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	<title>Comments on: R.A. Dickey defeats Cardinals, is first to 18 wins</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/</link>
	<description>Baseball. Baseball. And then a bit more baseball.</description>
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		<title>By: salvomania</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359852</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[salvomania]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 15:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359852</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Buckeye, the problem with WAR is that it&#039;s not like strikeouts or hits allowed: it&#039;s a made-up number that&#039;s calculated differently by different people that factor different things into it when doing the math.

That&#039;s why the WAR as calculated by Fangraphs has Cueto with 4.6 WAR and Dickey with 4.4---still a lead for Cueto, but statistically insignificant, and, more importantly, an indication that while the stat may be a useful ingredient in a discussion it&#039;s certainly not an argument ender.

It&#039;s like fielding metrics: the several different systems and their metrics often disagree on whether a given player is even a good or bad fielder. If you look at all the numbers, though, and they&#039;re pretty consistent on one (or several) player(s), then that offers a level of confidence in making a comparison but not a whole lot more.

Once could make a case that Dickey&#039;s 5 complete games (to Cueto&#039;s 2) and his 3 shutouts (to Cueto&#039;s zero) and his over 7 ip per start (to Cueto&#039;s 6.7) outweigh any lead Cueto may have in WAR (6.0 to 5.0 per bb-ref&#039;s WAR formula).

Either of the two, though, would be a deserving choice for the award, assuming neither has a meltdown or two in the next few weeks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Buckeye, the problem with WAR is that it&#8217;s not like strikeouts or hits allowed: it&#8217;s a made-up number that&#8217;s calculated differently by different people that factor different things into it when doing the math.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why the WAR as calculated by Fangraphs has Cueto with 4.6 WAR and Dickey with 4.4&#8212;still a lead for Cueto, but statistically insignificant, and, more importantly, an indication that while the stat may be a useful ingredient in a discussion it&#8217;s certainly not an argument ender.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like fielding metrics: the several different systems and their metrics often disagree on whether a given player is even a good or bad fielder. If you look at all the numbers, though, and they&#8217;re pretty consistent on one (or several) player(s), then that offers a level of confidence in making a comparison but not a whole lot more.</p>
<p>Once could make a case that Dickey&#8217;s 5 complete games (to Cueto&#8217;s 2) and his 3 shutouts (to Cueto&#8217;s zero) and his over 7 ip per start (to Cueto&#8217;s 6.7) outweigh any lead Cueto may have in WAR (6.0 to 5.0 per bb-ref&#8217;s WAR formula).</p>
<p>Either of the two, though, would be a deserving choice for the award, assuming neither has a meltdown or two in the next few weeks.</p>
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		<title>By: lazlosother</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359849</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lazlosother]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 15:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359849</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you are going to use WAR, try not to be too brainless about it.  First, there is more than one type of WAR.  The most popular seem to be Fangraphs and Baseball Reference.  Note which one you are using.

Fangraphs has Cueto third among pitchers with 4.6, Dickey next with 4.4.  Gio and Kershaw rate higher than Cueto.  Baseball Reference has Cueto at 6, Dickey at 5.

WAR is an excellent stat, but it is not so exact that a difference of 1 or less can be considered the basis for selecting one player over another for MVP or CY Young, especially with the different ratings between the top two, and the other stats available.  To assume that the difference &quot;blows Dickey out of the water&quot; is the thought of a moron.

There is a decent argument for Cueto.  You weren&#039;t smart enough to make it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you are going to use WAR, try not to be too brainless about it.  First, there is more than one type of WAR.  The most popular seem to be Fangraphs and Baseball Reference.  Note which one you are using.</p>
<p>Fangraphs has Cueto third among pitchers with 4.6, Dickey next with 4.4.  Gio and Kershaw rate higher than Cueto.  Baseball Reference has Cueto at 6, Dickey at 5.</p>
<p>WAR is an excellent stat, but it is not so exact that a difference of 1 or less can be considered the basis for selecting one player over another for MVP or CY Young, especially with the different ratings between the top two, and the other stats available.  To assume that the difference &#8220;blows Dickey out of the water&#8221; is the thought of a moron.</p>
<p>There is a decent argument for Cueto.  You weren&#8217;t smart enough to make it.</p>
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		<title>By: natstowngreg</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359840</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[natstowngreg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 15:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359840</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My point was that Dickey and Cueto aren&#039;t the only Cy Young candidates. I&#039;m afraid you missed that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point was that Dickey and Cueto aren&#8217;t the only Cy Young candidates. I&#8217;m afraid you missed that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: manchestermiracle</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359801</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[manchestermiracle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 14:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Even more impressive when you look at the team he&#039;s on.....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even more impressive when you look at the team he&#8217;s on&#8230;..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: buckeye2280</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359794</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[buckeye2280]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 14:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359794</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Except he is not the leader for the CY Young no matter how much the idiot writer or comment posters want to believe.  Johnny Cueto is your CY YOUNG right now.  

And idiots, here is a stat that is blows R.A out of the water.

W.A.R
1	Mike Trout	LAA	9.3
2	Robinson Cano	NYY	6.2
3	Justin Verlander	DET	6.1
4	Johnny Cueto	CIN	6.0
5	David Wright	NYM	5.9
 	Miguel Cabrera	DET	5.9
7	Ryan Braun	MIL	5.8
 	Michael Bourn	ATL	5.8
9	Yadier Molina	STL	5.5
10	Adrian Beltre	TEX	5.4

Do you see Dickey here.  Nope. Cueto and Verlander are the only 2 pitchers in the top 10.  Guess who is your CY Young.  Stupid NY writers and idiot fans that think if the team isn&#039;t on the coast then they are irrelevant. 

Oh and Met Fans, what happened the last time your vaunted Dickey Faced the 1st Place Reds.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except he is not the leader for the CY Young no matter how much the idiot writer or comment posters want to believe.  Johnny Cueto is your CY YOUNG right now.  </p>
<p>And idiots, here is a stat that is blows R.A out of the water.</p>
<p>W.A.R<br />
1	Mike Trout	LAA	9.3<br />
2	Robinson Cano	NYY	6.2<br />
3	Justin Verlander	DET	6.1<br />
4	Johnny Cueto	CIN	6.0<br />
5	David Wright	NYM	5.9<br />
 	Miguel Cabrera	DET	5.9<br />
7	Ryan Braun	MIL	5.8<br />
 	Michael Bourn	ATL	5.8<br />
9	Yadier Molina	STL	5.5<br />
10	Adrian Beltre	TEX	5.4</p>
<p>Do you see Dickey here.  Nope. Cueto and Verlander are the only 2 pitchers in the top 10.  Guess who is your CY Young.  Stupid NY writers and idiot fans that think if the team isn&#8217;t on the coast then they are irrelevant. </p>
<p>Oh and Met Fans, what happened the last time your vaunted Dickey Faced the 1st Place Reds.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ajcardsfan</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359781</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ajcardsfan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359781</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Got to watch R.A. and Shelby Miller pitch, and even though we lost, I&#039;ll take it. I want a knuckleballing Cy Young winner.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got to watch R.A. and Shelby Miller pitch, and even though we lost, I&#8217;ll take it. I want a knuckleballing Cy Young winner.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: unlost1</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359768</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[unlost1]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[only thing is Cueto plays on a winning team and that&#039;s what the voters like]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>only thing is Cueto plays on a winning team and that&#8217;s what the voters like</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: giantssb42champs</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359744</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[giantssb42champs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359744</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[R.A. = C.Y.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R.A. = C.Y.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: oltanya</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359725</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[oltanya]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359725</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you&#039;re going to use silly stats like wins and ERA (not that they&#039;re not relevant to the CY, but bear with me), citing them with a &quot;Just sayin&#039;&quot; when they&#039;re unequivocally worse than RA&#039;s is rather shortsighted]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re going to use silly stats like wins and ERA (not that they&#8217;re not relevant to the CY, but bear with me), citing them with a &#8220;Just sayin&#8217;&#8221; when they&#8217;re unequivocally worse than RA&#8217;s is rather shortsighted</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: natslady</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359706</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[natslady]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359706</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have to agree.  Gio CG shutout against that very same  &quot;one of the best offenses in the NL.&quot;   Nothing to sneeze at.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have to agree.  Gio CG shutout against that very same  &#8220;one of the best offenses in the NL.&#8221;   Nothing to sneeze at.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: natstowngreg</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359705</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[natstowngreg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[18-7, 2.98. Just sayin&#039;... 

Seven shutout innings, 3 H, 9 K. Granted, it was the Cubs, but it came a start after shutting out the Cards.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>18-7, 2.98. Just sayin&#8217;&#8230; </p>
<p>Seven shutout innings, 3 H, 9 K. Granted, it was the Cubs, but it came a start after shutting out the Cards.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: chill1184</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359696</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chill1184]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359696</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The media&#039;s mental midgets continue to look for ways to say that Dickey doesn&#039;t deserve the Cy Young but he continues to deny them. Getting a quality victory over one of the best offenses in the NL is nothing to sneeze at.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The media&#8217;s mental midgets continue to look for ways to say that Dickey doesn&#8217;t deserve the Cy Young but he continues to deny them. Getting a quality victory over one of the best offenses in the NL is nothing to sneeze at.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: natslady</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359690</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[natslady]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gio Gio Gio GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gio Gio Gio GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO GIO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: salvomania</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359668</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[salvomania]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 01:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dickey showed he can flummox a Cardinals lineup that was resting four .300 hitters: Holliday, Craig, Freese and Molina. (jk---he&#039;s a great story, and he&#039;s having a great season.)

I was more interested to see Shelby Miller have a great debut in relief: 2 innings, 4 K&#039;s , zero runs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dickey showed he can flummox a Cardinals lineup that was resting four .300 hitters: Holliday, Craig, Freese and Molina. (jk&#8212;he&#8217;s a great story, and he&#8217;s having a great season.)</p>
<p>I was more interested to see Shelby Miller have a great debut in relief: 2 innings, 4 K&#8217;s , zero runs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: professormaddog31</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359647</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[professormaddog31]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 00:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359647</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The fact that he&#039;s this dominant with just a knuckleball in his bag of tricks is impressive, at least in my (very humble) opinion.All things considered I think he&#039;s had a more interesting season. Plus I wonder what his very strong performance in the All-Star Game might help when it comes to voting...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that he&#8217;s this dominant with just a knuckleball in his bag of tricks is impressive, at least in my (very humble) opinion.All things considered I think he&#8217;s had a more interesting season. Plus I wonder what his very strong performance in the All-Star Game might help when it comes to voting&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: dondada10</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359646</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dondada10]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 00:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359646</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First 18 game winner for the Mets since Viola (20) and Gooden (19) in 1990.  

CY Young.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First 18 game winner for the Mets since Viola (20) and Gooden (19) in 1990.  </p>
<p>CY Young.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: dalucks</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359628</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dalucks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2012 23:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359628</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[He will be a great leader for all of the young pitchers in the Mets farm system.  He is the CY Young favorite at this point of the season.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He will be a great leader for all of the young pitchers in the Mets farm system.  He is the CY Young favorite at this point of the season.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jssgriffi</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359624</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jssgriffi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2012 23:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cy Young!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cy Young!!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: succulentnipples</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359620</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[succulentnipples]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2012 23:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359620</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do you smoke the dicky pipe?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you smoke the dicky pipe?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: keithbangedyermom</title>
		<link>http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/05/r-a-dickey-defeats-cardinals-is-first-to-18-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-359617</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[keithbangedyermom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2012 23:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=207694#comment-359617</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[CY YOUNG]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CY YOUNG</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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