Comments on: Phillies rebuild not off to a smashing start

By: cleverbob

cleverbob — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 02:46:23 +0000

Count me out

By: paperlions

paperlions — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 01:42:09 +0000

I love that suddenly Philly fans dream of landing Bourne….he is pretty much the prototypical “paid too much for too many years and now he suddenly doesn’t have the speed to cover CF or make a difference at the plate to even justify 1/2 of his contract” pending FA.

He going to be 30 this off season, not horribly old, but still buying into a declining market. He is exactly the kind of mistake Philly has been making in the FA market the last few years.

By: leerosenthall

leerosenthall — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 23:16:18 +0000

That’s okay. I was pretty sure it was a typo and not ignorance on your part.

At least you can edit your gaffes, unlike us poor slobs in the comments section.

By: seeingwhatsticks

seeingwhatsticks — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 22:39:22 +0000

Clearly you were not reading the comments here after the Cliff Lee deal and then the Hunter Pence trade last year.

By: dannythebisforbeast

dannythebisforbeast — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 21:28:49 +0000

Amaro has yet to make a good selling trade. Hes great and giving away our prospects for rentals,
but not the other way around. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut Amaro hasnt found one yet IMO.

Phillies could use Joe Banner

By: Ben

Ben — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:57:18 +0000

Nobody thought Ruben Amaro was a stealth ninja genius. They thought he spent money like drunken sailor with syphilitic dementia. And they were right.

By: cleverbob

cleverbob — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:52:50 +0000

Who pissed in craigbhill’s cheerios that morning?

By: seeingwhatsticks

seeingwhatsticks — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:47:29 +0000

What a difference a year makes. This time last year Ruben Amaro was a stealth ninja genius who had put together a 250 win team that would have taken down the 27 Yankees with ease.

By: rjmarrella

rjmarrella — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:36:41 +0000

These deals are fine. Not great, but fine. RAJ has options heading into the offseason now. That’s important. Paging Michael Bourne

By: xmatt0926x

xmatt0926x — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:21:30 +0000

The sellout streak is the most over hyped thing ever. If the tickets are already sold and 20% of the people don’t show up, who cares? There’s only one thing you need to ask about a fan base. Will they support a good product on the field? If they will then that’s good enough. when a teams management says we are no longer good enough so we will dump salary and put a poorer product on the field, why should the everyday fan dump his hard earned money to see that poorer product? Oh, thats right. Loyalty!!! (as the owners laugh their asses off at those “loyal” fans)

By: xmatt0926x

xmatt0926x — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:14:47 +0000

DrMonkey, don’t throw those little facts in there please. They kind of ruin the story.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:33:03 +0000

No, they didn’t get much for those guys….but they got about what most people would expect for a pair of 2-month rentals. The problem the Phils have is that they traded away their farm, not realizing (somehow) that other teams valued prospects far more than Philly did…so now that the shoe is on the other foot…there aren’t any guys available to get back that resemble the talent of the guys they traded away. The game has been changing quickly the last few years, but the Phillies FO has been operating like it was still the early 2000s.

What in the world is their lineup going to look like next year? Gonna be pretty ugly, isn’t it?

By: chadjones27

chadjones27 — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:30:48 +0000

How is Pence going to make $14 mil in arbitration next year? Are other teams really overpaying awkward right fielders who are just average?

By: paperlions

paperlions — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:27:57 +0000

The offer has to be something like at least the average of the top 125 baseball contracts (which may be where the $12Mish figure comes from) in order to get compensation for losing the player….if a guy is Victorino’s age, he may be looking for a multi-year deal because every year increases the chances that he’ll never get one….but yeah, it is a risk for teams to assume that such a player would turn down that offer…as they may not get offered anything close to that AAV on a multi-year deal.

By: njbucsfan

njbucsfan — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:14:23 +0000

Does the sell out streak continue?

By: mdpickles

mdpickles — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:10:37 +0000

If Chooch keeps hitting the way he is, I see a 1B platoon next year or the year after with overpaid Howard. But I won’t say that these trades accomplished little. If anything, it cleared up payroll for 2013, in which the Phils will go WAAYY over the tax threshold. Bank it, literally.

By: Matthew Pouliot

Matthew Pouliot — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:02:21 +0000

Did I really do that…. yes, yes I did. Ugh.

By: greymares

greymares — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:01:07 +0000

To-Jo (Tommy Joseph) is athletic enough to move to third base, chooch has 2 years and Valle will be the future catcher, unless Joseph was aquired to trade for Headley

By: Francisco (FC)

Francisco (FC) — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:57:48 +0000

TCM, you know Matthew wants to graduate to Master Baiter, so he comes out with these types of headlines and slants on certain issues

By: illcomm

illcomm — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:53:45 +0000

u gotta remember. Phils paid more for pence cause he was cheaper for the time period we had him. giants paid a little less in prospects cause they will have to shell out 6 mil more than the Phils gave pence for the same time lenght.

By: drmonkeyarmy

drmonkeyarmy — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:50:31 +0000

This is two times in a row Common Man. What is going on here? If this isn’t a sign of the coming apocalypse, I don’t know what is.

By: GoneYickitty

GoneYickitty — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:50:07 +0000

I agree with the comments on the Cliff Lee trade, but don’t think they really could have gotten much more for these two players. It’s not like teams weren’t aware they were available and yet nobody made better offers.

By: drmonkeyarmy

drmonkeyarmy — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:49:35 +0000

Thanks for the information. Still trying to get a clearer idea on the compensation details of the new CBA.

By: ewyorksockexchange

ewyorksockexchange — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:49:31 +0000

The compensatory pick rules in the new CBA don’t give you very much, even for a type A player. You no longer get the signing team’s 1st rounder, which is why you’re seeing less for players.

By: leerosenthall

leerosenthall — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:48:52 +0000

Schierholtz is a good *complementary* player (although maybe he’s known for paying compliments too). I’m just glad to hear he is a reliable outfielder. Pence was a butcher out there in RF.

The most pressing question: Which animal is the Giants’ marketing team preparing to represent Hunter, a kangaroo?

By: gammagammahey

gammagammahey — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:47:41 +0000

For the comp pick, the player doesn’t have to ultimately sign a contract worth $12m/year, the old team just needs to offer a 1-year deal worth that much. Victorino’s looking for a long-term deal so he’d decline that either way.

By: stex52

stex52 — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:47:15 +0000

The link that Matt provided to the comments on the Pence trade from a year ago should be required reading for everyone on this blog. We should all practice great restraint when predicting what baseball teams will be like in a year. The descriptions of the Phillies, Braves and Giants bear no resemblance to what actually happened in the playoffs or what we see from those teams now. Amazingly, no mention of the Nationals.

Gives me a little more respect for what a GM does for a living.

By: The Common Man

The Common Man — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:47:15 +0000

I can’t believe I’m agreeing with the good doctor, but it seems ridiculous to complain about these hauls, and I actually really like what they got for Pence.

By: Francisco (FC)

Francisco (FC) — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:47:01 +0000

We won’t know the final cost of the Hunter Pence trade until the prospects pan out or flame out. As for the return I don’t think Ruben could have gotten much more for an outfielder on his way out or an outfielder about to get much more expensive in arbitration. When evaluating prospects though it’s more useful to consider them on their own not within the context of the farm system, if the move gives the Phillies an extra catcher who may be expendable they may later trade that prospect for more decent help.

By: drmonkeyarmy

drmonkeyarmy — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 18:39:56 +0000

Would they have gotten a supplemental pick for Victorino? Is anybody going to offer him the salary necessary to garner a pick (around 12 million/per)? Furthermore, I think a lot of the dealing has more to do with getting under the luxury tax this season. They are bound to go over next season and probably don’t want to pay the extra penalties associated with going over two straight years. With the limit going to 189 million in 2014, they will have a bit more room to play with.