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UPDATE: Hal McCrae looks at Matt Holliday’s slide and laughs

Oct 16, 2012, 8:50 AM EDT

You think the Matt Holliday slide was bad last night? Ha!  This morning Buster Olney tweeted a link to a video clip from the 1972 World Series that makes Holliday’s takeout of Marco Scutaro look like the two of them were drinking tea and eating crustless cucumber sandwiches at a doiley-covered table on some sun-splashed glade.

Check out Joe Morgan UPDATE: Check out Hal McCrae* taking out second baseman Dick Green on the second slide on this video:

How that didn’t lead to a rumble I have no idea.

*I had this as a Joe Morgan slide all day, based on the description of the video on YouTube and the quality of the video being such that, sure, it coulda been Joe Morgan.  I’m informed, however, that Morgan was never forced out at second in that World Series. And upon further inspection, you can sorta make out a number one on the back of the guy’s jersey as he approaches the base. Hal McCrae wore 11 for the Reds, and it would appear that that’s who we’re seeing in the video.

UPDATE:  McCrae’s in the 1977 ALCS was even better/worse.

  1. proudlycanadian - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:02 AM

    When I clicked on the video, I got the following message: “This video is temporarily unavailable.”

    • proudlycanadian - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:35 AM

      Why the thumbs down? For some unknown reason, I can’t access the video.

      • darthicarus - Oct 16, 2012 at 11:22 AM

        Americans are leery of Canadians, nothing personal.

      • Old Gator - Oct 16, 2012 at 12:06 PM

        That’s because they know most of their pastrami is outclassed by Canadian smoked meat.

  2. klbader - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:04 AM

    Joe Morgan may have been a joke in the broadcast booth, but he was no joke on the diamond.

  3. hisgirlgotburrelled - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:07 AM

    “Check out Joe Morgan taking out second baseman Dick Green on the second slide on this video”

    That was no slide! That was a hip-check.

  4. stex52 - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:07 AM

    It’s certainly how things used to be done. But I don’t think it was ever actually legal.

  5. skerney - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:13 AM

    It used to be, short of throwing a punch, everything was legal at second base. Twenty years of listening to Duane Kuiper has given me an appreciation of what guy’s like Morgan had to go through. I agree with Jayson Stark, Holliday’s slide was a hardnose play that falls slightly on the cheap/ illegal side.

    • koufaxmitzvah - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:21 AM

      Twenty years of listening to Duane Kuiper would have led me to self-immolation.

      • skerney - Oct 16, 2012 at 1:56 PM

        Ned Coletti handles the self immolation around the NL West.

      • temporarilyexiled - Oct 16, 2012 at 2:56 PM

        Twenty seconds of you leads me to enjoy my life minus those twenty seconds all the more.

        Vin Scully is great. It’s amazing that he’s been broadcasting ten years longer than I’ve been alive.

        Duane Kuiper (and his brothers) are also great. No need for you to troll on this topic.

        Looking forward to 2013.

      • koufaxmitzvah - Oct 16, 2012 at 3:44 PM

        Poor, Temper. Realize that I actually stayed on the topic of OP’s sentiments. Whether you like the joke or not really doesn’t matter to me.

        Uh-oh…. Another 20 seconds for you to regret.

        I guess it sucks to be you.

  6. darthicarus - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:23 AM

    In defense of Morgan the infield did still have the football yard lines painted on so I understand his confusion.

    • darthicarus - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:25 AM

      Also, Hal McRae wasn’t impressed either:

      • ezthinking - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:31 AM

        That’s the slide I was looking for last night when I found Morgan’s and posted it. It’s awesome how McRae is raising his hand and pointing at Randolph like there was something he did wrong. Classic.

      • gammagammahey - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:52 AM

        McRae is probably pointing at the fact that the ball (and glove) came loose and arguing that Randolph never had control. If I recall correctly, this slide in particular was what led to the rule change that they called “the Hal McRae rule” for a while.

      • mkd - Oct 16, 2012 at 10:09 AM

        I wish that ump hadn’t gone into any more theatrics with his call. McRae has just plowed through Randolph and knocked him back what? 25 feet? And the ump just calmly raises one arm…out.

      • Dan McCloskey - Oct 16, 2012 at 11:45 AM

        Even if McRae is pointing to the fact Randolph dropped the ball, he’s 25 feet away from the base, and he chooses to argue that Randolph didn’t maintain possession rather than, say, try to get back to the base.

  7. paulhargis53 - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:25 AM

    It’s just the pussified sports world we live in today. Hardnosed baseball doesn’t exist anymore. So, when a player does this he’s “dirty”. Ugh! You can’t even brush back batters anymore.

    Big $ has really taken something away from today’s sports. I know I sound like a “back in my day” guy, but its true. Making the playoffs/world series actually meant extra cash to those guys. I think it meant more to them too. How can a guy making milllions a year be upset about losing a game?

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:36 AM

      How can a guy making milllions a year be upset about losing a game?

      Because they’ve spent their entire lives trying to get to this point, so winning in the playoffs probably means more to them than money? As a kid, didn’t you have something you wanted more than anything in the world? And if you worked really hard it, only to lose it at the last moments, wouldn’t you be upset?

      • Old Gator - Oct 16, 2012 at 12:09 PM

        Sure. As a kid, I wanted to get laid more than anything in the world. Now I can look back over my long life and appreciate how much trouble that caused once I got what I wanted. Now these here baseball guys, for all their money, they can’t even eat fried chicken in bed with the two cute chicks they picked up last night without catching all kinds of shit for it.

    • bcopus - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:39 AM

      You, sir! I challenge you to a duel. Do you prefer swords or pistols? Do you have a second available? We hardnosed men’s men know how to settle things the right way, damn these hippies and their “judicial system”.

    • nolanwiffle - Oct 16, 2012 at 10:12 AM

      I’m not prepared to call it “pussified” for a couple of reasons. First, that’s an idiotic term for a grown man to use. Second, I would not set foot on an NFL field or an NHL hockey rink. I’d even be a little hesitant to step into a major league batter’s box.

      Sure I’m somewhat middle-aged, but the fact remains that these are men’s games played by very tough men.

    • cur68 - Oct 16, 2012 at 12:34 PM

      Anyone that says “pussification” has never seen a pro athlete in the post season at the orthopedic surgeon’s office. Its quite a sight. These “pussys” are covered in scars. Scars at damn near every major joint. Often they are surgical scars. But not all. I asked a football player I met what the dramatic looking dimple in his calf was about. Apparently that’s where the bone came through and the resulting scar in the muscle had adhered to the skin causing a dimple.

      Their xrays? Shit. Xrays of knees, hips, shoulders, wrists, ankles, necks even: I’ve met old people with better looking joints than some of these “pussys” in their 30’s. More than a few were female athletes. One in particular stuck with me: she was a 30 year old figure skater. Her left knee xray showed nothing but bone on bone with the tibial plateau nearly gone. Needed the kind of knee replacement only seen on elderly people.

      Playing pro sports is damn hard on the body. Hard even without a 240 lb mastodon named Matt Holiday wiping you out. When your body looks like Dr. Frankenstein was modifying you with the spare parts from a Volvo THEN you got the chops to call these people “pussys”. Otherwise STFU.

  8. willclarkgameface - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:27 AM

    That was a football move.

    And for Mr. Holiday on Wednesday night? Sweet on-field justice awaits…

    • greymares - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:57 AM

      I doubt there will be any on field justice, no “BALLS” in todays game. hell in the 50’s/60’s we played like that in little league.

  9. stlouis1baseball - Oct 16, 2012 at 9:28 AM

    I anxiously await the posts of both Sucker and Metalhead. Your take? Enlighten me fellows.

    • wlschneider09 - Oct 16, 2012 at 10:09 AM

      If we haven’t heard from Metalhead on the Dusty Baker threads I doubt he’s gonna come out for this one.

      • Marty McKee - Oct 16, 2012 at 4:09 PM

        I hope you guys don’t think Metalhead represents all or even the typical Reds fan.

  10. missthemexpos - Oct 16, 2012 at 10:01 AM

    I am pretty sure that if Ty Cobb was still around, he would be laughing even more than Joe Morgan.

    • thomas2727 - Oct 16, 2012 at 10:44 AM

      I’ll bet Ty Cobb was not laughing when Honus Wagner busted him in the mouth with his glove to a avenge a previous hard slide.

  11. The Dangerous Mabry - Oct 16, 2012 at 10:06 AM

    I just want to know why that’s illegal at second base, but encouraged at home plate.

    • Kevin S. - Oct 16, 2012 at 11:14 AM

      Because catchers build a fortress around home plate, requiring runners to truck them if they want to score. Second base is generally open, and such slides are not about safely reaching the base.

      • The Dangerous Mabry - Oct 16, 2012 at 11:33 AM

        Yet if the catcher is in front of the plate, he’s still fair game, and if the shortstop is blocking second base (say, on a steal attempt) you can’t take him out. I’m not arguing in favor of injuring people around second base, mind you, I’m just looking for consistency.

    • ksrippstein - Oct 16, 2012 at 11:22 AM

      Because you don’t have to stay on the base at Home. At second, you can slide as hard as you freakin’ want – but you have to be able to reach the base at the end of the slide. This ensures the runner is actually trying to be safe at the bag and not just trying to break an opponent’s hip. At home, you never have to stay on the base.

      • The Dangerous Mabry - Oct 16, 2012 at 11:32 AM

        By that logic, crushing the first baseman is totally acceptable as well?

    • vallewho - Oct 16, 2012 at 12:08 PM

      It’s all good in my book. the only time I recall outrage was when pretty-boy Posey got taken out. Ohhh the outrage….

  12. Lukehart80 - Oct 16, 2012 at 10:28 AM

    In a way, Holidays’ slide seems worse to me than Morgan’s.

    Morgan went into the second baseman’s body, meaning he stood a good chance of knocking the wind out of him and/or bruising a couple ribs, whereas Holiday’s slide into the second baseman’s legs could easily have blown his knee out, a much more serious injury.

    • nolanwiffle - Oct 16, 2012 at 10:33 AM

      Check out the two slides here. In the first one, Johnny Bench (I believe) sweeps the legs and there appears to be little damage done. Joe Morgan nearly flips the dude on his head.

  13. paperlions - Oct 16, 2012 at 11:15 AM

    So….doesn’t this make Holliday “old school”? Isn’t being old school supposed be an unquestionably good thing?


  14. richwizl - Oct 16, 2012 at 11:15 AM

    Holidays hit on Scutaro was at a far greater rate of speed than Morgan’s and he is a much bigger man. Morgan clearly slowed up when he turned into Dick Green to hinder his throw.

    • stlouis1baseball - Oct 16, 2012 at 1:15 PM

      Both takeouts were horshit “slides” Rich. But you obviously aren’t viewing this unbiasedly.
      Joe was damn near sprinting when he hit him. Holliday was in the damn air as a result of him sliding too late. To put it more clearly…Joe was still standing. But again…both are wrong. Both are boneheaded.
      I just don’t think Holliday is a dirty player. I never have thought this. I have never heard anyone say this. I just think he is a lumbering oaf.

  15. kevinleaptrot - Oct 16, 2012 at 11:39 AM

    Morgan, 2 minutes for roughing.

  16. aceshigh11 - Oct 16, 2012 at 11:42 AM

    That’s an open-handed slap, son!

  17. hojo20 - Oct 16, 2012 at 11:51 AM

    Ahhhh, baseball the way it was meant to be played. Hard.

    • sailcat54 - Oct 16, 2012 at 12:26 PM

      Nobody goes to the park to see questionable plays that lead to injuries. This play was stupid and reckless. Holliday should know better.

      • koufaxmitzvah - Oct 16, 2012 at 12:38 PM

        It’s the playoffs. The play was instrumental in disallowing a second out. Based on this perspective, it’s a smart baseball play.

        In 1978, Reggie Jackson stuck his arm out and deflected Bill Russell’s throw to 1st base in order to disrupt a double play. No one got hurt, but I see that as a dirtier play than Holliday’s slide.

        The lone concern is be for Scutaro’s health, and Holliday was man enough to ask about him.

  18. ezwriter69 - Oct 16, 2012 at 12:05 PM

    The A’s, without Reggie Jackson who had a broken leg, beat the vaunted Big Red Machine. Then they beat the Mets with Matlack, Seaver and Koosman. Then they beat the Dodgers with Cey, Lopes, Russell et al. They dominated baseball, including the all hitting, no pitching Big Red Machine, with one of the greatest complete pitching staffs ever.
    Morgan and the Big Red Machine never won a title until after Charlie Finley sold off the A’s assets one at a time. The A’s, not the Reds, were the best team of the era… marketing and publicity BS notwithstanding. Great pitching and defense beats great hitting, and the A’s were one of the best pitching teams, one of the best teams, ever… better than the Reds, and they proved it where it matters, on the field.

  19. hojo20 - Oct 16, 2012 at 1:18 PM

    Best takeout slide of all time:

  20. Loose Changeup - Oct 16, 2012 at 3:05 PM

    I used to play SS/2B in high school. Once, we played against a military school that played rough like this, and on my first double play attempt, I got cleats right in my gut. To my surprise, the ump had no problem with it. The other team got even more brazen, they nearly knocked our catcher out of the game on a play at the plate where the runner didn’t even attempt a slide.

    A couple of innings later, there was another double play ball. I cover second, and guy isn’t really sliding so much as putting his shoulder down to give me a linebacker hit. So, me being off balance trying to get out of the runners way, I accidentally threw the ball right into his cheek. My first baseman got into it when the other runner tried to come over and fight me, their coach got thrown out trying to argue that I should be thrown out and the team forfeit even though they were up by a ton of runs.

    That was probably my best play by WPA ever.

    • mortymcfearson - Oct 16, 2012 at 5:02 PM

      Bet he slid next time.

    • stlouis1baseball - Oct 16, 2012 at 6:09 PM

      Although I have no idea what “WPA” means…great post Changeup. I love stories like that.
      Thanks for sharing.

      • Loose Changeup - Oct 17, 2012 at 7:35 PM

        Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. WPA = Win Probability Added, which was near zero for us at the beginning of the play.

  21. paulhargis53 - Oct 16, 2012 at 4:21 PM

    I didn’t call the players pussified, I called the GAME pussified. Reading comprehension, look into it.

    • cur68 - Oct 17, 2012 at 2:09 AM

      Fine. How can any game that leave such injuries be “pussified”? Even without being wiped out by another player I’ve seen the results of bone breaks and long term joint damage just from playing normally. Factual argument, look into it.

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