I didn’t say that batters have zero control over RBI. I said that there are aspects of RBI over which the batter has zero control. Big difference.

Yes, the same thing is true of scoring runs. There are aspects of scoring runs over which a batter/base runner has zero control. But that control is not zero.

The gray area is where one tries to understand how much of the effort of RBI is done by the individual batter versus everybody else batting ahead of him, and how much of the run scoring is done by the individual batter/base runner versus everybody else batting behind him. And, of course, how do those two things compare?

Here is something your eyes have failed to witness: Mike Trout scoring from first base on a single. Or Mike Trout scoring from second base ON AN INFIELD SINGLE. Or Mike Trout leading the majors in stolen bases with 49, greatly easing the demand on batters behind him to bring him in to score. All of those things are true. Trout’s performance throughout the season carried a very large amount of the payload necessary to deliver him eventually across the plate. His own slugging. His own base running. Conversely, a very large amount of the payload for Cabrera’s RBI’s (or anyone’s for that matter) are delivered by many other batters doing the work of getting on base, advancing runners already on base, advancing themselves on base, and crossing the plate safely after a timely Cabrera at-bat.

How are those large percentages identified and compared? With pencils and paper. It’s far beyond anybody’s eyeballs.

Trout also doesn’t score that many runs without the guys hitting behind him. He gets left on base and doesn’t score without help. Cabrera knocks in the runs that win the games. Plan ole stupid to discount RBI’s.

Also, Cabrera still managed to lead the league in RBI’s with idiots like Raburn and other .200 hitters batting 2nd a lot this year.

Here is your GG ‘stud at work”: http://i.imgur.com/hQLI1.gif

And here he is again: http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/687810/JonesError.gif.opt_medium.gif

And again:http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1258973/adamgum_medium.gif

As for Cabrera, no he did NOT hit his team into the World Series. He hit his team into first place in the weakest division in MLB while the White Sox tanked. And that is when MVP consideration stops. Once in the playoffs, Cabrera finished with merely the 26th best batting average, the 16th best On Base Percentage, and the 18th best Slugging Percentage. He did drive in 8 runs during the playoffs, but only 1 of those was against the A’s and 4 of those came against a Yankees teams that folded altogether.

As for the Triple Crown, if you do some looking around you will find that more and more, over the recent years, the winning vote has gone to the player with the highest WAR. The voters are trending in my direction. The Triple Crown includes RBI’s, which are a mere counting stat that has as much, if not more, to do with things that the batter has zero control over – such as who gets on base in front of him, and when. What do think, for example, Cabrera would have recorded for RBI’s in 2012 had he hit in the leadoff slot for the LA Angels? Do you still think he would have led the AL??

Mike Trout stepped onto the field on April 28th, with the team playing .300 ball up to that point. With Trout present in the lineup, that same team then played .585 ball the balance of the season. The Angels ended up winning more games in the toughest division in all of baseball, than did the Cabrera and the Tigers while playing in one of the weakest. It “don’t get much more valuable than that.”

And, using your logic, Trout slumped in the final month, dropping 10 points off his BA and handing one leg of the Triple Crown to Cabrera. And during that slump the Angels, perhaps the most feared playoff team for 2012, got nosed out of a playoff slot altogether. Therefore, again using your logic, Trout is the beast.

And, while Cabrera tanked in the playoffs (along with Fielder and Verlander, so it’s not as if Cabrera was THE reason for failure), he still hit .265 for the post-season. But consider that the teams Cabrera faced were the A’s, the Yankees and then the Giants. In 2012 Trout batted against each of those teams, respectively, .283, .407 and .538.

P.S. – Yes, WAR does take into account baseball eras, stadium differences, etc. Maybe you might consider purchasing the MLB package next season so that you can start watching Trout play every day and learn a thing or two about the value of devastating speed on the base paths, speed and athleticism in the outfield, hitting power form the lead off spot, all to go along with an extremely high batting average and slugging percentage and On Base Percentage. Oh, and, you know, scoring runs, which is, of course, the whole point of the game.

I don’t think line up protection exists, but apparently you do. Remind yourself that Prince Fielder batted behind Cabrera all year. He hit 30/108/313 in the categories Cabrera won the triple crown and 313/412/538 in the new traditional slash categories. And you are saying that trout, with erick aybar behind him was better protection?

I don’t know why Phillips fans are so outraged because another player actually had a better defensive year than Phillips. You still have an amazing second baseman; it’s just that he didn’t win the Gold Glove this year.

I’m not saying Phillips isn’t a stud as well, but Barney rightfully won this award. He simply had a better year, defensively, than Phillips.

“NO OTHER 2ND BASEMAN IN BASEBALL WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE VICINITY OF THE PLAY”

You might want to do some more research on actual defensive metrics instead of taking the word of some overhyped ESPN reporter. The league average of range factor (per 9 innings) in the NL was 4.77 for 2B. Phillips’ was a pedestrian 4.55, while Barney’s was an outstanding 5.16. That means Barney would get to one more ball than Phillips could every 2 games.

Trout played on a much better hitting team and had just as good of pitching staff, if not better, as the Tigers Cabrera took a team with 5 regulars batting over .250 to the World Series. He tanked and the team died, don’t get much more valuable than that.

You also can’t compare FOURTEEN players stats with Yaz’s. You seem to forget the effect of stadium changes, mound changes, expansion, steroids, and numerous other thiings.

You can keep all of your little new wave stats. Most of us don’t are how many hits someguy hit on Tuesdays while wearing gray underwear after eating a cheese pizza (TGC). We can tell who can play or not by looking at em.

Signed,
A Cardinals fan who appreciates good baseball even when played by someone NOT on my favorite team

And yet, managers and coaches are not allowed to vote for their own players in the GG. So the one group of players that they DO know about, they cannot vote for. And the other group of players that they CAN vote for, they don’t know shit about.

But baseball teams are not completely stupid. They do have all that personnel who are paid to know about every other player. And when those people were asked for THEIR vote, the results are The Sporting News All-Star team. Google that and compare. You will learn that, yeah, when it comes to things like this managers and coaches don’t know shit.

Well Said. Phillips is the best 2nd Baseman in Baseball next to Cano.

@crackersnaps

Adam Jones is a stud in CF. Well deserved GG. But to suggest that the Triple Crown is a fluke or meaningless, is Beyond Asinine!! If it was such an easy thing to do explain Y not since 1967… And technically it wasn’t done then because even Yaz was tied in a category. Cabrera led in all 3 ALONE. He hit his team to the World Series! They got swept but LA didn’t sniff the post-season!

Incidentally, Phillips is second in RZR behind Mark Ellis, and 6th in UZR. The latter coincides more with the limited number of outs he seems to make compared to other second basemen. Despite apparently being able to make all those plays that other second basemen can’t.

Nerds find this GG list an abomination. As usual.