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UPDATE: John Henry says Bobby V. is safe for the season

Sep 3, 2012, 1:24 PM EDT

Bobby Valentine

UPDATE:  OK, Valentine is safe for the season:


October 1, though? Well. Stay tuned.

8: 27 AM: Bobby Valentine:  The Emperor’s coming here?
Larry Lucchino: That is correct, Commander. And, he is most displeased with your apparent lack of progress.
Bobby Valentine: We shall double our efforts.
Larry Lucchino: I hope so, Commander, for your sake. The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am.

With the team in tatters on the West Coast — six straight losses, outscored in the six games by an astounding 54-15 — the Boston Herald’s Michael Silverman reported Monday morning that owner John Henry and general manager Ben Cherington have flown to Seattle, where the Sox will begin a three-game series against the Mariners today.

There have been no votes of confidence or anything like that. And there have been no real justifications for one even if there had been. It seems inevitable that Bobby Valentine is a one-and-done manager for the Red Sox, even if what has happened this year cannot be fairly laid at his feet.  He was dropped in to an untenable position to being with in a job unsuited to his strengths.

Still, failure is failure and it’s hard to envision a situation in which Valentine is the manager for this team in 2013.

  1. professor30 - Sep 3, 2012 at 8:37 AM

    it’s going to take a lot for larry to eat some crow and fire this clown but it has to be done. i’m guessing tim bogar gets the interim job and hopefully the full time gig.

    • proudlycanadian - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:06 AM

      Instead of facing the red hot Mariners, it looks as if Bobby V. will walk the plank. He will probably be grateful for the end of the season long farce.

      • andrewproughcfe - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:40 AM

        Got to wonder what self-respecting manager or free agent will ever want to work for these vile fans or ownership group again. The road back from the abyss looks like it will be long and tortuous.

        Hard to believe that 5 short years ago, these guys and their juicing sluggers were champs.

    • bigleagues - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:17 AM

      In case I missed it, Larry Lucchino isn’t part of the Imperial Cruiser contigent that’s due to arrived in Seattle 3 parsecs ago.

      • sabatimus - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:45 AM

        I applaud your mis-usage of parsec, because Han himself misused it–a parsec is a unit of distance, not time 😀

      • bigleagues - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:57 AM


      • bleedgreen - Sep 3, 2012 at 1:19 PM

        However, in 3d space, you’re not limited to traveling AROUND anything. 3 parsecs MAY be true. It may be the shortest route anyone has ever found to get through the kessel run.

        So it is technically not an inaccurate statement.

    • bigleagues - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:17 AM

      In case I missed it, Larry Lucchino isn’t part of the Imperial Cruiser contingent that’s due to arrived in Seattle 3 parsecs ago.

  2. fissels - Sep 3, 2012 at 8:38 AM

    Bobby was a bad choice made worse by the types of players on the team. Clean house, get a young manager and let the kids play!

  3. cur68 - Sep 3, 2012 at 8:42 AM

    The is nigh for BV? Ah, parting is such sweet sorrow that he should say goodnight till…well, just say goodnight Bobby, please?

    This is more than the losses, I think. If he’s done, done right there in Seattle, then its because of the chaos in his dugout becasue this is as much about his lack of leadership when leadership was called for as it is about the losses. He looked awful during the exchange between Pedroia & Aceves. If he isn’t fired today, he should be.

    • pisano - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:48 AM

      cur68…. I agree, and while their at it they should try to get rid of Pedroia, that sneaky little sob is a big part of the disruption in the ranks. They should try to trade him in the off season or as sap. Valentine reminds me of Humphrey Bogart in the movie, The Caine Mutiny , and Pedroia is leading the mutiny.

      • yankeesfanlen - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:12 AM

        Who ate the shtrwbewries? Disloyal Officers!

      • Old Gator - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:24 AM

        And I’ll tell you something else. Theft of fried chicken and beer from the clubhouse buffet table during a civil war is a serious violation of protocol!

      • teaspoon1731 - Sep 3, 2012 at 11:24 AM

        Pisano, seriously, what is your deal with Pedroia? You seek out every single Sox posting just to write something about him being a cancer, a runt, a rat, anything. What did he ever do to you? I don’t have this level of hate for anyone. You need a hobby or therapy or something.

      • bozosforall - Sep 3, 2012 at 12:58 PM


        As opposed to the way that Red Sox fans go after Yankee players? STHU.

      • cur68 - Sep 3, 2012 at 4:59 PM

        The only person who makes a consistent ass of themselves on these here bloggy pages is YOU bozo. Pisan has but one understandable mission; reduce the Sox by doing what he can to swing sentiment away from Pedroia. All in an effort to get rid of the BoSox’s best remaining player. He mostly manages this without being as massive an asshole as you. Try and take notes, ya douche.

      • teaspoon1731 - Sep 3, 2012 at 6:12 PM

        For the record it annoys me just as much when Sox fans jump in with “Aroid” and such. My question was why pisano singles out the one player when he has ample cause to crucify other Sox personnel. Since your name is not Pisano, you STHU.

      • bozosforall - Sep 4, 2012 at 12:26 AM

        Cur, worry about your weak ass Blue Gheys, douchebag.

      • bozosforall - Sep 4, 2012 at 12:29 AM

        Teaspoon, call out your own before you try to tell me what to do. Plenty of delusional Boston crybabies that need to be set straight before you call anyone else out.

    • Old Gator - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:33 AM

      I dunno – he looked pretty copacetic to me while Aceves and Pedroia went at it. He let his coaches and players keep them apart while he contemplated…otherness. That, to me, bespeaks a very effective system of delegation. I think I’d hire him to manage my mortgage backed securities portfolio in a minute.

      • pisano - Sep 3, 2012 at 11:47 AM

        teaspoon1731…. it’s more than obvious I never thought much of this guy, especially with this laser show bs. I honestly feel a lot of this turmoil in the club house is his doing. I know Valentine is no prize, but when the troops turn against you it only gets worse, and yes, he created this monster, but he didn’t need someone stirring the pot, but what really pissed me off was he tried to play innocent. If you said something, man up and cop to it, don’t try to play it off. I can see you defending him as you’re a Sox fan, but I said last season he’ll be a memory in Boston in five years, so after this season there’s three more to go, I hope he doesn’t disappoint me. By the way, is he still doing your mom?

      • teaspoon1731 - Sep 3, 2012 at 6:15 PM

        As a Sox hater though, why do you care if someone is causing trouble in their clubhouse? I mean, our opinions obviously differ on that subject, but if I were to learn Jeter was causing drama and wars and ridiculousness in NY’s clubhouse, I would find that funny not infuriating.

        And my mother seemed in good spirits yesterday, so I assume he is.

      • pisano - Sep 3, 2012 at 8:01 PM

        cur68… Thanks, I see you understand my mission.

    • bigleagues - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:55 AM

      Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Gordon Edes apparently got a straight up denial from Henry and Cherington that their trip is for the purposes of dismissing Valentine . . .

      Boston Red Sox owner John W. Henry is in Seattle, but said in an email he is not there to fire manager Bobby Valentine, despite rampant speculation that the team’s disastrous West Coast swing might prompt him to do so.

      “No!” he wrote in answer to a question of whether he had gone to Seattle for that purpose.

      General manager Ben Cherington also has joined the club in Seattle, where the Red Sox begin a three-game series Monday after being swept by the Angels and Athletics in the first two legs of this trip, losing six games while being outscored, 54-15, but said he was planning to do so all along.

      “Nothing going on other than a bad losing streak,” Cherington wrote in an email.

      A team source reiterated Monday that despite the appearances of a “death watch,” Valentine’s fate will not be addressed until after the season. The 62-year-old Valentine has a year remaining on the two-year contract he signed last December.

      And Werner danced around the issue in an interview with Peter Abraham the other day in a way that would seem to bolster ownership’s assertion that nothing is going to happen on the Bobby front until after the season.

      • pisano - Sep 3, 2012 at 8:08 PM

        teaspoon1731…. I hear what your saying, but I’ve always had a thing against backstabbers and ass kissers and Pedroia has portrayed that to me. I’m glad your mom is in good spirits, you know this is all in fun, no harm meant.

      • teaspoon1731 - Sep 3, 2012 at 8:23 PM

        Pisano, we cool. I don’t mind rivalry and rock throwing between fans. Now that I understand your position better, rant on my friend. Rant on.

  4. mempusa - Sep 3, 2012 at 8:45 AM


    • proudlycanadian - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:01 AM

      The guy to watch is currently the first base coach in Toronto. He has a history with the Red Sox.

      • professor30 - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:28 AM

        Torrey Lovullo i believe is that guy.

    • willclarkgameface - Sep 3, 2012 at 11:08 AM

      Varitek is NOT a leader. I don’t care about the “C” that donned his jersey for 7 years. You want to know who is probably most responsible for that collapse last September?


      Where is the captain when all this nonsense is going on? Lord knows he wasn’t playing. He was on the pine and could have put the kibosh on the chicken and beer thing real quick, but did he? NOPE.

      Varitek is a loser and needs to be recognized as such.

    • bigharold - Sep 3, 2012 at 1:18 PM


      Yeah, .. bring on Captain Sucker Punch!! Cause he displayed exemplary leadership last September.

      If they make The Captain manager I hope he gets a ten year deal, .. that way it’ll be 15 years before the RS contend again.

  5. danaking - Sep 3, 2012 at 8:48 AM

    Tito admitted he’d lost the clubhouse. What was needed was a leader with a different enough style to get the players’ attention, not an arrogant prick.

  6. carkmonsta - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:00 AM

    Yeah, bring back THE CAPTAIN, the guy who sat around collecting a pay check while the team and clubhouse crumbled…. AND SAID NOTHING.

    I’ve pretty much walked away from this team and their never ending quest for the phony sellout streak, selling 100 Year commemorative coffee table books, bricks and having the pink hats sing Sweet Caroline while down 9-1 in the middle of the eighth. If they hire Varitek for anything other than a minor league catching instructor job I will be completely gone(and I’m sure many others will be as well)

    • teaspoon1731 - Sep 3, 2012 at 11:40 AM

      I think Varitek has the makings of a decent manager. However, to bring him in now, with no experience, and expect him to coach guys he played with when he’s only a year removed? Terrible idea. Start him off with some minor league team, let him develop and see what happens.

  7. fuddpucker - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:03 AM

    I like Bobby but he’s got too many strikes against him, including some of the stupid shit he does all by himself. He needs to be involved in the major leagues but no more managing.

    Plus, he seems like he’s about to have a heart attack any moment now. Give Bobby and everybody a break and end this madness NOW.

  8. tfbuckfutter - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:16 AM

    After he’s fired Larry Lucchino is going to try and sneak him back into the manager position by putting a mustache and glasses on him.

    • kiwicricket - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:27 AM

      That’s the only way Bobby is going to get a managers gig again.

  9. jrbdmb - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:26 AM

    Well BV and Cherington have certainly made a mess of things … kinda makes you yearn for the days of Tito and Theo.

    • tfbuckfutter - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:30 AM

      It makes me long for the days of Dan Duquette and sleepy Jimy Williams.

      • heelbostonfan - Sep 3, 2012 at 11:48 AM

        “Manager’s decision”

    • willclarkgameface - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:36 AM

      There was (mostly) nothing wrong with the days of Tito and Theo. While I will still debate that Theo had little to nothing to do with winning 2 championships in Boston besides taking a chance on a middle of the road DH platoon guy out of Minnesota, Tito did a better job than Bobby V and the team was pretty good from 2003 (Grady) until last September.

      Sure Tito and Theo got into it, but who doesn’t when you’re in the trenches that long together. They just managed to keep it away from that buffoon Sean McAdam.

      Ben is a dope.
      Larry is an overprotective hawk.
      John Henry doesn’t know what day it is (a smart, disconnected dope).
      Tom keeps counting his Cosby money.

      • skeleteeth - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:54 AM

        I don’t think Epstein was that involved with getting Beckett and Lowell to Boston but he most certainly was involved with the 2004 team; going to AZ on Thanksgiving 2003 to woo Schilling to accept a trade and then putting the final pieces together in July by trading the face of the franchise for essential cogs that turned out to be even more important than anything Nomar ever did in a Red Sox uniform. 2004 is why people put so much faith in him.

      • tfbuckfutter - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:05 AM

        Don’t want to play with history too much…..but the current state of the franchise is Theo’s fault. The farm system is barren, and they just had to dump bad contracts.

        Granted he was involved in the development of Pedroia, Papelbon, Lester, and Ellsbury (whether he drafted them or not I’m not going to look it up, he was at least over seeing the franchise when they came along)…..but the farm system sucks and it’s his fault.

        He hit big on Ortiz and sort of on Millar (but let’s also not forget he expected Jeremy Giambi to be the starting first baseman and got lucky on Ortiz….and even then it took WAY too long for him to be installed as the full time DH), and then he just went crazy signing guys to contracts that FAR exceeded anything they had accomplished up to that point…..Edgar Renteria? His OPS+ was 88 when Theo signed him to a big contract. And I like Crawford, he’s a good guy and busted his ass in Tampa….but the guy never had ONE season where you could say “He’s worth $20 million.” I won’t lay Lackey’s implosion on him though because Lackey was a consistent player (and at least he wasn’t an NL import where you can expect a dip in production).

        Theo maybe got a little more credit then he deserved for getting lucky on a couple moves, and he probably coasted a little longer than he should have on that inflated reputation. And now here we are.

      • willclarkgameface - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:38 AM

        We won’t know what Theo’s legacy will be until he has had time away from Larry.

        It is my belief that the BIG boys [maybe sometimes not in terms of name, but price tag], guys like Lugo, Drew, Schilling trade, AGon, Crawford, and Lackey were Larry’s deals.

        And don’t ask me why I want to believe that. I just do. Probably because I believe in youth and the power of being able to overlook the numbers and use your eyes when you have to.

        I think Theo was probably allowed to do the smaller deals, deals like the initial Ortiz deal, Renteria, and anything else that wouldn’t threaten Larry’s hold on the baseball ops.

        What I do know is this: Theo gets credit and takes it willingly for TWO championships. He inherited those teams, straight up. One from Duquette and one from Larry.

        Once the Cubs win we will know what he is capable of. Until then, I feel like he’s overrated.

    • Cyn - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:42 AM

      Ah, Tito and Theo. The guys who, last September, helped create this mess Bobby and Ben inherited.

      • willclarkgameface - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:42 AM

        Helped. You left out all the other ass holes in the front office and the empowered players themselves. Everyone gets a slice of that blame pie down on Yawkey. I’m not going to give as much to Tito because you know what? Men need to be men and MAN UP. Don’t screw around on your team. Be there to cheer them on and be a good teammate. Don’t go to the back and drink when you’re finished.

        Tito will manage again (Lord knows he has to because he’s barely present on those ESPN broadcasts) and I hope it’s his second goal after winning to make sure Boston loses big every year.

  10. willclarkgameface - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:28 AM

    Bobby Valentine got sucker punched by Larry Lucchino and LIFE.

    He’ll never manage in MLB again and yeah, I do actually feel bad for him. Even with all his ridiculous antics he should have been granted professional behavior, but he knew the score coming in: this was a clubhouse filled with immature malcontents. He couldn’t have changed that even if he wanted to.

    This team is on pace to lose 88 games. I hope the Seattle series goes horribly and by the time October 3 comes around, we’re looking at a 90 loss team, one for the books. Serves everyone in that front office right.

    • teaspoon1731 - Sep 3, 2012 at 11:16 AM

      A man who airs his issues in the press is not a man who understands perfessional behavior. He began the season by questioning Youk, who, like him or not, was a respected member of that team. Valentine created drama and disrespect. The status of the team, and your belief of their immaturity, not withstanding. No team is going to respect a man who publically disses them, nor should they be expected to.

      • teaspoon1731 - Sep 3, 2012 at 11:43 AM

        Side note, did I really type perfessional? Oy. *professional

  11. sidelineshot - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:37 AM

    A storied baseball franchise like the Red Sox should not have a guy like Valentine making up the lineup.

    Big miscalculation by Luchino. Let Cherrington handle it.

  12. skeleteeth - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:46 AM

    Firing him with a month to go does nothing to make a supposed statement, which is something that could easily and more appropriately be done in the off-season. I really don’t know what the thought process is with ownership these days. If this is more than Cherington traveling to Seattle as he intended before the road trip, relieving Valentine will then somehow be spun as a necessary change with the front office giving the impression they are cleaning up someone else’s mess, as was the case with the unloading of Gonzalez and Crawford’s contracts.

    If it’s accountability they’re looking for then they need not look any further than their own reflections in a mirror.

  13. stairwayto7 - Sep 3, 2012 at 9:57 AM

    Get rid of the bald headed child..PEDRIOA! overrated!

    • pisano - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:09 AM

      I couldn’t agree more, he’s the cancer on that team.

  14. yankeesfanlen - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:16 AM

    As a Yankees fan, I say sign him fo another 10 years.
    As a baseball fan I don’t understand how anyone hired him in the first place.

    • Old Gator - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:29 AM

      Hey, remember where he eenterviewed first. Gee, and to theenk that if not for the leetle Chihuahua’s boca grande, we could have had heem managing the Feesh instead.

  15. bigleagues - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:30 AM

    If we surf past the linked aggregated CSNNE content over to the originating Michael Silverman column in the Boston Herald, there are some far more interesting tidbits to be culled:

    “One of (the) biggest issues we’ve had is that Bill James was a great resource for us but fell out of favor over the last few years for reasons I really don’t understand. We’ve gotten him more involved recently in the central process and that will help greatly.

    “He’s the father, so to speak, of baseball analysis and a brilliant iconoclast who looks at things differently from everyone else. But Ben is the right person to make the final decisions for the club.

    -John Henry on the decision making process for the club moving forward.

    And two things I have been WAITING to hear come out of Mr. Henry’s mouth for some time:

    “Next year is going to be about one thing: winning the AL East in 2013 and setting the stage for the next few years,” he said. “We used to be satisfied with making the playoffs, but with the addition of a second wild card forcing a one-game playoff, we need to set a goal now annually to win the division.

    “Given where we are right now, it’s a tall order to win the division next year. But we have to do everything we can to contend without repeating errors of the past — something we are determined to avoid. We strayed from our core philosophy over the past few years and have paid a terrible price for that.”

    AND the admission that has been needed for FAR TOO LONG:

    “Personally I don’t believe in bridge years, because you cannot accurately predict the performance of minor league players that well,” he said. “That being said, you have to have a strong system. You need strong evaluators. We’ve let too many young prospects go and have also paid a price for that.

    I feel personally responsible for not protecting the farm system over the past few years. I knew better.”

    It sounds as if the apocalypse is about to come to a merciful conclusion and a sense of renewal and peace will hopefully once again merge in New England.

    • bigleagues - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:31 AM


  16. thegonz13 - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:38 AM

    Why did they hire this out-of-touch bonehead in the first place?

  17. giantssb42champs - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:54 AM

    The new curse. The Curse of Theo. One year and counting…

  18. baseballbum - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:58 AM

    Yes, Bobby V was put into a very tough situation. But No, he didn’t rise above it and make the team perform better. They are as bad as you can get right now. You can’t watch them play, it is embarrassing. I cannot believe how they have fallen in such a short time. It was obvious for some time that they needed better starting pitching. In the American League where most teams are stacked and can hit, you need to be able to out pitch the other team. How many times have the Redsox done that this year? How many times have the Orioles done it? There you go. That, coupled with fact that you need a manager and coaching staff who knows when it is time to remove the pitcher an who should come in. Girardi knows, Showalter knows, Maddon knows, Ventura knows, Leyland knows, Washington knows. Valentine has not known all year. It is so time for a change. Please do not wait any longer. Especially if you want free agents to play in Boston.

  19. hushbrother - Sep 3, 2012 at 10:59 AM

    It is probably best to fire Valentine, just in the interest of blowing up this team and completely starting over, but the question is, who is out there who’s so good who should replace him? And if that person exists, then why didn’t the Red Sox hire him before this season in the first place? My guess is that such a manager doesn’t exist, and that if John McGraw or Joe McCarthy had been hired to manage the 2012 Red Sox the team would still have underachieved.

    But hey, at least we would have seen a few more complete games.

  20. yyyass - Sep 3, 2012 at 11:01 AM

    Congratulations Boston. You have officially switched places with Baltimore for tne next decade. Enjoy. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

    • willclarkgameface - Sep 3, 2012 at 11:12 AM

      Not so fast, mijo.

      While the dopes in the Boston front office ARE dopes, at least they aren’t CHEAP dopes that refuse to at least try to win. Angelos has refused to try the winning thing for 15 years. There’s no cure for NOT TRYING.

      And Baltimore is a decent team, but let’s be honest – they are playing WAY above their heads right now.

  21. skeleteeth - Sep 3, 2012 at 11:17 AM

  22. manchestermiracle - Sep 3, 2012 at 11:21 AM

    Way too much attention being paid to a program going down in flames. Believe it or not there are a whole bunch of much better baseball stories (and games) being played out in the bigs. Like the fiasco at Penn State, how much longer is everyone going to block traffic in order to stare at the wreck?

  23. rc33 - Sep 3, 2012 at 11:38 AM

    There isn’t a thing on earth Bobby V. coulda done that would’ve salvaged the season with this pathetic bunch. I actually feel bad for the guy. This team was a complete and thorough embarrassment. That said, the L.A. trade was a gift from God because beyond question, it was time to tear it down and start over again, and the sooner the better. I’ll miss Gonzo but there is ZERO chance the Red Sox look back 3 years from now and wish they hadn’t dumped $271 million in salary on the Dodgers. I certainly would’ve taken nothing in return but props to Cherington for picking up a couple worthwhile pitching prospects. Thanks Earvin!

  24. alexb64 - Sep 3, 2012 at 11:54 AM

    Knowing this organization Bobby Valentine could not be in the dugout for the rest of the season & telling the media he was fired while Henry & Pedroia deny he isn’t managing the team anymore & that there’s any tension in the clubhouse. “This is a media driven story. No story here. Now if you’ll excuse me our manager who is not Bobby Valentine called for a team meeting just to talk about how fine everything is here. But Bobby Valentine has NOT lost this team & will not be fired.”

  25. uyf1950 - Sep 3, 2012 at 12:04 PM

    I wonder if John Henry and Company are flying out to Seattle to tell Bobby he won’t be allowed on the Team Plane on the trip back to Boston, he’s going to have to fly a commercial flight. Oh and btw Bobby you will be sitting next to Alfredo Aceves.

    • bigleagues - Sep 3, 2012 at 2:05 PM

      Sorry, but WEAK.

      Aceves was SUSPENDED – that is WHY he was not allowed on the Team Charter. Aceves isn’t the first, nor is he the last to be forbidden to board the team charter while under team suspension. And the practice is hardly unique to the Red Sox.

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