Skip to content

Yep, Cliff Lee is still winless

Jun 30, 2012, 10:08 AM EST

Cliff Lee AP AP

Cliff Lee will enter July without a win.

At first, this was mostly a ridiculous quick based primarily on a lack of run support, but this isn’t just about the offense anymore.

Lee dropped to 0-5 last night by allowing six runs over 4 2/3 innings as part of a 6-2 loss to the Marlins. It was his shortest outing since last July 25 and the most runs he has allowed in a start since last July 3.

Lee has allowed 20 runs in 24 2/3 innings over his last four starts and has watched his ERA jump from 2.92 to 4.13 in the process. His ERA hasn’t been this high this late in a season since 2007 with the Indians when he finished with a 6.29 ERA. The 33-year-old is just the second former Cy Young Award winner to go winless over his first 13 starts in a season, joining Vida Blue, who did it with the Royals back in 1983.

Yes, Lee’s secondary numbers tell us that he has pitched better than the results indicate and he’s bound to go on a nice run here sooner or later, but it’s perfectly OK to say that this is just plain weird.

  1. senatorsguy - Jun 30, 2012 at 10:50 AM

    This is just plain weird.

    • Old Gator - Jun 30, 2012 at 4:05 PM

      This is just plain weird (emphasis added).

  2. yahmule - Jun 30, 2012 at 10:50 AM

    It’s perfectly OK to say Cliff Lee is to roto teams as salt is to snails.

    • Old Gator - Jun 30, 2012 at 4:06 PM

      But do you know what beer is to snails?

      • yahmule - Jun 30, 2012 at 8:26 PM

        It helps the shy ones come out of their shells?

  3. uyf1950 - Jun 30, 2012 at 11:10 AM

    I know most fans on this site don’t subscribe to the ERA theory to evaluate a pitchers performance. However, Lee ERA is over 4 as has been pointed out above. Also so far this year he’s walked a few more as a percentage of his K rate. Keep in mind he will be 34 in just 2 months and the Phillies still have him under contract for 3 possibly 4 more years is his option year vests. It’s beginning to look like money not well spent.

    • Kevin S. - Jun 30, 2012 at 11:30 AM

      Well, if we’re going to go by ERA noted above, he was sub 3.00 through the first two months. Finished, or just a bad June?

      • uyf1950 - Jun 30, 2012 at 11:45 AM

        My friend personally I don’t believe in cherry picking dates. His ERA is what it is. Actually if we wanted to break out his season then from May 20 through yesterday (8 of his 13 starts) Lee’s ERA is 5.27 if I’m not mistaken. So it’s hardly just a bad June.

      • Kevin S. - Jun 30, 2012 at 12:15 PM

        The point is people were using his lack of wins as evidence that he wasn’t pitching well, when in fact by ERA he was just fine until his last four starts. Those have been bad, but seven of his first nine starts were Quality Starts, with many of them well exceeding that threshold. My point is not to cherry-pick dates so much as to point out that a short run of starts can drastically affect an ERA when we’re only looking at a half-season’s worth of starts. I don’t think that his last four starts mean that Cliff Lee is suddenly a 4.00+ ERA true-talent pitcher.

      • uyf1950 - Jun 30, 2012 at 12:58 PM

        Kevin, I understand what you are saying I just don’t happen to agree. For Example:
        From April 7th to May 15th his 1st 5 starts his ERA is: 1.95
        From May 20th to June 5th his middle 4 starts his ERA is: 4.23
        From June 10th to June 29th his last 4 starts his ERA is: 7.30
        I guess the way I look at it the first 3rd of the season so far he was great for the most part. The 2nd 3rd of the season so far he’s been average. The last 3rd he’s been bad. And if you look at it game by game of his 13 starts he’s been very good in only 5. Average in 4 and really bad in 4. In my opinion. Again in my opinion those are not Cliff Lee types of performances. That’s all I’m saying.
        What I do agree with you about is that he has certainly pitched well enough especially early on to have won several of the games he pitched in. I just don’t think he’s pitched up to the level fans expect of him over the course of the season so far.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Jun 30, 2012 at 12:45 PM

      Ivan Nova: 9-2 4.03 ERA
      Hiroki Kuroda: 7-7 3.40 ERA

      And if the Yanks didn’t blow the game in the 9th the other day, Nova would be 10-2.

  4. kingjoe1 - Jun 30, 2012 at 11:21 AM

    The phillies need to sell off many of their stars and look a few years out. They have no minor league system to speak of
    And it is time to replenish. Say bye to victorino, hamels, pence, and of they get blown away by an offer Lee and Halliday.

    • uyf1950 - Jun 30, 2012 at 11:25 AM

      Don’t see them being blown away by an offer for Lee. He’s owed a lot of money and maybe the years are starting to catch up to him considering he’ll bee 34 in just 2 months as I mentioned above. Can’t see a lot of teams that would be willing to give up a lot of “prospects” and take on that salary also.

      • paperlions - Jun 30, 2012 at 12:16 PM

        Exactly. Except for Halladay, every Philly vet has a contract that would require Philly to pay a lot (or most) of in order to get any decent prospects in return. Victorino and Hamels are FAs next year, so their value in terms of prospects isn’t great either.

        This team has been headed down this road for a few years, and instead of getting younger, they traded away the farm system to get older. It isn’t clear if they decided to go all in for 2011-2012 or if they really thought those moves were good ideas.

  5. annaalamode - Jun 30, 2012 at 11:43 AM

    I’m still taking the over/under on a public screaming match involving Cliff Lee at July 15th. Dude looks hella ticked off.

  6. paperlions - Jun 30, 2012 at 12:16 PM

    4 Aces

    Future murky, at best.

  7. randygnyc - Jun 30, 2012 at 1:45 PM

    I don’t feel sorry for Lee, at all. In fact, I hope he goes winless the rest of his career.

  8. dkphilly1122 - Jun 30, 2012 at 2:20 PM

    People love to hate…….especially Yankee fans cause he bolted to Philly and let them hang out to dry. Cliff Lee will be fine at some point this year. He’s not washed up, finished, whatever you wanna assume. As far as the Phillies trying to get younger……is stupid, mind as well ride what you have until it crashes. You can trade away everyone now for “Prospects” who aren’t guaranteed. So, let’s say they end up sucking and not coming thru like Dom Brown and all the high “Prospects” the Phillies traded away for Lee and Doc…….than the team sucks for the next however many years starting after the trade deadline…..that’s just dumb. People can say whatever they want, but they still got it, they need a Bullpen.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Jun 30, 2012 at 5:22 PM

      Is that the default answer to anyone criticizing a Phillies player, that they are automatically Yankee fans?

  9. Walk - Jun 30, 2012 at 9:39 PM

    Brewers might swap livan hernandez if raj asks nicely. Might only want a couple of signed balls from lee and halladay as compensation. Stand firm though he might be had for just a vance worley autograph on chili’s napkin.

  10. deathmonkey41 - Jul 1, 2012 at 6:42 PM

    It’s the Curse of Cliff Lee. It was brought upon the Phillies because Cliff lied about going there for less money. If he had just said that he used the Yanks and Rangers to get more money out of the Phillies and would have went to one of those teams if the Phillies hadn’t ponied out more per year in the 11th hour than either of those two was offering, he wouldn’t have made the baby Jesus cry and the curse would have been lifted. As it stands, the only way to do away with the curse is for everyone at CBP to spit on his wife.

    • henryd3rd - Jul 1, 2012 at 7:35 PM

      That’s so wrong. To this day I don’t believe Yankees fans scream profanities at his wife or spit on her either. I have to wonder how are Phillie fans are treating her each time he takes the mound and gets his brains beat out

Leave Comment

You must be logged in to leave a comment. Not a member? Register now!

Featured video

Cubs shore up rotation with Jon Lester
Top 10 MLB Player Searches
  1. C. Gonzalez (2241)
  2. D. Ross (2127)
  3. J. Grilli (2094)
  4. A. Pierzynski (2019)
  5. D. Young (1976)
  1. S. Smith (1910)
  2. M. Scutaro (1899)
  3. T. Stauffer (1868)
  4. W. Myers (1846)
  5. D. Haren (1834)