Comments on: Omar Vizquel says he’s retiring at season’s end

By: paperlions

paperlions — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 17:32:38 +0000

They actually were not that close at all. To summarize:

The most assists recorded by Vizquel in a year was 475 (the only year he topped 450. Ozzie’s career high in assists was 621, he topped 500 assists 8 times. Vizquel was no where near Ozzie’s league in terms of defense (i.e. turning batted balls into outs).

In addition, Ozzie was a significantly better hitter for his era (94 wRC+ compared to 84 for Vizquel, a10 pt difference over a career is a LOT).

Ozzie saved nearly twice as many runs/inning over a replacement player according to the fielding component of WAR…which is pretty consistent with the number of assists each had.

By: stlouis1baseball

stlouis1baseball — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:35:40 +0000

I would give it to Ozzie because he displayed his skills on Astroturf (among many other things).
To get to the balls #1 got to on Astroturf….wow. Dudes range was un-real. On ASTROTURF!

By: stlouis1baseball

stlouis1baseball — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:33:35 +0000

Brown…there are a whoooooooooole lot of people that will vehemently disagree with you on that. See…Smith, Ozzie.

By: takemytalentstosoutheuclid

takemytalentstosoutheuclid — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:24:17 +0000

As someone old enough to have watched both Omar and Ozzie play, I’d tell you that they are a lot closer defensively than you might think. I’m tempted to give Omar the edge because of the era he played in, with the hitters being so much stronger, enhanced or not. In his prime, his range and ability to make most any play, was simply unequaled. Also, winning a WS has clearly helped borderline HoF candidates in the past. When it’s all said and done, he should get in, my guess is by year 5. That 95 Indians team could easily have 4 legit HOF’ers, 5 if ManRam ever makes it.

By: atworkident

atworkident — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:06:54 +0000

Seen better silhouettes but for a dude it is pretty good.

By: ptfu

ptfu — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 04:29:01 +0000

Nope. Ozzie Smith begs to differ. Vizquel was/is excellent defensively but he’s no Wizard. Ozzie and Omar are comparable offensively too–Omar with 50 more doubles and homers (in 5 more seasons), Ozzie with half the Ks, more SBs, and a higher SB%.

Also, I don’t see how the Tribe’s hypothetical postseason perfomance would help Vizquel. Omar still wouldn’t be a hitter worth mentioning. He hit like rancid garbage in the ’95 postseason and like slightly perfumed garbage in ’97.

By: hbdbrowns33

hbdbrowns33 — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 03:39:05 +0000

Omar is a Hall of Famer no doubt. He is the best defensive SS of all time. If the tribe had won in either 95 or 97 this wouldnt even be up for debate.

By: jwbiii

jwbiii — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:49:46 +0000

That puts him more in the Rabbit Maranville neighborhood
Maranville – 39.4/30.3, 82 OPS+

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:16:10 +0000

They really aren’t a good comparison. Vizquel was an all defense, no bat kind of SS that has more than half his value in his defense. Larkin was a great offensive shortstop who was above average on defense:

rWAR/defWAR
Larkin – 67.1/13.8
Vizquel – 40.8/28.1

Triple slash
Larkin – .295/.371/.444 – 116 OPS+
Vizquel – .272/.337/.352 – 82 OPS+

Vizquel was a great defensive shortstop, but his lack of a peak and sustained excellence should keep him from the HoF.

By: Francisco (FC)

Francisco (FC) — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 00:46:05 +0000

I hope he gets to coach and manage, that would be interesting to watch.

By: millmannj

millmannj — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 00:10:42 +0000

If Barry Larkin is a Hall of Famer then there should be no doubt Vizquel belongs in Cooperstown.

By: rooney24

rooney24 — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 00:10:16 +0000

His career will be an interesting case for the Hall of Fame. If his defense is factored in by voters, I would think he eventually makes it, though it will take a few years. Eleven Gold Gloves would help his case. But, since defense is often undervalued, I don’t think his offense alone would get him in if they ignore the defense. He was close to 3,000 hits, but is it only because he played 24 seasons? He was a solid offensive player, and I recall him being a tough out. Almost as many walks as strikeouts in his career. Over 400 steals. Most sacrifices among active players, 35th all time, pretty high considering he only spent a few years in the NL.

I would guess his odds at about 65% to get in, likely using up at least 8-12 years of his eligibility before he gets in. Does that sound too high? Too low? Too many years? Too few years? No chance? I am curious how others would place his odds.

By: hojo20

hojo20 — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 23:51:05 +0000

Great pic with this story. Love the siloutte.

By: proudlycanadian

proudlycanadian — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 23:33:21 +0000

A class act.

By: tubbman27

tubbman27 — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 23:28:58 +0000

What a career Little O. Started off as a typical slick fielding speedy SS, really made himself into an above average hitter with Cleveland. A real joy to watch. Minus the whole Arthur Rhodes incident.

By: dakotablake

dakotablake — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 23:25:07 +0000

Hats off to you, Omar, for an amazing big league career.