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Brandon Phillips accuses another player of racism

Sep 11, 2012, 6:35 AM EDT

UPDATE:  Peace has apparently been achieved.

6:35 AM: From the Twitter feed of Brandon Phillips after last night’s marathon game against the Pirates:

No names attached, but as John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer noted early this morning, there was some jawing in the game between Phillips and Pirates pitcher Jared Hughes after Hughes hit Phillips with a pitch in the eighth inning, with Hughes shouting something at Phillips. The shouting happened, Hughes, said, because after he was hit, Phillips tossed the ball back at him, which he told reporters he did not expect.

Serious business if what Phillips says is true. I’m sure there will be some MLB investigation about all of this.

Oh, and Phillips is a guest on SportsTalk tonight on the NBC Sports Network at 6PM Eastern. I presume the conversation will be a bit more interesting than the usual “we gotta play ‘em one game at a time” rebop.

178 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. tom1954 - Sep 11, 2012 at 6:55 AM

    It’s been my experience that the first person to scream racism is usually the racist.

    • paperlions - Sep 11, 2012 at 8:26 AM

      Yep, good examples abound. You know….that Rosa Parks was a horrible person.

      /sarcasm

      Using your logic (and alleged experience), no one is allowed to point out racism.

      • skids003 - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:06 AM

        Yeah, Jesse and Al are two good examples also.

      • paperlions - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:57 AM

        Yeah, that’s a good idea. Take the craziest people and use them as the standard. Always a solid approach to understanding diversity.

      • skids003 - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:26 PM

        What is it your doing paperlions? You are only picking out the good ones. That doesn’t make what you’re doing right and someone else wrong. You sound like nothing but an apologist for it.

      • paperlions - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:33 PM

        touché.

        In my experience, people that deny racism are typically members of the group being accused of racism….as people tend to deny negative characteristics in people the view to be similar to themselves (e.g. white people deny racism exists, because they don’t experience the negative side and like to think life is fair…..men downplay sexism because the are never on the negatives side of it and like to think they aren’t sexist even if they clearly are).

        In other words, if you have sexist/racist/whateverist veiws, the natural tendency is to act like they aren’t racist/sexist/whateverist and that what you think is “what everyone else thinks” and is perfectly acceptable.

      • skids003 - Sep 11, 2012 at 3:20 PM

        paperlions, maybe you should come visit me and I can help expand on your experiance. I don’t deny it, I am merely stating that just because it’s “percievved,” I don’t think that makes it necessaririly true. Sometimes, people do say things in a “veiled” manner meant to do exactly what you are saying. So while I agree partially with you, I don’t agree with the whole thing. Guess we have to agreee to disagree.

      • paperlions - Sep 11, 2012 at 3:35 PM

        I’ve had the opportunity to live in a lot of places that vary fairly greatly in culture. Regardless of culture, the majority defends itself.

        At heart, we are all still tribal (you don’t overcome millions of years of evolution in a few centuries), and project good characteristics on those that look similar to us and bad ones on those that look different. FWIW, that isn’t an opinion, but highly supported sociological fact that is true regardless of cultural/racial origin.

    • hojo20 - Sep 11, 2012 at 8:26 AM

      Agree.

    • tfbuckfutter - Sep 11, 2012 at 8:51 AM

      It’s been my experience that when people refer to pointing out racism as “screaming racism” they are usually the racist.

    • sometimesphylan - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:31 AM

      It’s been my experience that the first person to leave a comment like this is whiter than Keith Hernandez’s bathroom counter

      • chuchasantamaria - Sep 11, 2012 at 2:43 PM

        man that is an on point burn.

    • bigleagues - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:34 AM

      When I see statements like the one by tom1954, it’s evidence that a hereditary bigoted social order continues to plague portions of White American population.

      And the statements almost always reveal an inscrutable insecurity based on a misplaced sense of entitlement.

      But what’s worse is rather than acknowledging the obvious facts about US history, the good and the bad, they sandbox themselves in ignorance and pretend they are part of a different history. And all that does is perpetuate a generational cycle of ignorance.

      • bigleagues - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:57 AM

        Hey, rather than hiding behind a thumbs up/thumbs down, let’s have a roll call style vote . . . REPLY with you response by stating “Up” or “Down”.

        It would be nice if we knew, on the record, who the ignorant reprobates are.

        Doubt that they have guts to surface themselves, however.

      • tfbuckfutter - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:04 AM

        Some of the thumbs down votes might be because you used too many of them ten cent words.

      • bigleagues - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:08 AM

        Yeah, well, we all have our faults.
        ;-)

      • nolanwiffle - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:20 AM

        I gave it a retroactive thumbs down only because you thought a cartoon thumb was some sort of referendum on the thought you were trying to convey. I wouldn’t take these “votes” too seriously.

    • pjmarn6 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:07 AM

      Would Jesse Jackson like to take back his racist comment?:
      “There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:08 AM

        Even though it’s a racist comment, do you know why it’s racist? Hint, it’s not the white person part…

      • jjschiller - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:32 AM

        You’re not real big on reading for context, are you?

        The man was being honest, and making a pointed criticism toward his own people, and admitting that its painful to realize it.

        He’s saying “if we want respect, if we want to be treated without fear, we need to clean our own house.”

        But that’s the problem with being candid and with speaking succinctly. If you don’t spell things out, knuckle draggers will pin you to the wall for what they think you said.

      • historiophiliac - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:55 AM

        Or, perhaps he was suggesting that even black people internalize negative feelings about black people (being criminals)…

      • jjschiller - Sep 11, 2012 at 5:31 PM

        And saying that nothing makes him sadder than to realize that that’s what he’s done.

      • historiophiliac - Sep 11, 2012 at 7:17 PM

        With you now, JJ. Wasn’t sure there if you meant they needed to do something about crime instead. Yes, he was trying to make a subtle point which unfortunately has been abused for sorry purposes by others.

    • kevinbnyc - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:37 AM

      Idiot.

    • thefalcon123 - Sep 11, 2012 at 4:14 PM

      “It’s been my experience that the first person to scream racism is usually the racist.”

      Signed,

      A White Person

    • tom1954 - Sep 11, 2012 at 4:52 PM

      Having read most of the replies to this post, I’m going to stick by my original statement which began with “It’s been my experience.” Obviously my experience is my experience. I’m not going to denigrate anyone’s opinion on the subject, but from reading the posts I guess I would be stating the obvious to say racism is still alive in America.

  2. personalspaceinvader - Sep 11, 2012 at 7:21 AM

    Hughes may have said something racist. He may not have. Obviously there is no place for that kind of a remark in today’s world, let alone on a professional baseball diamond. If he did, he should be reprimanded immediately.

    But let’s look at what we do know. This is coming from Brandon “They’re Little B*tches” Phillips.

    • bengalsucker - Sep 11, 2012 at 8:14 AM

      And yet he continues to be correct. The fan base should be included in that too if you guys are still hung up on that. Get over it.

    • thereisaparty - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:46 AM

      How does his opinion on Cardinals players have anything to do with this? We are supposed to be cautious to take him at his word because he is outspoken? Clearly this is a man that would lie about racism …

      Please, Cardinals fans, just stop.

  3. darthicarus - Sep 11, 2012 at 7:28 AM

    I’m sure some lip readers could figure out what Hughes was saying to Phillips after he tossed the ball back at him. MLB Network showed the whole exchange & you could see everything Hughes was saying. I’m only talented enough to figure out blatant cursing.

    • Gobias Industries - Sep 11, 2012 at 8:42 AM

      I’m sure the good folks at BLR can figure out what he said:

  4. hittfamily - Sep 11, 2012 at 7:37 AM

    Racism sucks, and has no place in life, let alone baseball. I believe Brandon Phillips, because that would be a really shitty thing to lie about. But screaming racism, and then not identifying who you are screaming at really sucks too. It’s just something you cannot do if you want the claim to be taken seriously.

    “There’s racist over there”.
    “Who are they, and we’ll deal with it”
    “I’m not going to say”

    It could have come from the dugout. It could be any player. If I’m a Pirate player, and I didn’t say anything, I am irate that there is any suspicion thrown in my direction.

  5. dondada10 - Sep 11, 2012 at 7:39 AM

    If, in fact, Hughes did use a racial slur, he’s gonna have a tough time in the clubhouse, I’d imagine.

    • kkolchak - Sep 11, 2012 at 8:40 AM

      Yeah, that was my thought as well. Pretty stupid thing to do, considering he’ll be playing with other black players his whole career. Assuming he did it. Phillips’s volatile history and the chickenshit way he put it out there are causes for skepticism.

      • kinggw - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:15 PM

        How was he supposed to put it out there? Who the hell are you to question Phillips? I love how people only accept something as being racist if it meets their criteria for racism. What exactly does Phillips’ volatile history entail? Does it involve lying? Im sure it doesnt include throwing around the term racist for shits and giggles. You said Phillips was chickenshit for the way he “put it out there”, whats chickenshit is questioning a man’s integrity when there is no evidence that you should.

      • kkolchak - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:42 PM

        Chickenshit is putting it out in a dumbass tweet, not saying what the comment was nor saying who supposedly said it. If he has an accusation to make, he should man up and formally make it or STFU. Until then, this just confirms my opinion of him that he’s a punk.

      • sabatimus - Sep 11, 2012 at 1:39 PM

        kkolchak, if Phillips “mans up” and names the name, he gets crushed by the media and fuels more bad blood. In other words, this is a lose-lose situation for him. This is why some athletes say nothing to the media except trite stuff you’d find in Bull Durham–they don’t want to stir up shit that will get them in trouble with someone and get their name plastered on websites and papers for reasons they don’t want.

        Of course, this IS Phillips we’re talking about here….

      • kkolchak - Sep 11, 2012 at 2:02 PM

        sabatimus – exactly. That’s why if he isn’t serious he should keep his mouth shut and play ball. I’m not condoning another player making racist comments, but this wouldn’t be the first time someone was accused unjustly of making them by an immature individual who does not understand the ramifications.

  6. nolanwiffle - Sep 11, 2012 at 8:06 AM

    ….reason #472 that grown men should not use Twitter.

  7. bengalsucker - Sep 11, 2012 at 8:22 AM

    Yeah if this is proven to be true, I’d say Cutch will have a few words with whoever it is that was throwing the racial slurs. I can’t imagine BP would cry wolf about someone throwing racial slurs.

  8. sfm073 - Sep 11, 2012 at 8:24 AM

    I wonder how many racist things white plyers in the nfl and nba deal with?

    • thereisaparty - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:48 AM

      At times like these it is important to reflect on the oppression faced by whites in this country (historically and currently). Poor, poor whites. Have to keep these things in perspective.

      • kevinbnyc - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:54 AM

        Assuming sarcasm:

        HAHAHAHA

    • kinggw - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:16 PM

      Instead of addressing the issue, why is the reaction to turn things around and play the victim?

  9. thatyankeedude - Sep 11, 2012 at 8:29 AM

    I’m going to the game tonight, maybe some sparks will fly.

  10. paperlions - Sep 11, 2012 at 8:34 AM

    Maybe he innocently said, “Damn, I hate Mondays” (as he had just blown a save on a Monday), and Brandon mistook his meaning.

  11. pdowdy83 - Sep 11, 2012 at 8:56 AM

    I would put more stock in this if it wasn’t coming from Philips. He is arrogant and brash and has a history of being an ass on the field. Not saying that justifies racism by any means I am just saying I don’t know if I believe anything he says. The Reds drilled Cutch and for some reason they didn’t anticipate retaliation? Take it like a man, don’t have words with the other teams CFer (especially when he was the guy your own team hit…again) when he is coming off the field. He is such a talented player but his attitude stinks.

    • joshfrancis50 - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:15 AM

      So, you think the 8th inning of a tie game for a potential playoff team who is scuffling after not having had a winning season in 20 years is when they decide to retaliate? Okay.

    • thereisaparty - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:58 AM

      “Arrogant, brash, and … an ass”

      So he would lie about a racial slur? How can you rationalize that? Regardless of your intent, you are trivializing an act of racism.

      • pdowdy83 - Sep 12, 2012 at 10:05 AM

        I did not “trivialize an act of racism”. Way to go over the top on that. It is pretty hard to trivialize something that at the time of this post was lacking a lot of details to the story. No confirmation of who said what. Nothing but a tweet (because that is the best place to take something like a racism issue instead of the MLBPA). I simply said that I didn’t put a lot of stock in what Brandon Philips says or does do to his prior track record. You took that way to the extreme with your interpretation. I do not and never will condone racism of any type. Sorry if my post made it seem that way.

    • necrondi - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:32 AM

      trivializing an act of racism.

      Ask Al Sharpton, Tawanda Bradley and his Duke stripper. Never happens.

      • thereisaparty - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:34 AM

        How did you manage to find there anecdotes? Point proven!

      • historiophiliac - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:01 PM

        How many years ago was the Brawley thing? Is there any of that dead horse left to bludgeon? Your two examples demonstrate that there is clearly an epidemic here. Sigh.

      • skids003 - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:15 PM

        jistrio, how many years ago since Cvil War ended? Is there any of that dead horse leftto blugeon.?

        Clearly, we need to forgive for the past if we are to have any future together.

      • historiophiliac - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:40 PM

        Oh, the Civil War was no horse, my friend. That was a freaking MASTODON. We will be beating that m–r f–r for ice ages!

  12. maxt75 - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:07 AM

    OIh, Craig, you are so gullible.

  13. seanb20124 - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:19 AM

    Sticks and Stones B. Phillips

    Sticks and Stones

  14. stlouis1baseball - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:19 AM

    Is #4s being a “whiny little bitch”? Or is…#4 telling the truth?
    It’s hard to tell with #4 as he runs his trap so much it makes it difficult to take anything he says seriously. Him being chosen by his peers as one of the top 10 phoniest players speaks volumes.
    But one thing I do know about #4…I would love to see him play the keystone sack for my team.
    The dude brings it. Sure…he brings it mouth and all…but he brings it.

    • thereisaparty - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:53 AM

      His comment on Cardinals players (or other opinions) has no place in this discussion. He claims someone used a racial slur. Why are we not to take him at his word? What incentive does he have to lie about this? Why would anyone lie publicly about such a terrible thing?

      Your allegiance to a team is irrelevant in these discussions. This is bigger than fandom.

      • stlouis1baseball - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:16 AM

        “Your allegiance to a team is irrelevant in these discussions. This is bigger than fandom.”
        It has nothing to do with “allegiances.”
        Hell…I even openly stated I would love to see him play 2nd base for the Cardinals.

        “Why would anyone lie publicly about such a terrible thing?”
        A couple of things (also stated previously).
        1)It’s hard to tell with #4 as he runs his trap so much it makes it’s difficult to take anything he says seriously. ( As others have ALSO stated on this very blog).
        2) Him being chosen by his peers as one of the top 10 phoniest players speaks volumes.
        AND…for good measure.
        3) I actually have a few buddies (friends since grade school) who have admitted to doing such things. Their motives/rationale? Attention. Sympathy. And in one case…money.
        Of course…#4 doesn’t need any money so I realize that one doesn’t apply.

      • thereisaparty - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:59 AM

        Willing to be outspoken with opinions does not make one a liar. Glad you and other commenters follow that same illogical path.

        Greinke called Chris Carpenter phony. So we must therefore be skeptical when he is remarking on something that he witnessed? This is not a matter of opinions in this case. You are trivialising a racist act by trying to find faults in the person that is bringing this matter to light.

        I will ignore your anedoctal evidence. I find it asinine and slightly disturbing that people are unwilling to take him at his word.

      • stlouis1baseball - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:24 AM

        “You are trivialising a racist act by trying to find faults in the person that is bringing this matter to light.”
        I am NOT trivializing anything. Racism is terrible. I have been a victim of it myself. There is absolutely no place for it anywhere. No excuses. It’s the worst of the worst.

        It is obvious you are trying to pick, pick, pick, pick and pick some more at everyone’s comments that differ from yours.
        When people make claims/accusations…I always try to consider the source.
        It better allows me to put things in their proper context and/or perspective.
        I find it “asinine” and very naive when people are gullible enough they fail to realize everyone has an agenda.

      • stlouis1baseball - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:30 AM

        “No it is not racism. Our Supreme Court has ruled on this several times.”
        Party:
        You simply can’t believe either of these things are true.
        If so…you are part of the problem.

      • cur68 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:53 AM

        ‘party: you raise a good point. “Why would anyone lie publicly about such a terrible thing?”. I won’t presume to speak for all my fellow darkies but the #1 reason why I rarely report or comment on the racist stuff I’ve had directed to me over the years is precisely because few will believe me and the attendant fallout isn’t worth it.

        On those occasions I’ve been around for when someone has spoken up, that person’s character, honesty, past behaviour (no matter how tangential to the current situation), and very presence on Earth have been called into question. The victim of the slur is raked over the coals. Notice how few people (as of this comment, a ringing Zero) are dissecting Hughes here? Anyone going back over his comments, his tweets, his history of hitting people with pitches? Not a one. Its all on Phillips. Who needs that?

        I’m sure all this crossed Phillip’s mind before he tweeted this. Has to have. He went ahead though. So, we’ve had his character, honesty, past behaviour (VERY tangential to the current situation), and sooner or later we’ll have the “why was allowing himself to be hit” comment.

        So good question: Why would he lie about it? So he can listen to all of this? Does anyone seriously think he enjoys it, didn’t know it was going to happen, or will be at all shocked to see it happen? I suppose the answer is there in the last sentence I typed: “Does anyone seriously think…”. I’m gonna guess “No”: a good portion of people don’t put much though into it. Just jerk their knee and away they go.

  15. Tim's Neighbor - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:35 AM

    Sorry guys. Racism is just baseball tradition. We can’t go against baseball tradition and sissyfy this great game. What would Ty Cobb think?

    • Alex K - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:58 AM

      The human element!

      • badmamainphilliesjamas - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:37 AM

        Old School.

    • paperlions - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:09 AM

      Win!

    • cur68 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:55 AM

      There’s no appetite for change.

  16. pens5829 - Sep 11, 2012 at 9:36 AM

    Pirates are done. Nothing left to play for. First pitch right in Brandon’s earhole.

    • paperlions - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:10 AM

      Yeah, assault solves everything…..why….just look at the outstanding benefits of war on society.

      • saints97 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:21 AM

        It did rid of us of Hitler.

      • pens5829 - Sep 11, 2012 at 2:12 PM

        WTH are you talking about “assault”? ( I guess I forgot we’re in the era when people like you sue for spilling hot coffee in your lap?) I’m talking good, old-fashioned baseball. Short memory of Aroldis Chapman plugging Cutch? You’re on something if you think THAT wasn’t intentional.

      • paperlions - Sep 11, 2012 at 2:18 PM

        Hitting someone in the side of the head with a baseball on purpose is an assault upon that person. Violence outside the rules of the game is not excusable.

        Glorifying dumb ways people used to do things by calling them “old-fashioned” or “old-school” just reinforces the weakness of the argument….as you have to rely on myth to justify the stance.

        “Officer, I wasn’t driving drunk without my seat belt on, this was just good old fashioned driving.”

  17. hushbrother - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:14 AM

    I was watching the game, and Hughes (who looks like a world class mouth-breather) did yell something at Phillips after Phillips threw the ball back at him – it looked like he said “I wasn’t throwing at you, _____!” I couldn’t tell what the last part was, although I doubt it was the n word. Whatever it was it clearly angered Phillips. When the inning ended, Phillips said something to Andrew McCutchen as they passed each other, and McCutchen kind of raised his eyebrows. Later Phillips could be seen still venting to Dusty Baker and one of the umpires.

    Whatever Hughes said, he shouted it, so Phillips surely wasn’t the only one who heard it, plus it was all on camera and someone ought to be able to read the lips. The truth will come out.

    • stlouis1baseball - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:18 AM

      Interesting. Thanks for the insight Hush. I look forward to learning what was said.

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:27 AM

        Here’s the vid from MLB, I don’t think it was Hughes*:

        http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=24659381&c_id=mlb

        *Reason being that nothing happens while Phillips is walking to first, you don’t see Phillips upset at anything until about 1:44 into the vid, when Phillips is yelling at Cutch. Only parts I can make out are “he said something to me, he said something to my boy”.

        not a professional lip reader

      • jm91rs - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:24 PM

        If the wording is similar to what stlouis1baseball said, I can understand him getting upset at being called boy. I understand the racial undertones with calling someone boy, and the lack of respect it shows, but at the same time there seem to be some times when people are looking for racism too often.

        I sometimes yell “boy” at guys on the soccer field when they’re really aggravating me, sorta like saying “come back when you have the skill or composure of an adult”. 99.9% of the guys I play against are white so it’s not a race thing, it’s just a dumb thing I yell when I’m caught up in a game.

        Bottom line, I don’t blame Phillips for thinking it’s racism because this has come up before in black culture. I also don’t blame the pitcher if he did call Phillips boy, because there’s a pretty good chance his intentions were to belittle Phillips on the field, not to use his race in any way.

    • cggarb - Sep 11, 2012 at 1:11 PM

      I am pretty sure that the “my boy” reference was Phillips’ response when the umpire told him not to talk to McCutchen between innings. BP was saying, in effect, that he wasn’t prolonging the incident by antagonizing McCutchen – reassuring the ump that Cutch is “his boy,” and he was just asking the outfielder to pass some message to the offending teammate.

      It hasn’t been discussed, but Hughes was fully on tilt throughout this entire affair. After saying something to Phillips as the latter jogged to first, Hughes received a pretty long lecture from the umpiring crew. Phillips, the “loudmouthed ass,” as described elsewhere, didn’t say a word.

      Hughes then proceeded to throw over to first while Phillips was standing still on the bag – and odd move that I’ve never seen in 35+ years of watching baseball.

      Hughes is also the guy who shoved Dioner Navarro in the August game when Hurdle got tossed.

      http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WcRJYB8sXZgJ:news.cincinnati.com/article/20120805/SPT04/308050038/Baker-Shove-s-bully-move-+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

      I have no clue if he made some sort of racial remark to Phillips, but dude was way off kilter last night. Pitched well, though.

      • cggarb - Sep 11, 2012 at 6:47 PM

        Updated: Or not.

  18. florida727 - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:23 AM

    I really don’t give a damn how many thumbs-downs I get, I’ll share my thoughts anyway. Frankly, I’m sick and tired of every time a black person doesn’t get their way, it’s freaking “racism”. Screw you. Overcome it and quit whining about it like a 5th grade girl. I’m white and I have been discriminated against. I was up for a prominent TV job and was told, point-blank, “if you were black or at least female, I’d hire you right now”. So do you really think I give a sh!t about some guy making millions of dollars playing a game and barking about racism? Short answer: NO.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:28 AM

      Frankly, I’m sick and tired of every time a black person doesn’t get their way, it’s freaking “racism”. Screw you

      Really, every time a black person doesn’t get their way, they scream racism? Think this says something more about you than it does about the “black” person/people.

      • stlouis1baseball - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:46 AM

        Thanks for the link Church. I am obviously not a professional lip reader. But it is something that I have always been a little better at than others.
        But it looks (to me)…#4 got pissed caused someone called him a ”boy.”
        Again…not a professional lip reader but it seems Phillips said the word “boy” several times.

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:12 AM

        Again…not a professional lip reader but it seems Phillips said the word “boy” several times.

        I’ll respond down here. Something just doesn’t seem right, and it doesn’t help that MLB spliced the footage this way. If it were Hughes who did it (and let’s assume it was racist), wouldn’t Phillips be enraged on his way down to first? Was anyone who was watching the game able to comment on what happened between the plunking, the umps talking to Hughes, and the end of the inning when Phillips had his “confrontation” with Cutch?

        I feel like we’re missing an important part of the story here, like the underpants gnomes in south park:

        Step 1 – hit Phillips
        Step 2 – ???
        Step 3 – Racism

      • cggarb - Sep 11, 2012 at 1:13 PM

        I agree with churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged. Whatever got Phillips angry really didn’t appear to happen on his way to first – or anywhere on camera.

    • stlouis1baseball - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:35 AM

      What you are referring to is affirmative action my Friend.
      As a Business Owner…I can tell you it is still very much alive and well.
      Sadly…we don’t want to hire the best candidate.
      We want to hire the candidate that best provides us with points, breaks and/or kickbacks.

      • paperlions - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:14 AM

        All too true….of course, without affirmative action, the vast majority of business owners still did not hire/promote the best candidates, but favored those whose sex/color/beliefs most closely matched their own. Indeed, such practices are still widely common in many industries across the US.

    • sabatimus - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:37 AM

      That’s fine, you have an opinion. But it’s obvious that said opinion is informed by your own admittedly unfortunate experience of being discriminated against. I’m not discounting that. It just sure sounds like your anger about that experience is influencing your opinion–and your statements are quite close to blanket.

      • stlouis1baseball - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:48 AM

        But affirmative action isn’t racism. Or is it?

      • sabatimus - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:53 AM

        Oh I didn’t say that, stlouis. I think affirmative action IS racism. I’m also not saying that florida727 doesn’t have a right to be angry. I’m just saying that his statement came across as vitriolic and blanket, which means it’s mostly fueled by emotion.

      • stlouis1baseball - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:01 AM

        “I’m just saying that his statement came across as vitriolic and blanket, which means it’s mostly fueled by emotion.”
        Fair enough Sabatimus.

      • thereisaparty - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:04 AM

        No it is not racism. Our Supreme Court has ruled on this several times. If you think minorities in this nation are on equal-footing, you could not be more wrong. It is disgusting that a player faces racism, and this comment sections turns into a place for white people to whine about discrimination.

      • saints97 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:12 AM

        The Supreme Court did not rule that it was not racism. That was never their charge. They have ruled that most cases of affirmative action are constitutional (many instances have been ruled unconstitutional, too, by the way).

        And just because something is constitutional does not make it divine. Slavery was once constitutional. So was separate but equal.

        I’m not going to dive into the merits and problems with affirmative action, but I hate to see constitutional law butchered on message boards. Our Constitution is a pretty important thing, and it would seem that 99% of the population has zero clue what it says.

      • sabatimus - Sep 11, 2012 at 1:47 PM

        Party, I’m not sure if your comment was addressed to me, but just in case it is: 1) I believe affirmative action is racist, so we’ll agree to disagree; 2) I don’t think minorities have equal footing at all; 3) I’m not whining about white people being discriminated against.

        What I do find consistently amazing, however, is that people so very often interpret what they want out of others’ statements, and then spew them out as though they were actually said by the original person. If you were doing this, at least have the self-awareness to know that you’re doing it.

      • sabatimus - Sep 11, 2012 at 1:51 PM

        “Our Constitution is a pretty important thing, and it would seem that 99% of the population has zero clue what it says.”

        I agree (though certain politicians may not). I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read someone crying “First Amendment!” when the argument in question has to do with the private sector.

    • historiophiliac - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:04 AM

      Well, you can rest easier, florida727, knowing that whatever minority they hired instead makes less money than you would’ve in that job.

      Also, so classy to call out someone on racial issues by insulting them with the suggestion that they are acting like a “girl.”

    • kinggw - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:24 PM

      Im betting the reason why you didn’t get that job is not because you aren’t black and/or a woman its because your an insufferable asshole who likes to blame his misfortunes on others. I seriously doubt someone told you thats why you didn’t get the job, otherwise you would have grounds for a discrimination lawsuit.

    • chuchasantamaria - Sep 11, 2012 at 2:15 PM

      So brave of you to share your bullshit story – things are soooo hard for poor little oppressed white men now, huh? I’m sorry, but the shit you’re saying is such a pile of insane, ahistorical, self-pitying bullshit that it’s literally making my brain explode right now – and just to get it straight, you’re saying that people shouldn’t complain about racism WHILE complaining about it? Oh right, because you’ve ‘overcome’ the massive adversity that you’ve faced. Hot tip, you didn’t get hired because you’re a fucking idiot with a persecution complex, not because of your race. PS: your story is so obviously made up that it’s laughable.

  19. johngaltx - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:24 AM

    If I was pitching I would drill that punk EVERY time he batted. When I batted I would try to drill him off the bat, and when I was on first I would take him out—I would even try and take him out on my home-run trot.

    • 18thstreet - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:20 PM

      Thank goodness an Ayn Rand devotee from Texas has set us all straight.

      Nope, no racism here. Just a free market solution.

      • badmamainphilliesjamas - Sep 11, 2012 at 2:26 PM

        Survival of the fittest.

    • chuchasantamaria - Sep 11, 2012 at 2:21 PM

      What the fuck is wrong with you? At least I can take comfort in knowing that you’re going to have to watch in impotent rage as people like you become irrelevant to this country. John galt my ass – please remove yourself from the economy, and the rest of our lives, dipshit – i’m sure that you’ll be missed.

  20. saints97 - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:52 AM

    I’ll start by saying I generally like Brandon Phillips. He seems like a good guy to me (and I am Cardinal fan, so that is saying something). But you can not throw the ball back at the pitcher after being hit. You have to be brain dead to think they pegged him on purpose there, so why the hostility? It’s almost like the batter’s version of Clemens’ roid rage on Piazza. That is unacceptable, and could probably be described by some as something a whiny bi— would do. He’s not innocent in this whole mess. He behaved poorly.

    As for the pitcher yelling something racist at him – I have to assume that Phillips mis-heard him. There is no way the pitcher can scream something racist at the batter after pegging him and only the batter hear it. Everyone is focused on him, especially after Phillips tossed the ball.

    Then again, Phillips was vague and it might not have happened at that point.

    But, for the record, I don’t think Phillips is lying. I think he truly believes someone dropped a racist comment on him, and if you believe what your saying, it’s not a lie just because it is untrue (unless, apparently, you are the President).

    Unfortunate situation here, and hopefully it gets cleared up. But Phillips needs to understand that he was extremely wrong in the situation, too. Not as wrong as dropping the n-word , but very wrong still.

    • paperlions - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:22 AM

      I don’t much care for Phillips’ public persona, but in this case, I think Phillips throwing the ball back was just and emotional response to getting hit. In that moment, it doesn’t really matter to most people that it wasn’t on purpose, what matters it you got drilled by a 90 mph baseball….and the natural immediate response is to be pissed.

      • stlouis1baseball - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:27 AM

        Yes…and for those same reasons Roger Clemens tossed the broken bat back to Piazza.

    • kinggw - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:33 PM

      You have to assume Phillips misheard him? Your joking right? Why is it so hard for people to admit that racism is still alive and well? Its alarming that when an accusation of racism is leveled the first thing most people do is attack the victim.

      The way that you an others are trying to downplay and trivialize Phillips’ account is a big reason why race will continue to be a dividing factor in this country. If we cant talk about it honestly, how do we expect to get past it?

      • saints97 - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:39 PM

        I didn’t attack Phillips at all. I explained fully why I assumed Phillips misheard him – because no one else on the field seems to have heard it, although all attention was focused on them.

    • cggarb - Sep 11, 2012 at 1:19 PM

      Oh, there was zero doubt that Hughes hit him on purpose. It was absolutely, positively, a textbook shot. Fastball, right at the meat of the thigh. Phillips couldn’t dodge it, but no chance of injury.

      It made no sense from a tactical perspective (late in a tie game), but Hughes has been wound up about the Reds for a month. His subsequent actions (especially that “pickoff” throw) illustrate this further.

      Phillips didn’t throw the ball at Hughes, or even really near him. He lobbed it over between the mound and first. Somewhat provocative, but plausibly deniable. The type of thing that Hughes could choose to ignore, but that Phillips knew he’d react to. Passive aggressive, in other words.

      • saints97 - Sep 11, 2012 at 1:28 PM

        No pitch has ever been accidentally thrown in that location? If it was intentional, it really was odd timing.

        And, yes, the throw over was suspicious, but not considering what Phillips did with the ball.

        I have no idea. If I had been there, I could form a real opinion.

        But until I see some real evidence, I will continue to assume the scenario where no one is a bad guy. I want to like Phillips, especially after hearing about him showing up at some kid’s little game because the kid invited him on Twitter. That was the stuff of legend (with regards to public relations and fan interaction). And I don’t want to hate Hughes (but I am fully willing to if it comes to light that he did drop something racist on BP.

        Too many people seem to want to hate. Why can’t we just assume the best in everyone until actual facts come out?

      • cggarb - Sep 11, 2012 at 4:04 PM

        1. Very few pitches are accidentally thrown in that spot.
        2. Hughes, given his antics the last time those teams met, would be a very unlucky candidate for an accident.
        3. Firsthand testimony from an eyewitness is generally considered “evidence” in court.

  21. historiophiliac - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:54 AM

    I’m wondering where the umps were. Did they hear it? Did they consider it (either then or when Phillips complained)? Why didn’t they do something? If people watching at home could see there was an issue…

  22. ballcoach72 - Sep 11, 2012 at 10:55 AM

    Brandon Phillips lives in his own little world. He hears things because he needs an injustice to fuel his fire. Clearly nothing was said to him because if so he would have reacted at the time. The video shows him stewing at first base, but nothing else. Of course he is not going to name anyone because then it would be easy to determine if there was or was not a statement made. I am also sure he will go up to bat tonight and try to act like what he said was no big deal.

    The problem with the Pirates right now is that they have allowed teams to push them around the second part of the year. There has been no fire. Hopefully, Brandon has started a spark. Will it burn who knows, but it would nice to see the loudmouth get plunked 4 times tonight, regardless of the wild card implications.

    • thereisaparty - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:07 AM

      You hope that a guy who just faced racism (in 2012!) should now be hit four times tonight as a result? Unbelievable

      • ballcoach72 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:13 AM

        If you believe what he just stated, which I don’t. His actions at the time do not support it and there is not another player, coach or umpire who supports it. If it is proven differently then, the Pirate player should face discipline. The problem, right now is from what I saw on the video, Phillips actions do not show someone being upset over a comment.

        So, if he is lying, which I believe he is, then yes I hope he gets hit four times.

        I would like to know why you think he just faced racism, because he says so? Amazing how nobody else in the entire stadium has backed it up yet. I know again in Brandon’s own world Hughes said it to him telepathically, so he is the only one who heard it.

      • saints97 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:15 AM

        You indicated earlier that white people have no right to complain about racism because they have it so much better than minorities in this country.

        What percentage of whites do you think have it better than Brandon Phillips?

  23. js20011041 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:04 AM

    I have just a general comment on racism in general. I don’t know what happened with Brandon Phillips and nor do I particularly care. I think that this country would be a lot closer to eliminating racism if we as a country would treat all racism the same. Fundamentally, there is no difference white on black racism and black on white racism. Nor is there any difference between black on hispanic, asian on black, or whatever combination you can come up with. Instead of turning any white perpetrator of racism into some combination of Hitler and the devil, while ignoring all other acts of racism not perpetrated by whites, how about we treat it all the same?

    • thereisaparty - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:11 AM

      Yes, because our nation enslaved whites for centuries. Then used laws to oppress them for another century once slavery was eradicated. Laws that were so firmly imbedded throughout society that the ramifications are still being felt today. I mean just look at our jails, which are filled with a gross overrepresentation of young white males.

      • necrondi - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:28 AM

        LOL.

      • js20011041 - Sep 11, 2012 at 1:20 PM

        Thereisaparty, your logic is not just flawed, it’s nonexistant. I’m not defending racism, I’m stating that it’s wrong no matter the source. It is incredibly hypocritical to get up on your soapbox and rail against the evils of racism, but turn a blind eye to it when the source is anything but white.

    • Alex K - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:16 AM

      The problem is white racism against any other minority is much, much more harmful in 99% of situations. There is no greater privilege than being a white male in America.

      • saints97 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:19 AM

        The say that 78% of percentages are made up on the spot.

      • stlouis1baseball - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:36 AM

        Oh…I can think of a far greater privilege (in today’s society) than being a white male in America.
        A white male in today’s America doesn’t have a chance in hell of getting a loan for school, house, car, etc… Unless they have a great deal of capital and/or collateral to back it up.
        Of course…if they had either of those they wouldn’t need the loan.

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:53 AM

        A white male in today’s America doesn’t have a chance in hell of getting a loan for school, house, car, etc…

        What? If this is sarcasm, I apologize.

      • Alex K - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:05 PM

        That was a made up percentage, so 100% in this case. But the actual percentage is not relevant to my overall point.

      • historiophiliac - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:05 PM

        Church, I was thinking the same thing. Was stlouis suggesting that being white should entitle you to loans w/out collateral? wtf?

      • Alex K - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:15 PM

        STL- Are you suggesting that people get loans based on their race and not their ability to pay it back? Please tell me I misunderstood something there.

      • js20011041 - Sep 11, 2012 at 1:26 PM

        Your statement should read, there is no greater privilege than being a wealthy white male in America. Aside from illegal immigrants, there may not be a worse situation in this country than being a dirt poor white male.

      • dprat - Sep 11, 2012 at 1:37 PM

        @stlouis1baseball
        “A white male in today’s America doesn’t have a chance in hell of getting a loan for school…”

        I hear this complete and utter bullshit all the time. Fox News, maybe? As a financial aid professional, I can tell you that race plays no part whatsoever in determining federal financial aid – either in loans or in grants – and federal aid is by far the vast, vast majority of aid students receive. The form students fill out to apply for federal aid does not even ask their race and the people determining eligibility in almost all cases have no idea the race of the applicant.

        But, hey, let’s not let inconvenient facts get in the way of your alternate reality.

      • Alex K - Sep 11, 2012 at 2:35 PM

        It sucks to be poor no matter what race you are. My statement read just right. Do you think it sucks more to be poor and white as compared to poor and black? That’s a ridiculous thing to say.

      • Tim's Neighbor - Sep 11, 2012 at 3:19 PM

        This white male was received a loan for a top-notch and crazy expensive law school (and feels blessed to be able to do so, btw). Just like all of my classmates across races, nationalities, sexes, etc. This is after receiving a loan for a home with his white wife. Small sample size, sure, but I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.

    • leokitty - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:09 PM

      Fundamentally there is a huge difference in the power structure you dolt.

    • kinggw - Sep 11, 2012 at 12:36 PM

      Because its not the same, only an extremely naive white man would make such a statement. No matter how hard you try you cant sweep 400 years of oppression and institutional racism under the rug and act like all discrimination is the same.

      • bbqummhmm - Sep 11, 2012 at 1:20 PM

        kinggw,

        Food for thought. There is an entire generation of adults now alive that was born after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. A major portion of that generation is still young enough to believe “human history started on the day I was born”. Therefore, I would contend a percentage of these responses are not necessarily rooted in blatant racism, but rather “youthful ignorance of history”. For the older respondents you’re generally not going to affect their beliefs. However, for the younger ones, the volume of you voice matters.

      • js20011041 - Sep 11, 2012 at 1:45 PM

        It is the same. It is not naive to expect that the ideal of everyone being treated equally extends to everyone and not just everyone who happens to not be a white male. I’m not arguing that our society in this country is currently equal for everyone. I’m arguing against the mindset. There are no qualifiers for wrong. Wrong is wrong.

    • chuchasantamaria - Sep 11, 2012 at 2:25 PM

      I know guys! Remember all of the times that black-owned banks refused to give loans to white people, and white people couldn’t buy property, and all the times that white people were murdered and beaten for attempting to assert their humanity and right to equal treatment? Snark aside – dude, yes all racism is bad, but history happened.

  24. footballchic777 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:09 AM

    By the way, Phillips being voted a phony by players in the league is not by his peers. It is his competitors.

  25. jolink653 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:10 AM

    I don’t think someone would take their own career into their hands by screaming a racist slur in the middle of a baseball diamond in front of his teammates, coaches, umpires and fans…Phillips, as talented as he is, has been known to surround himself with drama and cause problems and I’m not saying there wasn’t something said but I get the feeling he either took something out of context or he heard the Hughes say something and decided to take it as a racist comment…Either way, Phillips did himself no favors by drawing attention to this and if he really had a problem with something Hughes said he could have taken it up with him after the game and not in a public forum like Twitter

    • thereisaparty - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:12 AM

      Let’s continue to blame the victim!

      • ballcoach72 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:17 AM

        What victim ????? He still has not stated what was said to him or who said it. Why do you believe what he has said? What actions by Brandon Phillips in the past would lead you to believe he is being honest in this situation? What part of that video gives you any thought that anything was yelled at him? Please tell me why he is a victim ?

      • jolink653 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:18 AM

        The burden of proof is on the victim to show that there was racism…If no one else in the middle of a baseball game heard anything than what else is there to assume? Phillips is either blowing something out of proportion or thinking he heard something that wasn’t said

      • saints97 - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:18 AM

        Are you Judge Dredd?

        I guess accused racists are guilty until proven innocent in your eyes.

      • stlouis1baseball - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:37 AM

        Oh my Lord. Dude…you really need to let some of that guilt go. It isn’t healthy.

      • historiophiliac - Sep 11, 2012 at 11:49 AM

        Whoa, let’s dial it back, gentlemen. There’s no reason to break out Sly Stallone. He’s in mourning. Also, please, no Star Chamber or Eastwood anything. We don’t need to get carried away.

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