Comments on: Matt Cain and the Giants agree to $112.5 million extension

By: aerodeo

aerodeo — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 16:52:56 +0000

I think seeingwhatsticks was being a bit sarcastic and poking fun at the consistently pro Phillies slant being discussed here.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 14:19:22 +0000

That may be….the worst thing for the Cardinals signing resigning Pujols, and perhaps Wainwright….other teams mega-TV deals.

By: whosgotitbetter

whosgotitbetter — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 12:33:11 +0000

@seeingwhatsticks
The Phillies dont even have the best pitching staff assembled this year, so how can they have the best pitching staff ever assembled?

By: bbk1000

bbk1000 — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:20:19 +0000

The Giants should have kept Dusty as their manager, Cain’s arm would have fallen off years ago and they would not be forced to give him this money.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 09:47:53 +0000

Actually I’m valuing Hamels in relation to Cain based on their performances. Hamels has a better K’s to Walks ration and better ERA+ a lower WHIP and more overall K’s. And yes he is a lefty. BTW, all of his numbers are for the most part while pitching in a hitters ballpark. As for the difference in their ages it’s virtually insignificant Cain is less the 1 year younger than Hamels and both will be or turn 29 at some point during for 2013 season.

But as I like to say everyone has a right to their opinion.

By: wj4122

wj4122 — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 05:40:22 +0000

Hammels loves this it always good for the bar to be raised for elite players…..for them at least! All I know is that whoever doesn’t sign there quality players before free agency the dodgers are going to eat them up! But kasten won’t make a stupid deal! Great day for the giants!!

By: phillyhatesyou

phillyhatesyou — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 03:00:55 +0000

dont know the numbers but hamels has pitched his entire career in a hitter friendly park whereas cain has pitched his whole career in a pitcher friendly park. too lazy to look up home/road splits but i’d have to say that goes into consideration. hamels probably has better overall stuff but cain certainly earned every penny of this contract

By: phillyhatesyou

phillyhatesyou — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 02:48:29 +0000

pretty sure oakland isn’t taking up much of the market out in the bay area

By: seeingwhatsticks

seeingwhatsticks — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 02:33:16 +0000

You’re insane. If you look at the numbers for Cain and Hamels they’re nearly identical, and Cain is actually younger. Contrary to what you just said Hamels is not a better pitcher and the fact that he’s a lefty, as evidenced by his stats, hasn’t given him a huge advantage over Cain in terms of actual performance. Remember, we’re not talking about projecting prospects here in which case being a lefty is a more valuable commodity: these are experienced MLB players with track records.

I don’t understand where this notion comes from that Hamels should be able to command significantly more than what Cain got, unless you’re overvaluing him based on the fact that THE PHILLIES HAVE THE GREATEST PITCHING STAFF EVER ASSEMBLED and Hamels was part of it.

By: Gamera the Brave

Gamera the Brave — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 02:25:09 +0000

I love that 7 of the 25 comments were Phillies-related!

Oh, and nice work Sabes!

By: micker716

micker716 — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 01:33:27 +0000

Why not. Not his money.

By: okwhitefalcon

okwhitefalcon — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 00:55:48 +0000

I think Strauss is referring more to the timing of Howard’s deal as it pertained to Albert.

Strauss has long believed the Cards sat on their hands regarding extending AP and could have had a deal done with him before the Phils did their deal with Howard.

And I agree with you, teams don’t base their valuations on bad deals.

Unfortunately, agents do.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Tue, 03 Apr 2012 00:08:42 +0000

Ryan Howard’s extension did nothing for Pujols. Zero, zip, nothing. Howard’s extension didn’t make Pujols better or teams bid more for him….for the 12 billionth time…teams don’t base their valuation of players on obviously horrible deals.

The Cain deal is not horrible, it will also have pretty much nothing to do with Wainwrights next contract as Cain got about what a pitcher his age should…indeed, the relatively short duration of the deal is a good thing.

By: okwhitefalcon

okwhitefalcon — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:49:57 +0000

Grienke will hit the market as well I believe..

By: bigdicktater

bigdicktater — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:11:15 +0000

Thank you Giants, thank you very much!

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:56:57 +0000

Got to say if I’m the Phillies management I’m not feeling real good right about now. If Halladay’s 2014 option vest and they want to re-sign Hamels at the “market” price they could be looking at a payroll for just 3 pitchers (Halladay, Lee and Hamels) of over $65MM per year. Add in Howard’s $25MM, Papelbon’s $12MM and Rollins $11MM and just those 6 players come to over $113MM before any incentives. That’s a pretty good chunk of change even if you’re the Yankees with their revenue stream.

By: Lukehart80

Lukehart80 — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:53:02 +0000

It doesn’t really change your basic point that he’s deserving of a big contract, but Cain was pitching in single-A in 2003. He has pitched at least 190 innings every season since 2006.

By: uyf1950

uyf1950 — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:34:21 +0000

In my opinion the Phillies re-signing Hamels just got harder. If I’m Hamels and his agent I’m looking at a MINIMUM of 6 years/$140MM guaranteed and a possible 7 year vesting. They both are still very young, except Hamels is a better pitcher and a lefty.

By: Reflex

Reflex — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:33:40 +0000

Is Hamels the only elite guy left in free agency after this season? This would seem to derail the plans of teams planning to add pitching via free agency next year…

By: areyesrn

areyesrn — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:13:35 +0000

most definitely deserves it…I just see the dude confound the hitters each and every time

By: okwhitefalcon

okwhitefalcon — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 20:59:23 +0000

As STL beat writer Joe Strauss so aptly put regarding the trickle down of Cain’s deal on Adam Wainwright:

“Matt Cain’s extension could do for Waino’ what Ryan Howard’s extension did for El Hombre. In other words, #NoBueno for Cards.”

If Waino proves healthy it may behoove thenCards ownership to get out in front of this one much like
the Reds did with Votto today because all bets are off once they hit FA..

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 20:29:02 +0000

wow formatting fail, and why the F did that first link appear?

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 20:28:24 +0000

http://qctimes.com/lifestyles/announcements/michelle-smyth-q-c-writer-was-inspired-by-her-life/article_b1a1876c-7781-11e1-be41-001871e3ce6c.html

Went out with the old CBA. Here’s one link I found (can’t find the one someone tweeted over the last few days though).

http://www.philliesnetwork.com/?p=6182

Last season, the Boston Red Sox chose to announce an extension with Adrian Gonzalez in April of last season – after Opening Day – but had finalized the terms of the deal and agreed months before in an effort to avoid the luxury tax. That could be the case with Hamels.

However, baseball sources say that the luxury tax penalty doesn’t work that way anymore under the new CBA, so the Phillies could go about their business as is. But perhaps with a new system in place, the Phillies are simply waiting for Opening Day before they announce a nice long-term deal for Hamels.

By: sdelmonte

sdelmonte — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 20:28:06 +0000

And thus there are fans all over the place who are disappointed. Especially in the Bronx (not that Cashman was necessarily thinking of chasing Cain) and Boston (where I think they would have moved the sun to get him).

By: phillyphever

phillyphever — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 19:57:43 +0000

From what I read, they might have a deal in place, but they’re waiting for the season to start to sign because of luxury tax issues.

By: APBA Guy

APBA Guy — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 19:51:32 +0000

I agree with SMC above, this isn’t Zito, whose numbers were trending in the wrong direction when he was signed by SF.

Don’t forget after 2014, SF will have extra $$$ because their stadium will be paid off. They’ll get even more if they can run Oakland out of town and have the entire market to themselves.

My guess, and it’s only a guess, is there is significant deferred money in at least the first couple of year’s of Cain’s deal.

But Cain’s shown he’s worth the money with impressive durability and reliability.

By: rastaraider

rastaraider — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 19:50:53 +0000

F! Yes!!

By: paperlions

paperlions — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 19:40:27 +0000

I think both parties (Hamels and Phils) probably already know that the number will be in this range…somewhere between $22-25M/year….the question seems to be if they can agree on the number of years….the team that throws out the most years will be the one that probably gets him.

By: smcgaels1997

smcgaels1997 — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 19:37:03 +0000

Matt Cain has been their workhorse since 2003…he deserved this, and this isn’t the Zito deal..no doubt if he hit free agency he would have gotten more $$.

By: phillyfan4ever

phillyfan4ever — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 19:35:45 +0000

They had to get this deal done or they would have watched him shoot down to LA