>This is not, at least not from my point, about moral outrage.  Nor should Pierce&#8217;s sanctimoniousness libertarian BS have any place.  It&#8217;s about logic reason and pragmatism.  And, the Sandy Koufax thing still has nothing to do with PEDs.</p>
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		<title>By: cur68</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265833</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cur68]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 19:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Be that as it may, Viva, it doesn&#039;t diminish that the people with the facts came to a certain conclusion. If the other 2 arbitrators cancel each other out due to bias, then the impartial voter is the best guage of the evidence. He saw Braun&#039;s test as flawed. If anything, this strengthens Braun&#039;s defence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be that as it may, Viva, it doesn&#8217;t diminish that the people with the facts came to a certain conclusion. If the other 2 arbitrators cancel each other out due to bias, then the impartial voter is the best guage of the evidence. He saw Braun&#8217;s test as flawed. If anything, this strengthens Braun&#8217;s defence.</p>
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		<title>By: sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265748</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265748</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, my example was no analogous, but I think the fact remains that we throw the baby out with the bathwater far too often in cases like these. I think we judges and appeals courts and a supreme court for a reason...to apply some semblance of reason to instances similar to this. In MLB arbitration and US justice, we should at least allow for the possibility that a fractured procedure could still secure credible evidence without violating anyone&#039;s civil rights.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, my example was no analogous, but I think the fact remains that we throw the baby out with the bathwater far too often in cases like these. I think we judges and appeals courts and a supreme court for a reason&#8230;to apply some semblance of reason to instances similar to this. In MLB arbitration and US justice, we should at least allow for the possibility that a fractured procedure could still secure credible evidence without violating anyone&#8217;s civil rights.</p>
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		<title>By: jonirocit</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265684</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonirocit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265684</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would be more inclined to believe mr Braun if he would have flat out challenged the test but he didn&#039;t . He challenged the process and is trying to make us believe that someone is out to get him . Maybe it&#039;s the government , free masons ? CIA ? Who framed Ryan Braun?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be more inclined to believe mr Braun if he would have flat out challenged the test but he didn&#8217;t . He challenged the process and is trying to make us believe that someone is out to get him . Maybe it&#8217;s the government , free masons ? CIA ? Who framed Ryan Braun?</p>
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		<title>By: gendisarray</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265653</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gendisarray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 15:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265653</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The same could stand to be applied in the real world. While I am completely supportive of an arrestee being read his Miranda rights, I think the consequences of not doing so can be excessive. If the arrestee was otherwise treated in a lawful manner and not asked to confess/not denied access to an attorney, why should a case be thrown out simply because procedure was not followed?&quot;

It doesn&#039;t get thrown out - that&#039;s not how Miranda warnings work.  Failing to read Miranda warnings only impacts the prosecution&#039;s ability to use self-incriminating statements made by a defendant against him at trial.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The same could stand to be applied in the real world. While I am completely supportive of an arrestee being read his Miranda rights, I think the consequences of not doing so can be excessive. If the arrestee was otherwise treated in a lawful manner and not asked to confess/not denied access to an attorney, why should a case be thrown out simply because procedure was not followed?&#8221;</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t get thrown out &#8211; that&#8217;s not how Miranda warnings work.  Failing to read Miranda warnings only impacts the prosecution&#8217;s ability to use self-incriminating statements made by a defendant against him at trial.</p>
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		<title>By: vivabear</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265608</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vivabear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 14:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265608</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[cur - another way to say it would be that the vote was 1-0 to acquit. Since MLB &amp; MLBPA each have a rep on the panel, they&#039;re votes basically don&#039;t count. That leaves the decision up to one person. Maybe they&#039;ll take a look at whether or not they want to change this going forward too. That&#039;s a lot of power to give to one arbitrator.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cur &#8211; another way to say it would be that the vote was 1-0 to acquit. Since MLB &amp; MLBPA each have a rep on the panel, they&#8217;re votes basically don&#8217;t count. That leaves the decision up to one person. Maybe they&#8217;ll take a look at whether or not they want to change this going forward too. That&#8217;s a lot of power to give to one arbitrator.</p>
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		<title>By: purnellmeagrejr</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265597</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[purnellmeagrejr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 14:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[comparisons to Mike Lupica would seem to be neeedlessly lowering the bar.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>comparisons to Mike Lupica would seem to be neeedlessly lowering the bar.</p>
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		<title>By: phillyphreak</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265583</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[phillyphreak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 13:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265583</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Polemicist.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Polemicist.</p>
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		<title>By: Francisco (FC)</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265581</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Francisco (FC)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 13:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265581</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;If you were to tune in to NBC you would see a scratchy video feed, a bit muddled, but you would hear a pair of voices in the background:

&quot;Is it ready yet?&quot;

&quot;Almost. You know Craig, NBC won&#039;t be happy you&#039;re taking over the signal.&quot;

&quot;Everyone must be properly aware of this situation. It&#039;s important for Baseball!&quot;

&quot;Haven&#039;t you been controversial enough with this topic?&quot;

&quot;The truth is only controversial if you disagree with it!&quot;

The screen now changes to show a man wearing a bathrobe, smoking a bubble pipe. The background isn&#039;t readily distinguishable.

&quot;You&#039;re live Craig!&quot;

&quot;Greetings viewers. I have interrupted this signal because the bickering has become intolerably long. It seems I have not written enough over the past week explaining to you why standard procedures must be followed in our country. They are our only guarantee that Authority can&#039;t abuse its power. Simply put, we have rules in place that are followed to determine properly beyond any reasonable doubt the occurrence of an event. We here at HBT are serious in our craft and do not easily partake in rumor or innuendo.&quot;

The figure adjusts his collar one more time before finishing his speech:

&quot;So, for the last time: Chipper Jones is not in the Worst Shape of His Life! That photo was taken when the wind was blowing! He&#039;d only be fat from one side if that were true!&quot;&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If you were to tune in to NBC you would see a scratchy video feed, a bit muddled, but you would hear a pair of voices in the background:</p>
<p>&#8220;Is it ready yet?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Almost. You know Craig, NBC won&#8217;t be happy you&#8217;re taking over the signal.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Everyone must be properly aware of this situation. It&#8217;s important for Baseball!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Haven&#8217;t you been controversial enough with this topic?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The truth is only controversial if you disagree with it!&#8221;</p>
<p>The screen now changes to show a man wearing a bathrobe, smoking a bubble pipe. The background isn&#8217;t readily distinguishable.</p>
<p>&#8220;You&#8217;re live Craig!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Greetings viewers. I have interrupted this signal because the bickering has become intolerably long. It seems I have not written enough over the past week explaining to you why standard procedures must be followed in our country. They are our only guarantee that Authority can&#8217;t abuse its power. Simply put, we have rules in place that are followed to determine properly beyond any reasonable doubt the occurrence of an event. We here at HBT are serious in our craft and do not easily partake in rumor or innuendo.&#8221;</p>
<p>The figure adjusts his collar one more time before finishing his speech:</p>
<p>&#8220;So, for the last time: Chipper Jones is not in the Worst Shape of His Life! That photo was taken when the wind was blowing! He&#8217;d only be fat from one side if that were true!&#8221;</i></p>
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		<title>By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265579</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 12:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265579</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t recommend it as a piece of intelligent journalism, or even well thought out argument. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

That pretty much describes all of Lupica&#039;s articles over the years...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I don’t recommend it as a piece of intelligent journalism, or even well thought out argument. </p></blockquote>
<p>That pretty much describes all of Lupica&#8217;s articles over the years&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bigleagues</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265575</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bigleagues]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 08:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Contrary to your point, corporations who require drug testing are limiting their talent pool, often to their own detriment.

Any reasonable person will concede that there are certain professions/occupations where not only the employer should have some requirement regarding drug taking, but so would the customers. For example, bus drivers, train operators, pilots, industrial equipment operators, etc . . .

But, in the name of lower insurance premiums and some misguided sense of corporate responsibility this notion of drug screening and random testing has spread into occupations where such intrusiveness is patently absurd (Walmart for example).

Not everyone who uses a drug is an addict - in fact, most aren&#039;t. But the hypocrisy reaches the level of insanity when one places alcohol alongside cannabis. Alcohol kills, maims, and retards. No one has ever OD&#039;ed on Cannabis - its impossible. But more to the point, in an average day you will encounter someone stoned . . . and you&#039;ll never know they were stoned. The same can never be said for alcohol. Yes, there are people who do not do stoned well. And no, no one should be operating heavy machinery or piloting airplanes while stoned . . . BUT a stoned Walmart person might just like their job a little better and not be such a dick.

Bottom line, this country is currently incapable of having a SANE debate on so-called illicit drugs because knee-jerk squares, pious politicians and the religious right zealots have completely heisted the discussion by feeding the public a steady diet of propaganda and hysteria. Some would frame such transparent foolishness as &#039;responsible drug policy&#039;. I, on the other hand, view it as mind control. 

Call me a polemicist.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contrary to your point, corporations who require drug testing are limiting their talent pool, often to their own detriment.</p>
<p>Any reasonable person will concede that there are certain professions/occupations where not only the employer should have some requirement regarding drug taking, but so would the customers. For example, bus drivers, train operators, pilots, industrial equipment operators, etc . . .</p>
<p>But, in the name of lower insurance premiums and some misguided sense of corporate responsibility this notion of drug screening and random testing has spread into occupations where such intrusiveness is patently absurd (Walmart for example).</p>
<p>Not everyone who uses a drug is an addict &#8211; in fact, most aren&#8217;t. But the hypocrisy reaches the level of insanity when one places alcohol alongside cannabis. Alcohol kills, maims, and retards. No one has ever OD&#8217;ed on Cannabis &#8211; its impossible. But more to the point, in an average day you will encounter someone stoned . . . and you&#8217;ll never know they were stoned. The same can never be said for alcohol. Yes, there are people who do not do stoned well. And no, no one should be operating heavy machinery or piloting airplanes while stoned . . . BUT a stoned Walmart person might just like their job a little better and not be such a dick.</p>
<p>Bottom line, this country is currently incapable of having a SANE debate on so-called illicit drugs because knee-jerk squares, pious politicians and the religious right zealots have completely heisted the discussion by feeding the public a steady diet of propaganda and hysteria. Some would frame such transparent foolishness as &#8216;responsible drug policy&#8217;. I, on the other hand, view it as mind control. </p>
<p>Call me a polemicist.</p>
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		<title>By: bigleagues</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265574</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bigleagues]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 07:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Once upon a time Charles Pierce was a sportswriter for the once-hallowed sportswriter nirvana known as The Boston Globe.

When The Globe hired Tony Massarotti, they basically signaled that they had thrown in the towel on respectability in favor of predictable irreverence. Those who have read Mazz for any amount of time can see his angle coming like a flat fastball.

Charles Pierce on the other hand &lt;i&gt;always&lt;/i&gt; makes you think. You may not always like what he is saying, but that was never the reason why he wrote. Guys like Mazz write to for the casual fan. Pierce doesn&#039;t.

However Pierce also had this little blog at Esquire where he wrote primarily about politics. Now this is a guy who see&#039;s the world like me: Sports &amp; Politics and everything else is just filler.

Except at the Esquire blog Pierce had a tendency to really air it out on subjects that got under his craw . . . enter Christine O&#039;Donnell&#039;s Delaware Senate campaign. I will excerpt this from commonwealthmag.org:

&lt;b&gt;
A source familiar with the (Globe&#039;s) grievance said it stems from a blog post Pierce wrote for Esquire following O’Donnell’s upset win in the Republican primary last year. In that piece, Pierce called O’Donnell “a sideshow freak,” “a crackpot,” and “a deadbeat” and insulted all those in Delaware who voted for her.

“She no more belongs in the Senate of the United States today than she did the day she was born,” Pierce wrote. “That 30,000-odd primates in Delaware thinks [sic] she belongs there is their problem. If enough people in Delaware come to think so, then she becomes our problem.”

At the end of the column, Pierce said: “Christine O&#039;Donnell&#039;s campaign is a successful exercise in angry, misfit masturbation, with as little to do with the deadly problems this country faces as some guy wanking in the balcony of a grindhouse has to do with Romeo and Juliet.”

According to the source, Globe officials found the column to be “intemperate and intolerant.” The source said Globe policy forbids writers from making insulting personal comments about candidates, even in another publication. &lt;/b&gt;

The Globe took exception to the Esquire piece and after disciplining him, and squabbling over the O&#039;Donnell blog post for nearly a year, the Globe FIRED Pierce this past Fall - for a piece that he wrote for another publication.

My patience and tolerance of Corporate censorship of individual voices expired a long time ago. I don&#039;t care that he&#039;s an employee, he was writing a for a separate publication on a separate subject. The Globe has become a company of spineless corporate weasels. 

What Pierce has to say about PED&#039;s is something that needs to be said. That he is saying it at Grantland where people may actually read it is all the more better. 

The fact is the hue and outcry over PED&#039;s is waaaaaaaaay overblown as is ANYTHING that Congress deems as a national crisis.

Pro athletes are by and large not like you and me. They have freakish talent in one form or another. 

I am an average-bad baseball player. I don&#039;t embarrass myself when I play, but I don&#039;t usually impress anyone either. I was taught by a great HS coach how to pitch and throw with deadly accuracy and its a skill that has never waned after a modest warm up. However, such accuracy has virtually no meaning when my fastball topped out at 78 MPH - and my fingers were not long enough to effectively throw a knuckleball (fun fact: short fingers also take MPH off your fastball).

Most, if not all, MLB players have what is referred to as &#039;fast-twitch&#039; muscles, which is just a cool way of saying that the wiring between their synapses and outer limbs is better than 99.5 of the population. I thought that was all bullshit until I became part of Luis Sojo&#039;s basketball posse one summer. Sojo, you will remember was not the model of physical fitness. 

That summer I was running 5-7 miles 5 days a week. I bawled all the time. I was quicker than 90% of the typical playground superstars you&#039;d match up against on any given court.

In fact, Luis Sojo could not beat me in a 40-yard dash, which is good because I was coming in at 6&#039; 198lbs and he was 5&#039;10&quot; and about 190lbs.

Luis Sojo, however had the quickest 1st step I had ever seen on a fat guy. His hands moved faster and his mind made athletic decisions just a hair quicker than the rest of us.

Luis Sojo could have taken PED&#039;s until pulled a Caminiti . . . and Luis may have hit a few more home runs and had a few more hits drop in, but he was never gonna be a superstar - even if he had a custom BALCO elixir. And Luis Sojo - who disliked the PED culture - would tell you that to this day.

If I on the other hand took PED&#039;s, I may have added a few MPH to my fastball, and despite having Ted Williams eagle-eye vision, I did not have his hand/eye coordination, and thus probably still wouldn&#039;t have been able to catch up to 95MPH fastballs with any consistent proficiency.

In other words, PED&#039;s enhance the skills and physical gifts that pro athletes already have, but the Luis Sojo&#039;s of this world are not turning into superstars just because they cycled some designer PED.

But, what&#039;s WAY left out of this never ending debate, is the fact that &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; PED&#039;s speed recovery and reduce the severity of injuries. 

And the way that the anti-PED crowd has hijacked the debate over the last decade, we may not see the yang to that ying for quite some time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once upon a time Charles Pierce was a sportswriter for the once-hallowed sportswriter nirvana known as The Boston Globe.</p>
<p>When The Globe hired Tony Massarotti, they basically signaled that they had thrown in the towel on respectability in favor of predictable irreverence. Those who have read Mazz for any amount of time can see his angle coming like a flat fastball.</p>
<p>Charles Pierce on the other hand <i>always</i> makes you think. You may not always like what he is saying, but that was never the reason why he wrote. Guys like Mazz write to for the casual fan. Pierce doesn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>However Pierce also had this little blog at Esquire where he wrote primarily about politics. Now this is a guy who see&#8217;s the world like me: Sports &amp; Politics and everything else is just filler.</p>
<p>Except at the Esquire blog Pierce had a tendency to really air it out on subjects that got under his craw . . . enter Christine O&#8217;Donnell&#8217;s Delaware Senate campaign. I will excerpt this from commonwealthmag.org:</p>
<p><b><br />
A source familiar with the (Globe&#8217;s) grievance said it stems from a blog post Pierce wrote for Esquire following O’Donnell’s upset win in the Republican primary last year. In that piece, Pierce called O’Donnell “a sideshow freak,” “a crackpot,” and “a deadbeat” and insulted all those in Delaware who voted for her.</p>
<p>“She no more belongs in the Senate of the United States today than she did the day she was born,” Pierce wrote. “That 30,000-odd primates in Delaware thinks [sic] she belongs there is their problem. If enough people in Delaware come to think so, then she becomes our problem.”</p>
<p>At the end of the column, Pierce said: “Christine O&#8217;Donnell&#8217;s campaign is a successful exercise in angry, misfit masturbation, with as little to do with the deadly problems this country faces as some guy wanking in the balcony of a grindhouse has to do with Romeo and Juliet.”</p>
<p>According to the source, Globe officials found the column to be “intemperate and intolerant.” The source said Globe policy forbids writers from making insulting personal comments about candidates, even in another publication. </b></p>
<p>The Globe took exception to the Esquire piece and after disciplining him, and squabbling over the O&#8217;Donnell blog post for nearly a year, the Globe FIRED Pierce this past Fall &#8211; for a piece that he wrote for another publication.</p>
<p>My patience and tolerance of Corporate censorship of individual voices expired a long time ago. I don&#8217;t care that he&#8217;s an employee, he was writing a for a separate publication on a separate subject. The Globe has become a company of spineless corporate weasels. </p>
<p>What Pierce has to say about PED&#8217;s is something that needs to be said. That he is saying it at Grantland where people may actually read it is all the more better. </p>
<p>The fact is the hue and outcry over PED&#8217;s is waaaaaaaaay overblown as is ANYTHING that Congress deems as a national crisis.</p>
<p>Pro athletes are by and large not like you and me. They have freakish talent in one form or another. </p>
<p>I am an average-bad baseball player. I don&#8217;t embarrass myself when I play, but I don&#8217;t usually impress anyone either. I was taught by a great HS coach how to pitch and throw with deadly accuracy and its a skill that has never waned after a modest warm up. However, such accuracy has virtually no meaning when my fastball topped out at 78 MPH &#8211; and my fingers were not long enough to effectively throw a knuckleball (fun fact: short fingers also take MPH off your fastball).</p>
<p>Most, if not all, MLB players have what is referred to as &#8216;fast-twitch&#8217; muscles, which is just a cool way of saying that the wiring between their synapses and outer limbs is better than 99.5 of the population. I thought that was all bullshit until I became part of Luis Sojo&#8217;s basketball posse one summer. Sojo, you will remember was not the model of physical fitness. </p>
<p>That summer I was running 5-7 miles 5 days a week. I bawled all the time. I was quicker than 90% of the typical playground superstars you&#8217;d match up against on any given court.</p>
<p>In fact, Luis Sojo could not beat me in a 40-yard dash, which is good because I was coming in at 6&#8242; 198lbs and he was 5&#8217;10&#8243; and about 190lbs.</p>
<p>Luis Sojo, however had the quickest 1st step I had ever seen on a fat guy. His hands moved faster and his mind made athletic decisions just a hair quicker than the rest of us.</p>
<p>Luis Sojo could have taken PED&#8217;s until pulled a Caminiti . . . and Luis may have hit a few more home runs and had a few more hits drop in, but he was never gonna be a superstar &#8211; even if he had a custom BALCO elixir. And Luis Sojo &#8211; who disliked the PED culture &#8211; would tell you that to this day.</p>
<p>If I on the other hand took PED&#8217;s, I may have added a few MPH to my fastball, and despite having Ted Williams eagle-eye vision, I did not have his hand/eye coordination, and thus probably still wouldn&#8217;t have been able to catch up to 95MPH fastballs with any consistent proficiency.</p>
<p>In other words, PED&#8217;s enhance the skills and physical gifts that pro athletes already have, but the Luis Sojo&#8217;s of this world are not turning into superstars just because they cycled some designer PED.</p>
<p>But, what&#8217;s WAY left out of this never ending debate, is the fact that <i>some</i> PED&#8217;s speed recovery and reduce the severity of injuries. </p>
<p>And the way that the anti-PED crowd has hijacked the debate over the last decade, we may not see the yang to that ying for quite some time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: cur68</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265573</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cur68]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 07:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265573</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The people in possession of the facts voted 2-1 to acquit, too. So there&#039;s that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The people in possession of the facts voted 2-1 to acquit, too. So there&#8217;s that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: stuckonwords</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265571</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stuckonwords]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 07:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265571</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cur68, I appreciate the link. Being completely upfront, however, I must say that I don&#039;t need any prodding to decide how I feel about the article. I&#039;m quite capable of deciding for myself what I think and feel for myself. I believe in input: take in the thoughts, facts, and opinions of others, and sort it out on my own. Lupica&#039;s words are not &quot;in [my] brain forever&quot;...they&#039;re added to the aggregate compilation of my thought process. I recognize and appreciate your opinion of the piece, but I will make my own determination. Again, I thank you for the link.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cur68, I appreciate the link. Being completely upfront, however, I must say that I don&#8217;t need any prodding to decide how I feel about the article. I&#8217;m quite capable of deciding for myself what I think and feel for myself. I believe in input: take in the thoughts, facts, and opinions of others, and sort it out on my own. Lupica&#8217;s words are not &#8220;in [my] brain forever&#8221;&#8230;they&#8217;re added to the aggregate compilation of my thought process. I recognize and appreciate your opinion of the piece, but I will make my own determination. Again, I thank you for the link.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: stuckonwords</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265570</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stuckonwords]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265570</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you can say for certain that the dismal abuse of the process left no possibility that the results were tainted, I would agree with you. You&#039;re using the &quot;eye&quot; test. But the law *must* include a process that has to be followed if you believe that imprisoning 10 innocent men is okay if we imprison 90 guilty ones. That&#039;s a huge argument, but America has the policy (albeit terribly abused) that one is &quot;innocent until proven guilty&quot; because it believes we must not ever, ever imprison someone who is guilty. We Americans wanted it that way. Does it happen? Absolutely not. As I mentioned earlier, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of men are being freed from prison on the basis of DNA tests that prove they were innocent, while they were imprisoned &quot;beyond reasonable doubt&quot;. That simply is not the kind of America I want to live in. We *must* uphold &quot;innocent until proven guilty&quot;, or we&#039;re failing miserably.

The process matters. If 900 out of 1000 times the person is guilty, I&#039;d rather have the 100 go free.  I guess that&#039;s a matter of opinion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you can say for certain that the dismal abuse of the process left no possibility that the results were tainted, I would agree with you. You&#8217;re using the &#8220;eye&#8221; test. But the law *must* include a process that has to be followed if you believe that imprisoning 10 innocent men is okay if we imprison 90 guilty ones. That&#8217;s a huge argument, but America has the policy (albeit terribly abused) that one is &#8220;innocent until proven guilty&#8221; because it believes we must not ever, ever imprison someone who is guilty. We Americans wanted it that way. Does it happen? Absolutely not. As I mentioned earlier, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of men are being freed from prison on the basis of DNA tests that prove they were innocent, while they were imprisoned &#8220;beyond reasonable doubt&#8221;. That simply is not the kind of America I want to live in. We *must* uphold &#8220;innocent until proven guilty&#8221;, or we&#8217;re failing miserably.</p>
<p>The process matters. If 900 out of 1000 times the person is guilty, I&#8217;d rather have the 100 go free.  I guess that&#8217;s a matter of opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: stuckonwords</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265569</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stuckonwords]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265569</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Innocence is not a vote. Fact is not an opinion. Despite the fact that millions and millions of people have a say does not mean that 99.999% of them have any actual knowledge or understanding of the events or circumstances. Innocence is a fact; if someone is innocent, it doesn&#039;t matter if you &quot;agree&quot; with it or not. He&#039;s innocent. Fact is not an opinion; if it is a fact, it doesn&#039;t matter if you &quot;agree&quot; with it or not. There are a handful of people who are privy to the facts, and we are not among them. Braun was acquitted. Despite your proclamation that he is not innocent, your opinion carries nothing which suggests you know any better than anyone else. It is what it is; an opinion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Innocence is not a vote. Fact is not an opinion. Despite the fact that millions and millions of people have a say does not mean that 99.999% of them have any actual knowledge or understanding of the events or circumstances. Innocence is a fact; if someone is innocent, it doesn&#8217;t matter if you &#8220;agree&#8221; with it or not. He&#8217;s innocent. Fact is not an opinion; if it is a fact, it doesn&#8217;t matter if you &#8220;agree&#8221; with it or not. There are a handful of people who are privy to the facts, and we are not among them. Braun was acquitted. Despite your proclamation that he is not innocent, your opinion carries nothing which suggests you know any better than anyone else. It is what it is; an opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: cur68</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265568</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cur68]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-acquited-exonerated-testosterone-test-article-1.1027851

I don&#039;t recommend it as a piece of intelligent journalism, or even well thought out argument. However, it is the direction the flag flies for the conspiracy theorists, jump to conclusionists, and those easily swayed by someone who can bullshit. Lupica manages to sum up every bad argument as a serious position with this one. Remember, if you read it, Lupica&#039;s words are in your brain &lt;i&gt;forever&lt;/i&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-acquited-exonerated-testosterone-test-article-1.1027851" rel="nofollow">http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-acquited-exonerated-testosterone-test-article-1.1027851</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t recommend it as a piece of intelligent journalism, or even well thought out argument. However, it is the direction the flag flies for the conspiracy theorists, jump to conclusionists, and those easily swayed by someone who can bullshit. Lupica manages to sum up every bad argument as a serious position with this one. Remember, if you read it, Lupica&#8217;s words are in your brain <i>forever</i>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: stuckonwords</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265566</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stuckonwords]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265566</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Viva...yes, Braun&#039;s comments would be biased toward whatever serves him best. But what if...just what if...he actually *was* innocent? Then all the &quot;interpretations&quot; of what he&#039;s saying and why he&#039;s saying it fall flat and go out the window. I&#039;ve suspected from the beginning that he must&#039;ve done something. But honestly, I&#039;m not *sure* he did something. There *are* innocent men convicted. DNA tests, years later, are freeing innocent men from prison by the hundreds who were imprisoned &quot;beyond reasonable doubt&quot;. It not only happens, it happens a lot. I once lost a job myself for a failed drug test, and swear on my kids&#039; lives I had not been smoking pot or been around anyone who did. It *does* happen. So is it fair for me to lean towards the opinion that Braun did do it? Absolutely not. In the absence of knowing, one really must put some weight on the fact that the testing process was not only flawed, but badly flawed. If I could&#039;ve contested the process of my &quot;failed&quot; drug test, I sure would have.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Viva&#8230;yes, Braun&#8217;s comments would be biased toward whatever serves him best. But what if&#8230;just what if&#8230;he actually *was* innocent? Then all the &#8220;interpretations&#8221; of what he&#8217;s saying and why he&#8217;s saying it fall flat and go out the window. I&#8217;ve suspected from the beginning that he must&#8217;ve done something. But honestly, I&#8217;m not *sure* he did something. There *are* innocent men convicted. DNA tests, years later, are freeing innocent men from prison by the hundreds who were imprisoned &#8220;beyond reasonable doubt&#8221;. It not only happens, it happens a lot. I once lost a job myself for a failed drug test, and swear on my kids&#8217; lives I had not been smoking pot or been around anyone who did. It *does* happen. So is it fair for me to lean towards the opinion that Braun did do it? Absolutely not. In the absence of knowing, one really must put some weight on the fact that the testing process was not only flawed, but badly flawed. If I could&#8217;ve contested the process of my &#8220;failed&#8221; drug test, I sure would have.</p>
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		<title>By: stuckonwords</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265564</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stuckonwords]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good Lord, Man. The job of a reader is to try to understand the content of the entire reading, not pick out certain words and look for ways to manipulate them to suit your own agenda. My history teacher always made clear that we were to &quot;Read and understand&quot; an assignment; it wasn&#039;t nearly enough to simply read it. Try to follow along.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Lord, Man. The job of a reader is to try to understand the content of the entire reading, not pick out certain words and look for ways to manipulate them to suit your own agenda. My history teacher always made clear that we were to &#8220;Read and understand&#8221; an assignment; it wasn&#8217;t nearly enough to simply read it. Try to follow along.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: stuckonwords</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265563</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stuckonwords]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A huge problem in society is the notion that money &quot;makes it alright&quot;. Are you in the top 2% of money earners? Then you&#039;re not one of those who possesses 90% of the world&#039;s wealth, right? So on this planet, where those 2% rule those 98%, when you argue &quot;if you don&#039;t want the money, go somewhere else&quot;, you&#039;re advocating that it&#039;s a good system. Let the evil pervade, as long as you can get your mousy little nibble of the pie. And as you made clear, this man has no other way to earn the golden handcuffs of MLB pay. He either agrees to the evil, or he digs ditches.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A huge problem in society is the notion that money &#8220;makes it alright&#8221;. Are you in the top 2% of money earners? Then you&#8217;re not one of those who possesses 90% of the world&#8217;s wealth, right? So on this planet, where those 2% rule those 98%, when you argue &#8220;if you don&#8217;t want the money, go somewhere else&#8221;, you&#8217;re advocating that it&#8217;s a good system. Let the evil pervade, as long as you can get your mousy little nibble of the pie. And as you made clear, this man has no other way to earn the golden handcuffs of MLB pay. He either agrees to the evil, or he digs ditches.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: stuckonwords</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265561</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stuckonwords]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Could you provide a link to Lupica&#039;s article?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you provide a link to Lupica&#8217;s article?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265558</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 05:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265558</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Going to use italics to differentiate:


“He has a ton of arguments laid out, but how is the Koufax one horsepucky?”

&lt;i&gt;Simple because Koufax’s situation was the result of injury. It was in no way similar to PED use because if you stop using the acronym it means performance enhancing drugs, i.e. taking ones natural ability and further extending them beyond ones normal capabilities as the result of drug use. It’s not even comparing apples to oranges it’s comparing apples to hamburger.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m fully aware of what the acronym stands for.   However, you don&#039;t say why extending a person&#039;s abilities beyond their natural boundaries is wrong.  As Pierce said, if we had a drug that could make Koufax pitch beyond his age 30 season, what&#039;s wrong with that?

&lt;i&gt;“…which drug do you think was more performance enhancing, the drugs given Rob Gronkowski so he could play in the Super Bowl, or the steroids that Barry Bonds took?”

Again a false analogy. One was temporary and the result of an injury that didn’t extent his natural ability AND was done in connection medical supervision while the other extended his ability , .. changed his entire performance dynamics and extended his career.&lt;/i&gt;

Umm, PEDs don&#039;t do all that by themselves unlike the pain killers people receive(d).  You have to actually do work in conjunction with taking the PEDs to get any benefit.  Also, the effects are temporary, just longer than a painkiller.

&lt;i&gt;“Face it, we’re a nation of drug users …”

So? Exactly what does recreational drug use, whether it be drink, weed, cigarettes or the penile type have to do with a level playing field and honest competition MLB? And, only one of the “recreational” drugs you refer to actually enhances performance. The rest degrade performance. The same with your reference to DUI accidents that resulted in deaths, .. how does that have anything to do PEDs in baseball? Simple neither have anything to do with banning PEDs from baseball.&lt;/i&gt;

Because the moral outrage against PEDs in baseball isn&#039;t because &quot;OMG the players are better than they were before!&quot; (which is asinine), it&#039;s &quot;OMG THEY ARE TAKING ILLEGAL DRUGS!!??!?!?!&quot;.  So why are some types of drugs, whether legal or not okay, but PEDs are a big NoNo?

&lt;i&gt;Because certain types of behavior are tolerated or legal isn’t licence to look the other way on anything or turn baseball into the chemical equivalent of the wild west. I agree that there is certain behavior that is tolerated in our culture for no other reason than they were “grandfathered”, like cigarettes, .. or so ingrained that it’s impossible to reverse like booze and caffeine. I even agree that there are parts of the war on drugs, specifically weed, that we should just surrender on because like booze during Prohibition that horse has left the barn, … and I don’t smoke weed. But, that is not even a good argument to not ban all “recreational drugs” and is not licence to not make every effort to keep PEDs out of baseball.&lt;/i&gt;

Never said it was, and the just because this is tolerated doesn&#039;t mean that should be is an argument I never made.  In fact I&#039;m saying the direct opposite, that it&#039;s hypocritical to not care about one and care about the other.  I&#039;m just stating that if your position is you don&#039;t care about A, why care about B?

&lt;i&gt;Also, steroids are illegal in this country, like it or not. Do you suggest that MLB ignore the fact that a significant portion of their players are clearly and regularly violating federal law? Aside from the negative impact to the image MLB tries so hard to maintain how long do you think it would be before the federal authorities started arresting baseball players for trafficking and using PEDs? How many top tier players do you think the FBI would lock up before the rest of the players got the message? Why do you think the MLBPA caved on drug testing in the first place? Congressional hearings with the clear message that either the players and the owners clean up their act or the government would do it for them.&lt;/i&gt;

Greenies have always been illegal.  Beating your wife is illegal.  Drinking and driving is illegal.  Which of these have involved players been persecuted nearly 1/10th the same as taking steroids?

&lt;i&gt;And, you didn’t bother to address what happens when kids see that the it’s not only common place for baseball players to use PEDs but it’s expected and is actually the best avenue to becoming a MLB player. How do you stop that? And, when do start to look the other way, .. once a kid, 18-19-20, signs a pro contract?&lt;/i&gt;

Really, we&#039;re going to play the kid angle?  How about parents step up and be, I don&#039;t know, f&#039;ing parents?  I played Division 1 sports, know why I never took anything performance enhancing?  Not because it was immoral, plenty of immoral shit goes on in athletics, hell just look at the NCAA.  I didn&#039;t take anything because if I got caught, and embarrassed my parents, my father would beat the everloving piss out of me.  Then force me to pay him back the $150K or so he spent on my college education.  Then he&#039;d probably beat me with the money.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Going to use italics to differentiate:</p>
<p>“He has a ton of arguments laid out, but how is the Koufax one horsepucky?”</p>
<p><i>Simple because Koufax’s situation was the result of injury. It was in no way similar to PED use because if you stop using the acronym it means performance enhancing drugs, i.e. taking ones natural ability and further extending them beyond ones normal capabilities as the result of drug use. It’s not even comparing apples to oranges it’s comparing apples to hamburger.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m fully aware of what the acronym stands for.   However, you don&#8217;t say why extending a person&#8217;s abilities beyond their natural boundaries is wrong.  As Pierce said, if we had a drug that could make Koufax pitch beyond his age 30 season, what&#8217;s wrong with that?</p>
<p><i>“…which drug do you think was more performance enhancing, the drugs given Rob Gronkowski so he could play in the Super Bowl, or the steroids that Barry Bonds took?”</p>
<p>Again a false analogy. One was temporary and the result of an injury that didn’t extent his natural ability AND was done in connection medical supervision while the other extended his ability , .. changed his entire performance dynamics and extended his career.</i></p>
<p>Umm, PEDs don&#8217;t do all that by themselves unlike the pain killers people receive(d).  You have to actually do work in conjunction with taking the PEDs to get any benefit.  Also, the effects are temporary, just longer than a painkiller.</p>
<p><i>“Face it, we’re a nation of drug users …”</p>
<p>So? Exactly what does recreational drug use, whether it be drink, weed, cigarettes or the penile type have to do with a level playing field and honest competition MLB? And, only one of the “recreational” drugs you refer to actually enhances performance. The rest degrade performance. The same with your reference to DUI accidents that resulted in deaths, .. how does that have anything to do PEDs in baseball? Simple neither have anything to do with banning PEDs from baseball.</i></p>
<p>Because the moral outrage against PEDs in baseball isn&#8217;t because &#8220;OMG the players are better than they were before!&#8221; (which is asinine), it&#8217;s &#8220;OMG THEY ARE TAKING ILLEGAL DRUGS!!??!?!?!&#8221;.  So why are some types of drugs, whether legal or not okay, but PEDs are a big NoNo?</p>
<p><i>Because certain types of behavior are tolerated or legal isn’t licence to look the other way on anything or turn baseball into the chemical equivalent of the wild west. I agree that there is certain behavior that is tolerated in our culture for no other reason than they were “grandfathered”, like cigarettes, .. or so ingrained that it’s impossible to reverse like booze and caffeine. I even agree that there are parts of the war on drugs, specifically weed, that we should just surrender on because like booze during Prohibition that horse has left the barn, … and I don’t smoke weed. But, that is not even a good argument to not ban all “recreational drugs” and is not licence to not make every effort to keep PEDs out of baseball.</i></p>
<p>Never said it was, and the just because this is tolerated doesn&#8217;t mean that should be is an argument I never made.  In fact I&#8217;m saying the direct opposite, that it&#8217;s hypocritical to not care about one and care about the other.  I&#8217;m just stating that if your position is you don&#8217;t care about A, why care about B?</p>
<p><i>Also, steroids are illegal in this country, like it or not. Do you suggest that MLB ignore the fact that a significant portion of their players are clearly and regularly violating federal law? Aside from the negative impact to the image MLB tries so hard to maintain how long do you think it would be before the federal authorities started arresting baseball players for trafficking and using PEDs? How many top tier players do you think the FBI would lock up before the rest of the players got the message? Why do you think the MLBPA caved on drug testing in the first place? Congressional hearings with the clear message that either the players and the owners clean up their act or the government would do it for them.</i></p>
<p>Greenies have always been illegal.  Beating your wife is illegal.  Drinking and driving is illegal.  Which of these have involved players been persecuted nearly 1/10th the same as taking steroids?</p>
<p><i>And, you didn’t bother to address what happens when kids see that the it’s not only common place for baseball players to use PEDs but it’s expected and is actually the best avenue to becoming a MLB player. How do you stop that? And, when do start to look the other way, .. once a kid, 18-19-20, signs a pro contract?</i></p>
<p>Really, we&#8217;re going to play the kid angle?  How about parents step up and be, I don&#8217;t know, f&#8217;ing parents?  I played Division 1 sports, know why I never took anything performance enhancing?  Not because it was immoral, plenty of immoral shit goes on in athletics, hell just look at the NCAA.  I didn&#8217;t take anything because if I got caught, and embarrassed my parents, my father would beat the everloving piss out of me.  Then force me to pay him back the $150K or so he spent on my college education.  Then he&#8217;d probably beat me with the money.</p>
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		<title>By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265551</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 04:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265551</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not semantics.  The appeal to authority with WADA is clearly a biased opinion.  If I was the type of person who wanted this country to be run with a religious undertone, I can&#039;t turn around ask the Catholic Church what their opinion on this behavior would be, could I?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not semantics.  The appeal to authority with WADA is clearly a biased opinion.  If I was the type of person who wanted this country to be run with a religious undertone, I can&#8217;t turn around ask the Catholic Church what their opinion on this behavior would be, could I?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265545</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 04:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265545</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why wouldn&#039;t a clean Ryan Braun want this? I don&#039;t know enough science to say if mishandling could have caused a false positive, but nobody from Braun&#039;s camp seems to be saying any such thing. It is just frustrating that a mishandling in procedure (which is not a universally held opinion in this case) prevents the possibility of discovering the truth of the matter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why wouldn&#8217;t a clean Ryan Braun want this? I don&#8217;t know enough science to say if mishandling could have caused a false positive, but nobody from Braun&#8217;s camp seems to be saying any such thing. It is just frustrating that a mishandling in procedure (which is not a universally held opinion in this case) prevents the possibility of discovering the truth of the matter.</p>
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		<title>By: vivabear</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265543</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vivabear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 04:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Church - semantics...my response to you saying WADA is biased, is that Ryan Braun in biased toward himself. He&#039;s only going to tell the part of the story that makes him look innocent, and doesn&#039;t lead to any more questions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Church &#8211; semantics&#8230;my response to you saying WADA is biased, is that Ryan Braun in biased toward himself. He&#8217;s only going to tell the part of the story that makes him look innocent, and doesn&#8217;t lead to any more questions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: vivabear</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265538</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vivabear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 04:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now if you go back and read your own post, it&#039;s gonna top everything else as the dumbest thing you&#039;ve ever read. Braun&#039;s own union agreed to the drug testing...that&#039;s not eating whatever shit sandwich the MLB served up. Yeah the leak wasn&#039;t part of said program, but no one is saying that it was. If it&#039;s found who leaked the info, I guess that person should be dealt with properly for breaching confidentiality.

I guess if a woman agreed to be paid for performing favors, that&#039;s her choice - I believe they&#039;re called prostitutes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now if you go back and read your own post, it&#8217;s gonna top everything else as the dumbest thing you&#8217;ve ever read. Braun&#8217;s own union agreed to the drug testing&#8230;that&#8217;s not eating whatever shit sandwich the MLB served up. Yeah the leak wasn&#8217;t part of said program, but no one is saying that it was. If it&#8217;s found who leaked the info, I guess that person should be dealt with properly for breaching confidentiality.</p>
<p>I guess if a woman agreed to be paid for performing favors, that&#8217;s her choice &#8211; I believe they&#8217;re called prostitutes.</p>
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		<title>By: bigharold</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265526</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bigharold]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 03:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265526</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;He has a ton of arguments laid out, but how is the Koufax one horsepucky?&quot;

Simple because Koufax&#039;s situation was the result of injury.  It was in no way similar to PED use  because if you stop using the acronym it means performance enhancing drugs, i.e. taking ones natural ability and further extending them beyond ones normal capabilities as the result of drug use.  It&#039;s not even comparing apples to oranges it&#039;s comparing apples to hamburger.  

&quot;...which drug do you think was more performance enhancing, the drugs given Rob Gronkowski so he could play in the Super Bowl, or the steroids that Barry Bonds took?&quot;

Again a false analogy.  One was temporary and the result of an injury that didn&#039;t extent his natural ability AND was done in connection medical supervision while the other extended his ability , .. changed his entire performance dynamics and extended his career. 

&quot;Face it, we’re a nation of drug users ...&quot;

So?  Exactly what does recreational drug use, whether it be drink, weed, cigarettes or the penile type have to do with a level playing field and honest competition MLB?  And, only one of the &quot;recreational&quot; drugs you refer to actually enhances performance.  The rest degrade performance.  The same with your reference to DUI accidents that resulted in deaths, .. how does that have anything to do PEDs in baseball?  Simple neither have anything to do with banning PEDs from baseball. 

Because certain types of behavior are tolerated or legal isn&#039;t licence to look the other way on anything or turn baseball into the chemical equivalent of the wild west.  I agree that there is certain behavior that is tolerated in our culture for no other reason than they were &quot;grandfathered&quot;, like cigarettes, .. or so ingrained that it&#039;s impossible to reverse like booze and caffeine.  I even agree that there are parts of the war on drugs, specifically weed, that we should just surrender on because like booze during Prohibition that horse has left the barn, ... and I don&#039;t smoke weed.  But, that is not even a good argument to not ban all &quot;recreational drugs&quot; and is not licence to not make every effort to keep PEDs out of baseball.  

Also, steroids are illegal in this country, like it or not.  Do you suggest that MLB ignore the fact that a significant portion of their players are clearly and regularly violating federal law?  Aside from the negative impact to the image MLB tries so hard to maintain how long do you think it would be before the federal authorities started arresting baseball players for trafficking and using PEDs?  How many top tier players do you think the FBI would lock up before the rest of the players got the message?  Why do you think the MLBPA caved on drug testing in the first place? Congressional hearings with the clear message that either the players and the owners clean up their act or the government would do it for them. 

And, you didn&#039;t bother to address what happens when kids see that the it&#039;s not only common place for baseball players to use PEDs but it&#039;s expected and is actually the best avenue to becoming a MLB player.  How do you stop that?  And, when do start to look the other way, .. once a kid, 18-19-20, signs a pro contract?  

If MLB tacitly approves of PED use it opens up a series of issues that cause more problems than they solve.  It could well turn MLB into the WWF by undermining credibility.  The correct answer is for MLB and MLPA to get together and do testing right.  Since when is it a good idea to avoid doing not only the right thing but something that really needs to be done just because it&#039;s not easy?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He has a ton of arguments laid out, but how is the Koufax one horsepucky?&#8221;</p>
<p>Simple because Koufax&#8217;s situation was the result of injury.  It was in no way similar to PED use  because if you stop using the acronym it means performance enhancing drugs, i.e. taking ones natural ability and further extending them beyond ones normal capabilities as the result of drug use.  It&#8217;s not even comparing apples to oranges it&#8217;s comparing apples to hamburger.  </p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;which drug do you think was more performance enhancing, the drugs given Rob Gronkowski so he could play in the Super Bowl, or the steroids that Barry Bonds took?&#8221;</p>
<p>Again a false analogy.  One was temporary and the result of an injury that didn&#8217;t extent his natural ability AND was done in connection medical supervision while the other extended his ability , .. changed his entire performance dynamics and extended his career. </p>
<p>&#8220;Face it, we’re a nation of drug users &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>So?  Exactly what does recreational drug use, whether it be drink, weed, cigarettes or the penile type have to do with a level playing field and honest competition MLB?  And, only one of the &#8220;recreational&#8221; drugs you refer to actually enhances performance.  The rest degrade performance.  The same with your reference to DUI accidents that resulted in deaths, .. how does that have anything to do PEDs in baseball?  Simple neither have anything to do with banning PEDs from baseball. </p>
<p>Because certain types of behavior are tolerated or legal isn&#8217;t licence to look the other way on anything or turn baseball into the chemical equivalent of the wild west.  I agree that there is certain behavior that is tolerated in our culture for no other reason than they were &#8220;grandfathered&#8221;, like cigarettes, .. or so ingrained that it&#8217;s impossible to reverse like booze and caffeine.  I even agree that there are parts of the war on drugs, specifically weed, that we should just surrender on because like booze during Prohibition that horse has left the barn, &#8230; and I don&#8217;t smoke weed.  But, that is not even a good argument to not ban all &#8220;recreational drugs&#8221; and is not licence to not make every effort to keep PEDs out of baseball.  </p>
<p>Also, steroids are illegal in this country, like it or not.  Do you suggest that MLB ignore the fact that a significant portion of their players are clearly and regularly violating federal law?  Aside from the negative impact to the image MLB tries so hard to maintain how long do you think it would be before the federal authorities started arresting baseball players for trafficking and using PEDs?  How many top tier players do you think the FBI would lock up before the rest of the players got the message?  Why do you think the MLBPA caved on drug testing in the first place? Congressional hearings with the clear message that either the players and the owners clean up their act or the government would do it for them. </p>
<p>And, you didn&#8217;t bother to address what happens when kids see that the it&#8217;s not only common place for baseball players to use PEDs but it&#8217;s expected and is actually the best avenue to becoming a MLB player.  How do you stop that?  And, when do start to look the other way, .. once a kid, 18-19-20, signs a pro contract?  </p>
<p>If MLB tacitly approves of PED use it opens up a series of issues that cause more problems than they solve.  It could well turn MLB into the WWF by undermining credibility.  The correct answer is for MLB and MLPA to get together and do testing right.  Since when is it a good idea to avoid doing not only the right thing but something that really needs to be done just because it&#8217;s not easy?</p>
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		<title>By: saints97</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265524</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[saints97]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 03:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I bet you didn&#039;t know that it takes about 48 hours for synthetic testosterone to clear the system.

It is not at all easy to catch someone using synthetic testosterone. And when you finally do, the results get thrown out because apparently &quot;secure&quot; means Fort Knox to some.

Everyone who has ever failed a drug test in professional sports has passed many more than they failed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bet you didn&#8217;t know that it takes about 48 hours for synthetic testosterone to clear the system.</p>
<p>It is not at all easy to catch someone using synthetic testosterone. And when you finally do, the results get thrown out because apparently &#8220;secure&#8221; means Fort Knox to some.</p>
<p>Everyone who has ever failed a drug test in professional sports has passed many more than they failed.</p>
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		<title>By: cur68</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/the-ryan-braun-saga-tells-us-something-about-the-culture-of-baseball/comment-page-1/#comment-265514</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cur68]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 03:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=117591#comment-265514</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Arbitrator&#039;s report is suppose to be out within 30 days of the hearing&#039;s decision. Rumor has it (ha ha) that he&#039;ll be ready with it before then. Here&#039;s hoping.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arbitrator&#8217;s report is suppose to be out within 30 days of the hearing&#8217;s decision. Rumor has it (ha ha) that he&#8217;ll be ready with it before then. Here&#8217;s hoping.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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