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Benches empty after Ubaldo Jimenez plunks Troy Tulowitzki

Apr 1, 2012, 6:31 PM EDT

Troy Tulowitzki, Lou Marson AP

Troy Tulowitzki was taken to the hospital for precautionary X-rays on his left elbow, which came back negative, after being hit by Ubaldo Jimenez’s very first pitch of the game Sunday.

Jimenez made it clear immediately afterwards that he was sending his former teammate a message, pounding his chest after the pitch. Tulo started to take some steps toward the mound, causing the benches to clear. Both players were held back by teammates before matters could escalate.

Jimenez and Tulo had already had it out a bit in the media this month. Jimenez has made it clear he felt disrespected by the Rockies when he was shipped to Cleveland at the trade deadline last year. Tulowitzki indicated that Jimenez was a difficult teammate. CBSSports quoted him saying the following in a March 8 article:

You try to get a feel for a teammate, and we can’t get anything back. People ask, ‘Well, he’s your teammate, don’t you know what’s wrong with him?

We tried to ask him. And we couldn’t get anything in return.

Considering Jimenez’s history, one wonders why the Indians had him pitching today in the first place. He wasn’t ejected from the game, though he probably should have been. A five-game suspension is certainly warranted given his actions.

Update: Jimenez said after the outing that the pitch was unintentional and that his chest pounding was a response to Tulo’s words.

“The thing that got started was, he was calling me out (from the batters box). I mean, I’m a man. If somebody calls me out, I have to go. He was calling me chicken. He was calling me names,” Jimenez said.
The Denver Post’s Troy Renck also reports that the Rockies are expected to request that Jimenez be suspended.
  1. danrizzle - Apr 1, 2012 at 6:49 PM

    Extreme lack of manliness shown by Jimenez here. Throwing rocks (baseballs) at people from far away is nothing but pure cowardice. I can’t stand it that pitchers who throw at people get tough guy reputations; it’s quite the opposite the way I see it.

    • ljl2 - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:19 PM

      I thought baseball has always celebrated the use of throwing at the body to settle scores?

      • Lukehart80 - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:25 PM

        Even if it has, is “that’s the way we’ve always done it” necessarily a good reason to do something?

      • ljl2 - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:31 PM

        lukehart80 – the unwritten rules of baseball have held players accountable to the game for over a century

      • paperlions - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:40 PM

        Actually, it is the exact opposite….players have hidden behind the amorphous “unwritten rules” for over a century. Using bull shit to justify stupidity is not the same as settling a score or being held accountable.

      • ljl2 - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:41 PM

        modern interpretation, but to each their own

      • Lukehart80 - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:41 PM

        But what does “accountable to the game” mean? Doesn’t a suspension hold Jimenez accountable, instead of Santana getting hit and potentially injured?

      • firstandonlywarning - Apr 1, 2012 at 8:03 PM

        Luke has never played baseball in his life, he has no understanding of protecting your teammates.
        Players who get hit EXPECT their pitchers to defend them, not hope that MLB might punish the pitcher that hit you.
        I know this idea is totally lost on you, because you know….you never played a team sport in your life, you prefer to sit on the sidelines and tout stuff like “now now, two wrongs don’t make a right” garbage.

        See there is this thing called team unity, how it’s built and maintained is by sticking up for your own.
        There is this other thing called reality, and the reality is if it is known that your staff will not stick up for their own and let MLB handle things, other teams staffs will take advantage of this.

        Again, I do not expect you to understand

      • danrizzle - Apr 1, 2012 at 8:36 PM

        So, firstandonly, Ubaldo throwing at Tulo was about team unity or something? Players who get hit and EXPECT their pitcher to avenge them are, I don’t know, little babies. As for this “reality” that you refer to, is that the same reality in which you are the only person on this message board who has played a team sport?

      • paperlions - Apr 2, 2012 at 7:39 AM

        Thinking that hitting the opposing team somehow protects your teammates is near the acme of stupidity. If all teams think throwing at the other team equates to protection, then every team is throwing at everyone else. The fact is that by hitting opposing players you are putting your teammates in danger.

        Want to protect them? Learn to throw inside effectively and don’t do it up around the head.

      • The Baseball Idiot - Apr 2, 2012 at 8:37 AM

        paperlions: could you please explain the phrase ‘acme of stupidity’ to me.

        “Esteemed counsel uses a phrase with the bench is not familiar”

      • stuckonwords - Apr 2, 2012 at 8:44 AM

        Since it was Jiminez’ first pitch of the game, which teammate had been endangered by Colorado at that point that Jiminez was ‘protecting’?

    • Gamera the Brave - Apr 2, 2012 at 12:16 PM

      Even if everything you said about Luke was factually correct – which I doubt, but I don’t know the dude personally – what you said and how you said it wins my personal “Gamera’s douchenozzle of the day” award.

  2. sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo - Apr 1, 2012 at 6:51 PM

    After seeing Ubaldo pitch last year, I think he was pounding his chest because he was proud that he got a pitch THAT CLOSE to the strike zone. He has heard about guys who can actually throw one IN the strike zone, but he is pretty sure that was something CarGo and Tulo made up to bust his balls.

  3. ireportyoudecide - Apr 1, 2012 at 6:56 PM

    I’m just glad Tulo didn’t get seriously hurt. There is no room for purposely hitting players in MLB anymore, I compare it to the bounty system the Saints were using. If you don’t like a guy strike him out and scream at him, but trying to hurt somebody is just unacceptable. Judging buy Udouchebag’s reactions he did it on purpose and deserves to be suspended.

  4. firstandonlywarning - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:06 PM

    Simple solution
    Drill Santana square in the back

    Baseball has been played for a long long time, and this has always been the easiest and simplest solution.
    And settling or counting on MLB to police and protect your teammates is beyond stupid.

    If Im a manager I send a message that my pitching staff will destroy your best hitters without mercy if one of yours start garbage like what happened today.

    • Lukehart80 - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:22 PM

      The notion that two wrongs make a right is childish.

      Actually, even many children know better than that. The solution is to hope Tulowitzki is alright, request that the league review the situation and suspend Jimenez, and move on.

      • firstandonlywarning - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:32 PM

        The notion that pro-sport needs to conform to your soft sense of values is moronic and beyond obvious you never played baseball in your life.

        “two wrongs don’t make a right” Are you kidding me?
        Go coach lil league and teach kids right and wrong, Im talking about professional athletes playing a team sport.

        “the solution is to hope your players are ok”
        And pray to god other teams don’t take advantage by intimating your players, and then go for pizza afterwards?

        Go hop in your minivan with your Hillary Clinton in 2008 bumper sticker and get me a pair of those rose colored glasses so I can be as foolish as you.

      • Lukehart80 - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:50 PM

        I did play baseball, though not beyond high school. Maybe it takes playing collegiate level ball to get the message.

        Jimenez having to miss a turn through the rotation seems a much more fitting penalty than Carlos Santana getting hit in the ribs. If MLB policed things more seriously, players/teams would get the message. As for intimidation, do you really think Tulo is going to be shaken if/when he faces Jimenez next? I think you sell him short.

        I like the minivan and Hillary Clinton stuff though. I feel totally put in my place by it.

      • firstandonlywarning - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:51 PM

        BTW the ESPN message boards miss your liberal fantasy land take on baseball

      • Old Gator - Apr 1, 2012 at 8:00 PM

        First and only, you sound like some kind of a cross between a neanderthal thug and a complete, juvenile jackass.

      • Baseball Beer Burritos In That Order - Apr 2, 2012 at 3:33 AM

        You can all go to liberal fantasy land, where you have boring baseball games where people play out of “love for competition” instead of awesome stuff like “denigrating others to boost one’s self-confidence”. I don’t know about you liberal idiots, but I’d rather hang out in an ostrich paradise with firstandonlywarning where no one else ever played spots and their opinions are worthless because they are not ours. Go hop in your John Kerry, something something Reagan, gays aren’t natural because 2,000 years ago people with little education or means to accurately preserve history spoke to the creator of the universe, I failed US History multiple times.

      • Mohammed Chang - Apr 2, 2012 at 3:26 PM

        firstandonlywarning & Baseball Beer Burritos In That Order…

        Proving that a good deal of this discussion has little to do with baseball, but serves as a nice proxy for signaling group membership.

    • stlouis1baseball - Apr 2, 2012 at 10:35 AM

      Firstandonly: Just a little piece of unsolicited advise…you are communicating with a much younger crowd (in general). Most (I would guess) are under age 30 and have never played the game. They have been “earning” competition ribbons their entire life and those who did play never had to bust their ass to make the team because EVERYONE made the team. This results in a sort of “dumbing down” and lack of drive. I mean…why bust your ass when you deserve a spot just by showing up and throwing rocks in the infield and/or picking dandelions in the outfield?

      • Gamera the Brave - Apr 2, 2012 at 12:44 PM

        I don’t know that you are demographically correct, maybe there are a bunch of youngsters that never played the Game. However, what I think people are reacting to – more than firstandonly’s opinion – is the personal nature of how he is attacking those with a different position.

        And, even though you have a point about the competition ribbon, I won’t go as far as you. I think that driven people don’t care about the competition ribbon, they just want to crush their opponents’ spleens regardless. Those people that are driven enough to excel are the ones that make it to the show. I do agree that we coddle kids too much these days, but I try avoid painting with the broadest brush possible…

        Again, firstandonly is just being mean-spirited – and one of the reasons many habituate HBT is because we can agree without being (too) disagreeable.

  5. opshuns - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:30 PM

    This is the very reason I don’t like the DH. I think a pitcher should have to face the music!

    • firstandonlywarning - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:48 PM

      Solves little, you hit the pitcher who hits one of your guy, and he see it has his problem and will keep doing his thing. You drill his teammates, then he has created a problem for his own guy, and maybe then he gets the picture.

      • paperlions - Apr 2, 2012 at 7:42 AM

        How do you not realize that you are defeating your own argument?

        Am I the only one here to stayed awake in school? /sarcasm

  6. 49ersgiants4life - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:49 PM

    Maybe Jamie Moyer will hit Santana next time these teams play that will show them.

    • micker716 - Apr 1, 2012 at 9:38 PM

      You want that pitch to hurt, not tickle.

  7. catamount1 - Apr 1, 2012 at 7:58 PM

    AWESOME! I could not agree more. These are professionals and that is how THIS game is played. If you don’t like it (and don’t give me the load of crap about two wrongs making a right etc…) turn the channel and enjoy the OWN network where they give a damn about your feelings.

    • Old Gator - Apr 1, 2012 at 8:03 PM

      Nice to see “professionals” used in a sentence whose celebration of dumbshit thuggery makes its author sound like he was raised by trailer trash.

    • brewcitybummer - Apr 1, 2012 at 10:08 PM

      All sports are arbitrary sets of rules designed so that they together create the best possible competitive event. When the National League first began the batter was allowed to pick the location of the pitch: high, low or middle. Then they decided there was a better way to do things.

      I think we can say for sure that no higher power ever handed down the rules of any sport on stone tablets from the heavens. “The way things have always been done” is a weird justification for anything but its particularly screwed up to use in the context of sports. Its all an arbitrary design. You can change it. Seriously, the sun will still rise tommorow.

    • mrredlegz - Apr 1, 2012 at 10:23 PM

      It’s all fun and games until someone plunks your $20MM/yr franchise player and he ends up on the 60-day DL.

    • stlouis1baseball - Apr 2, 2012 at 12:59 PM

      Hahaha! “Turn the channel and enjoy the OWN network where they give a damn about your feelings.” Outstanding Catamount! Hahaha! Well done Sir. Well done.

  8. soobster - Apr 1, 2012 at 8:47 PM

    Personally, I don’t think Pitchers exert their dominance over hitters by plunking them enough. Some of these divas at the plate to get plunked or at the very least brushed back a fair amount of times.

    • danrizzle - Apr 2, 2012 at 7:05 AM

      I’m waiting for the day when a hitter walks directly from the on-deck circle to the pitcher’s mound and clobbers the pitcher with his bat to prove a point. How, exactly, would that be different from the pitcher throwing at the hitter?

      • TomTom - Apr 2, 2012 at 8:54 AM

        Exactly. When the only thing protecting people from turning into unabashed animals is a bunch of unwritten rules and peer pressure, someone at some point is going to snap and a pitcher will end up with a bat to the side of the head and the people talking about how awesome it is that pitchers plunk batters to protect their teammates (on the first pitch of the game to the pitcher’s former teammate) will be the first to say “No way, that was too far!”

  9. patg1041 - Apr 1, 2012 at 9:04 PM

    It’s kind of funny to see all the negative reactions regarding intentionally plunking a batter. I don’t really understand it. As far as I’m concerned, as long as you stay below the shoulders, there isn’t a damn thing wrong with it. Now in this case, Jimenez hitting Tulowitzki because of some sand in his vagina regarding his contract, yes, I have a problem with that. But just in general, no there is nothing wrong with policing the game the way they have for the last century. You guys do realize that being hit with a baseball in the back is not ANYWHERE near the violence seen in a single down of football right? Hell, there are entire sports in which the entire goal is to give your opponent a concussion and this is the fight you guys are picking? Really? I understand that you can’t tradition stand in the way of progress but this is pussification run amok.

    • danrizzle - Apr 1, 2012 at 9:25 PM

      Throwing rocks at people from far away is juvenile first of all (is there any other situation in life where that is ok?). cowardly second of all (the pitcher will be protected by his teammates) and dangerous lastly (as the pitch can get away from you, hit the guy in the head, and, you know, concuss him or kill him).

      • patg1041 - Apr 1, 2012 at 9:59 PM

        Is there any other situation in life where it is ok to tackle other people? Funny, that happens all the time in football. In fact, I believe it may even be required. I believe I heard that somewhere. That isn’t something you see anywhere else, yet it is perfectly acceptable. Also, the pitch can get away from the pitcher even if he isn’t trying to hit a batter in the head. The vast majority of all beaned batters, are hit unintentiontionally. What’s the next step? Putting the ball on a tee because someone might just get hurt. In fact, that would be perfect. Then you don’t have to worry about the pitcher being hit by a line drive up the middle. Then we can eliminate running the bases. Don’t want to risk any muscle pulls. Those hurt like the dickens. No fielding either. Thats twice as dangerous. Running and throwing? That’s just crazy talk. No, lets just let everyone sit in a padded room with a helmet on so that no one can get hurt.

        I understand wanting to minimize injuries, but you can take it too far. I believe George Carlin said it best when he said “kids need to wear a helmet for everything accept jacking off nowadays.” Well, unfortunately, that mentality seems to be becoming an accepted way of life for adults too. If you elimnate some of the things that cause injuries, yes fewer people will get hurt. But you also eliminate some of the things that make the game worth playing in the first place. I think it would be wise for a lot of people to think about that.

      • danrizzle - Apr 2, 2012 at 7:00 AM

        Ouch, well I guess that’s checkmate, patg. Or then again, please finish this sentence: That analogy is inapposite because, among other reasons, tackling in football is ______________ the rules and purposefully throwing at hitters in baseball is ______________________ the rules.

    • djpostl - Apr 1, 2012 at 9:53 PM

      I don’t mind plunking a guy but the “reason” behind it is bullshit to me. He was a candyass and acted like a 12 year old in Colorado so they traded him then he is mad at a former teammate who answered a question honestly.

      I don’t even see how he took Tulo’s remark as an attack or an insult. He just said the guy never opened up to teammates etc…

    • Baseball Beer Burritos In That Order - Apr 2, 2012 at 3:43 AM

      Baseball is a very simple game, and beautiful in spite of and because of its limitations.
      Every pitch is a singular act, and something permanent. It is followed by a succession of events that ends with a variety of endings, nearly limitless in their ability to amaze.

      That has been enough for me to love this game for my entire life. I don’t need or want to see a man who has a family and a career ahead of him get hurt because of some unwritten rule of the game. Football fans are the worst on earth because they have a sport that is proven to cause long-term degenerative damage and they celebrate that brutishness, and I would rather watch golf than watch a sport that thinks that kind of senseless celebration of violence is conscionable.

      • paperlions - Apr 2, 2012 at 7:47 AM

        Baseball fans are no different. They celebrate every aspect of brutishness that can be justified in baseball: throwing at hitters, running over catchers, taking out a guy on a possible double play….somehow most people don’t understand that playing hard is not the same as a dangerous and unnecessary play.

  10. personalspaceinvader - Apr 1, 2012 at 10:03 PM

    If he wants to hit Tulo because Tulo hurt Cabrera sliding into 2nd? Fine. If he wants to hit Tulo because he took a while to run the bases after hitting a homerun? Okay. But he hits Tulo because Tulo told the media that Ubaldo should stop acting like such an (expletive)? Come on.

  11. jelatin18 - Apr 1, 2012 at 10:14 PM

    If Jimenez still had his fastball Tulo might have had something to worry about.

  12. pandebailey - Apr 1, 2012 at 10:44 PM

    Sorry to sound old, but baseball has changed. In the best days of baseball, pitchers didn’t hit Mantle, Mays, Williams or DiMaggio….and not because they didn’t throw at them. Players used to go to the plate ready to move back or drop down from inside pitches, not step into them and then complain about getting hit.

    Part of hitting was being ready for brush back pitches and if you got hit, much of it was your fault……

    • paperlions - Apr 2, 2012 at 7:54 AM

      Agree 100%. The umpires need to start giving 1B only when a guy tried to get out of the way and was hit anyway….if you lean over the plate and get hit by a possible strike….you are not supposed to get a base….just like blocking any base without the ball is illegal or running over a fielder who is not in the baseball is illegal…those are all rules on the books and baseball would be a better game if they started enforcing them again.

      • paperlions - Apr 2, 2012 at 8:42 AM

        *basepath not baseball

  13. billb09 - Apr 2, 2012 at 12:02 AM

    If you have watched baseball through out the 60’s and 70’s you would know that big hitters Mays, Arron etc. did not dig in at the plate if Bob Gibson was pitching. Mays himself in an interview said ” I dug in at the plate, look up and saw Gibson quickly called for time and filled in the box”.
    The game is played this way this is not kids playing but men and if pitchers get hit hard they become unemployed and unlike us these guys can hit, so yes messages are sent. The unwritten rule is you do not throw at a players head. For everything else we have ice for that.
    As far as the modern day nonsense, we as a society are failing our teachers no longer mark wit red pens because it is to upsetting to the student. Please people why is this country ranked 19th in the world in ENGLISH? Stop being soft. Those who can do, those who can’t had to do something else. It is no longer school as much as a babysitting service. It’s baseball for crying out loud don’t cry, there is no crying in baseball!!!!!!! Neanderthal? C’mon play chess and let the men play baseball.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Apr 2, 2012 at 12:38 AM

      Arron etc. did not dig in at the plate if Bob Gibson was pitching

      Good story, but a complete fabrication. Gibson hit 102 batters in his career, good for 76th on the all time list. Greg Maddux hit 35 more batters than he did, Jamie Moyer 42, Blelyven, Clemens, Wakefield, etc all more than Gibson.

      Or read this awesome post by Joe Posnanski:
      “Mr. Gibson,” this man says. “Oh, do I remember the way you pitched. I remember all those batters you hit. They were so scared of you.”

      Yes, Bob Gibson smiles hard. He shakes the man’s hand warmly, and he signs a baseball, and he says thank you in that voice that always surprises, that soft voice tinged with warmth. And it is only when the man has walked away and is long out of hearing range, that Bob Gibson asks — not angrily but with a sense of wonder — “Is that all I did? Hit batters? Is that really all they remember?”

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Apr 2, 2012 at 12:39 AM

        As far as the modern day nonsense, we as a society are failing our teachers no longer mark wit red pens because it is to upsetting to the student.

        That’s a lie too. My wife is a teacher and loves the crap out of using red pens.

        Please people why is this country ranked 19th in the world in ENGLISH?

        Umm, why should it be ranked higher?

      • paperlions - Apr 2, 2012 at 8:01 AM

        And for the record, it is not teachers that want to baby students, compared to 30 years ago, they are definitely babied or that are responsible for grade inflation. Parents don’t hold their children accountable for anything, and they don’t like others to do so either. Politicians pander to the bitching parents who pander to their children’s laziness and apathy. Teacher’s don’t have any support to demand much from their students, no support from parents, and no support from administrators. When no one else (not the student, parent, administrator, or lawmakers) is concerned with a child’s education (they are only concerned with appearances), being a teacher can be a lonely and frustrating chore.

    • spudchukar - Apr 2, 2012 at 12:50 AM

      Damn Church, beat me too it. I have come to Gibson’s defense before. No doubt he was a feared hurler, who wasn’t afraid to brush back hitters, but to augment your point here is a little more research.

      Gus Weyhing- all time champ, 260 hitters.
      Walter Johnson-the “Train” plunked 205 for 4th place.
      Ed Plank (past tense for Plunk)- Tied for 5th with 190.
      Cy Young- added 163
      Roger Clemens-Edges out fellow Texan, and drop and drive specialist with 159.
      Nolan Ryan-158
      Don Drysdale-Notorious Chin Music specialist only ranks18th with 154.
      Jamie Moyer-144 HBP, but maybe they should only count 1/2.
      Greg Maddux-Yep, the Professor, indented 137 for 29th.
      Orel Hersheiser-Mr. Nice Guy, let 117 get away for the 49th spot.
      David Cone-comes in at number 67 with 106.
      Bob Gibson-Rapid Robert, could only place 76th all-time with 102.

      Reputation has a way of overshadowing actual events. Just ask Billy the Kid.

      • spudchukar - Apr 2, 2012 at 12:51 AM

        Er, to it.

      • nolanwiffle - Apr 2, 2012 at 9:53 AM

        I thought “Rapid Robert” was Bob Feller.

      • ronmontague - Apr 2, 2012 at 10:09 AM

        Thanks for the stats spudchukr – I would also add that at one time, you could get a runner out by hitting him with a thrown baseball when he was not on a base. Obviously the baseballs were a little softer then (I hope). I wonder how many players filed their spikes? Ty Cobb reportedly used to do it within earshot of the other team…

    • stlouis1baseball - Apr 2, 2012 at 10:27 AM

      Dead on Bill! Finally….
      Regardless of what Church posts….or any link he shares…you are 100% correct in your example with #45. Players absolutely did NOT dig in, lean into the pitch, crowd the plater or otherwise show up Gibson because they absolutely knew the next time they stepped in the box they would be the receipient of some serious chin music. Was this “all” Gibson did? Specifically…hit people? Of course not. As for the low numbers of hit batters Church sites….I am calling bullshit. Not bullshit as in I don’t believe him. Bullshit as in the number is a direct result of guys being fully aware of WHO they were hitting against and giving #45 the absolute respect his DEMANDED.
      As for the “red ink”…Church took you literal. I fully understand your point though. No different than “peer passing” in our Public Schools. Gotta’ send Junior on so his self esteem isn’t stunted as a result of “peers” be promoted to the next grade whitout him. Our “competition ribbon” mentality is absolutely leading to the “pussification” of our kids.

    • konakoder - Apr 2, 2012 at 2:12 PM

      “Please people why is this country ranked 19th in the world in ENGLISH?”

      Are you being intentionally ironic? You didn’t even make it through your first clause without multiple mistakes (“If you have watched baseball through out … “). Grammar policing is low, but when someone throws directly at our school systems, they deserve a brushback. Just be thankful I didn’t aim for your “to upsetting.”

  14. sabatimus - Apr 2, 2012 at 12:52 AM

    Jimenez is a lying sack.

  15. sabatimus - Apr 2, 2012 at 12:56 AM

    Do us all a favor, firstandonly, and rupture your larynx.

    • Kevin S. - Apr 2, 2012 at 8:05 AM

      Wouldn’t stop him from foisting his tripe on us.

  16. losangelasbasketball - Apr 2, 2012 at 1:29 AM

    u hit my 4 batter, I will headhunt your 4 batter…
    u hit my 8 batter, I will headhunt your 4 batter…

  17. wonkypenguin - Apr 2, 2012 at 9:45 AM

    “He called me chicken!” – Ubaldo Jimenez

    “Dude, you gotta learn to control your emotions or you’re gonna find yourself unable to play guitar in 30 years.” – Marty McFly

  18. ronmontague - Apr 2, 2012 at 9:59 AM

    Sorry folks, but in football, baseball, wrestling, and basketball – all of which I played – we looked out for our teammates. We even policed within our team. One lineman that I played with excelled in chop blocking – a career ender if there ever was one. He practiced it in team scrimmages. One day he put two of his own teammates out of commission. We told him to stop. The coaches did nothing. When he did it again, we took care of him. He did not play again that year. When we took measures in baseball and basketball, we went for the legs everytime – pitching, running, etc. As mean as Don Drysdale (former Dodger pitcher) was, he did not head hunt. He brushed you back, high and tight inside but never at the head. Throwing at elbows? Sounds like Mr. U lost control going for the legs. He couldn’t throw high and tight with his lack of control else he might actually bean the guy.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Apr 2, 2012 at 10:11 AM

      It’s good you think that playing a “team sport” justifies hurting someone as “payment” for hurting someone else.

      • ronmontague - Apr 9, 2012 at 4:06 PM

        Glad you can write cuz you certainly cannot read. The idea was not to kill or even maim. If you reread my post, you will see that I was writing about how we DO police our own and take care of those who DO maim on purpose – even if it is our own teammates. It is when our coaches or the zebras/blind mice/commishes don’t do their jobs that we have to step in.

        Brushback pitches are NOT the same as intentional HBPs. They are warnings used with consummate skill and control. By the same coin, look at Ron Hunt and Craig Biggio. They used the HBP to get on base by crowding the plate.

        The Tulo incident is a far cry from the Ray Chapman beaning which was unintenional. Tulo and Ubaldo had a history of lack of respect. If Ubaldo was truly nuts, this would have been a true beaning. Tulo was yapping on his way to the plate.

  19. eightysixisback - Apr 2, 2012 at 3:52 PM

    i don’t agree with a lot of the things firstandonly said but i have to agree that players do expect their pitchers to defend them. I am 35 years old and a player/manager of an adult league team. I would not tell one of my pitchers to throw at the other team for no reason. As a pitcher for the last 20 years of my life at different levels, i can only remember two occasions when i threw at someone intentionally and both times it was to stand up for my teammates.
    It is part of the game and believe me it was expected of me at the time. (i wont be in that situation again because i don’t throw hard enough to make it hurt anymore) As i said i would never tell one of my pitchers to throw at someone else for just about any other reason and would in fact bench a guy immediately if he did, however if an opposing pitcher hits one of our guys on purpose, one of their guys is getting drilled. The guys on the team expect it and whether it actually changes anything or not it is definitely symbolic of standing up for your teammates.
    I am not going to insult anyone who disagrees with me but i grew up learning the game from my grandfather who played for the reds and my father who continues to be a pitching coach at the college level and i was taught that it is part of the game. I, myself have been playing at different levels for 23 years now and i would say the majority of the teammates i have had would agree with me.

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