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Phillies fire three coaches; Ryne Sandberg promotion next?

Oct 3, 2012, 5:40 PM EDT

Carlos Ruiz, Sam Perlozzo AP

Minutes after their season came to an end with a 5-1 loss the Phillies announced that three members of manager Charlie Manuel’s coaching staff will not be back in 2013.

Bench coach Pete Mackanin, hitting coach Greg Gross, and first base coach Sam Perlozzo have all been let go, while pitching coach Rich Dubee and third base coach Juan Samuel will apparently stay on the staff.

Jim Salisbury of reports that Triple-A manager Ryne Sandberg is expected to get a promotion to join Manuel’s staff, although his likely role is unclear.

Philadelphia briefly got back into the Wild Card hunt following a brutal start, but finished 81-81 to snap a nine-season streak of winning records that dates back to Larry Bowa as manager.

  1. drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 5:46 PM

    They should hire Davey Lopes and Milt Thompson to go along with Sandberg as bench coach.

    • Jonny 5 - Oct 3, 2012 at 9:22 PM

      Lopes was worth the money he wanted imo. Perlozzo has always been kind of a waste and Gross is probably unfairly being canned. Mackanin I figure is moving onto bigger things anyway so this whole thing is of no bother to me. I’d like Milt back too come to think of it. I’m of the mind that these guys make little to no difference in the win column anyway. I blame this season on Ruben Amaro and his silly off season where he made two good moves and one smart one. The two good moves were Papelbon and Pierre. The one smart move was Pierre. Basically the bullpen and Charlie not being able to micromanage that mess on top of Howard and Utley being out cost them the season. Most of that is Amaro’s fault.

    • glanatto - Oct 3, 2012 at 10:05 PM

      I agree that those guys should of never left .just look at stats when milt was hear as hitting coach and look at the steals when lopes was here . Look back to 08 when jimmy Williams left as bench coach he was making most of Chalie decisions . If you watched games that season Chalie went to him often for opinions . There was a reason why he quit why would you want quit after winning a championship there was something wrong with that picture . Anyway I will not be expecting championships with the Phil’s in a long time.

      • mJankiewicz - Oct 4, 2012 at 2:19 PM


  2. proudlycanadian - Oct 3, 2012 at 5:48 PM

    Interesting! In other years, Mackanin has been mentioned in managerial searches, so I wonder what is going on.

    • greymares - Oct 3, 2012 at 7:51 PM

      Mackanin to manage Boston

  3. mox19380 - Oct 3, 2012 at 5:49 PM

    ….and the ryne sandberg era creeps closer.

  4. lumpyf - Oct 3, 2012 at 5:49 PM

    I’ve been saying all along the 1B coach is a big reason for the Phillie’s problems this year. What does the bench coach do besides keep the manager company in the dugout?

    • jayscarpa - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:08 PM

      What does a 1B coach do to be a big problem?

      • commonsenseisnotcmonman - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:25 PM

        i could make a case for firing Juan Samuel, he had some bonehead decisions as 3B coach.

      • paul621 - Oct 3, 2012 at 7:15 PM

        In this case, I can’t say for sure. But overall, they (can) have a big impact on the running game. The Phillies were dumb to ever let Lopes go. When he was out there with his stopwatch, the Phils were awesome at stealing bases (and probably other aspects of base running that don’t show up in box scores).

      • whiteyandharry - Oct 3, 2012 at 8:47 PM

        Last 2 years of Lopes coaching 1st averages 114 SB’s and 25 Caught Stealing for a 21.1% CS Pct. 1st 2 years with Perlozzo, 106 SB’s and 23 CS’s for a 21.7 Pct. Very, very slight difference. They didn’t go 81-81 this year because they didn’t steal. They went 81-81 because Pense, Victorino, Mayberry and Jimmy had bad, bad 1st halfs. So did middle relief. They went 44-31 in 2nd half for .587 pct.

  5. jimw81 - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:03 PM

    I wonder if this open the speculation of Charlie Manuel for 2013. As a phillies fan who was gratified to seen phillies win world series in 2008, I think it’s best for Charlie to hang it up and let sanberg take over the team. Look at what happen to team since 2009.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:05 PM

      97 and 102 wins before this season?

    • commonsenseisnotcmonman - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:13 PM

      i was thinking it may be time to nudge Charlie into retirement, but you cant argue with his success, he made a minor league team for 3/4ths the season into an 81-81 major league ball club.

  6. crankyfrankie - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:11 PM

    I thin/hope Charlie will be leaving at the end of 2013 and he has earned the right to do so. Lopes should have been paid the extra money to stay years ago.

  7. jimw81 - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:13 PM

    Playoff performances:
    08- World Series
    09 – world series lost
    10 – nlcs lost
    11 – nlds lost
    12- no playoffs

    • commonsenseisnotcmonman - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:18 PM

      but what happened from 1994 through 2007?

      1994-2006 No playoffs
      2007 lose NLDS

    • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:19 PM

      If you base decisions upon playoff performance, you will fail as a franchise. Why don’t we just sign Darin Ruf to a 7 yr/ 210 million contract….after all he had a OPS of 1.078. See how stupid and ridiculous it is to base things upon a few games?

  8. jimw81 - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:18 PM

    I’m not nagging on charlie’s success, but I feel he losing voice and team is losing that spunk. They need new spunk in manager’s office.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:21 PM

      The Phillies were bad this year because of the line-ups Charlie had to put out there and the garbage in the bullpen. Seriously, when one of your most productive players is Juan Pierre…issues abound. Halladay being hurt then proceeding to suck didn’t help either.

      • commonsenseisnotcmonman - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:24 PM

        exactly, minor league players not being able to translate their success to major league level is key, signing free agents younger than 35 would also help.

        As good as Papelbon was, I dont think closer was an IMMEDIATE need, Madsen was decent last year.

  9. marvinband9 - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:31 PM

    Rollins comments that if not for injuries Nationals would have been second, did this idiot notice the injuries to the Nationals and they were way above the phillies in wins etc. Typical Philadelphian fan, player and jerk.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:35 PM

      You want to have a constructive conversation…fine. But stop insulting Phillies fans for shits and giggles. Seriously, I’m tired of this shit….stereotyping an entire fanbase and whatnot. Do you even know any Phillies fans? Actually know them? Probably not. So, what gives you the right to judge?

      • nocryinginbaseball07 - Oct 4, 2012 at 4:28 AM

        I’m pretty sure that someone who refers to us as “Philadelphian fans” doesn’t know any Phillies fans. I agree; fanbase bashing is tiresome.

  10. dcfan4life - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:34 PM

    Discussing the Nationals’ newfound success, Phillies shortstop Jimmy Rollins said: “With us being healthy, they’re still second place.”

    If the orginization believed that then why these dismisalls Mr. Rollins? God i hope even more that the Phillies are total crap next year too. Didn’t know i could dislike them more, but somehow i do.

    Tomorrow at 2:53 PM Jayson Werth will say “Let me know how i look in the playoffs Jimmy.”

    • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:37 PM

      Enjoy your one divisional title and 3 playoff games.

      • dcfan4life - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:45 PM

        Enjoy an offseason of turmoil and no playoff games lol.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:47 PM

        Yeah, I will be crying myself to sleep tonight since there will be no Phillies in the post season. I love the Phillies and I like this message board but it is all in the name of fun….a sometimes pleasant distraction. Taking this shit too seriously is something I refuse to do. I am 32, not 14.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:49 PM

        I enjoy banter and discussion. If the Phillies not making the playoffs is my biggest concern over the past 6 months…then, I either would be living the most awesome life ever or be a sad, sad human being.

      • dcfan4life - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:57 PM

        Then y the silly retort to begin with? cant take the high road once you started taking the low road. and if u truly feel that way great, cuz most philly fans are quite ridiculous. No national player has ever tried to diminish anything the Phillies accomplished. Rather than just saying we will be back, Rollins is more or less saying we got lucky they got hurt. Thats rather petty and stupid since we got hurt, a lot, ourselves. Id open a whole new topic just on that comment if i were HBT. See where others stand.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 7:00 PM

        Did you not read the part where I said “I like banter”? Pretty much answers the question right there. I’m not trying to take any type of high road…merely stating that I don’t take any of this seriously….except personal stereotypes and attacks on Philadelphia or its fans.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 7:02 PM

        Dude, it’s just what Rollins does. Are you really that offended by it? Does it piss you off that much? Athletes get shit all the time for saying the same cliched nonsense. Personally, I like it when athletes say what they truly think. Is that not one of the reasons people like Bryce Harper so much?

      • dcfan4life - Oct 3, 2012 at 7:22 PM

        It did bug me a little, but am i angry? no. I was hoping mentioning it could get its own topic. Cuz i can see it being a hot topic. Look at it go in this topic.

      • paperlions - Oct 3, 2012 at 8:07 PM

        While that may have been fun to type….the Nats pitching staff will be as good or better than that of the Phillies next year, their lineup will be better, and their defense will be better….they are just a younger, more talented and more athletic club….and Philly doesn’t really have anything in the minors that is that close to helping.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 8:13 PM

        I guess we shall see Paperlions. I’ve given up on the notion of predicting sport. All those things might be true, but baseball is an odd game. Should the A’s be AL West Champions? Should the Orioles be where they are at game 162? There are a lot of things that should and shouldn’t be…. but those things don’t often pan out who we see them. When I look at the Phillies, I see a team that with a couple decent bullpen arms and players returning to health is a smidge better than the Nats. Just my opinion.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 8:14 PM

        The way we see them….not who. Ugh.

    • delawarephilliesfan - Oct 3, 2012 at 6:59 PM

      Yea….last time Jimmy made a statement like that, he went out and won the MVP award, and the Phillies won 5 divisons in a row.

      You Nats fans sounds more and more like Mets fans all the time. Remember the ’06 Mets? Yea, I didn’t think so.

      • dcfan4life - Oct 3, 2012 at 7:07 PM

        See now that is a truly bitter Philly fan. I rest my case on this kind of “look at us, look what we can do, what we have done, how awesome we are” Philly attitude even though they didn’t go anywhere. You dont see Rays, White Sox, or Dodgers players or fans saying any of this. Take the high road and professional say “good job and good luck Nats, we got our work cut out for us next year. Got a great division and expect one heck of a fight next season.” Everyone can respect a comment like that, not one like “hey, you got lucky” kind of ridiculous attitude.

      • delawarephilliesfan - Oct 4, 2012 at 8:52 AM

        Wow, feeling a little insecure there?

        When Jimmy makes a comment, he works hard to back it up. These are facts

      • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 7:12 PM

        Yes, you have a sample size necessary to properly stereotype and entire city and fan base. Bravo to you sir.

    • schmedley69 - Oct 3, 2012 at 9:10 PM

      The Phillies had a perfect storm of injuries, much more than the Nats, which pretty much crippled them in the first half. They played pretty good ball the second half, and if they make a few key moves, they should be right back in the hunt next year. You baseball novices in D.C. can go on thinking that you have arrived and that the Phillies run is over, but I think you will be in for a rude awakening next year. We will find out if the Nats were one hit wonders or not.

      The Nats have been leaking oil down the stretch and have played .500 ball since Strasburg’s Mommy (Scott Boras) sent him home. You could very well be done by this time next week, and you may never reach these heights again. Even if the Phillies run is over (which it’s not), they had one of the greatest runs in franchise history and will always be remembered as one of the best teams of the early 2000’s. So far, the Nats have 1 measly division title won in a year when the defending champs were crippled by injuries. Got a long way to go before you can talk any trash to a Phillies fan.

      • dcfan4life - Oct 3, 2012 at 10:24 PM

        Funny how you call us baseball novices and totally write an inaccurate reply. I will break it down.

        You said the Phillies lost too many crippling injuries. Jayson Werth, Wilson Ramos, Ryan Zimmerman, Drew Storen, Michael Morse, Ian Desmond are not just as important?

        You said Scott Boras sent Strasburg home. No, Rizzo and Johnson sent him home. Boras is just happy they decided such. Strasburg was so pissed about this if it was just Boras’s idea he’d be fired.

        You said we have a long way to go before we can talk trash to any Phillies fans, well it isnt hard with someone who has no facts and says uneducated comments as attacks.

        Now to my reply, the nats starting rotation suffered no major injuries. Neither did the Phillies. The Nats bullpen suffered a major injury in their closer Storen, the Phillies never lost Papelbon. So pitching wise both teams had their same core players, and you would give the advantage to the Phillies in health there. Now what the real difference is the replacement players. The Nats were so deep that many guys you have never heard of carried us. Bryce Harper became a staple in center field. When the Phillies got healthy they played better. The Nats played the same healthy or not all season. That resulted in 17 more victories for the Nats. Thats not a fluke. Thats a deep farm system. Thats the future. The Phillies run may be done unless they reload this offseason. But name some prospects that have panned out for the Phillies replacing key injuries. id love to see how deep your baseball knowledge really is so us novices can learn something…

  11. dcfan4life - Oct 3, 2012 at 7:17 PM

    Lets see, ive been to Philly a lot, met there fans a lot, seen there fans a lot, and as of right now, you may be one of maybe 2 or 3 fans ive ever met in 20 years that can have a professional conversation involving your teams without going nuts and insulting the hell out of your counterpart. For that i thank you. But you know ur city and their players and their fans. The culture is just plain mean for no reason sometimes. You can’t deny that.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 7:28 PM

      Honestly, I think it is a vocal minority. An issue of perception.

      • professormaddog31 - Oct 4, 2012 at 12:41 AM

        I know plenty of Phillies fans, and 9 times out of 10 they are actually really cool about things. Unless you are a Braves fan and then it’s on. I bust heads with my best friend all the time about the Braves; even at that it’s all in good fun. To be honest I have had more problems with Yankees fan than any other fanbase.

  12. skowitz407 - Oct 3, 2012 at 7:26 PM

    Bring back Davey Lopes and trade Samuel for Dykstra and a Phanatic to be named later.

    • delawarephilliesfan - Oct 4, 2012 at 8:55 AM

      Good one – but you should have worked in Roger McDowell as well 😉

  13. greymares - Oct 3, 2012 at 8:01 PM

    If you think the Phillies won’t be back, check the won/loss from the time Utley/Howard got back on the field and that is without Halladay’s time missing in the 2nd half and the Roster moves that will be starting shortly. the coaches were not re-signed not fired Mackanin will be managing the Red Sox Gross wants out and Perlozzo is older than dirt, no biggy there.

    • natslady - Oct 3, 2012 at 8:48 PM

      Six members of the Phillies’ projected Opening Day lineup and rotation (Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Carlos Ruiz, Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Placido Polanco) missed a combined 309 games this season, a tough obstacle to overcome. Rollins, though, apparently forgot that five members of the Nationals’ projected Opening Day lineup (Werth, Zimmerman, Morse, Ian Desmond, Wilson Ramos) and their projected closer (Drew Storen) missed a combined 380 games.

      And that doesn’t count Strasburg being out for most of September.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 8:54 PM

        I think people are making too much of this statement. He believes a full strength Phillies squad is better than a full strength Nats squad. Would you expect him to think any differently?

      • delawarephilliesfan - Oct 4, 2012 at 9:05 AM

        You do your homework, and you are not afraid to mix it up, so I give you credit. But if ever there were an apples to apples comparison, you just made it!

        The 6 Nat players you list have 3 All Star Game appearnces between them, and zero Cy Youngs or MVP’s

        The 6 Phillies have 22 All Star Games, 3 Cy Youngs and a MVP

      • delawarephilliesfan - Oct 4, 2012 at 9:06 AM

        Apples to oranges, I meant :)

  14. crankyfrankie - Oct 3, 2012 at 8:43 PM

    I do not think anyone, except maybe Craig, would argue that the Nats and the Phils are the two best teams in the east. Both have great ballparks. This rivalry could grow to SF vs LA and StL vs Cubs level. It is going to be a fun couple of years.

    • schmedley69 - Oct 3, 2012 at 9:18 PM

      Accept for the fact that Nats fans are totally lame. Couldn’t even sell out your clinching game. Only 35,000 in attendance. You’ve got a long way to go before we would consider you our rival. You guys are like all of the other fans in bad baseball towns like Miami and Tampa. If the team makes the playoffs, you show up and go crazy and act like you have been life long fans, but as soon as the next Opening Day comes along, empty seats abound. Sorry, there is too wide of disparity in passion between the two fan bases for there to be a rivalry. Mets, Braves, Cardinals, Dodgers, Pirates, Reds come before the Nats. We have long histories with those teams. The Washington Nationals? Bahahahahahaha! Get real.

      • dcfan4life - Oct 3, 2012 at 10:41 PM

        Schmedley69 has personally destroyed any credibility drmonkeyarmy was building with drmonkeyarmys strong solid posts supposedly representing the majority of Philly fans. Sorry drmonkeyarmy, Schmedley69 here is the philly fan we are all used to. Ignorant, loud, obnoxious, with bogus rants with no facts and ridiculous attacks for no real reason. None of his comments has been thought out, nothing he has said is understandable. And he does far more harm for his cause with his idiotic posts than good, if he does any good to begin with.

      • schmedley69 - Oct 4, 2012 at 8:39 AM

        I think the statements that Nats fans are lame and only had 35,000 for their clincher were dead-on balls accurate, as Marissa Tomei would say. Lame, pathetic, fan base. Have to have a big promotion to keep a rival fan-base out of your park. Phillies fans were driving 2.5 hours to go to games in your own park, while your own fans were too lazy to get on the subway. They would rather stay home and watch Meet the Press. Natitude!!!!

  15. crankyfrankie - Oct 3, 2012 at 8:55 PM

    BTW enjoyed the Fakenatic helping Teddy win today. Mocking each others mascots will just help the rivalry. Maybe if we really build the rivalry will be on ESPN for all games just like the sox and the yanks.

    • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 9:06 PM

      Man I hope not. I can’t take ESPN announcing crews. I prefer listening to Wheels. Yes, I said that.

    • schmedley69 - Oct 3, 2012 at 9:19 PM

      The Phanatic is a legend. The best mascot in baseball. The presidents are a ripoff of the Milwaukee sausages, and I’ve seen better high school mascots than Screech. Get over yourself already.

  16. schmedley69 - Oct 3, 2012 at 9:25 PM

    Let’s face it people. The Phillies are baseball royalty. One of the oldest and most beloved franchises in all of sports, with generations upon generations of fans. The Nats are trailer park trash who won Lotto and are trying to join the country club, thinking that they belong. Like most lottery winners, they will recklessly blow their winnings and go right back to the trailer park.

    • dcfan4life - Oct 3, 2012 at 10:27 PM

      Beloved? HA.

      Royalty? HA.

      This guy has to be a troll. These comments are way too stupid not to try and incite retaliation.

      • xmatt0926x - Oct 3, 2012 at 11:20 PM

        Dcfan, there may be lots of boorish Phillies fans as there are for any team that has been doing well. Your problem is that you are being just as petty and childish yet judging an entire fanbase for being the same. If the Nats continue their success for several seasons then you will see plenty of petty and obnoxious Nats fans. Believe me. There’s quite a few here already. That’s what happens with any team that starts winning. Don’t kid yourself. Your fans aren’t “different” or “special”. I could list several screen names of Nats fans who have been obnoxious jerks all year on this site along with the names of many Phillies fans who have been just as bad. It’s the way it goes.

      • schmedley69 - Oct 4, 2012 at 8:46 AM

        Yet you still replied. Hmmm. I’m in your head, dcfan4life. How bout those Redskins? Hahahaha, talk about a joke of a franchise. Dan Snyder is the biggest weasel in all of sports. And don’t get me started on the Bullets/Wizards. Dc Sports? Bahahahahahahaha!!!!

      • dcfan4life - Oct 4, 2012 at 5:10 PM

        Unfortunately I cant argue any attacks on the Wizards or Redskins. But the Nats and Caps are well run and competitive.

  17. thesmedman - Oct 3, 2012 at 10:20 PM

    No argument with bringing back Lopes. Should never have been allowed to leave.

    Move Sammy to 1B. Bring back the best third base coach in the game, Larry Bowa.

    Nudge Manuel to retirement. Either Sandberg to manage or bring back Francona.

    Keep Gross as an advance scout. He is being scapegoated.

    Get a third baseman. Sign Josh Hamilton.

  18. drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 10:36 PM

    You guys aren’t really helping my argument that all Phillies fans aren’t boorish.

    • dcfan4life - Oct 3, 2012 at 10:46 PM

      lol thats what i said.

      • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 3, 2012 at 10:53 PM

        If I’m the one trying to build credibility it is bound to fail. I’ve been known to rant from time to time. Did the other day about Jayson Werth…had nothing to do with the Nats really, just never liked that guy. Even when he was here and producing, I didn’t like him. I have no rational reason as to why. Something about him makes me agitated. Anyway, wish them luck in the playoffs. I was just messing around earlier with the whole being swept thing. This year, all the teams seem to be reasonably matched. I gave all division winner a 1 and 8 shot and the wild card teams a 1/16 shot.

      • dcfan4life - Oct 3, 2012 at 10:57 PM

        If you continue to post in this manor, even if we strongly disagree, i will continue to respect you. You might be the only Philly fan on this site ill respect, but thats one more than yesterday haha. Keep up the good arguments and a rant every now and then isnt a bad thing. It is however if its the only thing. Ya im talking to you Schmedley69 lol.

      • xmatt0926x - Oct 3, 2012 at 11:25 PM

        Again, DCfan, listen to yourself. Just the fact that you feel the need to give anyone your approval or respect as if that’s needed just shows how arrogant you are being while criticizing others for the same thing. Get over yourself for starters and in addition don’t hijack a post about another team just to spew your venom over what one player said about your favorite team. If Jimmy Rollins wanted to trash the Philly fans you would be praising his honesty and intellect.

      • dcfan4life - Oct 4, 2012 at 2:16 AM

        Clearly you have never been to Philadelphia lol.

      • schmedley69 - Oct 4, 2012 at 8:09 PM

        This dcfan4life guy takes himself way too seriously. That’s why am I trolling him. After all, this wouldn’t be HarballTalk if someone wasn’t getting trolled. Gotta keep these Nats fans grounded.

  19. ericellers - Oct 4, 2012 at 9:23 AM

    Let us revisit 2010 off season where all the talking heads predicted the Phillies and Sox to rule the MLB for a few years to come? Yes I admitted on paper even I was a reluctant believer, but the phillies inherited ( again) the cliff lee curse while publicly dissing the Yankee! To that I say HA! And let us not forget the Sox, so dismal has it been for them I will go no further. That being said I doff my cap to the phillie players for pulling it together and making it to 500 ball. You fans deserve as much. Enjoy the golf network!

  20. leftywildcat - Oct 4, 2012 at 12:59 PM

    Let’s see if Thome retires from the O’s after their postseason. Hitting coach possibility?

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