Comments on: Phillies front office: “Sabermetrics? We don’t need no stinkin’ sabermetrics!”

By: mercyflush

mercyflush — Sat, 03 Mar 2012 14:31:49 +0000

“hahahaha, the Phillies are terrible”

9 straight winning seasons, and 10 of 11.

They’re doing something right.

Also, for a team saying they don’t use sabermetrics, that second baseman and that starting rotation are pretty freaking sabermetrical. (sabermetric-ish?)

By: cur68

cur68 — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 21:22:34 +0000

Its my hope, Suzy, that McCarver will have a go at defining it on air.

By: badmamainphilliesjamas

badmamainphilliesjamas — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 20:20:20 +0000

Did I mis-read Moneyball? It is another way (beyond scouting) to evaluate talent and more accurately value players in the marketplace–basically value investing in the baseball market.

By: foreverchipper10

foreverchipper10 — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 19:58:47 +0000

badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger MUSHROOM MUSHROOM

By: stex52

stex52 — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 19:43:29 +0000

Love this blog. Never heard of TOOTBLAN until today. I will add to my baseball lexicon.

Sue Ellen likes.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 19:23:08 +0000

No teams use sabermetrics to evaluate talent….that is what scouts are for….sabermetrics attempt (within statistical analysis, everything is an attempt as there is always some level of error…just as scouts attempt to evaluate talent, but are never 100% correct) to identify which aspects of performance can be attributed to players and how those aspects contribute to wins and losses…which is totally different that scouting or evaluating talent.

FWIW, there has never been a team that fired all its scouts or stopped relying on scouts to evaluate talent. Teams just realized there were aspects of winning that they had no ability whatsoever to evaluate, estimate, or understand, and that they needed new tools to address that knowledge gap because the extant ones simply were not able to do so.

By: Gamera the Brave

Gamera the Brave — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 17:48:47 +0000

Nice use of blog entry cross-pollination!

By: Gamera the Brave

Gamera the Brave — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 17:47:12 +0000

Since Theriot now plays for los Gigantes, you must now root for them.
It was the Theriot trade to the Giants that first exposed me to the concept of TOOTBLAN.

By: mcsnide

mcsnide — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 17:44:53 +0000

Well, sure, he took whatever of it with him he can remember or has notes on. But as for the software that spits out the analysis, nope. That belongs to the Sox: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-10-16/sports/ct-spt-1017-cubs-carmine–20111017_1_sabermetrics-cubs-convention-chairman-tom-ricketts

By: snowbirdgothic

snowbirdgothic — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 17:18:37 +0000

But what about “Badgers? Badgers? We don’t need no stinking badgers!”

By: ame123

ame123 — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 17:06:39 +0000

Fans of poor teams like the Braves don’t know any other way to judge decisions.

By: rpd118

rpd118 — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:56:32 +0000

The Howard accounts for 13% of annual payroll, roughly the same as the sunk Jenkins and Eaton contracts when the Phillies won the World Series in 2008.

Did they pay $2M more than they needed to annually to sign Papelbon? You can make that argument, but the fact is they got the best guy available. Wouldn’t it be negligent for a luxury-tax-touching team NOT to do so?

It’s time to stop pretending the GMs of the Phillies and Yankees and Royals and Rays should be judged by the same criteria.

By: ame123

ame123 — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:44:39 +0000

U Mad? Sounds like U mad.

By: nategearhart

nategearhart — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:31:14 +0000

They could be on their way. Amaro is great at the savvy trade for a player everyone knows is good, but long term they need to keep developing well. That Howard contract is going to turn into an albatross, and they are going to need cheap talent very very soon.

By: nategearhart

nategearhart — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:29:11 +0000

I get that you are being sarcastic. But they don’t “simply rely on what they see on the field”. If you think they don’t use any advanced metrics you’re outta your mind.

By: El Bravo

El Bravo — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:23:02 +0000

hahahaha, the Phillies are terrible

By: flavius217

flavius217 — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:10:07 +0000

When you hand out ridiculous contracts to an overrated, platoon-needing 1B and an overrated pitcher who will throw 60-70 IP, maybe you ought to consider listening to your quantitative guys some more.

By: Cran Boy

Cran Boy — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:08:46 +0000

Actually, it is from “Blazing Saddles.” The line in “Treasure of the Sierra Madre” is “Badges? We ain’t got no badges. We don’t need no badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges.” The line “We don’t need no stinkin’ badges” is from “Blazing Saddles.”

By: phillyphreak

phillyphreak — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:07:55 +0000

Still adding my shameless plugs: still need about 6 more people to fill out a 5×5 roto league….interested parties please inquire to this name at yahoo.

Also, maybe RAJ is just pulling the wool partly over people’s eyes. I’m sure they have their own metrics they use.

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 15:49:01 +0000

Just seeing a picture of NinJr putting on his Jedi Vision Shades makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over. Play Ball!!!!!

By: Alex K

Alex K — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 15:37:11 +0000

I doubt he can. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t going to be some similarities between the two. I would imagine that every team’s is somewhat similar, in that they probably have very similar inputs (OBP, SLG, ect). Where the biggest difference would most likely be is in weighting of inputs and how they measure defense.

By: 12strikes

12strikes — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 15:25:14 +0000

Sad to admit but I did not know till I READ THIS POST.

By: metalhead65

metalhead65 — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 15:23:34 +0000

well that explains why the phillies are such a lousy team and never win! I mean how can they expect to win by simply relying on what they see on the field? they really need to rely on the expert advice of the saber experts if they really want to turn that team around..what? oh nevermind then.

By: lardin

lardin — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 15:13:18 +0000

IMO you need both to build a quality team. Stats tell you almost everything you need to know about a player. But they dont tell you things like, how they rebound from bad outings or can they make adjustments from at bat to at bat. Are they comfortable in a big spot? The great closers like MO or Papblebon dont let a blown save roll over into the next game. Great hitters will realize how a pitcher is going after them and adjust. Tom Gordon was throwing up in the Yankees bullpen in 2004, scared to pitch.

By: bravojawja

bravojawja — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 15:12:59 +0000

I wonder how proprietary these stats are. Can Epstein even take RedSoxWAR with him to Chicago or is that Boston’s intellectual property?

This is Masturbating Bear territory here.

By: hasbeen5

hasbeen5 — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 14:55:38 +0000

They rely on their “Talent Scouts,” they buy them shirts and everything.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 14:54:18 +0000

TOOTBLAN rocks!

By: cur68

cur68 — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 14:50:06 +0000

Ahhh, but do any of them use TOOTBLAN? That’s a team I’d root for.

By: stex52

stex52 — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 14:47:57 +0000

A lot of discussion swirls around “What is the next big inefficiency?” and I think that is what this conversation is morphing into. As Craig says, most of the organizations that tried to ignore the more sophisticated tools are past that, now – Astros being the latest to fall. But I wonder if the next advance isn’t more in the direction of quantifying the tools that scouts use and getting better projections for the young players. Examples: prone to injury? work ethic? stable emotional background?

To pick a couple of examples from the Astros, which I know best; why did a 23rd round draft choice (Roy Oswalt) become a #1 pitcher? What did we miss? Similarly; Derick Grigsby is drafted #1 in 2002 and never makes it to the majors due to mental illness. What did we miss?

Everyone says the whole draft process is hit or miss – particularly on #1 draft choices. But find the weaknesses there and improve on the choices you make, and you will profit enormously.

By: ame123

ame123 — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 14:43:58 +0000

So you mean to tell me that being able to sort by the WAR column on fangraphs doesn’t make us into professional talent evaluators?