Comments on: And the award for the worst player in baseball goes to … http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/ Baseball. Baseball. And then a bit more baseball. Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:02:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: plmathfoto http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-366701 Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:28:27 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-366701 Not enough plate appearances, but some how he’s gotten worse since this article first appeared.

]]> By: unlost1 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-366142 Tue, 18 Sep 2012 21:34:57 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-366142 how much money did ya get paid for that one?

]]> By: guyonabuffalony http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364752 Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:01:47 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364752 How is this not Jason Bay’s award? .156/.235/.285 line combined with $18.125m salary…

]]> By: raysfan1 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364658 Sat, 15 Sep 2012 01:19:11 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364658 Keen insight, Captain Obvious, seeing as MLB minimum wage is $480K. Also, if any of us were good enough to play in MLB, obviously we would.

]]> By: raysfan1 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364656 Sat, 15 Sep 2012 00:42:18 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364656 I immediately thought of Mark Fidrych.

]]> By: proudlycanadian http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364655 Sat, 15 Sep 2012 00:26:16 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364655 Yaz was +12? That is completely silly. Yaz was a great player. I envy you for getting to watch him so often.

]]> By: thedudabides http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364653 Sat, 15 Sep 2012 00:19:23 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364653 Um, how about Jason Bay????

]]> By: pml22 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364638 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:03:15 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364638 I have to agree here. WAR is a misguided stat. Hear me out. 1967. I went to probably 30 Red Sox games, and watched probably another 30. Baseball wasn’t on every night back then. I listened to probably another 60 games. Now, WAR says Carl Yastrzemski was +12 games better than a replacement from the minor leagues. Seriously? He carried that team on his back. Bringing up a kid from AAA would have resulted in a net loss of a MINIMUM of 25 wins that year. I get the fact that a team would not be much worse than 62 wins, nor greater than about 106 wins so the lower a team drops, the harder it is to point to one player. But when you take the best all-around player and more importantly, the #3 bat out of a lineup the impact is far greater than 12 games– not to mention taking a Gold Glove OF out of LF, as well.

Examples are countless, Frank Robinson, Roberto Clemente, Stan Musiel, Al Kaline, in their championship years, and on and on.

Now, if you want to argue that Nick Swisher is batting #3 (occasionally) for the Yankees, yes a player of lower caliber would be impacted negatively by the batting position. In fact, it might prove that Dave Kingman batting 4th was a worse player than Dave Kingman batting 5th.

]]> By: stampofdisapproval http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364607 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:00:59 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364607 WAR? What is it good for? Absolutely nothin’. Hooahhh!

]]> By: dondada10 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364589 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:02:09 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364589 Yup. wOBA is what I tend to look at.

wOBA, by the way, has Frenchy as the second worst player in the game after Smoak.

]]> By: Jeremy Fox http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364578 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 19:41:51 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364578 Interesting that the list of best seasons by post-1900 non-HOF players is dominated by pitchers. Wonder if there’s a reason, or if it’s just a fluke?

I’m guessing maybe Al Rosen in 1953 is the highest-ranking non-pitcher in that category?

]]> By: Gamera the Brave http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364556 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:50:09 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364556 And thus, an acronym was born!

]]> By: Jeremy T http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364530 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:20:38 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364530 Somebody find out what Brandon McCarthy’s MCAR is. I’ll bet it makes Mike Trout look like a little leaguer!

]]> By: Jeremy T http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364529 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:19:49 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364529 Craig, Aaron, whatever, all bloggers look the same to me :)

]]> By: jasonc2300 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364503 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:56:26 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364503 I propose that instead of deducting wins from teams who have players suspended for PEDs in-season, they be forced to trade for Francoeur and play him every day.

]]> By: Jeremy Fox http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364502 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:55:26 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364502 Can’t believe I forgot Gooden 1985. And yeah, Doc’s not going to the HOF.

My own highly-unimaginative guess, made without consulting the list, was Herb Score in 1956. Only 7.0 bWAR. Most famous injury-wrecked career in history, but not really a very good guess.

Other non-HOF, post-1900 guys who are right up there: Wilbur Wood twice (11.5 WAR in 1971, 10.3 in 1972), Dolf Luque (who???) in 1923 (10.4 from a guy who played a while but was otherwise average-to-mediocre), Wes Ferrell in 1935 (10.4–7.9 as a pitcher and 2.5 as a batter!!!), and Steve Trout’s dad Dizzy in 1944 (10.4–8.9 as a pitcher, 1.5 as a batter!)

]]> By: Jeremy Fox http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364492 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:47:01 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364492 Can’t believe I forgot Gooden 1985. And yeah, Doc’s not going to the HOF.

My own highly-unimaginative guess, made without consulting the list, was Herb Score in 1956. Only 7.0 bWAR. Most famous injury-wrecked career in history, but not really a very good guess.

]]> By: paperlions http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364485 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:38:18 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364485 Exactly. The defensive metrics on which WAR (both of them) are not reliable over small sample sizes and generally require about 3 seasons of data to normalize….making annual estimates of WAR that have a heavy defensive component unreliable….for oWAR, knock yourself out…but once you include defense, yearly WAR just isn’t as reliable as one would like (and that ignores the fact that everyone knows WAR does a shitty job for 1B and C, and it can’t/doesn’t account for defensive shifts so many teams employ)….which is why so many people prefer to use a variety of sources when making a general judgement and why relying on WAR is often misleading (though still a kagillion times better than quoting W-L records, AVG, RBI, HR, ERA, or fielding %).

]]> By: bh192012 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364483 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:35:44 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364483 Only at baseball though, baseball players often have a low MCAR (Meaningful Comments Above Replacement) rating.

]]> By: natstowngreg http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364466 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:23:11 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364466 As a professional management analyst, I hear you. But not being the worst can be a positive.

]]> By: schlom http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364463 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:21:36 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364463 By BR WAR’s the best season by a non-HOF player is Doc Gooden’s 1985 season where he put up a 13.0 (if you discount the pre-1900 players). Gooden’s season is head and shoulders above any modern player, the next best is Carlton’s 1972 at 12.1.

Full list is here: http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_season.shtml

]]> By: vanmorrissey http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364454 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:11:15 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364454 KC should be ashamed. Not playing Myers as opposed to Franceour? And Profar in the lineup vs. Young should also be a no brainer. The old boy network at work.

]]> By: Jeremy Fox http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364450 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:09:25 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364450 Oh yeah, that’s one of the greatest pitching seasons ever. But I think Pedro’s a HOF lock once eligible. I’m wondering more about guys who were really awesome one year, but who for whatever reason weren’t nearly awesome enough for nearly long enough to be HOF material.

]]> By: Old Gator http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364446 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:07:17 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364446 This is a great insight into Craig’s hopeless man crush on Frenchy, isn’t it? He just can’t bring himself to say, flat out, “Jeff Francouer is the worst player in baseball.” He has to say “Francouer and Young are the worst players” when Frenchy is clearly much worse than Young. First time I’ve ever seen Young used so passive-aggressively to help someone evade their own frustrated and spurned affections.

]]> By: Jeremy Fox http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364444 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:06:08 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364444 I know, I know, but the bait looked so tasty I had to rise to it. Mmmmm, bait…

]]> By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364443 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:05:52 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364443 He’s not in the HoF yet (not eligible), but Pedro put up a 11.4 bWAR in ’00.

]]> By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364439 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:04:38 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364439 As dan1111 mentions, his hitting is terrible, but his reputation/ability as a defensive catcher is amazing. Here’s just one of Mike Fast’s articles on catchers for Baseball Prospectus:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15093

]]> By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364437 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:01:09 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364437 He does, and he’s trolling. He’ll write this same exact comment in every article that’s context is dependent on WAR.

]]> By: Jeremy Fox http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364429 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:54:28 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364429 Al Rosen sounds like a really good guess to me, thanks! (too lazy to do a search myself) Like Bonds, A-Rod and Sosa are either future HOF, or will be excluded for reasons other than “he wasn’t a good enough player”.

]]> By: mensad http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/14/and-the-award-for-the-worst-player-in-baseball-goes-to/comment-page-1/#comment-364428 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:52:17 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=217142#comment-364428 If you go by the Baseball Reference WAR list, and exclude possible steroid users (A-Rod, Sosa), my vote would be for Al Rosen with a 9.8 WAR in 1953. He was a single BA point away from winning the Triple Crown that year, while having a decent glove at third. Yet by 1957 he was out of the majors for good.

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