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David Samson: At least the Marlins aren’t the Pirates!

Nov 15, 2012, 2:27 PM EDT

David Samson AP

That’s a paraphrase. But here is what the Miami Marlins president said when he was on 790 The Ticket in Miami yesterday and was asked about whether the Marlins have betrayed their fans:

What do you say to the people who feel betrayed?

“I think people should feel betrayed by the fact we were losing so much, I would think they wouldn’t want us to stand pat and keep losing. We don’t want to be one of those teams that for 20 years doesn’t win 81 games or doesn’t make the playoffs …

Well then.

  1. tfbuckfutter - Nov 15, 2012 at 2:33 PM

    Considering it’s been 9 seasons with no playoffs…..

    • tfbuckfutter - Nov 15, 2012 at 2:35 PM

      Coincidentally enough their last playoff appearance was also Loria’s first season owning the team.

      • Old Gator - Nov 15, 2012 at 3:27 PM

        Which is another way of saying it was the last time they got to hide behind Dave Dombrowski.

  2. richyballgame - Nov 15, 2012 at 2:37 PM

    Almost there David,almost there.

  3. schlom - Nov 15, 2012 at 2:37 PM

    Shouldn’t we hold off on the vitriol for the Marlins until we find out how the trade turns out? It’s certainly possible that this turns out to be a brilliant move for the Marlins – if Reyes can’t stay healthy (which is very possible) and Buerhle significantly regresses (not as likely but also possible).

    Also for everyone thinking that there is no way the Marlins can sign free agents – that’s bs because if they offer enough money they can sign anyone.

    • pdowdy83 - Nov 15, 2012 at 2:48 PM

      No, we shouldn’t hold off. The vitriol has nothing to with the way the trade turns out. It has to do with that Loria is a lying, corrupt owner who only cares about lining his pockets with revenue sharing money and a stadium that was mostly funded by tax dollars. He suckered the Miami-Dade area with false promises of a new way of doing things and higher payrolls etc. He then tore it apart in less than 12 months. They deserve every ounce of hatred they are getting.

      • Old Gator - Nov 15, 2012 at 3:47 PM

        I listened to that interview yesterday, even though it featured two of the folks I can least stand to listen to under any circumstances – the Chihuahua himself and the unendurably juvenile and viscous Dan LeBatard. The Chihuahua spins like Tazzy and if the text doesn’t tell you that he doesn’t give a crap on the den Persian rug when no one is looking, his tone of voice would have. It may well be that he’s really a maggot, cleverly disguised as a lapdog.

    • alang3131982 - Nov 15, 2012 at 2:48 PM

      Why wait for hindsight? The only thing that matters is now because that is the only facts the two organizations have at the moment.

      In addition, I dont think people are saying the trade is that awful in and off itself. It does seem like a decent salary dump (although they didnt get any of the truly major Blue Jays pieces or quantity really).

      The problem is the organization clearly wanted to cut costs after they got a publicly funded stadium and Lauria is a hack who ruined baseball in Montreal. So there is a track record of deceit…

      • schlom - Nov 15, 2012 at 3:20 PM

        The only thing that matters is results. I don’t understand why you would only judge a trade at the time it was made – who really cares about that? By that logic you would say that a team would have been better off to have Jacoby Ellsbury at CF for 2012 than Mike Trout because Ellsbury was better coming into the season.

    • tfbuckfutter - Nov 15, 2012 at 2:49 PM

      Who is going to sign with them without demanded a no trade clause?

      They signed Reyes, Buehrle and Bell last offseason and traded all of them in less than a year.

      Why would a free agent, who can sign anywhere, agree to sign with the Marlins just to be traded to who knows where?

      • schlom - Nov 15, 2012 at 3:12 PM

        Do you seriously think players really care enough about no trade clauses to turn down millions of dollars? The Marlins have been a laughingstock organization since the mid 200o’s and they still managed to sign Reyes and Buerhle – and could have easily signed Pujols as well.

        There might be a few players who have signed for less money than they could have gotten somewhere else but the team that offers the most money almost always signs the player.

      • tfbuckfutter - Nov 15, 2012 at 3:20 PM

        The Marlins have never been a laughingstock as far as their performance. They have, since 2000 more or less always hovered around .500.

        They are a laughingstock for the way the team is run dating back to their first firesale in 1998.

        And yes, big name free agents do factor in a no-trade clause, and now with the Marlins even mid-grade free agents will probably demand it. Which the Marlins won’t give. Why? Because it will prevent future firesales.

      • cosanostra71 - Nov 15, 2012 at 3:45 PM

        “Do you seriously think players really care enough about no trade clauses to turn down millions of dollars?”

        Pujols did.

      • schlom - Nov 15, 2012 at 4:14 PM

        Pujols didn’t give a damn about the no-trade clause – he cared more about the $15 million more the Angels gave him. I understand that players might want no-trade clauses by a highly doubt any player is going to turn down a contract for more money from a team that doesn’t grant them.

      • forsch31 - Nov 15, 2012 at 7:31 PM

        The Marlins offered more than the Angels, about $25 million more in guaranteed salary total than what he eventually got. With incentives and no state tax in Florida, the deal could have been worth $300 million, according to USA Today.

        Albert Pujols turned down the Marlins’ offer because they refused to give him a no-trade clause. It was the deal breaker, as reported by those with knowledge of the negotiations and Pujols’ former teammates who talked to him after the dust settled. He had one automatically with the Cardinals because of league rules, and he has a full no trade clause with the Angels.
        Yes, he wanted a bigger contract than what the Cardinals offered, which is why he signed with the Angels when they offered it, but a no trade clause was an essential part of his contract demands, make no mistake.

        The Marlins managed to sign Reyes and Buerhle because supposedly the team had turned a management corner. They got a much desired new stadium, and there appeared to be new commitment to constructing a winner and revamping the franchise. Then, after one bad season, that commitment evaporated, and three players who signed multi-year deals just this past off-season find themselves with a new team. The fact is that many players want stability with whatever organization they sign with, or at least have some control over where they go if things don’t work out. That’s why those no trade clauses exist in the first place; owners don’t like them, but the players demand them, so yes, they do care enough about no trade clauses.

        The Marlins had a hard time attracting players before last off-season; now it will be near impossible for them to acquire good talent on the free agent market.

    • natstowngreg - Nov 15, 2012 at 5:56 PM

      @schlom — You’re right, but we fans, by our natures as fans, don’t have the patience to wait several years. With all due respect, I think expecting us to wait years isn’t entirely fair.

      A move can be judged at whatever point in time you want. A trade that looks bad now can look good in a year, or 5 years, or never. In this case, given the young talent the Marlins acquired, it’s probably going to be more like 5 years, or never.

  4. prosourcetalk - Nov 15, 2012 at 2:39 PM

    I guess if you’re going to crap on your own fans then may as well crap on others

  5. Jeremy T - Nov 15, 2012 at 2:49 PM

    So basically the best he can say is “it could be worse”? What a joke…

  6. losangelesfan - Nov 15, 2012 at 2:52 PM

    That’s something to live up to. ‘New Mexico-At least we’re not Mexico’

    Of course, Samson is up to 5’2″. I’d like to see him and Rosenthal fight.

  7. witeman10 - Nov 15, 2012 at 2:53 PM

    yes Mr. Samson, cuz shipping out all your top players for guys who won’t be good for another 3-4 years is a great way to help your team win sooner rather than later…

    • witeman10 - Nov 15, 2012 at 2:55 PM

      the reason the priates are never good is because their best players always leave town and the team has to start over with prospects…like the marlins are doing right now.

      so you’re in fact following the exact same recipe for success as the pirates.

      • paperlions - Nov 15, 2012 at 3:11 PM

        Well, that…and the fact that their best players often weren’t really that good and there weren’t very many of them. If the Pirates had a team that was ALL of the best players they’ve had over the last 15 years when each of those players was in his prime, they would probably be about a .500 team.

      • steelerdynasty2010 - Nov 16, 2012 at 7:44 AM

        they dont just leave town…we trade them for “prospects” that arent any good when we trade for them, and dont become any good once they’re a part of our organization. it never fails. i’m surprised we havent found a way to trade away McCutcheon yet, but i’m giving it time. probably going to happen over the offseason. wish i could feel bad for you Marlins fans, but i just cant muster the sympathy..try being a pirates fan and you’ll REALLY know what suffering and betrayal are all about….want to talk about owners making NO attempt to be a contender while lining their own pockets, take a look at our product over the last 2, count them two, DECADES…consecutively…and we’ve already begun the era of our 3rd consecutive DECADE…..

  8. zzalapski - Nov 15, 2012 at 2:54 PM

    Impotence is too good for this jackwagon.

  9. witeman10 - Nov 15, 2012 at 3:02 PM

    2012 marlins = panic 101. the sad thing is, if they had just a little patience, kept the guys they had while making a couple tweeks and a couple more pickups here n there…get a healthy stanton for a full season. get a better manager than guillen. they really coulda been dangerous in 2013…

    they were actually close to building something competitive, they just needed a little more fine tuning. instead they chose to start from scratch again.

    • Old Gator - Nov 15, 2012 at 3:35 PM

      Wel-l-l, I don’t know that they were really all that close. They overestimated a lot of their players – they kept expecting the Hanster to “snap out” of a protracted three season long schneid; they kept expecting Tweeter to “mature,” they kept waiting for Reecky Nolasco to become consistent, kept expecting Heath Bell to find his old groove, they kept thinking that if Black Hole Buck swung hard enough, he might hit the ball more often – which is a bit like an American tourist in Sao Paulo thinking that if he just yelled loudly enough in English, the Portugese-speaking cab driver who has gotten him totally lost will finally understand where he’s trying to tell him to go. The fact is, this team was only as good as what you saw. And they finally figured that out. Problem is, they’re being taken in context for a change and justifiably criticized for all their mistakes, not just for this particular blowup and crapout. The anger and bitterness you sense is cumulative, and it damned well should be.

  10. roverkarlthecannedham - Nov 15, 2012 at 3:29 PM

    My goodness. What cretins these Marlins people are. Nothing they have done helped their team in any way. The 2 pitchers for some of the talent back might be a good idea but in no way shape or form is unloading the best player on the team a good move. These individuals must think that we fans are stupid or easily fooled. A quick look around at who Marlins supporters are here on the baseball pages reveals no one is fooled. In fact their number one fan seems the antitheses of a fool. How is it that they can get away with this?

    • Old Gator - Nov 15, 2012 at 4:41 PM

      Indefinitely, as long as Macondoans continue to elect crooks, incompetents and fools to the city and county commissions just because they hate Castro, and/or Bud Light continues to wink at the destructive antics of the owners who best do his bidding and lick his boots.

  11. vipod4ever - Nov 15, 2012 at 3:34 PM

    I guess the Hobbit has spoken!
    Loria & Samson tried this in Montreal, the city no, and they proceeded to get Selig to buy into south florida. These two carpetbaggers have no love for the game, their team is simply a piece of art work, waiting to be sold.

  12. florida76 - Nov 15, 2012 at 3:47 PM

    Laughable comment by the representative of the Marlins, who are clearly in spin control right now. The reality of the situation is that the Pirates are definitely in better shape than Miami. Despite a new stadium and a massive payroll, the Marlins were only able to outdraw the Bucs by 1300 per game. Even with the new stadium, Miami’s long term condition with this owner is poor.

    Meanwhile, the Pirates have upgraded their farm system, and signed one of baseball’s best young players to a long term deal before the beginning of this season. And the Pirates outdrew Toronto, the White Sox, among others despite the decline over the last 58 games.

    People who understand the game know the Bucs are improving, 2012 was a 22 game improvement over 2010. These are positive signs for this storied franchise, and one with a tradition superior than most MLB clubs.

  13. jcioffi1485 - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:17 PM

    I cant say I’m filled with hate as much as I’m more ashamed than a battered woman who desperately wants to believe her man when he says he’s sorry and promises to change.

  14. sbmcintosh36 - Nov 16, 2012 at 8:17 AM

    When did the Marlins get fans??
    I watch the games i go to the stadium and it’s half empty it’s joke yeah Loria is an enormous douche but the people of Miami have no one to blame but themselves they don’t support the team so what are they supposed to do field an overpaid team that doesn’t win and lose money??

  15. bigleagues - Nov 16, 2012 at 3:35 PM

    Prediction:

    The lasting fallout from the latest Marlins player/salary dump will be the following …

    – In the next 12 months, Jeffrey Loria will be bought out by MLB,

    – Stuart Sternberg will be offered the option of moving the ‘Rays’ franchise to South Florida (which, with Miami being a Top 10 Market, and growing, he would be wise to accept). In this scenario, Sternberg would also get ownership of the Marlins trademark, and the Marlin is a superior logo to ‘sun light’.

    – In order to make this all happen, and fix the massive damage that Loria has done not only to the Marlins franchise, but to all of MLB (and especially the Rays), MLB owners will divide the costs of a Tropicana Field lease buyout equally among all 30 teams.

    – In a perfect world, the MLB-controlled franchise would then be offered to Montreal and stay in the AL East, but in the flawed universe that we actually occupy that long rumored 3rd NYC area team could be created. OR, some crazy chain of realignment events are set in motion like the Indians shifting back to the AL East and the receivership team sold to an ownership group in Oklahoma City and ensure at least another 100 years of Indians title futility.

    Selig can do virtually anything he wants with the consent of the other owners, and they could collectively be angry enough at Loria that they’ll see if Sternberg is interested in a simple swap. But then the 100 or so Rays fans that show up at games will wonder why they are being punished.

    One thing I am certain of . . . there will be consequences for Loria this time. If not . . . what incentive is there dissuading him from doing this again?

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