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The Marlins are not a baseball team. They’re a kleptocracy

Nov 14, 2012, 7:24 AM EDT

Jeffrey Loria

Perhaps it’s possible to defend last night’s mega Blue Jays-Marlins trade on purely baseball merits. To say that the Marlins weren’t going to contend with Reyes, Buehrle, Johnson and the rest and that they needed to blow things up. To say that the return they’re realizing from Toronto was actually pretty good and can form the basis of the Next Contending Marlins Team if Miami plays its cards right.  Indeed, I’m sure a cogent argument to such effect could be made if it hasn’t been made already.

Such a position, however, requires that one give the Marlins’ brain trust the benefit of the doubt and to assume that they have any interest at all in creating the Next Contending Marlins Team.  Because absolutely nothing in owner Jeff Loria’s history suggests that he gives a tinker’s damn about winning baseball games, making fans happy and developing Miami as a vibrant market for Major League Baseball.

Quite the opposite, actually. Here are some random Jeff Loria and Marlins facts which, taken together, aren’t terribly random:

  • After purchasing the Montreal Expos in the 1990s, he immediately claimed that, without a new stadium, the team that was much beloved and supported by its fans and once was near the top of the National League in annual attendance could not compete without a new stadium. When public officials balked, he cut payroll and denigrated the City of Montreal as a baseball market.
  • In 2000, unsatisfied with rights fees offered by English-speaking TV and radio broadcasters in Montreal, Loria allowed the Expos to play with no television or English radio broadcasts, preventing thousands of Expos fans from actually seeing or hearing Expos games.
  • In selling the Expos, he received a sweetheart deal and no-interest loans from Major League Baseball which allowed him to buy the Marlins put the Expos into league receivership. When he left Montreal, he moved the Expos’ entire front office staff, on-field staff, office equipment and computer equipment to Florida, leaving new Expos general manager Omar Minaya with virtually no resources with which to field a competitive team.
  • The atrophied remains of the Expos then served as an easy target for contraction threats by Major League Baseball designed to create leverage in labor negotiations with the MLBPA and had the effect of alienating all but the most die-hard Montreal baseball fans. As a result of both Loria’s acts as Expos manager and his complicity in the league’s use of the Expos as an example and bargaining chip, Montreal was utterly destroyed as a viable baseball market.
  • Loria took over the Marlins in 2002.  Between 2002 and 2010, the Marlins got around $300 million in revenue sharing and banked at least $154 million of it in pure profit.
  • Two years ago, the Marlins were forced into an agreement with Major League Baseball and the player’s union to stop violating Article XXIV(B)(5)(a) of the Basic Agreement which requires revenue sharing money to be used to improve your team instead of lining ownership’s pockets.
  • In addition to team profits and the substantial appreciation of the franchise since he purchased it, Jeffrey Loria pays himself around $10 million a year in “administration fees.” As a result of last night’s trade, he is now paid nearly twice the salary of the Marlins’ highest-paid player.
  • The ballpark which the Marlins convinced Miami to build them was paid for by the public against its will, was shady all around, led to public outrage which cost politicians their jobs and wound up costing far moredrawing far fewer fans than the team promised taxpayers it would and has led to virtually zero development of the surrounding area, contrary to the promises of Loria and his friends.
  • A year ago Friday, David Samson talked big about the Marlins “rising payroll, higher revenues” and the team’s new way of doing things, a plan that lasted until roughly July.
  • David Samson last March to a group of Miami business leaders:  “I don’t have to hold back now that the stadium is built – not that I ever have …” He called people who run for office “not the cream of the intellectual crop,” adding about the entire population, “That’s not to say we’re not the smartest people in Miami. My guess is, if you’re in this room, we’re immediately in the top 1%.”

The Marlins are not a baseball team. They’re a kleptocracy. Jeff Loria and his cohorts are cynical liars who care nothing about baseball beyond the cash it allows them to extract from gullible fans, corrupt politicians, unwitting taxpayers and a complicit league office, all of which they have either explicitly called stupid or clearly assume to be based on their actions.

They may continue to play baseball games in Miami, but baseball is merely the MacGuffin which drives the plot for the shysters in this ownership group and they will lie to anyone about anything in order to further it.  In so doing, they are well on their way to destroying yet another market which should, by all rights, be fantastic for baseball.

At this point, they should be allowed to do so. People should stop showing up. Marlins fans, no matter how much they love their team, should shift their allegiances to one which does not hold them in contempt.  Jeff Loria and Major League Baseball should be forced to sleep in the bed they made for themselves and suffer the consequences of their greed and cynicism. The new ballpark may make allowing Miami go the way of Montreal a tall order, but perhaps the franchise can at least wither on the vine long enough to make it more appealing for Loria to get out of the baseball business and find some other investment with which he can fleece the unsuspecting.

In the meantime, anyone who decides to stick with the Marlins while this crowd is in charge deserves whatever they get from this abusive, exploitative relationship.

101 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. surly1n1nd1anapol1s - Nov 14, 2012 at 7:43 AM

    I’m no fan of the Marlins. But on this same blog the argument was made that Miami got value here. What say you on the merits of the trade Craig?

    • proudlycanadian - Nov 14, 2012 at 7:53 AM

      Both arguments are correct. The Marlins are a kleptocracy and the young players they received in the trade all have a decent upside.

      AA is from Montreal and grew up as an Expos fan. He started out in baseball with the Expos, but after Loria, he took a job with the Jays. In this trade, the revenge of the Expos was served cold.

      • proudlycanadian - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:18 AM

        Besides the revenge of the Expos theme, there is another revenge theme percolating in Toronto. Some fans and commentators are essentially saying FU to John Farrell who has to be having second thoughts about defecting to Boston.

  2. 12strikes - Nov 14, 2012 at 7:44 AM

    HOLY COW Craig… Do you fell better?
    Do you need a cigarette after that rant?

    BTW… Your totally right.

    BTW(2)… Jeff Loria is the biggest tool in all of sports ownership.

    • paperlions - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:45 AM

      …and that is saying something, because that tool box is huge and full.

      • historiophiliac - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:52 AM

        Frank McCourt says: Screw you, I still have a parking lot interest as my in. I will return!

      • paperlions - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:48 AM

        Screw drivers are tools, sure.

    • spewak1 - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:49 AM

      As for your second BTW, I give you the Maloofs! The owners of the sacramento kings nba franchise are Loria wannabees!

  3. surly1n1nd1anapol1s - Nov 14, 2012 at 7:49 AM

    Doesn’t this make the Jays old and expensive?

    • Matt Vee - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:08 AM

      It makes the Jays a big market, win now team that has enough depth in the farm to shore up any holes due to injuries and underperformance.

  4. gloccamorra - Nov 14, 2012 at 7:53 AM

    It actually IS a good trade for a rebuilding club, but with one year done in a new ballpark, the team should already have been rebuilt. The trade simply corrects, if that’s the right word, the poor free agent haul from last off-season that was meant to snooker people into thinking the team would be competitive. You just can’t look at Marlins trades/moves from a strictly baseball standpoint – everything has to be filtered through the gauze of ownership history. What that history should tell you is that Bud Selig’s final act as Commissioner should be to get Jeffrey Loria out of baseball.

  5. drewsylvania - Nov 14, 2012 at 7:58 AM

    Where’s Bud?

    • Old Gator - Nov 14, 2012 at 11:08 AM

      Surely you jest.

      AAnd stop calling me Shirley.

  6. drewsylvania - Nov 14, 2012 at 7:59 AM

    Any Marlins fans ever comment here?

    • Old Gator - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:08 AM

      Oh, once in awhile….

      • heyblueyoustink - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:47 AM

        Shortest Gator comment, ever.

        Condolances my man, sounds like the folks in Florida who genuinely support the Marlins need the assistance of the Seven Samurai, or Chuck Norris or someone, to get the ruling despot Loria exiled to Malta.

      • Old Gator - Nov 14, 2012 at 11:09 AM

        I don’t want your pity.

        However, feel free to send money.

      • heyblueyoustink - Nov 14, 2012 at 11:20 AM

        Not so much pity as ” I can’t imagine how angry I would be if the Phils did something like this.”

        As far as the cash goes, i’m officially calling off all handouts until I see what they do with the tax cuts due to expire at the end of the year. No one gets a nickel, i’m going half way to Mr. Pink until then.

    • scratchnsniffnblog - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:45 PM

      What’s there to say? I stopped defending ownership a long time ago. Still love my Fish. I’ve celebrated as many or more World Series wins than any of my friends who are fans of other teams not named Yankees.

  7. sincitybonobo - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:04 AM

    Excellent post, Craig.

    Baseball fans and sponsors in South Florida have little choice but to starve the beast until this man is run out of town. He’ll make a handsome profit for himself, largely on the backs of taxpayers.

    It is the Commissioner’s job to hasten his departure. If the headlines look ugly in November, just imagine what next season will look like.

    Though all of your bullet points are damning, the most telling is Loria’s instinct to pocket revenue sharing money, rather than to invest in his franchise’s talent and infrastructure.

    Buster Onley recalled a conversation he had with an MLB team president in 2011 that basically predicted that Loria would gut and sell the team after the franchise’s value was bolstered by the new publicly funded ballpark.

    “On this episode of American Greed…”

    • indaburg - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:29 AM

      I agree, this is an excellent post. It’s a handy dandy wallet-size summary of Loria’s baseball crimes.

      There have been third world dictatorships run with more mercy than Loria’s baseball teams.

      Greed is good, I guess.

    • stevejeltzjehricurl - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:41 AM

      If everyone in MLB knew this was coming (and they did), they’re arguably complicit in it as well. The politicians in Miami are idiots (actually, let me amend that to take out “in Miami”), but the mere fact that his partners allowed him to do this exhibits a level of contempt for taxpayers and paying customers that is… well, expected, but nonetheless infuriating.

    • geoknows - Nov 14, 2012 at 11:12 AM

      Except that Loria is so greedy he couldn’t have the patience to wait for the franchise’s value to be resurrected. All fans of baseball should be thoroughly disgusted by this douchebag.

  8. 4d3fect - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:05 AM

    Gator, would you care to comment?

    • Old Gator - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:44 AM

      Eventually, and at great length. I’m…working on something, hinted at a few weeks back. It will be worth the wait.

      • Old Gator - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:47 AM

        PS – Craig didn’t miss anything. I have a meeting this AM so I don’t have time to develop anything and I still need to make myself throw up before I go. Now what did I do with those two fingers….

  9. fmlizard - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:14 AM

    Looks like after 1 year we will be once again treated to those awkward Sportscenter highlights of ushers shagging home run balls in the outfield seats.

  10. chill1184 - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:19 AM

    “At this point, they should be allowed to do so. People should stop showing up. Marlins fans, no matter how much they love their team, should shift their allegiances to one which does not hold them in contempt. Jeff Loria and Major League Baseball should be forced to sleep in the bed they made for themselves and suffer the consequences of their greed and cynicism. The new ballpark may make allowing Miami go the way of Montreal a tall order, but perhaps the franchise can at least wither on the vine long enough to make it more appealing for Loria to get out of the baseball business and find some other investment with which he can fleece the unsuspecting.

    In the meantime, anyone who decides to stick with the Marlins while this crowd is in charge deserves whatever they get from this abusive, exploitative relationship.”

    You can say this exact thing in regards to a few other MLB teams and fanbases

  11. heyblueyoustink - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:21 AM

    Kleptocracy…..well at least that’s better than a cheerocracy.

    While I was watching this go down last night, a scene from the movie “The Professional” came to mind:

    Loria: Trade Everyone.
    Samson: What do you mean, “everyone”?
    Loria: EVERYONE!!!!!

    • aceshigh11 - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:08 AM

  12. kiwicricket - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:29 AM

    Loria should extract/siphon/smuggle money from fans more discretely like other north American sports team owners.

    • indaburg - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:07 AM

      There’s a certain amount of decorum and propriety that needs to be maintained, you know. Buy us dinner, give us flowers and gifts, sweet talk.

      There are some good American team owners. Mike Ilitch of the Tigers/Red Wings, Jeff Vinik of the Lightning, Mark Cuban of the Maveriks, the Rooneys of the Steelers, the People of Green Bay. Even George Steinbrenner, for all his faults, was a good owner. He wanted his team to win.

      • stevejeltzjehricurl - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:49 AM

        It’s all relative — I live in DC and like Dan Snyder, but that’s because I hate the Redskins. He’s a lousy owner, but it’s not because he’s not trying to win — on the contrary, he tries too damn hard. On some level, it is the owner’s team — he paid the freight for it, and with the exception of the Packers in the NFL, these are civic institutions in name only. Plenty of owners live for the ego boost of being an owner, but those guys want to win because it furthers that ego boost. And there are plenty of owners who pinch pennies.

        But (and this is where Loria’s contemptible) there is a certain modicum of respect you need to show the paying customer. They expect you to put a decent product on the field, and make an attempt to win. Most of all, they don’t expect you to blatantly lie to them with a bait-and-switch like the Marlins pulled.

  13. catsmeat - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:30 AM

    Every time I start feeling down about the Mets being owned by the Wilpons, it seems that Jeffrey Loria does something to remind me that, yes, it could be worse.

    This guy is a clown. Time to move the Marlins to Montreal.

  14. kiwicricket - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:30 AM

    Samson even implies in the linked articles that he thinks the locals/governing body etc are a bunch of easily swindled simp’s.

    Don’t go to the games. Don’t purchase shitty team merchandise you don’t need. Only way to solve the problem.

  15. hojo20 - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:31 AM

    I can’t see Jose Reyes or Mark Buehrle being pleased about this trade.

    • proudlycanadian - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:42 AM

      Buehrle has pitched very well in Toronto in the past. I used to love watching games in which Halladay and Buehrle faced each other. They took less than 2 hours to play. If my memory is correct, even the 10 inning game between them took less than 2 hours.

    • kiwicricket - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:44 AM

      Why would they not be pleased?

      • nategearhart - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:50 AM

        Well we obviously can’t get inside their minds, but geography/location could have had a whole lot to do with their decision to go to Miami. Yes they’ll still get their money, but they’ve kind of been hoodwinked almost as badly as the fans.

      • hojo20 - Nov 14, 2012 at 11:52 AM

        You can’t tell me Buerhle isn’t looking back and thinking he could’ve taken less dough and be in St. Louis.

    • samu0034 - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:48 AM

      One thing it does make me curious about is the degree to which a player’s team can be held liable for a loss of income if he’s traded to a team that plays in a city/state with significantly higher taxation than the team for which the player signed the contract. I know I’ve heard arguments about (in addition to the weather) players choosing to sign with Florida based teams because of the lack of a state income tax there. Well, being an expat I know that taxation can get pretty ugly for us if we spend much time in the U.S. Blue Jays players are paid by a Canadian organization, and so are presumably subject to Canadian income taxes. They will also be spending at least 81 days within the United States, and so some portion of their income will be subject to taxation by the U.S. government. I’m just saying that it seems likely to me that each of these players is going to be taking home a lot less money than they would be if they were playing in Florida, and it’s a little curious to me that players don’t raise a bigger stink about that.

      • Cris E - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:11 AM

        The player contracts and rules of work are all laid out in stark black and white. If a guy is worried about the cost of living in one city or another he can negotiate for limited no-trades or COLA riders or anything else he wants. It’ll cost one way or another, but if it’s important it can be done.

  16. paperlions - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:49 AM

    Might be a good time to point out to people….when the owners in a league lock out the players (as is happening now in the NHL) and about 1/2 the fans decry the players as greedy bastards…when you do that, you are siding with guy like Loria. Because every league has a lot of them, most are just more subtle about their embezzlement of value from the franchises the fans support.

    • forsch31 - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:57 AM

      To be perfectly blunt, they’re both greedy bastards. Millionaries and billionaries arguing over pieces of a pie. Got no sympathy for any of ’em. I’d love to make $500,000 in a single season as a league minimum player sitting on the bench most of the time….

      • paperlions - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:51 AM

        I understand. But it is the players’ talent that is the basis for generation of 100% of the profits and for the entertainment. Owners are fungible. Players also don’t hold cities hostage to extort 100s of millions of dollars from tax payers to build homes for their hobbies.

        The players are simply asking for the money their play generates. The owners are the ones that increase prices regularly just to see if people will still pay those prices….and people will.

      • stevejeltzjehricurl - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:57 AM

        That’s not entirely fair to either party, but especially to the players. Many of the owners did earn their money in some fashion, taking risks to accumulate the capital necessary to become owners. That doesn’t mean that we we should support them in player-owner disputes, just that we should recognize that what most of us view as a dream (owning a team) wasn’t always accomplished through sheer luck but instead required some hard work.

        As for the players, it’s even more true. There are some owners who were lucky enough to inherit their money. The players all inherited talent, but there are very few (if any) who could coast on their talent and still make it to the bigs even as a bench player.

        And let’s face it — if placed in these situations, we would all try to maximize our value as well. We might do it with a bit more class and humility, but I’m not sure how humble I would be if my successes in business and/or athletics had been so substantial. It’s not their fault society places value on the products the owners own and the talents the players have honed.

      • forsch31 - Nov 14, 2012 at 3:09 PM

        …”The players are simply asking for the money their play generates. The owners are the ones that increase prices regularly just to see if people will still pay those prices….and people will.”

        Players are already taking more league revenue than the owners. That’s wrong, because the owners are the ones who take the financial risk. The players take the physical one, but they’re paid hansomely to do so, are provided with free medical care to fix whatever injuries they obtain to play the sport they love, and are financially responsible for just themselves. Owners still have a staff to maintain, still have to pay for the advertising, still have to pay for that free medical care, still have to pay the insurance rates for players and staff….I’m sorry, but the players are already making the money their play generates.

        Not all owners are like Loria. If they were, the league would be out of business.

  17. fuddpucker - Nov 14, 2012 at 8:51 AM

    There may be a MASS REVOLT at Miami’s new ballpark come April. MASS REVOLT as in empty seats.

    I’m just wondering, how empty will that ballpark be? This could be historic folks.

    • Old Gator - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:11 AM

      How would you differentiate the mass revolt from the usual run of apathy? (Tough to text on a train.)

  18. digbysellers - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:01 AM

    Loria = clown shoes

  19. stiffmcgriff - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:06 AM

    I understand that multiple “BIG” named players getting traded is “BIG” news. But when it comes to the Marlins?

    This franchise has always traded away its biggest talent.

    1997 Fire-sale
    Moises Alou
    Kevin Brown
    Bobby Bonilla, Gary Sheffield, Charles Johnson, Jim Eisenreich, Manuel Barrios for Mike Piazza and Todd Zeile (both THEN got traded midseason)

    Prior to 2002 season
    Matt Clement, Antonio Alfonseca for 4 players including Dontrelle Willis
    Cliff Floyd for 6 players including Carl Pavano
    (Same day as Floyd trade, sent Ryan Dempster to Reds for 2 players)

    Mike Hampton
    *Won World Series*
    Derrek Lee

    Brad Penny, Hee Seop Choi, Bill Murphy for 3 players including Juan Encarnacion

    Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell for Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez
    Carlos Delgado
    Juan Pierre
    Luis Castillo

    Miguel Cabrera, Dontrelle Willis for 6 players including Cameron Maybin
    (Mind you the Marlins turned down offers for Willis that included Justin Verlander and Curtis Granderson, Howie Kendrick and Ervin Santana, Matt Kemp and Clayton Kershaw. SERIOUSLY!!!)

    Dan Uggla for 2 players
    Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin for 2 players

    Jose Reyes, Josh Johnson, Mark Buerhle, John Buck, Emilio Bonifacio

    • geoknows - Nov 14, 2012 at 11:18 AM

      We understand that it’s just the Marlins being the Marlins. It’s just that enough is enough; and it’s time for this man to be forcibly evicted from baseball.

  20. xmatt0926x - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:13 AM

    I don’t care that the argument can be made that Miami received value in this trade. The point is that Loria doesn’t care about that value. That was way on the bottom of his list when he decided to go through with this fire sale. Craig mentioned some of the things that David Samson said at that gathering. I have mentioned a couple times here in the past that he also said at that meeting that it didn’t matter now (that the stadium was built) if the fans showed up or not because “we have all the money”. At that point right there I knew this day was coming. What else could show their true intent more so than that statement? Craig alkso made a good point that besides Loria, Selig and his cronies need to get some embarrassment from this. Nobody should show up to those games!! I can’t imagine the guy who willingly pays to enter that ballpark with his kids at this point. The fans in Miami should start spreading the word to totally stay away. Will that achieve anything substantial? Probably not but don’t you have to do something to say F-you to this guy and to Selig?

  21. mrwillie - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:17 AM

    It’s clear Loria hates baseball. It’s the equivalent of letting a vegetarian run a bacon factory.

    • stevejeltzjehricurl - Nov 14, 2012 at 11:00 AM

      Love this analogy, mostly because it reminds me of bacon. Ummm… bacon.

  22. willclarkgameface - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:33 AM

    I have said it before and I’ll say it again: Florida baseball sucks.

    That fucktard Loria is a crook and this certifies that as long as he owns the team they 1) will suck 2) will NEVER attract big name players 3) will be the puke that their ballpark decoration looks like.

    Have fun with that Marlins “fans”.

    • nategearhart - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:55 AM

      I know that being a blowhard jackass is kind of your MO, but leave the r-word and any portmanteau involving it out of here, please. Thanks.

    • indaburg - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:56 AM

      Loria is a fucktard crook who pulled this crap on Montreal before trying it on Miami. Don’t blame Florida baseball. Blame MLB.

  23. tomtravis76 - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:46 AM

    The way you can start affecting the Marlins, is by stop supporting their sponsors in and out of the stadium. Stop watching the games on TV, stop listening to games on the radio and stop supporting the businesses who advertise with the TV and radio affiliates. And stop going to games. Loria could careless, but when corporate spnsors start pulling money, it hurts revenue.

    MLB needs an ownership review board for guys like Loria and Angelos. MLB also needs a salary floor and cap. The Marlins are going to hurt revenue at all ballparks they visit this upcoming season, nobody wants to see them play because they are not putting MLB talent on the field, why should fans of teams who play the Marlins have to pay for tickets at home when the Marlins won’t be bringing an MLB to town?

  24. js20011041 - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:50 AM

    If you want an even better idea of how much of a POS Loria and that sawed off little cocksucker Samson are, check out how back loaded those contracts of Reyes, Beuhrle, and to a smaller extent, Bell are.

    Per Cot’s contacts, Reyes was paid $10 M, in 2012, is due another $10 M in 2013, then his salary jumps to $16 M in 2014, and then $22 M per year for the rest of the contract.

    Beuhrle was paid $7 M in 2012, is due $12 M in 2013, $19 M in 2014, and $20 M in 2015.

    Bell was paid $7 M this year, and is due $10 M for the next two years.

    So for all the talk of spending money on players, Loria/Samson only paid $24 million for those three players. They had absolutely zero intention of keeping them beyond, at latest, next year.

    • cur68 - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:33 AM

      Keep in mind that Alex Anthopolous is no slouch at dumping overloaded contracts himself. He showed what he could do by sending Vernon Wells on his way and Alex Rios. Both of those contracts were considered untradeable and both times he got back better talent for less money.

      • mazblast - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:22 PM

        In the case of Rios, he got nothing except contract relief.

  25. Francisco (FC) - Nov 14, 2012 at 9:56 AM

    While we all hate on Loria we should remember that in order to trade, you need another Baseball Team willing to execute, shouldn’t we be at least a tiny bit annoyed at the Blue Jays for enabling this SOB? Honestly I think they keep Loria around so the other owners can get a chance at cashing in on great talent every few years.

    • chill1184 - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:09 AM

      I see your point but the Blue Jays are doing what every other team does in the off season; improving the team. Its not the Jays fault that the Marlins agreed to such an offer

      • Old Gator - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:26 AM

        He studied how the Borg used Kansas City as its farm team in the 50s and 60s, I guess.

      • Steve A - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:33 AM

        Agreed. AA’s not doing his job if he fails to explore a trade because he doesn’t want to enable another team’s fire sale.

      • cur68 - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:34 AM

        What’s more he knows that nothing will stop the sale. And if The Empire get there first…

      • stevejeltzjehricurl - Nov 14, 2012 at 11:02 AM

        Can’t blame the Jays more than you blame the rest of MLB for being complicit in allowing Loria to keep doing this to Miami. The Jays did what any competitor should do — sought to make themselves better.

    • js20011041 - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:09 AM

      Absolutely not. The Blue Jays have no obligation except to themselves. I actually don’t think that the return that the Marlins got back was bad at all. But trades don’t occur in a vacuum. You have to look at who is making the trade, for what reasons, and what their history is like. No one accused the Red Sox of making a fire sale when they traded Gonzalez, Beckett, and Crawford. When you consider the history of Loria/Samson and the fact that all of those contracts they traded are incredibly backloaded, this is not about making the franchise better, either in the short term, or long term. This is a salary dump, pure and simple.

      • Francisco (FC) - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:41 AM

        But that’s precisely my problem. All of MLB knows of Loria’s history. In agreeing to such trades and MLB allowing them they are participating in the willful screwing of a baseball franchise and its fan base. But as long as all owners just see opportunities and the commissioner looks away this guy will keep doing what he does. Trades do not occur in a vacuum, but this kind of behavior also does not occur in a vacuum. You can’t tell me Selig and AA didn’t realize how this crap was going to look like the day after. They are enablers and enablers have a share in the responsibility of what’s going on.

      • js20011041 - Nov 14, 2012 at 10:47 AM

        Bud Selig has an obligation to protect the integrity of the game (not that by any of his actions over the last twenty years has he shown he actually cares about baseball), but individual teams do not. Individual teams don’t, and shouldn’t, have to worry about all of baseball. That’s the job of the commisioner’s office.

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