Comments on: Cabrera vs. Trout brings to mind 2001 AL MVP battle

By: chuckj1234

chuckj1234 — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 23:33:59 +0000

Trout is a five tool player Cabrera is not. Very few of those anymore. Case closed.

By: richlandguy

richlandguy — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 05:21:49 +0000

Cabrera was more valuable for the Tigers than Trout was to the Angels. Without Cabrera the Tigers don’t make the playoffs. With Trout the Angels still don’t make the playoffs.

By: anythingbutyanks

anythingbutyanks — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 00:22:24 +0000

In that very limited scenario there are quite a few people I would take over Trout at this point in his career. The situation you’ve chosen as a proxy has simply zero bearing on who is the MVP for the 2012 season.

By: dino1730

dino1730 — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 20:22:06 +0000

Both are having historic seasons offensively, and this is so hard to pick between the 2. I would vote Cabrera, personally. Cabrera is definitely the best hitter in baseball, and as far as I’m concerned hitting is the hardest part of the game of baseball. Trout is a superb offensive player with many different ways of producing runs for a team, but for me, if it was game 7 of the World Series, tied in the 9th, in any situation I would rather have Cabrera at the dish than Trout.

By: dino1730

dino1730 — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 19:54:24 +0000

By: xjokerz

xjokerz — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 07:27:42 +0000

Oh look another trout nut hugger miggy deserves it, and the Angels… 4 games back of the playoffs. Next please

By: krzyman70

krzyman70 — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 03:08:45 +0000

Lets not forget that Cabrera willingly switched from 1st base to 3rd place so that the Tigers could sign Prince Fielder. Not too many superstars with their egos would do that. While he might not be a gold glove 3rd baseman, he’s been a lot better defensively than anyone would expect. He’s only made 13 errors.

By: frank433

frank433 — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 02:08:56 +0000

Here’s my beef with the “defensive comparison”
Miguel is “more valuable” to the Tigers as an average 3rd baseman than Trout is to the Angels as a gold glove caliber center fielder because of the flexibility it gave the Tigers to sign Prince Fielder. Yes, Trout is a better defender at his position than Cabrera, but that’s more a gold glove argument, not necessarily a MVP decider.

On a side note, Cabrera is posting a career best defensive WAR this season. I’m amused by that fact after all the hand wringing about his terrible defense

By: raysfan1

raysfan1 — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 02:07:10 +0000

hg…
Nothing to jump on. Trout might have hit a wall. Then again, he might not have. Starting in April introduces variables that cannot be reasonably tested. For the same reason nobody can reasonably say Trout would have hit x more HRs or RBIs.

By: frank433

frank433 — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 01:59:04 +0000

Tigers are 78-55 (.586) with Austin Jackson in the lineup in 2012. 8-18 without (.308).

By: drpompanoduke

drpompanoduke — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 01:53:27 +0000

Really a game in September in a division race counts the same as an April game in the rain where everyone wants to get off the field…. Gosh that’s right Reggie was known as Mr May……the kid from LA is well under 300 in the 2nd half & even lower in Sept. There are a lot of CF who field & steal bases while hitting 250. Perhaps we should not put him into the HOF until he hits above 300 after all star break.

By: dcfan4life

dcfan4life — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 22:27:56 +0000

I have realized in this little “rant” that i didn’t even make a dent in the minds of some here. I think we both agree if you play baseball, and have intense situations, then you have clutch pitching and hitting. Anyone who says stats don’t show that confuses me. A pitcher has to make a pitch, a hitter has to make a hit, all in front of 60,000 fans and many more on tv watching or they lose a game that can cost the postseason and somehow that isnt clutch. I dont get that logic and i agree with you, no point going nuts if your not changing anyones mind either right?

By: djpostl

djpostl — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 20:18:48 +0000

All these people criticizing Trout down the home stretch need to look at Miggy’s splits before talking.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/share.cgi?id=muLF6

By: frug

frug — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 20:08:40 +0000

Trout

OBP
Pre AS .397
Post AS .394

SLG
Pre AS .562
Post AS .552

Yes his batting average dropped, but he compensated by drawing more walks and hitting for more raw power.

By: witeman10

witeman10 — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 19:36:03 +0000

im done arguing this (thats a lie).

but its cool, trout can have MVP if people love the WAR stat so much. Maybe miggy can just get the world series MVP, since he’ll actually have a chance at it unlike Trout…

By: lks311

lks311 — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:58:06 +0000

This is a stirring debate. I’d vote Cabrera. Trout has had a great year, but why did it take almost a month to promote him to the big leagues? If he had missed 22 games because of injuries would we still be touting his candidacy so loudly? Just saying.

By: sophiethegreatdane

sophiethegreatdane — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:46:25 +0000

This is very nearly the only comment that matters out of the bunch. Sums up the matter quite nicely.

And by the way, Clutch can only be seen — it can’t be measured with them fancy sabermetric detect-o-tron machines.

By: stlouis1baseball

stlouis1baseball — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:45:19 +0000

“One last fact. If Miguel Cabrera spoke good english and looked like, say, Joe Mauer, and was about to win the triple crown—-there wouldn’t be so many people saying he shouldn’t win the MVP. Hate to bring that into it, but people just looooove them some Mike Trout.”

You don’t “hate” to bring that into it. You love bringing that into it.
No different than all the other race baiters.
Go back to following the NFL.

By: witeman10

witeman10 — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:15:26 +0000

i think it should also be taken into consideration that miguel cabrera has one of the greatest mugshots in the history of baseball…

his mugshot also shows his infectious smile that he clearly likes to maintain even in the worst of situations. that’s called an intangible. something the tigers clubhouse benefits from wen the team is struggling…

MVP! MVP!

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:14:20 +0000

dcfan4life, you have to understand that the commenters on HBT think that the players are robots. That the game situation doesn’t matter. These are people who think that the 3rd inning is as stressful as the 9th inning. They don’t believe in the save and they most certainly do not believe in clutch. If you can’t make up a number for something, then it simply does not exist. Don’t try to get any of these people to agree with you. They never will. What they do is go to their conferences, they will vote for their sabre-hero wet dream Trout over Cabrera for MVP, even though most of the players would vote for Cabrera. The sabre-geeks will tell you that most of the GMs would vote for Trout. So? Are we building a team or are we voting for the guy that the people who play with him on the field think has had the best season? Of course, the GMs. If the guy wins the Triple Crown, he should be a lock, but sadly, sabremetrics has devalued HRs, RBIs and BA to the point where a guy who is on a pace to knock in 120 runs is just having a so-so season.

It’s the reason I have mostly lurked here this year…oh and also the Phillies have sucked so bad that even the master baiter wasn’t on his A game this year. He’s just a softee anymore.

By: Jason @ IIATMS

Jason @ IIATMS — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 18:01:13 +0000

The worst part is if Trout wins (and he’d have my vote), it will again be a referendum on “stat heads” vs. “old school”, much like they did when Felix and Lincecum won their Cy’s without gaudy win totals.

Their teams are both in the race for the playoffs, so that’s irrelevant to me (regarding if one team makes it and the other doesn’t; not like we’re talking cellar-dwellers).

To me, defense counts a ton.

Also, I’d give strong consideration to total bases, which favors Trout (at last I checked).

I won’t cry if Cabrera wins but I think Trout has been the more complete contributor to his team’s success, hence Most Valuable.

By: loungefly74

loungefly74 — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:33:49 +0000

well…in the grand scheme of things…i am NOT old school, i admit. i started watching baseball in the mid 80′s…i guess thats not really old school. but to me, it is…considering how different the game is viewed today statstically.

paperlions, yeah, i deserve to flogged, tarred n’ feathered for sounding like an old grumpy man. i guess my feelings are hurt that the stats i grew up with, at the time, were well revered (BA, RBI, HR)…how the hell am i supposed to feel growing up thinking the triple crown was of only of legend? and now…in 2012…the triple crown? ehhh…outdatted? it pisses me off! alright…(collecting my nerves)

If Trout wins…good for him…his numbers are MVP worthy. and yes, fundamentals and quality defense is extremely important…cant argue with you on that, paperlions…i’m just being a little whiny b*tch…

God…I love baseball…

By: witeman10

witeman10 — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:23:45 +0000

i cant wait for next year to see trout bat below .300 while cabrera bats near .330 again and everyone is like…hmmm maybe cabrera really is the better player and trout was more of a WONDERBOY fluke! hahaha trollololol

GO TIGERS! LETS CLINCH TONIGHT!!

look out for them tigers son. they have the mythical clutch power hitting that the cardinals had last year, and if scherzer is healthy they’ll have a Verlander, Fister, Scherzer, Sanchez rotation….about as good as any if not arguably the best in the AL.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:04:27 +0000

Man, I hope you stretched first.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:03:08 +0000

I love how people that consider themselves “old school”, who are generally the first to decry the lack of fundamentals or quality defense, are also the first to ignore all of the “old school” qualities (aggressive and good base running, awesome defense) that Trout brings that Cabrera does not.

By: kevinbnyc

kevinbnyc — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:00:19 +0000

Two takeaways here:

1. Does the fact that Trout played 22 fewer games than Cabrera make his season flawed? I feel like its that much more impressive. He could conceivably have come close to a 40/40 season.

2. Ichiro was clearly on steroids on 2001. He must have been to beat out all those juicers. (Sarcasm…for the oblivious)

By: witeman10

witeman10 — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 16:59:01 +0000

let’s compare the consistency of these two players…

Cabrera:

Overall AVG
Pre All-Star .324
Post All-Star .327

Trout:
AVG
Pre All-Star .341
Post All-Star .302

wat trout backers seem to ignore is just how significant a difference there is between trout’s 1st and 2nd half numbers. This major drop in batting average to me indicates that the .341 he batted pre all star was a bit of a fluke resulting from pitchers trying to figure out a batter they’ve never faced before. Trout likely isn’t as good a batter that his overall average for this year suggests or he would’ve been able to maintain his average throughout a larger sample size like cabrera did. since the all start break he has regressed perhaps to the mean. and that mean would not be MVP worthy against cabrera, who has been steady and consistent for all 162 games. something to be said about consistency vs. a flukey hot streak.

By: craggt

craggt — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 16:42:25 +0000

You’re missing his point. He’s saying he doesn’t care about the award, he cares about being in the playoffs, which true Tigers fans should care about.

By: craggt

craggt — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 16:42:12 +0000

You’re missing he point. He’s saying he doesn’t care about the award, he cares about being in the playoffs, which true Tigers fans should care about.

By: pauleee

pauleee — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 16:14:33 +0000

I cannot FUCKING believe you just introduced race into this argument! And preficed it by calling it “fact”.

//nfl in username
//stands by previous statements