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Cain on plunking Holliday: “If one gets away, one gets away”

Oct 16, 2012, 7:31 PM EDT

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Giants ace Matt Cain said on the FOX broadcast of NLCS Game 2 that he felt Matt Holliday‘s takeout slide into the left knee of Marco Scutaro was “late.” Cain will start in Game 3 on Wednesday in St. Louis, and may or may not have retaliation on his mind.

This comes via CSN Bay Area’s Andrew Baggarly:

Scutaro has been diagnosed with a hip muscle strain and will be a game-time decision on Wednesday.

  1. drmonkeyarmy - Oct 16, 2012 at 7:36 PM

    I’m on the record as being pro-plunking but this is not the time.

    • marklar1025 - Oct 16, 2012 at 7:53 PM

      if you are pro-plunking – isn’t this the perfect situation to warrant it. a plunk and its over with?

      • drmonkeyarmy - Oct 16, 2012 at 7:59 PM

        No. Playoff baseball is not time to settle grudges by plunking. If the Giants want to plunk him, it should be next season.

      • paperlions - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:42 PM

        Yeah, if you plunk him now you risk immediate ejection….unless it is a blowout…it isn’t worth it….you can hit the guy next year when far less is at stake.

      • stlouis1baseball - Oct 17, 2012 at 9:30 AM

        I think it is a terrible time to do it. Matt Cain also isn’t the pitcher you want doing it.
        It’s the playoffs. You don’t give people bases in the playoffs.
        If the game is out of hand…sure…drill him.
        But Matt Cain isn’t the pitcher you want doing it. You want a rarely used middle reliever to do it.
        If the game is out of hand…and the bullpen is being used…I make a pitching change and drill him.
        Other than this scenario…the other option is next season.

    • gostlcards5 - Oct 17, 2012 at 2:37 PM

      I agree, doc. I have no problem with the Giants wanting to plunk him. What I do not understand is why they didn’t do it in the middle of a 7-1 blowout (I call it a “blowout” because as poorly as they were hitting against Vogelsong, it may as well have been 15-1). His last time up in that game would have been the perfect time to do it, IF you were going to do it in the playoffs.

      My other problem, Cain is a class-A douchebag for announcing it. Clue phone, buddy, if you SAY something about “one getting away”, people don’t believe it’s an accident when one gets away….plausible deniability.

      • gostlcards5 - Oct 18, 2012 at 1:50 PM

        I rescind the DB comment above. I saw the interview on DVR during the pregame yesterday. He wasn’t saying it in a way that was like “meh…if one gets away, one gets away.”

        I don’t remember the question, but the basics of his comment were that he couldn’t be afraid to pitch inside (or outside, for that matter). He was very low-key about it.

  2. koufaxmitzvah - Oct 16, 2012 at 7:40 PM

    It’d be great for Cain to plunk Holliday, and then have Holliday end up scoring a run.

    Postseason theater.

    • marklar1025 - Oct 16, 2012 at 7:54 PM

      kind of like how Scutaro got the big base clearing hit to open the game up?

      • koufaxmitzvah - Oct 16, 2012 at 10:02 PM

        Absolutely. Scutaro’s a stud.

        His play since the trade has been totally impressive.

      • amunoz78 - Oct 17, 2012 at 9:53 AM

        While he’s a good player for sure, I’m not sure ‘stud’ is ever a word that’s come to mind when I think of Scutaro.

  3. Carl Hancock - Oct 16, 2012 at 7:41 PM

    They need to be careful about making comments like that. It could lead to an immediate ejection and the Giants can’t afford to have Cain ejected from a playoff game. This is the playoffs and with the Cards lineup you can’t afford to give them a free baserunner.

    • sailcat54 - Oct 16, 2012 at 10:02 PM

      The umpires will probably issue a warning before the game officially starts. A plunk will result in an automatic ejection. The Giants cannot afford to lose Cain.

      • blacksables - Oct 17, 2012 at 8:06 AM

        Hit batters do not mean an automatic ejection, even after a warning. The umpire still has lattitude on what to do.

        If Cain throws a curverball that doesn’t break and hits Holliday behind the knee, he can still stay in the game.

        Its about intent. If the umpire thinks a pitcher threw at a batter, he can throw him out at any time, with or without a warning. If he thinks it was unintentional, then the pitchers stays.

        What the warning is for is the manager. With a warning the manger is gone automatically. Without, no ejection.

        Knowledge is power.

      • blacksables - Oct 17, 2012 at 8:07 AM

        The Major Leage Rulebook is on line, avaialable for everyone, for free.

        Actually reading it provides actual knowledge of the rules.

      • jm91rs - Oct 17, 2012 at 8:37 AM

        In your effort to show everyone you know the rules you are being far too literal. What’s being said here is not that the rules will require an ejection but that common sense will tell you there’s absolutely no way Cain hits holiday without being thrown out. At this point it would be obvious that it was intentional and unless the umpire is the type that believes in payback plunking, Cain would be gone.

      • blacksables - Oct 17, 2012 at 8:40 AM

        “A plunk will result in an automatic ejection.”

        That’s exactly what was said. That is exactly wrong.

        There is no literal intepretation to this.

  4. nickmiller63 - Oct 16, 2012 at 7:50 PM

    On the other hand, if you take Cain seriously and don’t go out of your way to infer intent, then you end up with a pitcher saying he’s not going to “plunk” Holliday, he’s simply going to pitch his game. This is the way I read it. I think it’s the way it should be read.

  5. okwhitefalcon - Oct 16, 2012 at 7:53 PM

    I’m a Cardinal fan a have no problem with a plunking.

    It would have been much better to just do it it last night but if they feel the need moving forward, fine.

    Anything below the waist and Holliday walks to first and it’s cool, baseball policing itself in a proper fashion.

  6. rap49er - Oct 16, 2012 at 7:53 PM

    Let him think you’re going to hit him, just never do it. Works berthed than actually hitting him.

    • gusto181 - Oct 17, 2012 at 12:20 AM

      100% agree. If you throw inside on him and if for even a split second it makes him flinch on a strike call or forcing a late swing, it’s worth it. But then absolutely throw one into his back first Cards vs Giants game of next year.

  7. randygnyc - Oct 16, 2012 at 8:07 PM

    If Cain throws at-hits Holliday he’ll be ejected immediately AND suspneded (perhaps missing his only world series start). He won’t have any defense now. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT and play ball. If you want to hit him, just do it and deny it was on purpose. Now, it’s not an option, unless he’s an idiot.

    • paperlions - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:46 PM

      It may not be a popular opinion…but this is probably correct. When there is history, intent can be inferred and a pitcher ejected without warning. For the Giants, it isn’t worth the risk to hit Holliday now….especially with a starter who could easily get a 5 game suspension to be served immediately during the playoffs.

  8. coachglove - Oct 16, 2012 at 8:09 PM

    “Now I’m in your head.” – Matt Cain

    • dondada10 - Oct 16, 2012 at 8:20 PM

      Exactly. And then plunk him in the Spring.

    • mrwillie - Oct 16, 2012 at 8:22 PM

      Exactly

      • blacksables - Oct 17, 2012 at 8:11 AM

        Holliday was a Divison I Tight End and a big school.

        He’s been hit before.

  9. ghostofjimlindeman - Oct 16, 2012 at 8:27 PM

    Soap opera for dudes… Since he announced he might do it now he’s gonna get tossed if he does do it. Not smart. Hit em, get bounced advantage Cards fine with me. Oh wait then it will somehow be the Cardinals fault that dough boy was stupid enough to throw at Holliday in a playoff game over a weak retaliation.

  10. ghostofjimlindeman - Oct 16, 2012 at 8:31 PM

    Relax, Mr. Holliday. If they assassinate you, all of Cardinal Nation goes to war. Pray they’re that stupid. Pray we’re that lucky.

    • js20011041 - Oct 16, 2012 at 8:41 PM

      Boy, that escalated quickly.

      • mrwillie - Oct 16, 2012 at 8:45 PM

        Might want to lay low for a while.

  11. ghostofjimlindeman - Oct 16, 2012 at 8:35 PM

    I’m aware I have too much time on my hands..

  12. smcgaels1997 - Oct 16, 2012 at 8:36 PM

    He said he plans to pitch inside..of one gets away it does, he doesn’t imply he’s doing it…my goodness everyone looks for whatever they want…how about this..I don’t know maybe Holliday should have slid the normal way not launch over the bag..look in the mirror cards fans

    • gostlcards5 - Oct 17, 2012 at 3:01 PM

      Please see key points stated above (and in previous posts):

      – Most of us (Cards fans), the ones with any sense, anyway, AGREE that the slide was a terrible play. Even Holliday agreed with this, and I think it affected his play later in the game.
      – The Cards fans that I have read in this post HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PLUNKING HOLLIDAY.
      – As I stated above, DON’T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT “ONE GETTING AWAY”. Just plunk him or pitch your game, because when you say it, INTENT IS ALREADY ESTABLISHED. The other problem I didn’t mention is now, if he hits him UNINTENTIONALLY….INTENT IS ALREADY ESTABLISHED!

  13. smcgaels1997 - Oct 16, 2012 at 8:37 PM

    A weak retaliation? Dough boy? Called perfect game winner and your jackass Holliday coulda ended a career but wait unless it was your boy Cozart you’d be screaming murder

  14. ghostofjimlindeman - Oct 16, 2012 at 8:43 PM

    I was gonna bash him but then looked up his second half stats 99IP 75K 3.00 ERA with a 1.14 Whip and a 238 BAA yea he’s good. Either he get’s himself tossed over a stupid plunk or he pitches like his lifetime record at Bush suggests 16 IP, 22 Hits, 15 Runs, 3 HR and 8 Walks with 8.27 ERA and a 1.84 Whip. I’ll take either outcome. Guy hasn’t pitched well at Bush but I’d still rather not face him.

    • Marty - Oct 16, 2012 at 11:51 PM

      You just found out Cain is good?

      • ghostofjimlindeman - Oct 17, 2012 at 6:03 AM

        No but I was curious if he was starting to fade in second half, guess not.

  15. ghostofjimlindeman - Oct 16, 2012 at 8:47 PM

    Career ending let’s not get over dramatic here please. Evey second basemen has to deal with the turn, part of playing the position. You can argue with Holiday’s poor sliding skills, but hard for me to believe he was gunning for that power house player that is Marco Scutaro to carry us over the top.

  16. stex52 - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:14 PM

    Take him at his word. The aces always have the ability to pitch inside. You have to if you are going to be a really good pitcher. I think he means exactly that.

  17. Marty - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:21 PM

    Cain is just getting into Holliday’s simple head. You saw how he reacted to the pressure last night.

  18. paperlions - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:48 PM

    Do people really think the mack truck that is Matt Holliday is worried about getting hit by a pitch?

  19. xmatt0926x - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:48 PM

    “Plunk that mutha****er” – Ol’ School Hamels

    • kevinleaptrot - Oct 17, 2012 at 1:06 PM

      “Fake Tough” Hamels.

      • gostlcards5 - Oct 17, 2012 at 3:03 PM

        “Fake Tough Old School” Hamels… :D

  20. fantasymoney - Oct 16, 2012 at 10:41 PM

    This is baseball. An eye for an eye. Dust off the dirt and hustle down to first base. Hopefully the MLB doesn’t have staff monitoring twitter for random quotes coming out of the Bay area…just in case Cain does bust Holliday with a chest hair burner.

  21. metalhead65 - Oct 17, 2012 at 1:16 AM

    this is just what the cards want,they take out the giants second baseman and now if the giants pitch inside or hit a card they lose that pitcher. according to them you are not suppose to inside against them anyway and if you hit one of them it always intentional. yea no matter what the situation it is always on purpose and then they whine and cry but if they hit one of your guys it was a accident and just part of the game.

    • SOBEIT - Oct 17, 2012 at 3:23 PM

      As a strategy, I can’t see Cain going after Holliday with any intentional hit because….

      1) if he hits Holliday, then warnings are issued and that eliminates Cain’s strategy to pitch Holliday inside most of the game.
      2) once warnings are issued, then “if one gets away, it gets away” will get Cain kicked out of the game
      3) no way Cain will do anything that will take him out of the game and hurt the teams chances. Cain needs to go deep into the 6th so that Bochy can use the bullpen appropriately.
      4) Cain getting kicked out or leaving the game early might force Bochy to use Lincecum in long relief rather than the start in game 4 or 5
      5) and Bochy already said there will be no retaliation called by him or the pitchers.
      6) Matheny is a class act and was a Giant for a short time and left a positive impression with the organization to not consider the Holliday event an issue of “taking Scutaro out”!

      So the Giants will not give the umps any reason to think an inside pitch that gets away is anything but an inside pitch that got away…

      Shoot, the Giants never retaliated against the Marlins for Buster getting nailed and lost for a season, why would they start now!

  22. danospleasanton - Oct 17, 2012 at 3:26 AM

    Bruce B should only give the OK if the game is a blow out. Preferably after the 7-8 inning when Matt H bats. It would have to be someone like Mota or Mijares. Giants can’t run the risk of losing Cain for any time. In this case, I see the ribs or back as the target at 90 mph+.

  23. opshuns - Oct 17, 2012 at 3:57 AM

    Mr. Silva, don’t start something that could get people hurt!

    When the reporter was trying to LEAD him into plunking Holliday story, Matt stated (as close as I can remember) was that SOME batters have to be pitched inside in order to get them out…

    Matt Cain is a very classy face of an Giants organization. Cain might buzz him, but he won’t hit him. Can’t be using any suspensions right now….

  24. SOBEIT - Oct 17, 2012 at 8:32 AM

    I can’t believe the over reaction. Read his statement slowly and carefully. Nowhere does it say he is going after Holiday. Cain is saying he is not going to change his strategy to pitch inside. That is a key part of his game…in and out of corners with the fastball. Cain hits batters regularly because he goes inside consistently “as a part of his game to get the batter out”! But when you pitch inside regularly, one gets away. I think he is letting the umps know just as much as Holiday. But nowhere does Cain say he is making a statement with a intentional hit.

    • gostlcards5 - Oct 17, 2012 at 3:10 PM

      Again, my only problem is if you say anything about it, especially the way it is portrayed here, you establish intent for the umpire, whether you hit him intentionally or not.

      As far as the “overreaction”, is that any different than the other overreactions mentioned here (and in other posts), such as:
      – Holliday takes people out regularly, using the Starlin Castro slide as a justifier (wow…still can’t believe that one, so to me today…Rick Chandler = dumbass)
      – Holliday intentionally speared Scutaro in an attempt to end his career (REALLY?)
      – The Cardinals planned this entire thing. Have Holliday take Scutaro completely out of the game, so that later, when one of the pitchers retaliate, they’ll be suspended!!! (Again, REALLY? Mike Matheny is a class dude, has always been a class dude, who was a highly respected player that played for the Cardinals AND the Giants. Get real. How can people be this f*cking retarded?)

      • gostlcards5 - Oct 17, 2012 at 3:11 PM

        Sorry, SOBE, the parenthetic comments are not directed at you…I just am tired of all of the overreaction….ugh, it makes my head hurt.

  25. cleekk - Oct 17, 2012 at 9:55 AM

    All of the comments on here seem to indicate the Giants are run by a bunch of morons that need advice on how to retaliate. I wonder if they are spending their strategy time figuring out how to win the series, or how best to retaliate.

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