Comments on: UPDATE: Yadier Molina day-to-day after home-plate collision

By: thereisaparty

thereisaparty — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 20:23:15 +0000

I believe that the “contact” in “contact sport” refers to repeated physical interaction between players on seperate teams (human-on-human contact). You are really stretching here listing plays that involve just one player. And almost all of these things rarely happen. It isn’t hard to picture a game where contact between players is not made at all.

By: bigleagues

bigleagues — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 20:00:23 +0000

First page of comments over on the original Mathew Pouliott post from last night that is:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/28/minus-tony-la-russa-cardinals-still-leagues-biggest-dipwads/comment-page-1/#comments

By: stlouis1baseball

stlouis1baseball — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 19:58:42 +0000

Please know I hear exactly where you are coming from Kozinsky.
That isn’t my point of contention. My point of contention is that it was very much a bang bang play. He was not camping out or otherwise blocking the plate out of the ordinary.
The throw was up the line just a smidge. Yadier fielded the throw and turned to meet the runner. Bang…bang…serious collision. But I also feel he threw a little forearm shiver into him as well.
But that’s okay. Rarely have I seen a collision at the plate that did not involve the runner giving the catcher a forearm shiver. It was a clean play.
Again…unfortunate for Yadi (and the Cardinals). But clean nonetheless.

By: bigleagues

bigleagues — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 19:56:52 +0000

I realize you weren’t addressing me with this reply, but I explained why its perfectly legal on the first page of comments in response to paperlions.

By: bigleagues

bigleagues — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 19:53:15 +0000

Again, I addressed this on your earlier post, you are mis-construing the rule to fit your argument. First of all, let's make sure we have terms correct, OK? Because just like broadcasters I see people on here confusing the two interchangeably. It is obstruction when a fielder, without possession of the ball, impedes a runners clear path to a base. It's interference when a runner or the batter (intentionally or unintentionally) impede the fielder in his attempt to make a play on a ball. A fielder cannot obstruct the runners path to a base - if the fielder does not have possession of the ball. This includes, but is not limited to the Catcher - and most notable in plays at the plate. Thus, when a Catcher - or ANY fielder covering Home Plate - sets up to block the plate as the runner approaches Home and before the ball arrives, the fielder is making that decision at his own peril. The Catcher (or the fielder covering Home) has the choice to block the plate or, say, set-up to the Pitchers Mound side of Home (and not obstruct or 'block' Home Plate) catch the ball and attempt to sweep tag the runner before the runner touches home. But Catchers CHOOSE to block the plate, because it makes it more difficult for the runner to score. Again, they have a choice. They choose to block the plate. They get knocked out, it's on them. It's a hazard of the job. You may not like it, but I am yet to hear a convincing argument why it should be outlawed in the same way that, say, blind side hits of a Quarterback or hockey players have been. Sorry, not the same thing. Not even close to as dangerous.

By: kozinsky

kozinsky — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 18:40:50 +0000

Stlouie, if you don’t think that Molina’s intent, even after the throw was a off (debatable), was to not only receive the ball in the best spot to make a tag but also make it so Harrison didn’t have a clear path to the plate, you’re fooling yourself.

By: stlouis1baseball

stlouis1baseball — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 17:22:03 +0000

Party: Who said baseball is “devoid of contact?” Baseball is very much a contact sport.
Ever seen someone correctly break up a double play at 2nd?
Ever see someone get drilled in the back with a 95 MPH dart?
Ever see someone take out the 3rd Baseman on a close play?
Ever see someone get bowled over at the plate?
Ever see an Outfielder violently crash into the wall?
Ever see an Infielder or Outfielder dive over the wall in foul territory to catch a ball?
Yeah…no contact in Baseball huh?

By: stlouis1baseball

stlouis1baseball — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 17:19:08 +0000

Kozinsky: I don’t buy that you watch the replay several times. If so…you would know that he did NOT intentionally block (or “camp”) in the baseline.
The throw was a little up the line. He fielded the throw and turned to the runner. Bang. Bang.
Clean baseball play. Unfortunate for Yadier (and the Cardinals)…but clean.

By: bdvlad

bdvlad — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 15:34:29 +0000

It’s also important to remember that Harrison is tiny. He’s listed at 5’8″ and 190, and if you see him in person, those numbers might be padded a bit. He wasn’t aiming for the head – that just happens to be how his body lines up with the catcher’s when he leans in, because he’s so short.

Molina’s got three inches and 35 pounds Harrison by the listed height/weight info, not to mention all the body armor Molina was wearing. This could just as easily have turned out badly for Harrison, if the timing or positioning had been a bit different. I’m glad that Molina’s injury wasn’t as bad as it looked, because it was a hell of a smack. I was about ten rows back from the play as it happened, and I’ve seen NFL tackles that didn’t have that kind of force behind them.

By: kozinsky

kozinsky — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 15:34:02 +0000

I agree with that. After watching the replay on here several times, Harrison had no chance of scoring unless he took the shortest route. And molina should have made the tag at the plate rather than, once securing the ball, repositioning himself even more in Harrison’s path. Stupid on his part, and baseball shouldn’t allow that to happen.

By: jlprati

jlprati — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 15:28:32 +0000

if we actually enforce the interference rule instead of letting catchers camp in the baseline without the ball most of these collisions would not occur. I was at the game and Harrison had no where to go. there’s no give up line so he went the shortest distance between two points…. straight

By: kozinsky

kozinsky — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 15:23:10 +0000

Maybe baseball just needs to ban catchers from blocking the plate for everyones safety.

By: thereisaparty

thereisaparty — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 13:44:31 +0000

Or it is exciting because of the impact on the game. A run is more important than a guy reaching third. The excitement is tied to the base, not the chance of collision.

By: thereisaparty

thereisaparty — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 13:42:29 +0000

Yes the only options are clearly coed softball rules or continue to allow dangerous collisions. Instead of critically-thinking about realistic alternatives, we should make the argument that these players are getting paid and thus in a sport otherwise devoid of contact should be exposed to hits that would make a linebacker blush.

Baseball is not a static game. The current rules are not perfect. Why do fans accept it as so?

By: thereisaparty

thereisaparty — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 13:39:28 +0000

Just because collisions currently “r baseball” is not a legitimate reason for why this play’s existence should continue. At one point, you couldve argued that 8-pitch walks “r baseball”

By: thereisaparty

thereisaparty — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 13:34:41 +0000

“Soccer has outlawed slide tackles”? “Basketball has outlawed flagrant fouls”?

The first is completely false and the second one makes no sense. In fact, your whole argument makes no sense (and I think that this play neeeds to be outlawed). Most dangerous play is by definition what is allowed within the rules. There are infinite number of other possible plays that would be more dangerous if legal (ex. collision at second or third base).

And please back up your 20% number with facts.

By: stlouis1baseball

stlouis1baseball — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 13:10:33 +0000

Hahaha! No shit Marty. It’s one of several reasons I don’t play coed softball.

By: stlouis1baseball

stlouis1baseball — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 13:07:35 +0000

Absolutely Randy. In fact, there are a lot of us who were actually taught (from a very young age)…that we had as much right to that plate as the Catcher (should he be blocking it). As a Cardinals fan…Yadi getting hurt stinks. In fact, it’s huge. But it was a clean play. The throw was up the line…Yadier fielded the throw and essentially had time to turn into the runner and that was it.
A clean baseball play.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 12:12:48 +0000

Fun fact:

After Molina ran over Ruiz, the next time Philly played StL (which wasn’t for over a month). Molina was hit by a pitch. The next game, Molina was again hit by a pitch. It was only a 2 game series.

By: hittfamily

hittfamily — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 04:36:44 +0000

“Slow motion isn’t how the game is played, folks.”
“For anyone who has actually played the game, this was a classic bang-bang play.”
“Gorgeous legal play by Harrison”

Do enlighten me please. How is it legal, because when I read the actual rule book and don’t rely on what others have told me, it is illegal. I have also divulged hundreds of times, and HBT regulars know this, that I played D1 ball. I never made it pro, but this was illegal as shit when I was playing. Did you play pro ball, or are you just talking out of your ass?

By: hittfamily

hittfamily — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 04:30:50 +0000

Agreed. People who don’t capitalize aren’t legitimate commenters either.

By: Marty

Marty — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 04:30:08 +0000

A thug? Wow, curb your emotions. Would a proper young man just stop before home and say “awe, hells bells… there’s a guy in front of the plate.”

By: Marty

Marty — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 04:26:31 +0000

Thay should draw a chalk line 8 ft behind the plate and make it a force like they do in coed softball, because these aren’t professionals or anything.

By: dondada10

dondada10 — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 03:34:48 +0000

Hell of a post, Hitt

By: jlprati

jlprati — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 03:26:40 +0000

I’m guessing u don’t watch many pirates games because josh Harrison doesn’t play enough for him to b considered a thug.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 03:01:37 +0000

Now that you mention it, I do remember that play and thinking poorly of Yadi for doing it….it is always a cheap play. Of course, Yadi’s max speed is approximately 3 mph….still, running over a catcher is bad baseball.

By: Jonny 5

Jonny 5 — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 02:58:43 +0000

While I wholeheartedly agree, I must mention that Molina did not hesitate to level Ruiz this season on the same play. He was also out and might have snuck a tag in and been safe had he tried because it was that close. Molina has been on my Sh!t list since. I’m sure Molina will state it was a good play. I still agree with you that trying to destroy a tag out by dislodging the ball is bad baseball.

By: hittfamily

hittfamily — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 02:57:03 +0000

Look dickhead, a simple google search should prevent you from calling reasonable arguements absurd.

1) April 23- Jason Castro misses game after brutal collision with Matt Gamel (could have been horrible) http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1080796/collision-final.gif

2)Josh Thole went on the 7 day concussion disabled list after a home plate collision with Ty Willingham http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-05-08/news/31630291_1_josh-thole-collision-mets

3) May 14 – Sandy Leon, making his Major League Debut, suffered a sprained ankle after a collision with Chase Headley. http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120514&content_id=31255096&vkey=news_was&c_id=was

4) June 17th, Joe Mauer had to leave the game after a collision with Rickie Weeks. He missed 4 games. http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_20924645/joe-mauer-back-twins-lineup-justin-morneau-sits

5) August 11th-Mike Napoli is placed on the DL because of a lingering knee injury sustained caused by a homeplate collision with Miguel Olivo. http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/2012/08/rangers-put-napoli-on-dl.html/

6) August 28th – Yadier Molina

We still have a month to go. Should I make it 25% of starting catchers that are taken out every year?

Brian McCann was placed on the DL in 2006 because of a homeplate collision. Carlos Santana missed a season because of a home plate collision. Buster Posey was sidelined for a season because of a homeplate collision. Mike Napoli was put on the DL because of a homeplate collision. Any other big names I left out?

By: florida76

florida76 — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 02:17:25 +0000

Gorgeous legal play by Harrison, and a beautiful win as well. For anyone who has actually played the game, this was a classic bang-bang play. Slow motion isn’t how the game is played, folks.

Molina catches the ball low on the throw, and Harrison must assume in a split second he will be bringing the ball up to tag him in the upper body. Naturally, Harrison must lower his shoulder to try and dislodge the ball as he was sprinting towards the plate. Too bad Molina was injured, but that’s baseball. Had the roles been reversed, I would have not blamed the Cardinals.

Huge win for the Pirates tonight, who would have believed they are solidly in the playoff race near the end of August?

By: johnnyb1976

johnnyb1976 — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 01:58:17 +0000

Harrison is a thug, he plays cheap this isn’t the first time. The Reds hit him with a pitch at least once a series because he’s a cheap player. You know Dusty if he don’t like you his pitchers will throw at you ask Derrick Lowe.