Comments on: Omar Vizquel passes Babe Ruth on the all-time hits list

By: oliverbaseball

oliverbaseball — Sat, 22 Sep 2012 00:23:44 +0000

Omar is the greatest DEFENSIVE shortstop of his era and probably in the history of the game (see the numbers) Ozzie is better than him in assists, WAR and doing the BACKFLIP…

By: flavadave10

flavadave10 — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:27:38 +0000

Gold Gloves are meaningless. Also, Aparicio and Ozzie Smith both played either all of their career or a majority of their career during a time when shortstops were not productive offensively. I’d love to hear an argument as to how Omar Vizquel is one of the greatest shortstops of his era. Alan Trammel is more deserving than Omar Vizquel.

By: flavadave10

flavadave10 — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:22:31 +0000

Except that when Aparicio was let in, shortstops still weren’t expected to hit much. In context, Aparicio was one of the best shortstops of all time when he retired. You can’t say that for Vizquel. The position has changed drastically.

By: rarson

rarson — Thu, 20 Sep 2012 17:14:49 +0000

So I guess that means Chris Davis = Babe Ruth, since they both won a game and homered three times in a game in the same season.

By: dan1111

dan1111 — Thu, 20 Sep 2012 06:44:01 +0000

By advanced defensive metrics, both Smith and Aparicio were better than Vizquel. Smith was also a better hitter once you adjust for era.

I agree that Vizquel deserves respect for his impressive career, though.

By: oliverbaseball

oliverbaseball — Thu, 20 Sep 2012 01:16:09 +0000

11 gold gloves (2nd in history), 2974 games played (11th all time) 10574 at bats (15th all time), 12000 plates appareances (17th all time) 2874 hits (41 all time) 404 stolen bases, 2262 singles (17th all time) 8424 outs made (7 all time) 8040 assists (5th all time) 2708 defensife games SS (1st all time), Most DP as a SS (1st all time) 7675 assists SS (3rd all time) Defensive % SS (1st all time). Better offensive and deffensive numbers than Aparicio and Smith . I think that Omar deserves some respect and he is a Hall of Famer.

By: dnc6

dnc6 — Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:04:56 +0000

Even if he was the best defensive SS ever, should that really justify going to the Hall? Shouldn’t your all-around game be the ultimate determinant? What if Rey Ordonez somehow managed to never break his arm, and played Ozzie Smithesque defense for 10 years, while still amassing a 60 OPS+. Should we consider him?

By: ajcardsfan

ajcardsfan — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 21:04:12 +0000

You’re right that the 21 isn’t right, Rotoworld appears to be off. Baseball Reference shows him debuting in April 1989, so that would be 23. So 21 would have been true in 2010

By: dan1111

dan1111 — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 21:03:19 +0000

Aparicio is #6 all time in defensive WAR. He compiled significantly more defensive value than Vizquel, despite playing six fewer seasons (he was in the majors a mere 18 years!). I would say that, if you are going to let at least a few players in based primarily on defense, Aparicio is a good Hall choice.

Vizquel is tied for #10 all time, mainly because of his longevity. Lots of guys behind him had nearly his defensive value over shorter time periods, but no one ever thought of them for the Hall of Fame. Then again, his longevity is an achievement in itself. I don’t think he’s quite there, but he wouldn’t be the worst choice ever.

By: dan1111

dan1111 — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:52:29 +0000

That was true back in 2009.

By: jarathen

jarathen — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:03:36 +0000

Now all he has to do is pick up a few more Wins and he’ll pull even with Baby Ruth for good.

By: stlouis1baseball

stlouis1baseball — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:44:46 +0000

If you mean best defensive SS ever BEHIND Osborne Earl Smith…then you “may” be on to something.

By: nolanwiffle

nolanwiffle — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:31:55 +0000

Mark Belanger would also say hello…..if he were living.

By: alang3131982

alang3131982 — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:29:17 +0000

Also, what about Luis Aparicio — he payed predominantly in the AL….

By: chew1985

chew1985 — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:26:34 +0000

Babe’s hits covered a lot more real estate, and were louder.

By: thefalcon123

thefalcon123 — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:26:25 +0000

Aparicio probably shouldn’t be in and was better than Omar anyway.

Luis had an identical OPS+, probably about equal on defense, lead the league in steals 9 times, stole 100 more bases with fewer times caught stealing.

He wasn’t a lot better, but he was a bit better.

By: thefalcon123

thefalcon123 — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:21:32 +0000

What a bunch of nonsense.

Ruth was fat, slow, and couldn’t field or steal a base (he *barely* was above 50% as a basestealer over the course of his career). He wasn’t much of a fielder either.

I mean, they are obviously equal as hitter, what with the same number of hits and all. But with Vizquel’s basestealing and defense, he is obviously superior to Babe Ruth.

By: proudlycanadian

proudlycanadian — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:18:15 +0000

He just hit a RBI double to pass the Babe.

By: thefalcon123

thefalcon123 — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:18:15 +0000

Defensive bWar:
Smith: 43.4
Vizquel: 28.5

UZR:
Smith: 239
Vizquel: 129

FRAA:
Smith: 169.9
Vizquel: 14.1

Any way you slice it, Smith was a better fielder than Vizquel and it isn’t even close.

By: takemytalentstosoutheuclid

takemytalentstosoutheuclid — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:03:01 +0000

How about best defensive SS in the American League, ever? As someone old enough to have seen both Vizquel and Ozzie play, I can say it is really close.

By: skipperxc

skipperxc — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:57:15 +0000

Ozzie Smith says hi.

By: sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo

sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:56:38 +0000

Nope. They are the same. Now the stats prove it.

#sarcasm

By: proudlycanadian

proudlycanadian — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:52:32 +0000

A neat feat for a guy known for his glove rather than his hitting. Not sure if he will get enough at bats to tie Ott. He will probably sit out tonight’s game, but might play tomorrow. Hechavarria will be the prime beneficiary of Escobar’s time off.

By: Francisco (FC)

Francisco (FC) — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:50:53 +0000

Well… if they let Luis Aparicio in, I can’t see Omar being excluded. Unless of course, you think Luis Aparicio shouldn’t have been inducted in the first place.

By: proudlycanadian

proudlycanadian — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:47:01 +0000

He is a tad thinner than Ruth.

By: sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo

sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:43:12 +0000

Now statistically proven: Omar Vizquel = Babe Ruth

By: ajcardsfan

ajcardsfan — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:36:59 +0000

The man has been playing in the Major Leagues for 21 years, that alone is impressive

By: thomas2727

thomas2727 — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:35:00 +0000

Once Omar passed that magic 2,866 number his Hall of Fame ticket was punched. Or maybe it was not?

By: clevelandschronic2

clevelandschronic2 — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:34:28 +0000

Great player hope he gets in HOF. Best defensive SS ever.