Comments on: One person’s theory on the horrible infield-fly call

By: rarson

rarson — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 06:33:25 +0000

I have no idea what you’re talking about in reference to Kozma lying. You’ll have to explain that to me. And I’ve never seen a player run away after they’ve lost the ball, primarily because if they lost it, then they have no idea where “away” is.

“he was about 5 feet in front of where it landed and moving in the wrong direction.”

I have no idea what you’re watching.

“He said so himself.”

When? Where? I haven’t seen or heard that anywhere, other than from you.

By: rarson

rarson — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 06:30:09 +0000

No need, the video is available right off MLB.com.

By: nixa37

nixa37 — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 18:28:38 +0000

“I didn’t hear anything,” Kozma said.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-10-05/sports/chi-cardinals-beat-braves-in-nl-wildcard-game-marred-by-infield-fly-rule-call-20121005_1_infield-fly-cardinals-chipper-jones

By: nixa37

nixa37 — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 18:26:29 +0000

Are you kidding rarson? First, he wasn’t in position to make the play. He was 5 feet in front of where the ball landed and moving in the wrong direction. Second, he said himself following the game that he didn’t hear anyone call him off and peeled off because he had lost the ball.

By: nixa37

nixa37 — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 18:23:57 +0000

Not to mention Kozma himself admitting after the game that he didn’t hear anything and only peeled off because he lost the ball.

By: nixa37

nixa37 — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 18:22:21 +0000

If you really don’t believe me, then I’m more than willing to post a screen cap of it up here. I still have it saved on my DVR.

By: nixa37

nixa37 — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 18:20:06 +0000

I have actually seen very few Braves fans pin the loss on the call, and every fan base has a few idiots in it. The vast majority are taking the same stance on the Braves, that it stinks that the ump made a bad judgment call, but they didn’t deserve to win the game regardless. Just because we would have liked to see how everything would have played out instead of watching trash get cleaned off the field for 20 minutes (and don’t act like those people represent all Braves fan, as less than 1% of Braves fans were at that game last night) doesn’t mean we blame the loss on the call. We just think it was the wrong call. Considering Holbrook claims he made the call because he saw Kozma under it, even though Kozma never got under it and Holbrook didn’t signal it until he peeled off, I don’t know how you can claim he wasn’t wrong.

By: nixa37

nixa37 — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 18:16:36 +0000

No he didn’t. He said so himself following the game. He peeled off because he had lost it. The ball was actually over his head and slightly behind him when he ran forward, so it’s not hard to tell why he couldn’t find it.

By: nixa37

nixa37 — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 18:15:21 +0000

So Kozma is just lying about the fact that he didn’t hear anything and ran away because he lost the ball? Why in the world would he do that? Besides, if you’ve actually seen his position before moving forward superimposed over where the ball lands, you would see that he was about 5 feet in front of where it landed and moving in the wrong direction. He ran off because he lost. He said so himself. I’m amazed by the level of cognitive dissonance necessary to just ignore that fact.

By: 4cornersfan

4cornersfan — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 18:15:15 +0000

My theory is that the ump saw Kozma peel off the ball and saw Holliday behind him in a position to make a play on the runners and called the infield fly, believing it to be intentional. Kozma obviously heard something that made him pull away; it could have been the ump or the crowd noise. Having said that, the call was inexcusable because the fly ball was was too difficult to be called an infield fly as evidenced by the umpire’s late call.

By: Alex K

Alex K — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 17:55:28 +0000

First, I’m not a Braves fan, at all. And the part about “make sure you understand ect…” was very condescending, in my opinion. The rest of it wasn’t.

I don’t think there is anything obvious about why he backed off. It was something, but we don’t know what it is. I just don’t agree with Matthew’s reasoning. It happens.

By: lvnwdablz

lvnwdablz — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 17:36:26 +0000

Few if any posters here know the infield fly rule. The ball does not have to necessarily be in the nearby infield . I would’ve have been livid with rage initially if I were a Braves fan. However, after listening to a detailed explanation of the rule the umpire’s call was correct. Furthermore, the other 5 umpires and MLB’s Commissioner’s assistant Joe Torre concurred.
Braves fans disgraced themselves with their boorish behavior yesterday, and many continue to whine like quintisential sore losers with their unsportsmanlike comments in this forum. The Braves lost because they didn’t bring their normal superior defense to their most important game of the season. Some would call this “choking”, Winners thrive under pressure situations. That’s why we have playoffs to determine which team has the most championship qualities and can rise to the occasion. Being a adult fan means accepting defeat gracefully. One has to be willing to understand that baseball is not a “feel good” movie. Tough losses are part of being a true fan, not one who shows up at the post season and throws projectiles onto the field risking forfeiture of game for their home team club.

By: rarson

rarson — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 16:50:28 +0000

@drmonkeyarmy

Actually, if he doesn’t call the IF, then the game DOES change: Atlanta’s runners don’t advance.

Bad call went in their favor. And they trashed their own stadium over it.

By: rarson

rarson — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 16:47:56 +0000

Alex: watch the replay. The video on MLB.com shows Kozma back off right as the ump makes the call.

You think the theory is wrong because Holliday would have been yelling over and over again. But he obviously wasn’t. So what are the other possible sources for the phantom yelling? Kozma was in position to make an easy play, he called for the ball, he backed off, he OBVIOUSLY thought that the left fielder was calling for it. I suppose it’s just coincidence that the ump was twenty feet away and making the infield fly call right as Kozma decided to back off.

I don’t think albert’s reply was “super condescending” at all, but if you’re a Braves fan that’s upset with a call that went in your favor, then it’s easy to see why you’d think that logic is condescending.

By: rarson

rarson — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 16:38:11 +0000

Way to demonstrate your lack of reading comprehension.

By: Alex K

Alex K — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 16:04:51 +0000

I don’t agree with that, either. If it was Holliday he would have been yelling “I got it” or whatever else over and over again. The ump wouldn’t have been yelling “infield fly” over and over again. So, yeah, I’m sticking with my original point that the theory is flawed.

Also, make sure not to be super condescending when typing a response.

By: rarson

rarson — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 14:46:21 +0000

Kozma obviously backed off the ball, just watch the replay. He was standing right where the ball landed.

What’s more annoying though is the fact that you Braves fans are bitching about this call when it HELPED YOU GUYS OUT. Everything from it being late to being an “infield fly” went in YOUR favor, numbnuts. Without that call, Kozma catches it and your runners are stuck at first and second.

So yeah, the real story here is that Braves fans are morons (and classless ones, too, seeing as they trashed their own field on national TV).

By: recoveringcubsfan

recoveringcubsfan — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 13:41:44 +0000

I like your theory.

By: recoveringcubsfan

recoveringcubsfan — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 13:38:47 +0000

An infield fly doesn’t have to be on the infield, strictly. It can be any routine, shallow fly ball where the fielders could turn a no-doubt double play by letting it drop.

The call was still wrong. But anyway, that’s the layman’s explanation of the rules.

By: djeter220

djeter220 — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 13:08:33 +0000

Exactly my point.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 12:01:31 +0000

How about this fact: there are only outfield umps in the playoffs, it isn’t a position/perspective that umpires are accustomed to.

By: nixa37

nixa37 — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 05:39:00 +0000

So I guess we can discredit this theory now that Kozma has said he heard nothing and was never under the ball. Funny how all these former umps are trying to defend the call when the player actually involved admits he wasn’t in position.

Biggest issue is that the rule apparently has never been changed since it was written in 1895. Might just be about time to update it and make it clear that the defense has to have a reasonable chance at getting an out for it to be called. Having people claim that you could have an infield fly called on the warning track if the infielder got out there in time, even though there would obviously be no way for the defense to drop it and get an out, shows how horribly written the rule is.

By: ezthinking

ezthinking — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 04:48:41 +0000

It wasn’t a bad call, it was a boot by the SS. No doubt he should have had it, but he bailed. That’s a boot. Once the ump yells “infield fly, batter out” the catch is irrelevant. No doubt the SS was there, he just tanked it.

By: nlfan865

nlfan865 — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 02:45:00 +0000

MP….You’re a MORON!!!

By: bradmoss1

bradmoss1 — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 02:40:11 +0000

“Watch Kozma’s eyes on the close up replay. You can tell he is having trouble tracking the ball and that’s why he bails.”

“He also appears upset after it falls to the ground. If he heard Holbrook call infield fly he wouldn’t have cared.”

__________________________________________________

100% correct. A close up replay shows Holliday didn’t say/yell anything, no way does Kozma see or hear the idiot ump say anything. The kid already had a previous error and screwed this up. He thought he could make the play, and when he realized he couldn’t, he bailed, hoping Holliday would. When he saw Holliday didn’t, he was distraught. Why would he be so distraught if he knew it was ruled infield fly? The answer: he didn’t know. The idiot ump saved him from a screw up.

By: drmonkeyarmy

drmonkeyarmy — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 02:13:42 +0000

With an attitude like that, he must be a Phillies fan….those lousy, loud mouthed, good for nothing bastards…..

By: seattlej

seattlej — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 02:13:37 +0000

Reading comprehension fail.

By: drmonkeyarmy

drmonkeyarmy — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 02:11:53 +0000

You have the exacta then. I have grudges against both these organizations for purely nonsensical reasons so I am just calling it like I see it sans bias.

By: seattlej

seattlej — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 02:11:52 +0000

What’s with all the jerk-offs posting stupid shit on here tonight. Usually you hear the ump make the call WELL before you’re getting in position to catch it. You don’t expect to be hearing that call made at that time and place.

By: stlouis1baseball

stlouis1baseball — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 02:10:46 +0000

I was going to comment but then I read this…
“If I were a Braves fan, I would have set fire to whatever I threw out.”