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Quote of the Day: Bobby Valentine

Sep 10, 2012, 9:42 AM EDT

“Only three more weeks of this”

Bobby Valentine, after yesterday’s loss to the Jays.  He probably only meant three more weeks to go in the season, but I assume he meant his managerial career too.

  1. bloodysock - Sep 10, 2012 at 9:44 AM

    Three weeks too many.

    • ptfu - Sep 10, 2012 at 9:52 AM

      BV surely agrees with you, on all counts.

    • bigharold - Sep 10, 2012 at 10:48 AM

      “Three weeks too many.”

      No No!!! Bobby Valentine should get a life time contract. He should live as long as Johnny Pesky and manage the RS until he dies. Hell, .. make him the GM too.

      You just can’t get enough of Bobby V. He invented the wrap ya’know? Just ask’em , .. he’ll tell ya.

  2. chill1184 - Sep 10, 2012 at 9:58 AM

    Whats that saying about digging holes again?……

  3. pisano - Sep 10, 2012 at 10:01 AM

    I could be wrong, but I don’t see him coming back next season. He created his own monster with the Sox. His mouth and small man complex did him in. The team and the devout Boston fans deserve better than Valentine, and he probably ruined his chances for ever managing for any other team.

  4. stex52 - Sep 10, 2012 at 10:02 AM

    Even though that is undoubtedly true; it’s got to be considered one more case of foot in mouth. Ownership and local media is just going to love a manager who clearly has given up and is counting the days.

    There may be some who consider his candor refreshing. I have to say at this point he just comes off as stupid.

  5. deathmonkey41 - Sep 10, 2012 at 10:18 AM

    He just can’t wait to go on vacation somewhere and get more tan.

  6. bigleagues - Sep 10, 2012 at 10:18 AM

    I’m pretty sure it’s over for Bobby.

    But that doesn’t a change one thing about the lazy opportunistic piling on and scapegoating of poor performance heaped on Bobby Valentine by the Boston and national media.

    Admittedly, Valentine has made statements that an unimaginative, typically humorless media made their own assumptions about woven into stories as fact, which portrayed in Valentine in a far more negative fashion than was justified.

    What’s particularly fascinating is that as this season went further an further into the abyss, seemingly more and more of the hardcore Red Sox fans have expressed support for Valentine. Why? Because Bobby doesn’t play pretend. Red Sox players, on the other hand, have been playing pretend since this time last season.

    So 2013 likely means a return to a safe, stale, player-ass-kissing, corporate speak type-manager.

    And, if Cherington is successful in acquiring the right talent, Lester gets his balls back again, Buchholz continues to show why the Sox have had faith in him, Lackey returns to his pre-injury form (his Angels days, that is. He’s basically been injured his entire time in Boston), Middlebrooks avoids a sophomore slump, and Ellsbury has a modicum of his power game return – then the Sox have a chance to be really good again in short order.

    IF.

    • cur68 - Sep 10, 2012 at 10:29 AM

      And they need to lock up Ortiz. He’s their big bat now that AGonz is gonz. If they don’t, then they better get a clone to replace him…I hear that kid Babe Ruf might be available.

      • deathmonkey41 - Sep 10, 2012 at 10:32 AM

        Plus he’ll most likely cry like a little girl if he doesn’t get a contract If I wanted to hear someone whine like that, I’d ask my girlfriend had her day went and actually listen.

      • bigleagues - Sep 10, 2012 at 10:56 AM

        Agreed on Ortiz.

        It would seem that things are moving in the right direction between the Ortiz and the Sox. The Sox know he’s the player most beloved and revered by the fans, and the very public early season contract tirade aside, he’s been a great public interface for the organization throughout his career.

        On the flipside, Ortiz has to be somewhat reasonable in what he is looking for. He will be 37 next season and missed most of the second half with one of those its-bound-to-happen-to-an-older-player-type injuries.

        My prediction: 2-year-deal at $13M-14M per year with performance kickers that could get his total compensation into the $16M range in each of those years, plus one or two mutual option years at a lesser guaranteed rate (say, $9M-$10M) with performance kickers.

      • hittfamily - Sep 10, 2012 at 12:12 PM

        I don’t understand why they would bring Ortiz back. They can’t honestly expect to compete next year. It is a very weak free agency class, so they can’t even reload. Greinke doesn’t look like a good fit for a large media town. Edwin Jackson is a good possibility, but he has never been very consistent. Peavy is injured a lot. The 2nd tier free agent pitchers are not much better than their in house options. Hamilton could fill a hole for sure, but is that enough? Would they even want to spend massive dollars when they may not compete for 3 years? Upton or Bourne would have to play left with Ellsbury, which would negate much of their value. After that, it is a pretty bleak market.

        The Sox are well below the levels of the Yanks, O’s, Rays, and Jays (when healthy, so next year). Why would a rebuilding last place team want an expensive 38 year old DH, great memories or not?

      • paperlions - Sep 10, 2012 at 12:42 PM

        I agree with Hittfamily….I’m not sure why either side would be interested from baseball or business perspectives. The FA class is crap. They have lost a lot of talent this year through trades and don’t have that much coming up to fill in from the minors. The rotation is still a mess (unless everything in the world goes right and nothing goes wrong, which never happens), they have little power on the team, and a spotty bullpen. I don’t see them competing next year, and probably not the one after that either (it also may take that long for the stink of this year to wear off so that they don’t have to dramatically over-pay FAs to sign them).

        So…..why would Ortiz want to spend his last couple years on a rebuilding team and why would the Sox spend that money on a guy that won’t be around anymore when they are ready to compete?

      • bigleagues - Sep 10, 2012 at 5:02 PM

        paperlions & hittfamily:

        The answers to why they would want to bring back Ortiz are pretty obvious and you already stated a couple of them.

        #1 – They have this little network called NESN. It is the root of all evil, and yet it is the essential to the franchise ongoing financial health. Ortiz IS the face of the franchise. And without him as the primary power threat, its gonna be tough to keep people tuning in nightly . . . youth movement or not.

        #2 – David Ortiz to this point has been one of the three greatest DH’s in the history since the advent of the rule (Paul Molitor and Edgar Martinez being the other two). Both Molitor and Martinez remained highly productive right to age 40.

        Given what Ortiz did prior to the Achilles (that is, be the 2nd best – behind Trout – offensive player in the AL) – there is nothing about this season, other than that Achilles injury which should be fully healed long before next Spring that should give the Sox much pause in bringing him back at guaranteed money for ages 37 & 38 – especially considering the condition of the remaining lineup.

        #3 – Ortiz has two World Series titles. I’m sure he’d like to win another one, but no one really believes he will go anywhere else. And the main reason is that the trend in MLB is away from a fixed permanent DH toward more flexibility plus the Sox now have oodles of salary room – and Ortiz has only once ever hinted that he’d look elsewhere – and that was earlier this season when he was pissed at the way the team was performing and making the point that he was a bargain compared to some of the other recent big money acquisitions. And really, he was and is right.

        # 4 – If not Ortiz, then who? The Yankees use the DH slot to keep Jeter, ARod and Tex a break from the field while keeping their bats in the lineup. The Sox don’t have that kind of problem. Without Irtiz they have a GAPING HOLE in the middle of their lineup. Josh Hamilton is not a realistic consideration – and signing him would represent more of the same bad decision making.

        I don’t see the Sox spending a lot during Free Agency. But I do think they will be as active as possible in the trade market.

        Pitching performances fluctuate from year to year. I have a hard time believing that Jon Lester just morphed into Barry Zito 2.0 – mainly because Lester is yet to be a Free Agent.

        Lester needs a fresh start. And a new season, new manager an a new pitching coach can do wonders toward fostering that. A rotation of Lester/Buchholz/a healthyLackey/and Morales and/or Doubrant and/or possibly De la Rosa and/or shouldn’t be underestimated – although it certainly could change.

        A full year – or close to full year – with Pedroia, Ellsbury, Ortiz and Middlebrooks anchoring the lineup is a solid foundation (the Rays have only two position players in the class of those 4 talent and production-wise). Is it a contending foundation, without solid reinforcements? Nope. But that’s because come October the Sox will have gaping holes at 1B, RF, LF and SS.

        So the Sox 2013 prospects for success will rest on how they fill those holes and whether or not they bolster the rotation with a big – or even moderate acquisition.

        Are they a lock to contend in 2013? No, but then in retrospect, apparently they weren’t a lock to contend in 2011 or 2012 either.

        Cherington has been saying the right things and I believe he means what he is saying. Whether or not it’s all put into practice is what remains to be seen.

        The Trade was a huge act of faith towards that end.

        Oh, and the Dodgers are just 6-9 – yeah it was just two weeks ago.

      • hittfamily - Sep 10, 2012 at 8:36 PM

        Everything you said is fair. Otiz is a top 3 DH. He has been great. He will likely want 2 years at 15 million, he is definately worth it, and I think it would be foolish to pay it.

        Also, Ellsbury is a 1 hit wonder, and Middlebrooks hasn’t had his sophomore season year. BJ Upton mixed an MVP caliber year in with a bunch or mediocre ones too, just like Ellsbury. Repeat performances are hard to come buy. Desmond Jennings was a higher rated prospect than Middlebrooks, and had a better rookie campaign. Don’t start tooting his horn yet, because Jennings was all smoke and mirrors.

      • bigleagues - Sep 10, 2012 at 10:40 PM

        I hear your point on Middlebrooks (which I think I noted in my previous post). Also, depending on who comes in and the outside possibility that Xander Bogaerts makes a run at the opening day roster, I wouldn’t rule out Middlebrooks moving over to 1B.

        I’m not sure Ellsbury returns to 30 HR’s ever again, but 15-20 HR and 50 SB shouldn’t be too much to ask for. I’m not sure I’d compare him to Upton, but I get where you’re going with it. If a part of Ellsbury’s game is to go missing for good, then let it be the HR power. Speed, contact, getting on base and gap power will suffice. He’s really only had his speed since returning.

        As for Jennings, I wouldn’t give up on him yet. He’s no power hitter, but he is a solid player who would help a lot of teams. The thing about prospect ranking is they are often smoke and mirrors themselves. Both were drafted at Age 19. Jennings was in BA’s rankings every year, but Middlebrooks just once (#51, pre-2012). Though they both ascended through their respective systems at the same pace (approx 5 seasons) Middlebrooks was drafted far higher (5th Round vs Jennings’ 18th Round), and Middlebrooks would have gone in the 1st or 2nd Round if not for a football/baseball scholarship to Texas A&M.

        They really are two different kind of players, but the thing about Middlebrooks is this: he’s always had super talent, but last making adjustments finally clicked, and it showed at Double AA, then AAA to start this season, and then in Boston. Each time it looked as though he was beginning to get overwhelmed he found a way to adjust and get back ontrack.

        It’s only a half season sample, but I think he’s got the talent and ability stick in a big way.

        We’ve still got some room in LF, if you want to send Jennings this way :-)

  7. xpensivewinos - Sep 10, 2012 at 10:21 AM

    He comes across as a kook.

    His comments are bizarre and he never appears to be clever………….only clueless or condescending.

    I can’t even imagine what it would be like to have to deal with this creep on a daily basis. The players and coaches must want to kill him…………….and that schmuck Lucchino for hiring him.

  8. mianfr - Sep 10, 2012 at 10:36 AM

    At least they still pay you when they fire you in sports.

  9. proudlycanadian - Sep 10, 2012 at 10:41 AM

    I laughed when I read that statement yesterday night. It was obvious that he knows that he will be gone at the end of the season. So do the players. The Red Sox played well both yesterday and in the first game of the Jays series. Pedroia hit a game tying home run yesterday and Ross just missed hitting a game winning home run. I expect that the Red Sox players will play well during the last 3 weeks of the season, not to spite Valentine, but rather to try to show that they are professionals.

    • bigleagues - Sep 10, 2012 at 11:00 AM

      “I expect that the Red Sox players will play well during the last 3 weeks of the season, not to spite Valentine, but rather to try to show that they are professionals.

      Not for nuthin’ but they could have done that all season.

    • paperlions - Sep 10, 2012 at 12:44 PM

      I think they will play hard, not sure they are capable of playing well.

  10. willclarkgameface - Sep 10, 2012 at 11:26 AM

    Back to the land of the rising sun. And that’s cool babies. He had a great deal of success in Japan and he was a WINNER. Over here, you have a bunch of guys that don’t respect a man that makes MILLIONS of dollars/year less than them.

    The guys on the Red Sox are 75% responsible for screwing this guy over. The other 25% is his idiotic need to be involved in media, be it in the Boston papers, NESN, or New York radio when he’s a Boston manager.

    Peace out Bobby. We’re counting the days too. And I do still feel bad for you, you old bastard.

  11. hittfamily - Sep 10, 2012 at 11:32 AM

    I don’t think Bobby is going anywhere. Henry likes him. He likes him enough to hire him in spite of Cherington’s wishes. He likes him enough to trade fan favorite Kevin Youklis when the 2 have a spat. He likes him enough that when Kelly Shoppach and Adrian Gonzalez demand a meeting with the GM and owner regarding Bobby V, he trades Shoppach and Gonzalez.

    When a star player with a 150 millon dollar contract goes to upper management, and says he doesn’t like the 1.5 million dollar manager, the manager always loses. Just not this time.

    Why sell off 4 all stars? So you can rebuild with Valentine’s type of players. Not Francona’s, Epstein’s, or even Cherington’s. Valentine has managed since the 80′s. Cherington has been alive since the 80′s. Perhaps Valentine has the owner’s ear more than we realize.

    • teaspoon1731 - Sep 10, 2012 at 11:44 AM

      They traded Youk because they had no spot for him with the emergence of Middlebrooks.

      They traded Shoppach because they had Lavarnway in the wings and could get something for him. (He was only on a one year deal anyway, so why not get something for him?)

      They traded Gonzalez so they could dump Beckett and Crawford’s contracts.

      None of that had anything to do with getting rid of guys that had spat’s with Valentine. Valentine LOVED Nick Punto, and note that he’s also no longer with the team.

      • hittfamily - Sep 10, 2012 at 11:57 AM

        The Dodgers wanted Punto for some reason. It was widely reported the deal doesn’t go down without him.

        Shoppach was traded, but they’d have gotten much more for Saltalamacchia. 1 requested a sitdown with the GM prior to a firesale, and the other didn’t.

        Be real about Youklis. They picked up his salary and traded him for a garbage AAAA relief pitcher Zach Stewart and a 1st baseman they released 3 weeks later. Youk was shipped out just to have him gone.

        I don’t know if I’m right or wrong, but early in the year, Pedroia was demanding apologies from Valentine. Now he is doing sitdowns with media explaining himself. There have been many opportunities for ownership to not side with Valentine. So far, he has won every battle he has been in.

      • hittfamily - Sep 10, 2012 at 11:58 AM

        Also, they fired longtime pitching coach Bob McClure because he and Valentine didn’t get along. I forgot about that one too.

      • teaspoon1731 - Sep 10, 2012 at 1:47 PM

        What were they going to do with youk if they kept him? Middlebrooks was doing great on 3rd, they already had a gold glove first baseman and Papi’s already the DH. By keeping him, they were shifting gonzo to right field, which merely risked injury to a pretty expensive piece of their team. Should they have gotten more for him? Probably. But he also is a serious injury risk who any team would only be getting for this season. It was a bad deal, but come on.

        The organization has been huge on salty for years. they tried to trade for him on several occasions. They wouldn’t trade him and keep a catcher they were losing when the season was over anyway.

        And McClure hadn’t been with the organization long, and in that time the pitching staff has been horrid. So his firing, not shocking. Again, nothing to do with valentine.

      • hittfamily - Sep 10, 2012 at 5:21 PM

        First off, I completely whiffed on McClure. I don’t know what I was thinking.

        Regarding Youk, the cost was the same to the Red Sox whether he played in Boston or Chicago. The Red Sox are still covering his salary, and will be for another couple of weeks. Youk was dealt early, long before the Sox had given up hope. So here are the 2 possible scenarios, and they both cost the Sox exactly the same:

        A) Youklis becomes a utility man. He pinch hits every game, spells Middlebrooks on his days off, spells Gonzalez on his days off, spells Papi on his days off, insurance for any one of the 3 in case of injury.

        B) Trade Youklis for Brent Lillebridge and Zach Stewart. Immediately release Lillebridge. Send 26 year relief pitcher Zach Stewart to AAA, because he has played for 4 different organizations and has a career ERA of almost 7.

        You don’t have to be a GM to know that option A gives your team a better chance to win. It isn’t like Youklis is crippled. He’s batting 5th on a playoff team. The guy, for 1 reason or another, was no longer welcome in that locker room.

      • teaspoon1731 - Sep 10, 2012 at 6:15 PM

        So what you’re saying is your entire argument is based on the Youk trade then? Which I’ve already agreed is horrible. But I’m still unwilling to pin that on Valentine.

        At the time of the trade they desperately needed outfielders (hence the fact that they were using Gonzales in RF). Lillibridge, though they didn’t keep him long, satisfied that need and held them until Ross and Sweeney came off the DL. It wasn’t the best trade absolutely, but their outfielders were dropping like flies and it made more sense to trade for one then to risk injuring Gonzo out there.

      • teaspoon1731 - Sep 10, 2012 at 6:18 PM

        Oh, and being the utility infield guy was Punto’s job, so that spot was filled already.

      • hittfamily - Sep 10, 2012 at 8:47 PM

        We’ll have to agree to disagree. I think Bobby stays, and you think he goes. Neither of us will be right or wrong until spring training.

      • teaspoon1731 - Sep 10, 2012 at 11:15 PM

        My argument had nothing to do with whether he stays or goes. It had to do with your statement about how much the team’s decisions had to do with making Valentine happy.

  12. bigharold - Sep 10, 2012 at 11:47 AM

    To be fair to Valentine, (although I don’t know why I’d do that), it wasn’t all or even mostly his fault. A lot of what is wrong with the RS was wrong with them before he got there and he clearly wasn’t allowed to run the team the way he wanted to from the start. Specifically, he was not allowed to hire his own coaches nor was he allowed to certain player moves that want initially. He wanted Iglesias and Middlebrook as the SS/3B that was overruled. He wanted Bard in the pen and they insisted on making the guy a starter. He clearly wasn’t in their long term plans so Youkilis should have been traded before ST so as to avoid any notion that Valentine was behind it. Maybe Elsbury too. He got none of it.

    Add to that all the hangover of the beer and chicken scandal which evolved into a zombie like undying saga, … throw into the mix the shameful leaks about Francona on his way out the door, .. combine hat with a veteran team that was neither use to nor thought they needed a hard ass manager and you have a recipe for a pretty bad team.

    Valentine isn’t blameless. He’s got this Billy Martin/Earl Weaver lite persona that neither plays well in this era nor is he capable of pulling it off. It’s one thing to have an old school attitude but it’s another to make stupid statements as if one is completely unaware, i.e. the remark about Youkilis in ST and his desire. That one just got everything going in the wrong direction from the out set.

    The bottom line is, Cherington wasn’t allowed to hire his manager and Valentine was forced on him. In turn Valentine wasn’t allowed his choice of coaches and players. The demonstrates a significant amount of FO dysfunction. Not exactly the message one wants to send to a bunch of players that you think are out of control and need to be reigned in. Valentine was perceived as a disciplinarian brought into fix the attitude of the team, a veteran team that didn’t really think it need it’s attitude adjusted, but he wasn’t given the mandate and authority to get the job done. They should have traded away non-essential or older players, like Youkiis, Elsbury and perhaps Beckett before the season to get the attention of the remaining essential veterans. He should have been allowed his choice of younger players, .. the Martin/Weaver lite thing might have been more successful with younger players and players with less tenure with the RS. Instead what they got was chaos. A manager nobody liked or respected because there was always the idea that he wasn’t going to be there for very long. It seemed to turn a bunch of disgruntled moody players with a sense of entitlement into a lose confederation of mutineers. And, the end result was essentially blowing up the team and starting from scratch. Which would be fine except any FA worth having is no doubt wondering if the RS are really as screwed up as they seem and why would I risk the prime of my career with franchise that has an Abbott and Costello routine aura.

    And, lets not forget the Boston media. People think that the NY media is bad. And, perhaps they are but with two MLB team two NFL teams etc .. they don’t need to fixate on the one team. In Boston during the baseball season the RS are the only game in town. The RS FO could of and should of never let the beer and chicken thing or the Francona lost control of the clubhouse narrative out of the bag. Or, at least put it to rest forthwith. Instead they made one misstep after another and it not only hit critical mass the explosion consumed everything in it’s path and the fall out killed the 2012 season. A textbook example of how NOT to do damage control. Yeah Valentine has a habit of inserting his feet in his mouth with astounding regularity but he wasn’t alone in the demise of the 2012 RS, .. he wasn’t even the biggest reason.

  13. teaspoon1731 - Sep 10, 2012 at 11:52 AM

    I was never a fan of the Bobby V. signing. I had one hope with him, and that was that he’d draw enough attention away from the players that they could move past last September. Instead, he drew the players into his circus. Everyday since May I’ve woken up with the hope that he’s been fired. Soon, that will be more than just a dream.

  14. dan1111 - Sep 10, 2012 at 12:17 PM

    It is true that Valentine is not the sole reason for the Sox’ underperformance. Injuries certainly aren’t his fault. Nor can all the personnel problems be blamed on him–underperformance always tends to bring those out. Nevertheless, to an outsider it sure looks like he is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Any manager, even a tough one, has to have the support of the players to be effective. Does he? It does not appear so.

  15. randygnyc - Sep 10, 2012 at 2:32 PM

    Hitfamily and paper make excellent points. If Ortiz gets reasonable offers from any other contender, I believe he’s gone. I think he’s had enough of Boston. My instincts tell me that they’d really have to overpay to convince him to stay, unless no one else is interested in a one dimensional player, looking for a multi year deal, who’s Achilles tendon is about to explode.

  16. husky2score - Sep 10, 2012 at 2:44 PM

    I think that one interview is starting to become reality now, if it already wasn’t.

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