Comments on: Derek Jeter ties Willie Mays on the all-time hits list

By: freeagentsignee

freeagentsignee — Sat, 22 Sep 2012 00:52:20 +0000

Congratulations Derek!

By: Lukehart80

Lukehart80 — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 01:44:46 +0000

Mays and Mantle would also be facing pitchers with access to those advantages and a far more diverse league in general. They were both better ballplayers than Jeter and both would have been all-time greats in any era, but I don’t think it’s possible for either of them to be any more “iconish” than they already are.

By: fmlondon

fmlondon — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:18:59 +0000

Which is outrageous! The National Association was the first major league, and there is no excuse for excluding it as such. So, Cap Anson’s hits from 1871-5 were just as valid as his subsequent one. The National Association was the best players on the best teams in baseball. If that is not major league, what is?

By: avietar

avietar — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:18:35 +0000

Should we feel bad for Major League Baseball’s refusal to recognize all of Cap Anson’s hits? Nope! And not because I have any insight into why his National Association hits should or should not be discounted. Rather, it’s because he was also a total jackwagon racist scumbag who bore large responsibility for baseball’s segregation…”

You could just as easily be describing Ty Cobb, so why not expend some of this scholarly energy trying to find questionable hits that may be expunged from Cobb’s record?

By: larrytsg

larrytsg — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:15:04 +0000

Post Season hits do not count in a player’s overall career numbers, which are based only on the regular season (and maybe include tie breakers, ie 163rd game). There is usually another part of a player’s profile listing post-season stats, but these are traditionally not included in with the regular season. I guess it probably has something to do with all seasons being basically equivalent across the league, but a team like the Yankees will accumulate a lot of post season appearances over the past 20 years compared to a team, like… um… the Pirates. Makes it a wee bit easier to compare counting stats on players when they have the opportunity to play the same number of games.

By: Jeremy T

Jeremy T — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:35:29 +0000

Absolutely doesn’t diminish the accomplishment in any way. If Jeter’s clean, it makes it that much more impressive. If he’s not (and honestly, I don’t think I can say there’s any player that would surprise me more), then he was still on basically an even playing field with his contemporaries, which is really all that matters when discussing this kind of thing. Jeter’s certainly not a player on the level of Mays as far as overall value (defense alone makes that a ludicrous argument, not to mention power), but he’s established himself as one of the best shortstops of all time, and if he somehow remains as ageless as he’s seemed this year for much longer, he could end up going down as one of the best singles/doubles hitters at any position.

By: florida727

florida727 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:18:02 +0000

My apologies, but this question is straight out of the ignorance file: do post-season hits NOT count?

You said Jeter is 32 hits shy of Eddie Collins with 19 games to play. But if the Yankees make a decent post-season run, Jeter could get to 32 more, not easily, but certainly. Sorry to ask such a probably dumb question.

By: yankee7fan

yankee7fan — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:29:26 +0000

Here is my take on Jeter vs Mays vs Mantle

Putting aside steriod era let’s look at what Mays and Mantle might have done in the same period Jeter played. That is with the same nutrition and training and technology.

Mays was a 5 tool player, Mantle 6, because he could hit from both sides of the plate.

Mantle would benefit from three things which would have extended or enhanced his career; better medical treatment, better rehab techniques and smaller ball parks. Mantle on average had 25 balls of 420 feet or more caught for outs. OK that’s as many as 400 more homers! No need to go any further.

Mays using today’s more flexible lumber would also have a rise in home runs

I would safely guess that with better travel , lack of doubleheaders and turf fields each could have compiled 30 hits more a season.

Let’s not forget Mantle went to 12 world series.

Jeter on the other hand, probably would have the same or similar average in the 50 -60 ‘s with less power .

All in all Mick and Mays today would be even more iconish, Jeter in the 50 60′s still HOF

By: theawesomersfranchise

theawesomersfranchise — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:23:52 +0000

Never said it was, but the poster above was lamenting the fact that Jeter has some unfair force at work keeping him from being on the same level as Gehrig, when in reality that unfair force is reality.
Jeter is a stud, a sure fire Hall of Famer
Gehrig is a comic book superhero, stuff of legend, a Hall of Famer of Hall of Famers

By: natstowngreg

natstowngreg — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:08:07 +0000

Agree that, if you’re going to include pre-1900 National League stats, you should include National Association stats.

Also agree that Anson’s poor character and his excellent batting record are different issues. Stats do not come with morals clauses. See the recent discussion of Melky Cabrera and his chances of winning the NL batting title. BTW, Pete Rose and Ty Cobb, both men of questionable character, lead the hit list.

By: steeler999

steeler999 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:11:02 +0000

I am a yankee fan and respect Jeter very much, but the reason he will never be called Mays or Mantle is because he was never the player they were. Jeter has been a great player and remarkably consistant over his career, but he has never been the game changer Mays or Mantle were, steroid era or not.

By: 18thstreet

18thstreet — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:51:35 +0000

It’s no shame to be less than Gehrig.

Sheesh.

By: deathmonkey41

deathmonkey41 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:48:55 +0000

Roger. And go Jeter!!!

By: dlf9

dlf9 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:35:49 +0000

The article in the Managers book is a shortened version of an article from James’ Baseball Book from 1990. The earlier version provides a little more information on Anson’s involvement in the early color line than does the one in the latter book.

By: nmrdr795

nmrdr795 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:35:18 +0000

G.O.A.T

By: dcfan4life

dcfan4life — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:29:55 +0000

Your response is exactly why i asked the question. Since there is no way of ever knowing who did what, even a guy most would assume is clean like Jeter has to have his stats diminished. He is not, and never will be called Willie Mayes or Mickey Mantle. Yet he will have better overall stats than both. Makes you think doesnt it?

By: Craig Calcaterra

Craig Calcaterra — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:20:42 +0000

Dude, I am NOT seriously advocating that Anson’s hits be docked. I was just explaining why I don’t have much personal sympathy for the guy if there’s a dispute over 3400 hits or merely 3000 depending on the interpretation.

Indeed, I’m inclined to side with the BR-SABR people and say Anson deserves to be higher on the list due to their research into the National Association.

By: theawesomersfranchise

theawesomersfranchise — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:17:59 +0000

He will not be put into the same class as Gehrig….because he ISN’T in the same class as Gehrig.

Career
124 wRC+ & 77.7 WAR

174 wRC+ & 125.9 WAR

Lots of hits (singles) doesn’t put you into the conversation with Gehrig….
k?

By: deathmonkey41

deathmonkey41 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:07:39 +0000

What does it matter if Cap Anson was a racist or not? If he has the numbers, he has the numbers. You’re willing to include the numbers of known cheaters like McGuire and Bonds, but not Cap Anson because he grew up in an era where segregation was common place and was probably raised to believe that was the right thing to do? If MLB doesn’t want to include the numbers from the National Association, that’s one thing, but to exclude him or say he doesn’t deserve consideration because of personal beliefs, that’s being as short-sighted as what you’re criticizing him for.

By: Lukehart80

Lukehart80 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:32:52 +0000

Much of my extended family lives in or near Marshalltown, Iowa, which is where Cap Anson is from. When I first learned that as a kid, I thought it was incredibly cool and exciting. As I eventually learned more about what type of person Anson was, it became progressively less and less cool. If only my family lived a little further Southwest, in Van Meter, I’d have a Bob Feller connection instead, which would be outstanding.

By: hushbrother

hushbrother — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:57:38 +0000

Bill James’ book on managers includes a long article about Anson. James says that, yes, Anson was a racist – his team employed a black man as a mascot and Anson treated him “exactly as one would treat a dog.” But the assertion that Anson was directly responsible for segregating professional baseball is incorrect. Anson was a big star and manager of a high profile team, but had no actual power to enforce or effectively advocate segregation. That was a league stance and, really, the stance of mainstream America.

But yeah, screw ‘im.

By: steeler999

steeler999 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:57:02 +0000

So you think most players cheated, but Jeter most likely did not. Wouldn’t that enhance what he has done and not diminish it? Jeter not only succeeded but thrived, without performance enhancers. Of course that is a complete assumption on my part. There’s no way to truly ever know who did what when it comes to performance enhancers.

By: Detroit Michael

Detroit Michael — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:53:15 +0000

Paul Molitor led the AL in hits when he was age 40 but (as far as I know) that’s the oldest league leader in hits. Jeter is close but won’t claim that title if he hangs on to the lead.

By: southofheaven81

southofheaven81 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:46:12 +0000

If Jeter’s clean, I’d say it actually enhances his stats, since he played against ‘roided-up pitching.

By: dirtyharry1971

dirtyharry1971 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:12:26 +0000

Im surprised you dont think Gose is the best hitter you ever saw, i mean the way you rant about him you would think he was actually good until you go check his numbers then you realize he isnt even remotely good

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:42:46 +0000

Why does it diminish it, when players of that era cheated as well? All stats of every generation need to be put in some sort of context.

By: dcfan4life

dcfan4life — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:36:02 +0000

Does the fact that Jeter played successfully in a tainted era diminish this accomplishment in any way? As one who hates the Yankees but respects and admires Jeter, i would be shocked to find out he used steroids in any way. However it seems all major accomplishments of this era seem less important. He will have many better stats the greats like Mays, Gehrig, Mantle, but will never be put in the same class. None of todays players will be. The era is so different with the cloud of steroids it kills the amazing stats some players like Jeter have done. I mean to be that good, that long, in New York, without any distractions, in a social media age, is truly remarkable.

By: screaminzab

screaminzab — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:31:04 +0000

Now that’s how we like to start our Friday!

By: proudlycanadian

proudlycanadian — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:30:53 +0000

Mays was the best player I have ever seen. Jeter is a tremendous singles hitter. He is famously single and a big hitter with the ladies.