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Minus Tony La Russa, Cardinals still league’s biggest dipwads

Aug 28, 2012, 10:15 PM EDT

Josh Harrison, Yadier Molina

Yeah, Josh Harrison bowled over Yadier Molina in the second inning Tuesday, knocking the St. Louis catcher out of the game soreness in his back, neck and shoulders. It was a violent collision, and the Cardinals weren’t happy about seeing maybe their best player leave with an injury.

So, of course, Jake Westbrook threw at Harrison three innings later, plunking him in the leg with a first-pitch fastball.

And, for that, I’m calling the Cardinals losers. There was nothing old school about it. It was just a whiny team not having things go its way and deciding to get revenge the only way it knew how.

Take it out on Harrison? Ridiculous. Molina was sitting there right in front of the plate, low to the ground, ready to absorb the collision. Harrison had absolutely nowhere else to go. Watch the play and tell me what Harrison should have done differently?

Look, I’m not a fan of this type of play. I’ve railed against it on this blog before. If I had my way, plate blocking would be illegal. But it isn’t, and this kind of thing is going to happen from time to time.

There’s nothing dirty about what Harrison did. If Harrison happened to be a Cardinal, every one of his teammates would have applauded his effort. He didn’t deserve a fastball to the thigh for it, and it’s mind-boggling that Westbrook wasn’t ejected for one of the most obviously intentional HBPs you’ll ever see.

121 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. jahwerb - Aug 29, 2012 at 12:23 AM

    Just like the Posey play, the runner had a choice to either run over the catcher or do a hook-slide. Both chose to run over the catcher. Josh Harrison would be fined for “launching” in the NFL because he leaves his feet to apply a hit on a defenseless player. If you watch the play, Molina reaches his glove out low and to the outer part of the baseline expecting the runner to slide. Molina did exactly what catchers are taught with the expectation that a player will slide. It is impossible to protect yourself in that situation and you can’t stand off to the side like a matador and expect to be able to make the tag. You say that the runner has no choice but that is completely wrong. Just because he is obviously out doesn’t mean that he has to try to give the catcher a concussion or broken leg like Posey. So to answer your question, Matthew Pouliot, Harrison should have done a hook slide. He may have actually been safe and not taken a cheap shot at the same time.

    • thereisaparty - Aug 29, 2012 at 9:57 AM

      I hate this play and think it has no place in baseball. However, this appears to be different from the Posey play, in that Molina was clearly in the runner’s basepath. Cousins went out of his path to make contact. The is plenty of evidence showing that Posey was situated in fair territory in front of home plate, leaving Cousins a clear path (first google image result of “Posey Cousins collision: The photo in this article shows a different situation, in which the path to home is clearly obstructed.

      While the mask and chest protector give the illusion of armor (the equipment is designed to withstand impact from baseballs not humans at full-speed), the shinguards appear to give catchers peace of mind when blocking the plate. A thirdbaseman would for obvious reasons be as willing to block a slide. Changing this rule will be more complex than just requiring a slide.

    • jgreiner9 - Aug 29, 2012 at 10:48 AM

      This is nothing close to the posey play. part of the reason why the posey was bad was because he never got his feet positioned and in doing so got his leg trapped underneath him which caused his torn up knee. As a former catcher – that played in college and the minors as recently as 2010 – catchers are not taught to have the expectation of the runner sliding. they’re taught to be ready for anything and brace yourself when need be. I always went into each play at the plate as if they were coming in to collide with me. but looking at that picture and the different angles from the video thats linked, he had no room to hookslide and still would of been out regardless because molina was properly positioned. so it came down to sliding or doing what you can to try to score which ended up as a collision. do i like it? no, but its been a part of the game forever now and seemigly doesn’t look like its going to change.

    • jimeejohnson - Aug 29, 2012 at 2:05 PM

      Congratulations: you’ve got the most thumbs downs anyone has gotten in awhile.

  2. hushbrother - Aug 29, 2012 at 12:24 AM

    It was a little like the Zdeno Chara hit on Max Pacioretti – a clean hit, but one that everyone thought was dirty because Chara is 6’9″ and Pacioretti slammed into a post which should not have been where it was on the rink. The Canadiens didn’t retaliate, but that had less to do with not being dipwads and more to do with being a bunch of sniveling cowards.

    • workn4daman - Aug 29, 2012 at 8:17 AM

      Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot, now Chara’s late cheapshot elbow to the head was a clean hit? It wasn’t dirty because Chara is 6’9″, it was dirty because he elbowed a guy in the head on a late hit because he’s a sloth on skates. That post is in the same place it’s been for 100 years and the same place it is in a majority of rinks and the players know it. Speaking of complete dipwads, this would be a good time to heed your screen name and shut your dick hole.

  3. mlb4life - Aug 29, 2012 at 12:31 AM

    Typical immature Cardinals. Next they’ll claim that Harrison should be suspended from the league….

    • ajcardsfan - Aug 29, 2012 at 8:45 AM

      Nah, not a big fan of what happened, both the barreling into the catcher or the plunking from Westbrook. It’s just a bunch of stupid, like it’s been said, the MLB just needs to make it illegal for catchers to block the plate.

      • stlouis1baseball - Aug 29, 2012 at 9:19 AM

        I agree with everything you stated AJ. I will say in this case however, Yadier fielded the throw up the line a little and essentially had time to turn into to Harrison and that was it.
        Nevertheless, it was a clean play. No blocking of the plate. Just a bang…bang play.
        A clean baseball play.

      • koufaxmitzvah - Aug 29, 2012 at 10:06 AM

        Blocking the plate is one of the more exciting plays in baseball. Catcher has a right to make things difficult for a runner, and the runner has a right to the baseline.

        This is a physical game. Especially if you make hundreds of thousands and tens of millions of year to play it. That’s the compensation for, occasionally, getting knocked off your rocker.

        The fact that Molina held onto the ball is amazing. Can’t we all just get along?

  4. johngaltx - Aug 29, 2012 at 12:48 AM

    The first play you will see when you play your 2012 Pittsburgh Pirates World Series DVD, will be Josh Harrison knocking “the best catcher in baseball” into next week.

    The Pirates needed a wake-up call and they got two today—first one the release of Bedard and the second, bigger one was Harrison flattening Molina and the Cardinals.

    • djpostl - Aug 29, 2012 at 8:58 AM

      Rofl. World Series DVD. Rofl.

  5. nixonotis - Aug 29, 2012 at 1:01 AM

    So, does someone want to explain this irrational hatred of Matt? The comments on this article are ridiculously grotesque and I can’t begin to understand. I, for one, appreciate the fact that HBT updates at all hours and maybe it’s the drinking y’all are up to, but why are we hating on anyone who is a member of our community? I, for one, am getting pretty fucking sick of it. There is absolutely nothing in this article that any educated baseball fan can argue with, unless you simply dislike the fact that the author’s first name doesn’t begin with a C.

    • djpostl - Aug 29, 2012 at 8:59 AM

      Dude is clearly some kind of butt hurt fan of a shitty franchise. All he does is take pot shots at the Yankees, Cardinals etc….

  6. shzastl - Aug 29, 2012 at 1:20 AM

    He’s just trying to be controversial like Skip Bayless

  7. regis18 - Aug 29, 2012 at 1:30 AM

    There was no way the Pirates wanted Westbrook ejected — his pitching was to the Pirates liking.

  8. fearlessleader - Aug 29, 2012 at 1:47 AM

    Oh, Pouliot, stuff it. The Cards and their fans watched the team’s best and most important player take a hit so hard that he couldn’t stand up; I know I felt physically ill watching the play and its aftermath. Mike Matheny knows a little something about how that feels and how serious it is, too, since he lost years of his career to post-concussion syndrome.

    If you want to write about your take on the situation and your disapproval of the (extremely mild) rump-bump Harrison got in retaliation, go for it—intelligent people can disagree about what’s fair game. But to use this headline and this tone makes you sound like a punk-ass junior-high-schooler desperate for attention and page-hits, not anything approaching a serious sportswriter. Not that anyone’s surprised by that after the “shiny new cars” BS last week.

    • fearlessleader - Aug 29, 2012 at 2:34 AM

      By the way, Matthew Pouliot didn’t seem to mind at all when Matheny said last year that Scott Cousins’ slide into Buster Posey, though not a “dirty play,” was “unnecessary” and would probably result in a plunking:

      Gosh, it’s almost as though Matheny’s return to a Cardinal uniform has something to do with Matt’s newfound outrage….nahhh.

      • paperlions - Aug 29, 2012 at 7:16 AM

        Matthew Pouliot, still the biggest dipwad on HBT.

      • djpostl - Aug 29, 2012 at 9:00 AM

        Nothing like getting owned by your own words, huh Pouliot?

    • stlouis1baseball - Aug 29, 2012 at 9:21 AM

      Give it to him Fearless. He’s forever hating. Drama. Drama. Drama.

  9. ghostofjimlindeman - Aug 29, 2012 at 5:11 AM

    I’m calling out Matt for pathetic writing and inflamatory statements about the Cardinals an their fans so screw you Matt! By the way when you bowl into the catcher you don’t aim for the head. See head injuries are dangerous why NFL had outlawed head shots but I guess it’s ok in baseball though. What a loaded an terrible article this is and what a jackass the author is as well. Gotta love Cardinal haters 11 titles and counting kiss the rings bitch!

  10. ghostofjimlindeman - Aug 29, 2012 at 5:14 AM

    I’m calling out Matt for pathetic writing and inflamatory statements about the Cardinals an their fans so screw you Matt! By the way when you bowl into the catcher you don’t aim for the head. See head injuries are dangerous why NFL had outlawed head shots but I guess it’s ok in baseball though. What a loaded an terrible article this is and what a jackass the author is as well. Gotta love Cardinal haters 11 titles and counting kiss the rings loser.

    • bengalsucker - Aug 29, 2012 at 7:58 AM

      “11 titles and counting kiss the rings loser.”

      And you wonder why there are hate articles about the Cardinals. The team and the fans are as bad as Steelers fans. Nothing but a bunch of bandwagon fans all over the country because you guys have won some championships. Go into a 10 year drought and see how many nationwide fans you have then. That’ll show most of your fanbase are bandwagon jumpers. Cardinals, the Steelers organization of the MLB.

      • ghostofjimlindeman - Aug 29, 2012 at 8:15 AM

        Bandwagon jumpers? You’re a moron.. Cards have had many bad decades and fans always show up. Cards fans loyal to bone. Hate us all you want, hate us like they hate the Patriots. Fine with me. We’ll just keep winning titles.

      • stlouis1baseball - Aug 29, 2012 at 9:24 AM

        Dude…when you call a Cardinals fan bandwagon jumpers you lose all credibility.
        A freaking Bengals fan (and quite obviously a Redlegs fan)….talking about bandwagons.
        You. Are. A. Hypocrite.

      • stlouis1baseball - Aug 29, 2012 at 9:27 AM

        Another thing Chumpstain. Do your homework before spouting your drivel and you will not appear so ignorant. Otherwise, your ignorance is confirmed.
        Look at the attendance figures “dipwad.”
        Look at the attendance figures for their AWAY games “dipwad.”
        You will see they have always sold well “dipwad.”
        You will see this includes them always being one of the top 5 in MLB in away games “dipwad.”

    • stellars - Aug 29, 2012 at 11:12 AM

      I bet you weren’t complaining about Jon Jay hitting Carlos Ruiz in the head.

  11. maynardstool - Aug 29, 2012 at 7:11 AM

    No I believe it’s spelled DOUCHEBAG not blogger. All the “bloggers” at this place are just bitter because they can’t get a real job in journalism and are forced to live in their parents basement.

    They just can’t come to terms with the fact they’re insignificant little pissants.

  12. mj1818 - Aug 29, 2012 at 7:53 AM

    The funny thing about this is that the Pirates got a warning after Harrison was hit!

  13. mvp43 - Aug 29, 2012 at 8:45 AM

    St Louis is a lousy dirty city and the Cardinals are all they have……..That’s why they act that way. Their fans need something to rally around and call their own.

    • ghostofjimlindeman - Aug 29, 2012 at 8:52 AM

      Good ribs in The Lou though. Dirty city try going to Baltimore man that’s a rough town. Amazing ballpark though. Yes you are right the Cardinals are pretty much all St. Louis cares about. No argument there.

      • dexterismyhero - Aug 30, 2012 at 11:59 AM

        And Budweiser!!!!

  14. crookedstick - Aug 29, 2012 at 8:54 AM

    To those posting that criticize everyone’s comments because they “didn’t play the game”, it’s interesting to note that the ones that did “play the game”, had no problem with the play. On the postgame, former Cardinals Ricky Horton and Al Hrabosky both said it was a clean play and “if it was a Cardinal, we’d be applauding the aggressiveness of the play.” On the other hand, drunken Danny McLaughlin originally spouted off like all the other whiny Cardinal fans here until he was basically bitch-slapped down by Horton and Hrabosky.

    • saints97 - Aug 29, 2012 at 3:02 PM

      Actually, I called Pouliot out for being someone who doesn’t understand the game. That had nothing to do with the play the plate, and everything to do with him calling an entire team “dipwads” for dotting a guy on the leg.

      But that is the kind of shot that in the NFL now gets you a 15 yard penalty and a $25,000 fine. Concussions are serious business, and it is time that that MLB takes note of that.

      What can they do? That’s for people way above my pay grade. But as a former catcher, I got run over many times, and ran over catchers a few times. Somehow I managed to never attack a guy’s head, though.

      I’m not attacking the Pirate who hit him, though. I’m not sure he could have avoided, nor do I think he did it intentionally. But he also didn’t complain about being hit, either. He understood. And so do 99% of players that played the game at a level where you can run over catchers.

      But Pouliot is more of a troll than he is a blogger. You don’t call an entire team some juvenile name, and you certainly don’t do it in a headline. Well, you don’t do it if your are interested in ever being taken seriously.

  15. danaking - Aug 29, 2012 at 9:26 AM

    I’m a fan of Yadier Molina, probably the best all-around catcher in the game. I hope he’s not hurt badly. That being said, if a catcher places himself and his equipment between a runner and the plate, is the runner supposed to concede the out? He has a right to the base. To avoid these kinds of plays, it’s just as easy to require catchers to make sweep tags as the runner comes in as it is to call the runner for crashing into the catcher. Maybe even easier. As much bitching about umpires goes on here, who wants Joe West to have to decide whether the runner made too much contact?

  16. uiucfan1 - Aug 29, 2012 at 9:29 AM

    cards went from 85 to 06 with no titles, that’s a 21 year drought, still a fan. (and I’m only 33 years young)

  17. koufaxmitzvah - Aug 29, 2012 at 10:03 AM

    I happen to remember Jack Clark of the Cardinals bowling over Mike Scioscia of the Dodgers. Scioscia was knocked unconscious, and Scioscia held onto the ball.

    That’s old school.

    Stay classy, Cardinals.

  18. mplsjoe - Aug 29, 2012 at 10:06 AM

    How does Scott Diamond get a 6-game suspension for retailiating by throwing at Josh Hamilton, but Jake Westbrook doesn’t even get tossed for retaliating by throwing at Josh Harrison?

  19. kwd21 - Aug 29, 2012 at 10:08 AM

    1.) With all the side effects of concussions, more needs to be done to protect catchers from these and other injuries. Just ask Buster Posey.

    2.) It was juvenile of the Cards to retaliate. Clearly they were upset at the prospect of losing one of their most important players while in playoff contention but nothing will make the Pirates hurt in a 9-0 victory like a blazing fastball from………. Jake Westbrook? On a list of hard throwers, he ranks closer to Bob Tewksbury than Aroldis Chapman.

    3.) The retaliation was not nearly as juvenile as the Skip Bayless journalism displayed by Matthew. Calling somebody a “dipwad” for doing something you don’t agree with – are you blogging from an elementary school playground?

  20. stellars - Aug 29, 2012 at 10:59 AM

    Jon Jay had a lot more plate open to him in this collision last postseason with Carlos Ruiz than Josh Harrison did last night.

  21. bdvlad - Aug 29, 2012 at 11:27 AM

    People wondering why Harrison decided to try and bowl over the catcher rather than sliding should take a look at this play from last July. Harrison slid, caught the cleats from his lead leg on Corporan’s shin guard, and got slobberknocked by shoulder to the nose. Blood everywhere.

    The collision was a good, tough play by both Harrison and Molina. Just one of those things that happens in baseball sometimes, when guys are playing at max effort. I’m glad that Molina is OK, because he showed some real spirit by hanging onto the ball and making the play. Too bad the rest of the Cardinals (and their fans) couldn’t show the same kind of restraint and dignity.

    • ghostofjimlindeman - Aug 29, 2012 at 12:06 PM

      Neither could author of this B.S. blog post.

    • stlouis1baseball - Aug 29, 2012 at 1:26 PM

      “Too bad the rest of the Cardinals (and their fans) couldn’t show the same kind of restraint and dignity.”
      Really? Let be state it once again. I will try my best to be clear.
      I will try to be clear by typing very slowly. It. Was. A. Clean. Baseball. Play.

      • bdvlad - Aug 29, 2012 at 1:47 PM

        I wish you were more representative of your team’s fan base.

        A surprisingly large number of Cardinals fans seem to think that:

        a) The collision was a dirty play.
        b-1) Westbrook was justified in throwing at Harrison’s knees.
        b-2) Westbrook’s pitch that hit Harrison was an accident, rather than a “purpose pitch”.

    • stlouis1baseball - Aug 29, 2012 at 2:02 PM

      b-1) Westbrook was justified in throwing at Harrison’s knees.
      b-2) Westbrook’s pitch that hit Harrison was an accident, rather than a “purpose pitch”.

      I have no problems with ‘b-1’. He threw a forearm to Yadi’s head.
      But again…I have no problems with collisions. They are a part of the game of baseball.
      I also have no problems with purpose pitches. They are a part of the game of baseball as well.
      Especially when that purpose pitch is an 85 MPH floater below the waist.
      A huge number of teams would have drilled McCutcheon for it to better make it count.

      • bdvlad - Aug 30, 2012 at 8:39 AM

        Harrison did NOT throw a forearm to Molina’s head. The point of contact with Molina’s head was Harrison’s left shoulder. See this screencap from the video: It’s particularly clear at speed when seen from that angle – the left elbow hits the chest protector right about nipple height, then the left shoulder comes up under Molina’s jaw and snaps his head back.

        Similarly, Westbrook’s pitch wasn’t just “an 85 MPH floater below the waist”. He was aiming at Harrison’s front knee, but missed high and got him on the thigh when the ball carried a bit. Hitting Harrison wasn’t justified here per the unwritten rules, since it was a clean play, but even if it had been a cheap shot, the by-the-book thing to do would have been to hit him in the ass or the back. Throwing at a guy’s knees is bush league stuff – that can end a career, particularly for an undersized player who relies on speed.

        Who is “McCutcheon”?

    • stlouis1baseball - Aug 30, 2012 at 11:18 AM

      We are going to have to agree to disagree bdvlad. You have no idea where Westbrook was aiming. He hit him in the thigh. You state the ass or the back is the proper way to do it. Again…it was below the waist. Far better than a ball up that could easily get away. Point is…he hit with a floater below the waist. You are splitting hairs by stating he could have hit him in the knee and injured his career. Well…Harrison’s forearm and/or shoulder to Yadi’s head could have likewise ended HIS career. It’s obvious to me that you are a biased Buc’s fan. Okay. I completely understand. For a lot of people it is virtually impossible to consider something arbitrarily. Personally, I typically have no problems with it as I call it like I see it.
      In this case (once again)…A CLEAN BASEBALL PLAY.
      As also stated previously…most teams would have drilled Andrew “McCutchen” to really make it count. To close our little debate…I want to say I am really disappointed.
      You were being very sensible and we were having a productive conversation until this morning’s post. Then you revert to “Johnny Spell Checker” with this…”Who is “McCutcheon”?”
      To that I will state…Thank you for editing Mrs. Reynolds.
      Man…and I thought you were sensible.
      I am going to chalk it up to you having the Thursday morning blues and move on.

      • bdvlad - Aug 30, 2012 at 1:33 PM

        I was at the game. Ten rows back from the field, directly behind home plate, in a buddy’s Lexus Club seat. I saw right where Westbrook was aiming because I could see his eyes from the moment he stepped onto the rubber, and I know that the pitch hung a little and missed its target because I saw the spin as it came in. The pitch wasn’t super-hard because a) Westbrook doesn’t throw that hard at the best of times and b) he was near 100 pitches and running out of gas, but it was obvious that it wasn’t a perfunctory HBP. He was trying to hurt Harrison. If you don’t want to hurt a batter on a HBP, you hit him in an area of the body that has some meat on it, like the back or the butt. If you want to hurt him, you look for a place that’s bone on bone, like the knee. Your argument about “below the waist” safety is unpersuasive – a pitcher whose command is so poor that he hits a guy in the head when he’s aiming for the ass is a pitcher who doesn’t belong in the majors in the first place. Not to mention that the last time I checked, most people’s asses were also “below the waist”.

        I’m not sure why you keep talking about Harrison hitting Molina in the head with a forearm when I already showed you a photo of the forearm hitting the chest and the shoulder hitting the head. There isn’t any ambiguity about what happened. It was caught on film from a number of different angles. Harrison’s shoulder happened to hit the head because Molina is several inches taller than Harrison is, and when Molina crouched down to swivel and make the tag, that brought them into line. Similarly, your analogy between Westbrook’s HBP and Harrison’s collision falls apart because there was deliberate intent to injure in the former but not in the latter.

        If you want to think of yourself as a baseball fan, you should know how to spell the name of the best player in the NL. Wouldn’t it bother you if every day you saw posts about “Carlos Belltron” and “Adam Winewright”? Not caring enough to get it right is a demonstration of contempt.

    • stlouis1baseball - Aug 30, 2012 at 2:26 PM

      Again…we are going to have to agree to disagree. You state you know what his intent was because you were sitting 10 rows back. I don’t care if you were catching him you have no idea what his intent was. The pitch was below the waist. Simple as that really. You want to talk about ending a guys career by hitting him in the knee with a floater. Yet…you gloss over the forearm shiver (OR SHOULDER TO THE HEAD) that Harrison gave Molina. You can’t have it both ways. You make excuses about a dudes height. The same dude who had an opening to the plate (to the outside) because the entire plate was clearly not blocked.
      All this…and I STILL tell you it was a clean baseball play.
      Yet…you wanna bitch about Westbrook hitting him with a floater below the waist.
      This is how baseball is policed. It was handled perfectly.
      So much so…Westbrook wasn’t warned or ejected.
      So much so…the Pirates had no problems with it.
      So much so…by most accounts the fans in attendance had no problems with it.
      So much so…Jake isn’t likely to be fined or suspended for it either.
      They could have hit McCutchen (as most teams would have done to make it count a little more).
      I simply do not agree with you with regards Westbrooks intent, with regards to Harrisons intent or with regards to your perception of the video replays.
      I have watched it 50 freaking times. Literally…50 times.
      Just for the record…I spell the best player in the NL two ways.
      Joey Votto and/or Ryan Braun.
      As good as McCutchen is (and he is fabulous)…he isn’t Joey Votto or Ryan Braun.

      • bdvlad - Aug 30, 2012 at 4:05 PM

        Why do you keep talking about a “forearm shiver”? The forearm didn’t touch his head. There is no “or”. Watch the video (the best angle is at 1:00-1:02, at this link), or look at this three-image sequence. In shot 1, you can see that Harrison is coming in with his arms low, right near the bottom of his rib cage. They’re already lower than the level of Molina’s head. In shot 2, you can see the shoulder right up against Molina’s head, and if you look under Molina’s left elbow you can see Harrison’s left hand in the same position as in the previous shot, making it anatomically impossible for his forearm to be in contact with Molina’s head. In shot 3, you can see that both players’ bodies are in the same positions as the previous shot, but Molina’s head is rocking back from the contact with Harrison’s shoulder and Harrison’s helmet is sliding off his head because the impact with Molina has slowed his body. Harrison’s forearm doesn’t hit Molina’s head – the head trauma comes from Harrison’s shoulder rising up under Molina’s jaw. Something that would have been hard for Harrison to avoid, since he’s shorter than Molina and running (and therefore leaning) forward.

        I think it’s pretty obvious why Harrison tried to go through Molina rather than sliding – just look at the video I linked in my first post in this chain of conversation, where he slid on a play at the plate and ended up with blood pouring out of his nose. Have you actually been reading my responses at all?

        You apparently weren’t watching the game, either, because your characterization of events isn’t accurate at all. When Westbrook threw at Harrison, Hurdle jumped out of the dugout like he’d been shot from a cannon, and he spent several minutes arguing with the home plate umpire. The crowd knew what was happening, too, and while they’d clapped for Molina when he got up and walked off under his own power, they booed the shit out of Westbrook, and booed again when he got pulled from the game the next half-inning before the Pirates had a chance to retaliate.

        You’ve at least admitted that the play at the plate was clean, just as Molina did when he was asked about it. What kind of team retaliates after a clean play? What message does that send? “Don’t let the accidental consequences of something that wasn’t your fault happen to us again, or else”? Westbrook’s decision to throw at Harrison and then hide on the bench was one of the most chickenshit things I’ve seen in baseball in a long time. I guess he can dish it out, but he can’t take it. I bet Molina would’ve been ashamed to see the Cards pull that crap.

        Votto and Braun are good players, but right now there’s only one guy leading the NL in OPS+, and his name isn’t Votto or Braun. As of right now, McCutchen is the best hitter in the league.

    • stlouis1baseball - Aug 30, 2012 at 4:20 PM

      Again…we are going to have to agree to disagree. You seem hung up on my few forearm references. Surprising considering I even capitalized SHOULDER TO THE HEAD in the last post.
      When a dude takes out your catcher…you protect your catcher. You do that with a purpose pitch.
      Very similar to Yadier getting plunked TWO TIMES by the Phillies for bowling over Ruiz.
      TWO TIMES he was plunked. As for Westbrook…No ejection…no fine…no suspension.
      Yet…here you are still complaining about the purpose pitch.
      Yadi is proud of his pitcher. As he should be. After all…protecting their teammates is what they do.

      • bdvlad - Aug 31, 2012 at 9:56 AM

        I’m “hung up” on your forearm references because I’ve showed you (twice now!) that there was no forearm to the head, and yet you keep talking about it as if it’s a real thing. If I said you were glossing over that time Molina conspired to blow up the White House (or RAN OVER CARLOS RUIZ), would you get “hung up” on the implications of that?

        How does it “protect” Molina for the Cardinals to throw at a guy’s knee for his role in an accidental injury? If Harrison had done something dirty, fine, throw at him. I don’t think anyone would object to that. But risking a guy’s career in order to “send a message” about an accident is the kind of thing a sociopath would do. Harrison checked on Molina when he saw he was hurt, and clapped for him from the dugout when he was able to get up and walk off, and this is how the Cardinals react? That’s horseshit.

        Here‘s the box score for the game with the Molina/Ruiz collision, which happened in the bottom of the 8th. Molina came up to bat again in the 10th, and the Phillies didn’t throw at him. Indeed, he was the final out of the game. Here‘s Molina’s next game against the Phillies, two days later. He didn’t get hit in that one, either. He did happen to collect a couple of HBPs in the teams’ next series… three months after the fact. You’ll have to excuse me if I don’t see a linear relationship between those two events. If the Phillies had wanted to hit him as retaliation for the collision, they could (and probably would) have hit him during the series in which the collision happened. They certainly weren’t lacking opportunities.

  22. mvp43 - Aug 29, 2012 at 12:17 PM

    The Cardinals and their fans have become completely unlikeable. I thought the culprit was La Russa all along because he was really the ultimate jerk and his players reflected that, but now I’m beginning to think that the players are reflecting their fan base.

    Problem I have is that I don’t really want to hate them but its hard not to.

    • stlouis1baseball - Aug 29, 2012 at 1:32 PM

      MVP43: What’s completely boggling to me is when/how this happened. I mean…the perception.
      St. Louis fans were always considered some of the best fans in baseball.
      I mean this from visiting players’ perspective. It’s also why Big Mac told Edmonds to go ahead and re-up early cause’ he guaranteed him it would be his favorite place he played. They have always been known as a fan base that is courteous, shows good sportsmanship to opposing players, cheers the visiting teams good plays, etc…
      B. Phillips runs his trap to the media a couple of years ago…then taps Yadi the next day (less than twelve hours later) like they are homeboys and all hell breaks loose. This is when I suppose this perception started. I can also appreciate the Organization always sustaining success makes people a little tired. But it’s all still horseshit in my (biased) book.

  23. zbilyeu7 - Aug 29, 2012 at 12:37 PM

    You’re a tool with a computer. Get some class. If you want to call out a team be a little more mature about it. I bet you have no bias against the Cards? Idiot

  24. bdrbrits - Aug 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM

    IMO – Cheap shots are part of being a catcher in MLB. It was true when Rose did it, it was when Lankford did it and it is true when Harrison did it. I actually have no problem with the play. I do have a problem with how the Cardinals responded. You have to go after one of their stars, anything short of that is an invitation for it to happen again. Would you trade a boinking of Descalso for an injury to McCutchen? Of course you would, well that is exactly what the Pirates did last night.

  25. jimeejohnson - Aug 29, 2012 at 2:16 PM

    Pete Rose thought running down catchers was mandatory. He even did it in an all-star game. Of course, Rose was one, tough, SOB, who had the most hits in the history of baseball, and liked to bet on his own team.

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