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Tweet of the Day: Brandon McCarthy takes on the kiss cam

Apr 19, 2012, 8:50 AM EDT

Kiss Cam

I’ve spent a lot of virtual ink talking about the “kiss cam” at ballparks and arenas and the like. I hate it for two reasons: first, it’s kind of stupid. Second — and way more importantly to me – it’s so often employed as a means of spreading casual homophobia. The operator thinks it’s cute to put it on two guys — presumably heterosexual guys — in order to get hoots and hollers from the crowd and to sow homphobic discomfort.

They apparently did it last night at Angels Stadium, because A’s pitcher Brandon McCarty took notice:

 

Damn straight.

Go back to the thread on gay ballplayers yesterday and revisit the comments about how homophobia is still more or less accepted in our culture. If you doubt it, ask yourself how a publicly funded and operated ballpark can still get away with doing a thing, the sole purpose of which is to make tens of thousands of people laugh at the possibility that two men might actually want to kiss. And which encourages straight people to either be humiliated or to pretend to be the part of a minority and to try to act how they think that minority acts in comically exaggerated ways.

It’s pathetic, and I wish ballparks would cut it the hell out.

  1. charlutes - Apr 19, 2012 at 9:03 AM

    Good call, never thought about it at all but you’re right. mostly its refreshing to hear such a thoughtful comment from a darn good pitcher. Almost makes me forget. that Roger the congress dodger exists.

    • Kevin S. - Apr 19, 2012 at 9:11 AM

      While’ll I’m all for slamming Clemens for being a scumbag, he pretty much did the exact opposite of dodging Congress. They tried to give him an out and he said “No, I will lie under oath before you, dammit!”

      Agree on McCarthy, though – one of my favorite players in the league, precisely because this thoughtfulness is is typical of him.

      • Kevin S. - Apr 19, 2012 at 9:13 AM

        Okay, I have no idea where *while’ll* came from. Sorry guys.

  2. mattintoledo - Apr 19, 2012 at 9:10 AM

    I hate the “Look, it’s on two guys, ha ha” thing too. I’ve told guys I’ve been at games with before that if that ever happens, I think it is our moral responsibility to confidently and without any evident hesitation or irony, kiss each other.

    But I did see something genuinely funny on a Kiss Cam once. They put the camera on a couple and the guy, seeing he was on the jumbotron, stood up to go “Wooo!” At the same time, his wife leaned over for a smooch. She glanced at the screen while she leaned over and recoiled in embarrassement when she noticed she was about to kiss his crotch. The husband, seeing all this unfold, gives the camera two big thumbs up. Family day at the park!

    • kopy - Apr 19, 2012 at 9:32 AM

      I saw the cam once where a man actually pushed a woman’s head down toward his lap and out of frame when she leaned in to kiss. They cut away pretty quick.

      • mncharm - Apr 19, 2012 at 2:35 PM

        I must know if this was the Twins home opener several years ago against the White Sox. Friday night, 70 degrees, sunny — so we all went to the Dome, obv. Felt more like a Vikings game; people were ROCKED. I do believe Kyle Lohse was on the mound that night and was beaten like a mule.

        That exact thing happened at the game — collective gasp from the 50,000 in attendance. Too funny.

        Introduced my buddy to his future wife that night. Vaguely recall cabbing home later that evening. Good times.

      • kopy - Apr 19, 2012 at 2:46 PM

        It likely was. I’m a Twins fan that has attended a lot of games over the years, including a handful of home openers. It wouldn’t be surprising, since I doubt it happens much. Unless it was done by a copycat Minnesotan that witnessed the first and still appreciated the hilariousness later in the season.

      • mncharm - Apr 19, 2012 at 3:00 PM

        Awesome.

        Go Twins. Love that we can beat the Yanks…now that we suck. Nice to have M&M healthy again, at least.

      • evan5 - Apr 19, 2012 at 4:33 PM

        I was at a basketball game once when they put the kiss cam on a man and woman. The woman started laughing hysterically and then pointed at the guy and mouthed “That’s my dad!” to the camera.

  3. urdoingitwrongreds - Apr 19, 2012 at 9:14 AM

    I thought they were always just trying to get brothers and sisters to kiss.

  4. Matt D. - Apr 19, 2012 at 9:16 AM

    It’s nice to see a comment like that coming from a player. I feel like that’s the kind of thing you would never see happen even a few years ago.

    I was once at a Rangers-Yankees game in Arlington where they put A-Rod and another Yankee (Andy Phillips, I think) on the Kiss Cam. The actually handled it pretty well (A-Rod noticed before Andy, put an arm around his neck, and planted one on his temple, much to his surprise), but it was still awkward and could have been much more so. Especially in Texas. It definitely made me a touch uncomfortable.

  5. hughhansen - Apr 19, 2012 at 9:21 AM

    Chock up another good thing about living in NY. No homophobic end to the Kiss Cam. It’s just stupid here (which doesn’t really distinguish it from the other manufactured ballpark amusements).

    • hughhansen - Apr 19, 2012 at 9:23 AM

      Chalk, rather.

  6. professorpanacea - Apr 19, 2012 at 9:21 AM

    While I agree with Craig’s general sentiment, you all realize that this is comedian Russell Brand and actor/comedian Jonah Hill? Basically, they’re always doing homophobic comedy and apparently the operator noticed them in the crowd and instigated what was all-too-probable to occur.

    • Craig Calcaterra - Apr 19, 2012 at 9:24 AM

      That’s an old photo from a post from last year. The instance McCarthy was referring to was presumably a couple of regular dudes last night, as it usually is.

      • fivetoolmike - Apr 19, 2012 at 10:48 AM

        In an interaction with someone on Twitter he clarified that the subject of the cam was two of his teammates.

      • professorpanacea - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:38 AM

        Ah, my apologies for a quick look. Cheers!

  7. leerosenthall - Apr 19, 2012 at 9:28 AM

    As the parent of a gay kid, I want to publicly thank Brandon McCarthy for speaking out. Imagine if MLB actually made *everybody* welcome at ballgames.

    That aside, I think Kissing Cams are just another crude & tacky development in an extended line of them, but they fit right in with the long history of “Hot Pants Patrols,” “ball girls” with their derrieres hanging out, and now (apparently) bikini-clad performers at Major League Baseball games. What next, Dancing With the Stars during the seventh inning stretch?

    • badmamainphilliesjamas - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:25 AM

      Don’t give them any ideas.

  8. cosanostra71 - Apr 19, 2012 at 9:58 AM

    who cares? You’ve been a real roll lately Craig- try and remember this is a baseball blog, not a political one.

    • Craig Calcaterra - Apr 19, 2012 at 10:10 AM

      As the creator and lead writer of this blog, I think I’ll define what it is about thank you very much. And if you have been paying attention to it since its launch three years ago — and my amateur blogging for the two years which preceded that — you’d know that I’ve been writing about this sort of thing ever since I began.

      That aside, there are anywhere between 25 and 40 posts a day on this blog. If you don’t like a couple a week dealing with this sort of stuff, you may show yourself the door.

      • cosanostra71 - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:26 AM

        If I’m looking for politics and social commentary, I’ll go to nbc.com. If I’m looking for baseball, I’ll go to nbcsports.com. I’m sure your bosses would agree, if you’re looking to make social commentary, why don’t you ask them if you can write for their editorial pages?

      • cosanostra71 - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:27 AM

        I come to hardballtalk to read about baseball, not whiny bleeding heart liberal causes.

      • Craig Calcaterra - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:30 AM

        You’re going to be shocked by this, but my bosses at NBC actually knew what kind of writer I was before they hired me. And part of the reason they hired me was precisely because I talk about this stuff in addition to pure on-the-field topics. Crazy, I know.

      • The Common Man - Apr 19, 2012 at 1:06 PM

        I come here solely for the bleeding heart liberal causes and am really annoyed at all the baseball around here.

        Craig, stop trying to inject baseball into a political comment made by a baseball player.

      • phillyphreak - Apr 19, 2012 at 2:09 PM

        Interestingly, when I go to nbc.com all I see is the TV lineup for the evening. Not one ounce of politics….jerks.

    • Matt D. - Apr 19, 2012 at 10:11 AM

      And as we all know, political issues and baseball issues never instersect.

    • nightman13 - Apr 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM

      I believe the Kiss Cam occurs in BASEBALL stadiums and the Tweet discussed was from a BASEBALL player. I know “connect the dots” can be a very difficult game for some people, but this one seems pretty simple.

    • Utley's Hair - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:18 PM

      I don’t know how many times Craig has gone on record stating that this is not just a baseball blog, but just about every post on here has some connection to baseball. This post deals with a moronic tradition at baseball parks that ostracizes an entire segment of the population. Craig has every right to post this and similar stories on the blog, not least because he runs the damn blog. If you don’t like the content on the blog, move along, there is nothing for you to see here. The title of the post made it pretty clear what the topic was. Need you be reminded again about the whole unnecessary clicking, reading, signing in and commenting on posts you don’t like?

      • cosanostra71 - Apr 19, 2012 at 2:38 PM

        1. I clearly knew what the post was before I opened it. I opened it specifically to mention how these types of posts ruin the overall experience of what is a very good blog when it sticks to baseball.

        2. I don’t see how this is offensive at all, but then again I don’t spend my entire life looking for ways to be offended like bleeding heart liberals seem to do.

      • brainmatter02 - Apr 19, 2012 at 2:47 PM

        Cosa- you seem to be pretty offended by people getting offended, bro

      • The Common Man - Apr 19, 2012 at 10:10 PM

        It may ruin the experience for you, but it enhances it for the vast majority of us. So…yeah, I don’t have a lot sympathy for you, dude.

    • APBA Guy - Apr 19, 2012 at 4:11 PM

      I think all of us Shysterball vets will volunteer to help you find the nearest exit.

  9. 40easter - Apr 19, 2012 at 10:33 AM

    Is that Jackie Chan in the background?

    • phukyouk - Apr 19, 2012 at 10:48 AM

      why yes… yes it is… good catch

      • 40easter - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:54 AM

        Sweet validation!…I’m taking the rest of the day off.

  10. stex52 - Apr 19, 2012 at 10:49 AM

    I never really thought about it as homophobic. I find it sufficiently tacky and humiliating when limited to heterosexuals alone. Do away with it.

  11. brainmatter02 - Apr 19, 2012 at 10:51 AM

    It’s sad to see that even bringing up gay people and discussing issues regarding sexuality is instantly branded as an attempt to further a political agenda, as if the lives of gay people don’t exist outside of some abstract social power struggle. Do we really make you people that uncomfortable?

    I think stuff like prejudice has 2 forms: ignorance or hatred. I view this not as an example of people aiming to hurt, but as an opportunity to explain why it’s silly and in bad taste to people who probably just don’t know any better or think nothing of it. Hopefully when people more people like Brandon talk about it instead of just brushing it off things will change.

    • Matt D. - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:17 AM

      Some of the language that inevitably ends up being used in conversations about gay people and gay rights issues can be incredible. Like you said, people bring up political agendas. They also talk about “lifestyle choices” as if that’s what being gay is, and even some people who think they’re being supportive talk about how “the bedroom” is no one else’s business, as if being gay is about nothing but sex. You’re right that discomfort is exactly the problem.

      That’s why comments like Brandon’s are important. Awareness is the really the only way to make things change. I’ve seen it happen so often in my own life. My husband and I have a friend who used to run around using “gay” as an insult. She’s an awesome person, but she had just never stopped to think about what she was saying. I called her on it, and she protested at first, but then she thought about it and she stopped.

      • brainmatter02 - Apr 19, 2012 at 1:25 PM

        Pretty much. The last decade has seen lgbt visibility skyrocket which has led to people coming out at younger and younger ages. It has been shown that when people actually know others who are gay they tend to be less homophobic and more sensitive to the community in general.

        The Marriage Equality Act passed here in New York because some very wealthy and influential Republican donors had gay relatives.

  12. brainmatter02 - Apr 19, 2012 at 10:51 AM

    It’s sad to see that even bringing up gay people and discussing issues regarding sexuality is instantly branded as an attempt to further a political agenda, as if the lives of gay people don’t exist outside of some abstract social power struggle. Do we really make you people that uncomfortable?

    I think stuff like prejudice has 2 forms: ignorance or hatred. I view this not as an example of people aiming to hurt, but as an opportunity to explain why it’s silly and in bad taste to people who probably just don’t know any better or think nothing of it. Hopefully when more people like Brandon talk about it instead of just brushing it off things will change.

    • skeleteeth - Apr 19, 2012 at 10:56 AM

      Worth posting twice.

      • brainmatter02 - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:00 AM

        Shit. Damn sausage fingers on my phone. Wish I could delete one.

      • Kevin S. - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:09 AM

        I have no idea if skeleteeth was just being obnoious or not, but it really was worth posting twice.

      • skeleteeth - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:18 AM

        I, for once, was being sincere.

  13. a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:29 AM

    Since when did the gays get so sensitive? It seems like every other thing sets them off nowadays. Listen…they’re making a sexual choice. If you had a buddy that dated fat girls, you’d tease him about it. If you had a buddy that dated girls half his age (assuming they were >18), you’d tease him about it. If you had a buddy that dated cougars, you’d tease him about it. Light ribbing about who you’re attracted to is a way of life. Toughen up.

    • Kevin S. - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM

      Listen… no they’re not making a sexual choice. And speaking as a guy currently dating a cougar, the Mrs. Robinson teasing I take is absolutely nothing compared to the animus spewed at LGBT. Grow up.

    • Matt D. - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:40 AM

      “Light ribbing”? You can’t be serious.

      • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:53 PM

        None of the situations that “churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged” describes is remotely close to being put on the video board at a professional baseball game. Many, many, many of the commentators here are missing the point. Fortunately, some of them appear to be getting it. Our society improves when we all lighten up. Our society regresses when we yell at each other because our feelings are hurt over minor inconveniences and casual teasing. Save outrage for major issues.

    • brainmatter02 - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:43 AM

      Probably during the 20 years spent deep in the closet. Having to deal with the feeling of shame and fear because of the “sexual choice” that I “made” (how stupid of me to check the “gay” box on that lifestyle form we all filled out after birth). Having to make sure that I walked and talked the right way, to avoid the abuse that more affeminate men received in school. Having to avoid eye contact with other guys and watch everything I say as not to let the secret slip. Growing up in a world where very single movie, song or story involved a man and a woman, and legislation is introduced to prevent the use of the word “gay” in schools. Having absolutely no one to talk to about all of it and taking out my anger in destructive ways.

      That’s probably when I became so sensitive

      • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:50 AM

        I’m sincerely very sorry that you were treated like that. But, people that act differently are ALWAYS teased. However….people don’t get up in arms over the “nerd” “slutty girl” “dumb blonde” “dumb hillbilly” “vapid yuppie” etc. stereotypes that are constantly portrayed in society. Everyone’s different….it’s all good…..and we should all be allowed to have a laugh about our differences. Society being comfortable enough to have a little giggle over your lifestyle IS equality.

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:42 PM

        Everyone’s different….it’s all good…..and we should all be allowed to have a laugh about our differences. Society being comfortable enough to have a little giggle over your lifestyle IS equality.

        When’s the last time someone killed themselves because they were teased for being slutty? [Tyler Clementi] Or when’s the last time that someone killed a classmate because their classmate was fat? [Matthew Shepard] Or when’s the last time an athlete told a hillbilly teammate that they should keep their ideas to themselves because it wouldn’t be appreciated in a locker room [Tim Hardaway controversy]?

        It’s an entirely new level of teasing.

      • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:55 PM

        None of the situations that “churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged” describes is remotely close to being put on the video board at a professional baseball game. Many, many, many of the commentators here are missing the point. Fortunately, some of them appear to be getting it. Our society improves when we all lighten up. Our society regresses when we yell at each other because our feelings are hurt over minor inconveniences and casual teasing. Save outrage for major issues.

      • Utley's Hair - Apr 19, 2012 at 1:05 PM

        Being shown on the board leads to people around the affected couple to pressure them into doing something that a lot of people still look on with scorn. Then when they do, they’ll inevitably be mocked and ridiculed for doing that which is natural to them.

        You refuse to see that actions have consequences, though you say that actions are what make the difference.

    • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:44 AM

      It is a choice……no such thing as a gay gene. MULTIPLE attempts to locate it have failed. And I can be serious. Teasing about who you’re attracted to IS equality. I have absolutely, positively no problems with gays. But the recent (last two years or so) rhetoric regarding their treatment is society borders on ridiculous. Once you leave high school, no reasonable person will ever seriously harass you about being gay. 90% of society could care less…..and the other 10% are at church all day so you probably won’t run into them.

      • skeleteeth - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:51 AM

        There is too. It’s right next to the straight gene!

      • Matt D. - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:53 AM

        “Teasing” is such a ludicrous way to describe the way gay people are treated in this country. We can’t marry in the vast majority of the country, and even if you’re lucky enough to live in a marriage equality state, the federal government still won’t recognize your marriage. Kids are bullied all the time, and some commit suicide because they can’t take it. Gay people routinely face discrimination in the workplace. People stare at me when I hold my husband’s hand in public. I’ve had “faggot” screamed at me from passing cars. I’ve been physically threatened. Other people fare much worse and suffer physical violence. I’m just getting started. This isn’t teasing. And people like you are part of the problem.

      • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:58 AM

        All of the situations you describe are awful and have no place in society. Being shown on the video board at a baseball game is not “in the same ballpark” (so to speak).

      • brainmatter02 - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:54 AM

        Just answer me this: when I tell you, as a gay person, that it is absolutely not a choice, I knew I was attracted to men and not women before I even knew what gay is, are you still going to say that I’m wrong and you for some reason know the intricacies of alternative human sexuality without actually experiencing it?

      • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:00 PM

        Any act is a choice. It is impossible to commit any act without making the choice to do so.

        I am heterosexual. I make a choice to have sex with some girls and not with others. I sometimes find myself attracted to other women….but I make the choice to stay faithful to my girlfriend. It’s a choice.

      • skeleteeth - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:08 PM

        Is being attracted to women in general a choice you are making? So you just simply choose not to sleep with men?

      • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:15 PM

        I choose women over men because I have a natural attraction to women. And gay men have an attraction to men obviously. What causes it is a complete mystery (likely society or perhaps upbringing but definitely not genes). BUT, the physical act of having sex (acting on the attraction) is a choice.

        Just to be clear….I am sincerely all for gay rights. But, I’m equally sincere in believing that bitching about stuff like being put on a video board HURTS the cause. Again….teasing people for their actions is a part of life. Literally every person on earth has their feelings hurt as times because someone points out something embarrassing (you walk funny, you chew with your mouth open, you spit when you talk, etc.)…..as a society, we’ll all be much better off when everyone just accepts that and can laugh at themselves over minor incidents (like appearing on the video board at a baseball game).

      • Matt D. - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:10 PM

        But if you never had sex with any girl at all, you’d still be heterosexual. It’s about attraction, not the actual deed.

      • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:20 PM

        I think that point is probably debatable. But that’s not really the point…..the point is that people open themselves up for being teased via their actions.

      • 18thstreet - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:16 PM

        You know what’s a choice? Bigotry.

        No one’s born that way.

      • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:21 PM

        I think my comments (when read fully and understood fully) make it pretty clear that I’m not a bigot. Just a thinking human being that doesn’t think it’s as simple as: if you tease me, you must hate me.

      • Utley's Hair - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:32 PM

        You “choose” women because you have a “natural” attraction to them. The whole “natural attraction” part is what obliterates your asinine assertion of it being a choice. Gays and lesbians have a natural attraction to members of their own gender.

    • skeleteeth - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:49 AM

      I think once people come to grips with the fact that choice has nothing to do with it they won’t dismiss the issue as simply someones feelings being hurt.

      • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 11:55 AM

        Choice does have something to do with it. Teasing people because they are ugly, bald, mentally handicapped, etc. is NOT okay because the person has no control over that. A person that acts a certain way (or conducts himself in a certain way) is open to satire for the way they act…..because we are ALL open to being teased for how we act.

      • 18thstreet - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:21 PM

        People have a choice to not be, say, Catholic, and we STILL say it’s not okay to discriminate on that basis. That’s a good thing, too.

        The science is becoming pretty damn clear, that sexual orientation is innate. But those who believe it to be a choice aren’t following that argument to the end. If it’s okay to discriminate against things that are choices, then we need to repeal most religious protections.

      • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:30 PM

        I hope that 18thstreet is not understanding me to be endorsing discrimination. Discrimination (i.e. refusing to allow gays into ballparks) is completely unacceptable just as religious discrimination is unacceptable. I’m saying that homosexuals detract from their valid arguments (they should be allowed to get married) by acting as if a great injustice has been done every time something like this happens (kiss cam shenanigans, an effeminate gay character on a tv show, etc.). Boiled down message: quit being so sensitive.

        Also, “the science is becoming pretty damn clear” is fairly vague. Anything you can link to to back that up? SPOILER ALERT: there isn’t.

      • 18thstreet - Apr 19, 2012 at 1:53 PM

        http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

        “There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; MOST PEOPLE EXPERIENCE LITTLE OR NO SENSE OF CHOICE ABOUT THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION” (emphasis added).

      • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 5:35 PM

        18thstreet—

        The article you cite says they EXPERIENCE LITTLE OR NO SENSE OF CHOICE…..it does not say that they do not have a choice. Many people pick up habits from their environment and adopt that habit via choice without realizing that they made a choice.

    • Utley's Hair - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:28 PM

      You’re an idiot if you think being gay is a choice…or a disease…or a political platfor…or a reason to ostracize a segment of the population, whether dealing with marriage, rights or whatever else you can think of And maybe your “buddies” need to find a better friend than one who “teases”—which is also known as mocking, by the way—them about who they date. You’re statement makes you sound like a homophobic moron.

      • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:37 PM

        I think some people (probably not all) can see the irony in your hopping on here, calling names and making zero valid points, as a misguided method of defending homosexuals. But I won’t get upset with you about it because I realize that disagreeing with me does not necessarily mean you are wrong or that you hate me. And because I’m a grown up that doesn’t run to the corner to cry (or run to my twitter to b!tch) every time that someone makes fun of me.

      • Utley's Hair - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:52 PM

        A misguided attempt at defending a persecuted segment of the population? Right. You just confirmed the homophobic part of the description. The fact that you believe it’s a choice to be gay confirms the moron part.

        By the way, I have been commenting here since it was called Circling the Bases, so I did not just “hop” on here to defend homosexuals from your attacks on them. I have a long record on here, moron. Why don’t you just go back to Westboro Baptist and cry to Fred about how the gays are taking over HBT, also.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:31 PM

      Listen…they’re making a sexual choice

      If it’s a choice, tell me when you made a choice to start liking members of the opposite sex? Or is only gays that make a choice?

      I know for me, I basically woke up one day and realized how awesome breasts were and I was hooked. There was no “choice”…

      • a125125125 - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:46 PM

        ACTING on the natural attraction is the choice. You can not act without a choice. It’s logically impossible. And just because it’s a choice doesn’t mean that homosexuals don’t deserve rights….they absolutely do.

        SO: for the last time: attraction = natural // having sex = choice.
        Building on that….My premise is that people should be open to being teased about their actions thus it’s okay for gays to “endure” kiss cam teasing//being portrayed as effeminate on tv, etc. BUT not okay to yell curse words at gays, call them offensive names, physically assault them, etc. Agree or disagree with that if you like. But, if you disagree with the first paragraph of this comment, you’re going to run into lots of opposition (including the Supreme Court).

      • The Common Man - Apr 19, 2012 at 1:29 PM

        I get the distinction you’re trying to make, a125125125, between attraction and acting on attraction (though I’d argue that it’s irrational to expect people to not act on their natural sexual attractions for their entire lives, and therefore the attraction and the act are effectively coupled to one another).

        That said, there’s no denying that what hundreds of thousands of gay people experience in schools, at work, and on the streets in this country is not teasing, but harassment and (in some cases) terrorism. And a publicly supported organization, with the tacit support of 30,000 local chuckling citizens, suggesting that it’s ok to mock that behavior only reinforces the bigoted notion that it’s ok to continue laughing at and harassing people who are openly, closeted, or just suspected of being gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered, as though there’s something inherently funny or wrong about that. It’s a reflection of the larger societal homophobia, and should be done away with.

      • skeleteeth - Apr 19, 2012 at 1:41 PM

        Your argument would make sense if it was simply the act of kissing someone of the same sex that causes people to endure such brutal treatment at times, but it’s not. It’s persecution for something they have no control over. Driving drunk is a choice. Cheating on your spouse is a choice. Whether or not to express how you feel emotionally in a physical manner at a specific point in time is a choice for both gay and straight individuals, but we’re talking about the inherent right to do so without being treated differently based on orientation.

        I think I understand what your’re saying though and when it comes to PDA, gay or straight, yes there is something to poke fun at.

      • 18thstreet - Apr 19, 2012 at 1:49 PM

        What’s interesting to me about the choice argument is that I can literally not recall a time that I wasn’t attracted to women. I saw my first Playboy when I was REALLY young — 5 years old, kindergarten, neighbor’s house. And I was fascinated. As it happens, I have a daughter who is about to turn 5. If my parents are anything like me, there’s no way on earth that I was taught to be straight. It just doesn’t come up.

  14. paulydefense - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:04 PM

    The Kiss Cam is just a stupid idea in general.

  15. Baseball Beer Burritos In That Order - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:35 PM

    Before stlouiscards1 (or whatever his name is) shows up and says “blah blah Craig is on a crusade to make us all pussy liberals, real America, Don’t Tread On Me” I want to get this out of the way:

    You’re an idiot, and worse than that, you’re an idiot who thinks his political beliefs are rooted in knowledge and decency when they are instead rooted in willful ignorance and bigotry. I don’t like that you bash Craig, who is a kind and decent person, and I wish that you would find a rock to crawl under and never come out from under it. And the Cardinals suck.

  16. card0109 - Apr 19, 2012 at 12:57 PM

    I’ve always been a bit bothered that the only time it seems acceptable to put two men or two women kissing on the kiss cam is during the GLBT pride days that some parks hold. We’re all for equal rights, but is it really equal if we get singled out on a specific day of the regular season? I agree with the idea that the kiss cam is a dumb one. But if ball parks insist on having it as inter-inning entertainment, they should really strive to find and incorporate one GLBT couple each game, so people get more used to seeing it and don’t find it so hilarious, as Brandon McCarthy so nicely put it.

  17. dexterismyhero - Apr 19, 2012 at 1:20 PM

    Gezz lighten up people….BTW, that looks like Russell Brand and Newman from Seinfeld.

  18. opiedamus - Apr 19, 2012 at 1:29 PM

    I want to commend everyone for giving me a good laugh while eating my lunch. On one hand you have a person trying to say it’s okay to make fun of people, but not in a mean spirited way. Then, you have a host of others saying it’s not okay to tease someone by lobbing verbal bombs and name calling. It’s like saying you’re tolerant of other’s views as long as they agree with you.

    The commentor contradicts his stance that being gay is a choice by saying “attraction isn’t a choice, but performing the act of sexual intercourse is a choice.” As if you can only be gay if you engage in sexual intercourse?!?

    From my limited point of view:
    a) the cam is stupid. However, if we’re going to do away with this stupid idea, then we have to, first, get rid of the dumbest idea ever, the $7.50 16oz beers.
    b) All of you are friends with others who share your point of views. Be it okay to “tease” one another about how out of shape you’ve gotten or the dumb decision to burn the fire ants out of your yard, thereby having your neighbors call the fire department to put it out (I’m not saying it happened to me).
    OR if you and your friends sit around and cast dispersions on the people that engage in this type of teasing and how insensitive and morally wrong they are.

    c) One thing all of you have in common: at some point, somewhere, you’ve all uttered, “well, it could be worse. I could have red hair.”

    The Gingers are teased mercilessly, endure physical abuse, and generally looked down upon for being different. They are profiled as heavy drinkers, having volatile tempers, and being weaker mentally or athleticially. There is no race, creed, or sexual orientation that excludes this type of behavior. This abuse does not stop after high school and occurs on every single continent, in every single country….yes, even Ireland you bunch of rat bas….admit it, you all think every redhead must be from Ireland by lineage!

    Yet, all of you accept it and don’t think twice. I challenge all of your to never again allow a red head to become the victim of some ignorant friend of your’s. Stand up for all or stand up for none….

    Craig, how about you post something about nationalizing a “take a Ginger to work day” or something?!? Oh, and very good post, I’m sure you’ve gotten the hornets’ nest stirred up!

    • leerosenthall - Apr 19, 2012 at 3:55 PM

      Whenever someone casts asperions on “gingers” in my presence, I simply put them in their place by uttering three words …. Michael Jack Schmidt.

  19. mariner425 - Apr 19, 2012 at 2:33 PM

    I always find it amusing that people call being gay a choice. Like who in their right mind would choose to be something that subjects you to hate and violence.

  20. cbryan777 - Apr 19, 2012 at 2:34 PM

    Sorry Craig, but homosexuality will also be weird. To hate or discriminate against an individual because he/she is homosexual is utterly wrong but the act of homosexuality itself will also be unnatural, unbiblical and just plain weird.

    • mncharm - Apr 19, 2012 at 2:43 PM

      (Pssst: your post just identified you as the weird one, dude.)

    • Matt D. - Apr 19, 2012 at 2:56 PM

      You want to talk about what’s unbiblical? Do you have any money? Literally, do you have a single dollar to your name? Because if you do, you are living an unbiblical life. Christ said to give everything you have to the poor. Do you ever eat shellfish? Unbiblical. Pray in public? Unbiblical. Wear clothing from two different types of thread? Unbiblical (hard as it is to believe).

      It’s absurd. Show me someone who lives by EVERY DAMN WORD of the bible, and I’ll allow that person to lecture me about what’s unbiblical. Absurd.

      • card0109 - Apr 19, 2012 at 4:38 PM

        An awesome writer, A.J. Jacobs, tried and failed pretty miserably and wrote a book, A Year of Living Biblically. Absolutely hilarious.

      • Matt D. - Apr 20, 2012 at 7:43 AM

        I desperately want to read this. Thanks for mentioning!

    • brainmatter02 - Apr 19, 2012 at 3:27 PM

      lol I love this argument. Could you please give me a crash course on what defines natural? Unless you have access to a trans-dimensional portal filled with goat demons I’m pretty sure ever person, place and thing in the known universe is natural.

    • Kevin S. - Apr 19, 2012 at 5:03 PM

      Unnatural, huh?

      Homosexuality occurs in four hundred and fifty animal species.
      Homophobia only occurs in one.

      What’s unnatural, again?

  21. cbryan777 - Apr 19, 2012 at 2:35 PM

    oops, i meant homosexuality will “always” be weird.

    • The Common Man - Apr 19, 2012 at 10:14 PM

      Doesn’t matter. You’re still wrong. Just not, you know, grammatically.

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