Comments on: Yadier Molina is absolutely ridiculous

By: Nick C

Nick C — Sat, 15 Sep 2012 02:25:50 +0000

I dont disagree. This was a crude attempt at comparison but I do believe it has some value. I mostly picked catchers who are Molina’s contemporaries for just this reason. But I thought I’d throw Bench in there because he’s widely considered the best ever.

By: opshuns

opshuns — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:23:53 +0000

No offense, but any catcher with the Giants is in trouble. Cain is the ONLY one with a quick enough delivery to have a chance at base stealers.

By: roadwearyaaron

roadwearyaaron — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:10:49 +0000

Interesting numbers for current and recent players, but the different eras make it a slightly unfair comparison between Molina and Bench. League-wide stolen base attempts were higher during many of Bench’s seasons when compared to current numbers. Take these percentages with respect to league average and it might be a slightly more fair comparison.

But that would take more work than I’m willing to do on a Friday evening. Interesting post, nonetheless.

By: chuckleberry1974

chuckleberry1974 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:13:08 +0000

And while I’m thinking about, the Molina throw was no doubt a great throw. We have seen Matt Weiters make throws like that the last 2 years. I know they’re different players, but Matt Weiters is a great.

By: chuckleberry1974

chuckleberry1974 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:08:58 +0000

There’s really not much rhyme or reason to it other than the early 80′s Cubs being my favorite collection of players ever, but I always loved Jody Davis at catcher. I mean, when Harry Caray sings a song about you to the tune of Davy Crockett and substitutes your name, that’s a pretty special guy. That 84 team also had the Daily Double of Bob Dernier and Ryne Sandberg at the top of the order.

By: chuckleberry1974

chuckleberry1974 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:05:32 +0000

Paperlions, those pitches certainly did exist when Bench caught. Players like Bruce Sutter lived in the dirt with his split-fingered fastball, which he was using when he was with the Cubs in 1976 and after. He in fact learned it in 1974 in the minors. Other players of his era definitely used it as well. Plus, the good old fashioned curveball in the dirt was a staple for pitchers back then to get strikeouts. Bert Blyleven, Steve Trout, Steve Carlton…all had devastating curveballs that were in the dirt.

By: chuckleberry1974

chuckleberry1974 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:58:17 +0000

Tony Peña could throw from any position as well.

By: chuckleberry1974

chuckleberry1974 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:56:11 +0000

Bill Dickey did it, and then when he was coaching with the Yankees, he taught Yogi Berra to do it. The hiding of the hand was well before Johnny Bench. Nothing against Bench, obviously.

By: Nick C

Nick C — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:29:48 +0000

So I’ve seen alot of names thrown around in here for catchers who may/may not be better than Molina. I decided to look at something to illustrate how much he affects the game. As a Cardinals fan I have seen the vast majority of Molina’s games for his career and one thing sticks out…very few basestealers even attempt to steal against him. This lack of attempts says more to me than CS% because it shows just how intimidated baserunners are. So after some digging around on BBREF I came up with a formula to determine how the rate of attempts against a catcher. The formula is SB+CS/SBO. SBO is the number of times a runner was on 1st or 2nd with the next base unoccupied. Here are the rates that I came up with for selected catchers:

Johnny Bench: 4.8%
Benito Santiago: 6.1%
Pudge Rodriguez: 4.3% (4.5% up to age 30)
Brian McCann: 6.5%
Carlos Ruiz: 6.1%
Russell Martin: 6.2%
Joe Mauer: 4.5%
Matt Wieters: 5.2%
Buster Posey: 7.7%!
and….

Yadier Molina: 3.5% (the fear!)

By: bbk1000

bbk1000 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:23:53 +0000

Didn’t Johnny Bench once say “if Jerry Grote was on my team, I’d be playing third base.”?

By: townballblog

townballblog — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:01:59 +0000

Dan1111: Excellent point! Even more though, if you look at pitch track (let’s MLB at Bat app or something similar), a fastball released at ~92mph will reach home plate at ~86mph or so; that’s 60 feet. SO, for a ball to get there in the mid-80s, traveling a distance of over 125 feet, oh man! At least upper 90′s

Also, and sorry if someone else already mentioned this…THE PITCH WAS AN 87MPH CHANGEUP!!!!!

By: rs2driver

rs2driver — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:58:12 +0000

Nice…not thrilling, but nice. Nice =J. Bench,I. Rodriguez,J.Sundberg,Benito Santiago smoking dudes like this from his knees! and Rick Dempsey’s snap thows nailing guys at THIRD base

By: townballblog

townballblog — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:54:50 +0000

Yeah, but it’s the same audience

By: moogro

moogro — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:48:39 +0000

The quick release is awesome. Instead of directing the throw with the fingers and throwing through the ball, he saves time and maintains power by letting it roll off the fingers and accounting for the left to right curve. School in session.

By: schlom

schlom — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:26:53 +0000

Yes, all awesome clutch hitters bunt a runner over to third with no one out. That’s selfless baseball!

By: paperlions

paperlions — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:47:18 +0000

It is tough to compare a 70s catcher to a 00s catcher. Pitchers seem to throw a lot more stuff in the dirt these days with the smaller parks, larger/stronger players, and focus on keeping the ball down, more diving hard cutters, sliders, and splitters (which didn’t exist when Bench caught). Both Bench and Yadi were/are among the best at blocking preventing WP/PB, but not necessarily THE best. Both were/are the best at controlling the running game during their eras, but the eras are very different, teams now understand that losing a runner on the bases has a big cost and success rates need to be pretty high for SBs to be worth while, so….in general, only the better base stealers are running…previously, anyone that was kind of fast ran, with the fastest guys running more….but SB success rates of 60% weren’t considered bad back then.

Seems to me that both guys had/have elite combination of catcher skills within the context of their eras and arguing about who was “best” is an exercise in futility….both were/are great defensive catchers, that’s should be good enough.

By: Jeremy Fox

Jeremy Fox — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:09:25 +0000

Let me fix that for you: (No matter what massive piles of data say)

“Hitting” is a repeatable skill. “Consistently hitting better in ‘the clutch’ than I do at other times” is not.

By: illadelphiasphinest

illadelphiasphinest — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:59:25 +0000

Wanna see somthing sick .gif Erik Kratz throwing out Jordan Schafer(hes fast) from his knees last night. Now that is sick!!

By: scatterbrian

scatterbrian — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:51:27 +0000

Best defensive catcher in the era of animated gifs? Sure, I’ll give you that.

By: yahmule

yahmule — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:47:04 +0000

Bench probably was more influential in his catching style than anybody who came before him. Hiding the bare hand behind his knee spared him the broken fingers associated with the position and was quickly adopted by his peers. No longer would shaking hands with an old catcher be like reaching into a bag of peanuts. I would say that Jim Sundberg might have enjoyed a longer period of sustained excellence as a defensive catcher.

By: dcfan4life

dcfan4life — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 15:33:40 +0000

Different writer, different outlook on Yadier…

By: cur68

cur68 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:57:02 +0000

Carter, baby. Carter.

By: cur68

cur68 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:55:22 +0000

I claimed him as my Faux Brother some time ago. For this irony laden insult to my family I shall have to fight you. Choose your weapons from the tools of ignorance, sir, and prepare to take a beating.

By: stex52

stex52 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:54:08 +0000

And I forgot Pudge in the last note. Greatest ever is tough in any case. I might still say Bench, but Pudge in his prime was unbelievable, too.

By: cur68

cur68 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:51:58 +0000

Motte: that’s why he’s a pitcher these days.

By: pinkymartens

pinkymartens — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:50:43 +0000

Bench,Carter,Campanella…..to name a few.Bench and Pudge are my two favorites.

By: stex52

stex52 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:50:23 +0000

It is in no way a slight to Molina to say that Bench was more likely the best ever. Molina is great. Bench was from another world.

By: dan1111

dan1111 — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:49:56 +0000

It’s even more impressive when you consider that pitch speed is measured at the release point. 85 mph average over that distance is at least a low 90s fastball.

By: pinkymartens

pinkymartens — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:49:00 +0000

Yep. Bench was a stud.

By: pinkymartens

pinkymartens — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:48:24 +0000

Lol aints97….you need a history lesson. For one,look at Ivan Rodriguez defensive stats for his career. Not only did he have a cannon arm but he called a great game and won 13 gold gloves. He also turned into an offensive machine. Give Molina a few more years before even attempting a statement like that. It’s like calling the Saints a dynasty after one Bowl.