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The other owners are not pleased with Jeff Loria

Nov 15, 2012, 9:46 AM EDT

Jeff Loria victory

The Marlins-Blue Jays trade occurred on the eve of the latest Owners Meeting.  Which led to some awesome junior high school cafeteria stuff. Ken Davidoff of the New York Post reports:

Loria, according to one industry source, sat alone in the lunch room, not conversing with his fellow owners. Teams from the American League East were unhappy that the Blue Jays improved dramatically, clubs from the National League Central and West were displeased that the four other NL East members would be able to feast on the carcass posing as the Marlins and there was a general sense of embarrassment over the Marlins cutting bait just one year after opening a new ballpark built overwhelmingly with public monies.

And if you’re the Tampa Bay Rays or Oakland Athletics, more than a sense of embarrassment. For them — and any other sports owner who may want to get a new stadium in the foreseeable future — there should be anger.

Loria, both with the way the stadium deal went down in Miami, and now with this cynical, soul-killing trade, has given anti-ballpark advocates a ton of ammunition. He has likewise rendered the old “we need a ballpark to be competitive, just wait until we have one!” pitch of team owners even more obviously hollow than it ever was.  Which is great if, like me, you oppose public stadium projects, but really has to tick off those who want one of their own.

  1. jarathen - Nov 15, 2012 at 9:50 AM

    May this fish-stain be ousted quickly and never heard from again in baseball. What a tremendously awful owner.

    • tigers182 - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:06 AM

      The fish should be denied any revenue sharing money.

    • dcfan4life - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:13 AM

      Theres owners who wont spend (Astros, Diamondbacks, Padres), owners who cant spend (Athletics, Pirates, Royals), owners who spend badly (Mets, Cubs), and Jeff Loria. He is in a class by himself. This team will not be able to attract talent, which they wont chase anyways, wont be competitive, and will still INCREASE in value. Loria will then sell the team in a few years for a huge profit. The Marlins may then move since im sure ratings and attendence will plummit due to the poor product on the field, rendering that publicly funded stadium useless. This is fraud. This is theft. And another crook, con man, and general piece of crap, Bud Selig will still have his job. When will his reign end. And man i hope his replacement remembers the fans…

      • APBA Guy - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:26 PM

        Minor point: include the A’s owners as “won’t spend” rather than “can’t spend”.

      • kevinbnyc - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:47 PM

        Really can’t AND won’t. I’ve seen their games…there are about 13 people there unless a big team is in town.

      • 1historian - Nov 16, 2012 at 7:17 AM

        “This is fraud. This is theft.”

        This is also MLB today.

    • Bruce Knutson - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:49 AM

      This is a Bud Selig problem more than a Loria problem. Selig is the one who let’s his buddies rape this great game.
      http://sfgiantsfansunite.blogspot.com/

      • bjbeliever - Nov 15, 2012 at 1:54 PM

        You are as relentless as you are shameless…stop plugging your site

  2. heyblueyoustink - Nov 15, 2012 at 9:55 AM

    Maybe those teams, since MLB is always accused of collusion anyway, can collude to some small sanctions, like not dealing with the Marlins in any kind of trade capacity, restricting the amount of guest seats for the Marlin’s ownership, including the elimination of the guest owner’s suite when the Marlins come to their park, and encourage their fan bases that travel to avoid tips to the Marlin’s new stadium.

    • indaburg - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:03 AM

      I was planning a trip to Miami next season when the Rays played the Marlins during interleague play to check out the new digs. I can’t bring myself to go now. I don’t want to put a cent in the Marlins’ pockets.

      • sincitybonobo - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:17 AM

        During the waning days of the McCourt era in LA, I went the Stubhub route. Whatever cut the team got from an individual ticket was small enough that I could justify it. I also hitched a ride on the complimentary bus from Union Station (round trip) and stayed away from the concession and merchandise stands. Half-price Dodger Dog day, however, was too much to resist.

      • indaburg - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:28 AM

        Who couldn’t resist half-price Dodger Dog day? You’re only mortal.

        I was thinking of going the Stub Hub route, but I was concerned about the Marlins getting a cut. There’s always scalping too.

      • chadjones27 - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:46 AM

        indaburg, you could still buy tickets from a place like StubHub, where I’m sure there will be many tickets available from people who already bought them. Take a cab to the stadium. Don’t buy food or beer there. You get to see the team in Miami and haven’t added to any own’ers pockets… except the stubhub rape, I mean, convenience fee.

      • indaburg - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:09 PM

        I always sneak my flask into the games. It’s more exciting that way and beer prices are ridiculous. I will take even more pleasure sneaking it into Marlins Park.

        Ok, the trip is back on, and I’m taking the home run monstrosity with me.

      • kiwicricket - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:06 PM

        I don’t understand how the team doesn’t make money from you if you buy from stubhub. It’s part of the same cycle is it not?

      • chadjones27 - Nov 15, 2012 at 4:48 PM

        kiwi, the ball team makes money from the original sale. So, if you buy from someone on stubhub, the team has already made their money. The proceeds from the stubhub sale go just to stubhub. Since the ticket on stubhub has already been bought by someone else, you’re not adding to the team’s pockets. It’s really all you can do to limit the team’s profits.

    • xmatt0926x - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:58 AM

      How about just tightening up the rules with respect to who gets revenue sharing money and how it’s used? Why should this guy get so much revenue sharing money? I’ll never understand why it’s so hard to do a better job of making sure the money is used to improve the team as opposed to just pocketing it. What was it, 10 years ago that the Pirates owner was outed as being one of the biggest abusers and here we are with that team still not having a winning record for 20 years. George Steinbrenner was right. He shouldn’t have had to support teams like that who have no real desire to win. Sons of bitches!!!!!

      • klingonj - Nov 16, 2012 at 6:28 AM

        Lots of folks pointed fingers at George S. and made comments about throwing money around. He made a profit on his team and he also tried like hell to win. Loria does this all the time and people act shocked (like the cop in Casablanca). Loria will say its what was done in years past and proven to win within a few years. If this stuff stops public financing scams its well worth it. I just feel for the people of Miami that fell for this.

    • dcfan4life - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:16 AM

      Such plans play into Jeff Lorias hands. His team will increase in value and the lack of fan support eliminates costs and allows him the leverage he needs to sell the team to a larger bidder looking to move the team elsewhere. Im not sure fans of the Marlins can win. Only Bud Selig can stop this, and hes in league with Loria so thats not happening. Its just a shame men like this own sports franchises.

  3. stex52 - Nov 15, 2012 at 9:57 AM

    I assumed that they would be dumping all over him. I am sure he weeps as he goes to the bank. Maybe a little more due diligence by the owners will be the norm in the future. I hated the condition of the having to go to the AL, but otherwise I didn’t mind them putting Astros ownership under a microscope. Like it or not, these guys become an expression of their communities.

    • kkolchak - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:06 AM

      “I am sure he weeps as he goes to the bank.”

      Loria is clearly a sociopath who cares not one whit who he hurts.

  4. historiophiliac - Nov 15, 2012 at 9:57 AM

    I hope Ilitch threw spitballs at him and the NL East gang gave him a wedgie later!

    • indaburg - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:11 AM

      If anyone gave Loria a wedgie, it was Hank Steinbrenner. Henry and pals were probably whispering in the corner spreading rumors about him. Sternberg probably just went up to him and said, “Loria, you broke my heart.You broke my heart!”

      • historiophiliac - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:23 AM

        I’m sure there was FB drama too.

      • Old Gator - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:10 AM

        To all of which Scrooge McLoria, lifting a charlotte rousse to his mouth, replied “See if you can guess what I am now….”

  5. indaburg - Nov 15, 2012 at 9:59 AM

    Oh, you best believe I’m furious in Tampa Bay. He seriously screwed the Rays. Thanks for the death knell on any hopes we had for a new stadium. Thanks for making one of our rivals significantly better.

    • cur68 - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:42 AM

      Yep. Thanks, Jeff.

      • indaburg - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:21 PM

        I hope you feel really dirty thanking him after what he did to your Expos, your first love.

      • cur68 - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:29 PM

        Oh I do. Strong soap, potent alcohol, and certain religious acts will be needed to shrive my soul after this one. Still, in spite of the massive dump Loria took in pretty much all of baseball’s pool he didn’t actually hurt My Boys directly. His scamming of Miami allowed Anthopolous to do a couple of things he always wanted to do: build the club and show the world what an odious turd Loria was. Loria is in hot water with the other owners right now. Anthopolous, who’s baseball lineage goes back to the Expos, knows this and likely saw this coming when he found out he could get in on this fire sale. He gets the double whammy: excellent pieces for The Beav and Loria shunned and ridiculed by the other owners. AA be the BOMB.

      • indaburg - Nov 15, 2012 at 1:17 PM

        Anthopolous’ Revenge. It’s a shame there had to be so much collateral damage.

      • cur68 - Nov 15, 2012 at 1:28 PM

        Some team was always going to get Loria’s salary dump. All AA did was see to it that it was My Boys. The collateral damage? The really sweet part is that its The Aged Empire, Rebuilding Red Sox & Punchless Rays most directly damaged in the AL. AA be the BOMB.

      • indaburg - Nov 15, 2012 at 1:50 PM

        I HATE YOU.

      • historiophiliac - Nov 15, 2012 at 9:19 PM

        Hey, Burgie, do you need a recipe for Beaver stew?

      • cur68 - Nov 15, 2012 at 9:28 PM

        I love Beaver Stew. Mmmm. Beaver.

    • leeeroooyjeeenkiiins - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:46 AM

      The sad thing is, we actually have a case for getting a new stadium…as long as it’s in Tampa. The Marlins deal was ridiculous on so many levels, but one of the biggest is that they didn’t really move much at all.

      In the Rays case, a new stadium is justified not for the stadium itself(although the Trop is pretty horrible), but for the need to relocate the team in Tampa. I’m a resident in Pinellas and i clearly recognize it needs to be away from here to survive, but Mayor Foster is in it for himself and you’d better believe he’ll reference this example every single chance he gets going forward.

      • js20011041 - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:01 PM

        Whether the Rays get a new stadium in Pinellas, Hillsborough, or they move somewhere else, the taxpayers should not be on the hook. I’m ok with a municipality building the stadium, but the team should for one thing, pay taxes on the land, and two, pay back the cost of the stadium with interest. Either that or create a permanent business partnership in which the team isn’t allowed to move for a set amount of time and the city/county receives a certain percentage of the profit. But under no circumstances should we be giving the ultra wealthy tax free land and be building them a stadium in which to maximize their profits.

  6. dumbasdirt - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:01 AM

    After the Marlins fire sale in 1997, they won 54 games in 1998, and 64 games in 1999. So the few Marlins fans that are left can look forward to many more more dismal seasons in an empty stadium. Way to go Loria.

    • Old Gator - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:12 AM

      Not this Feesh fan. I have no intention of setting foot inside that stadium again – and believe me, I really do love the place – as long as that selfish little slug and his camaraderie of crooks owns the team.

  7. xjokerz - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:03 AM

    SEND HIM TO PRISON FOR FRAUD, LOL @ IF I WAS A MARLINS FAN ID BE SO FURIOUS… HOW DARE YOU TRADE AWAY HANLEY, REYES, JJ, and my Tigers get shafted for OMAR INFANTE? DAMN YOU FISH

  8. Gamera the Brave - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:06 AM

    I have to say, in defense of the Marlins/Jays trade, that we have gotten way more Old Gator comments than we would otherwise have this offseason…

  9. chill1184 - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:12 AM

    Other than the collective public bitch fest, the owners aren’t going to do much. If the rest of MLB owners club actually presses Selig to do something then some of them will be under the microscope themselves.

  10. sportsnut101 - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:17 AM

    Why is it fraud. If anything the players are fraud. They took the high pay n then sucked the whole season they were in last place. So u keep with same team that came in last place is that good for baseball so he traded them away n got young talent back They do this in Oakland every few yrs Every time Oakland players get good billy Beene trades for young talent. Where’s the talk there. Marlins have 2 world series rings just as many as the mets who overspend

    • chill1184 - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:28 AM

      How you blame the players is beyond me. How can you say for a fact that the players mailed it in from day one? The truth is that you cant and the only ones who would know would be the players themselves.

      Oakland trades their talent because someone in the FO believes they cant resign them knowing that teams like the Yankees, Red Sox and others will roll up the money truck for them. Oakland’s strategy is based on their surroundings. If you can’t keep a player you have to trade him. Something is better than nothing.

      For the Mets 1969 and 1986 was based on farm development and trades. Their massive spending netting nothing other than the 2006 NL East title. It also helps that Wilpon is a prominent crony of Selig

  11. plmathfoto - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:25 AM

    Asking lawyer Craig (or whomever) are there any grounds for the city of Miami to sue the Marlins. I know there was talk about lawsuits about misrepresenting the Marlins lack of funds with the city, but any grounds for I don’t know, misrepresenting having a competitive, interesting, exciting, revenue generating team? I know it’s a reach, but really don’t know, even if it’s frivolous.

    • sumerduckman - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:33 AM

      The city of Miami could file a civil suit, then hire Peter Angelos to represent them.

      • rockthered1286 - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:01 PM

        Angelos? Wait is their asbetos or cigarettes involved here?

      • dowhatifeellike - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:01 PM

        Nah, Angelos only takes the big asbestos cases.

  12. sincitybonobo - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:26 AM

    Very telling reaction from the other owners. Though Loria may not have specifically broken any rule beyond the pilfering of revenue sharing dollars, his antics have been so indefensible that in the public’s mind a tipping point has been reached.

    Bud has enabled this charlatan for years, as you have noted, and does not seem inclined to run one of his henchman out of the game. But, if the Marlins draw less than a million fans next year and Loria’s evisceration by the media continues and intensifies, it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that he sells the team, makes hundreds of millions in profits, and leaves the Marlins in the hands of someone who actually will put forth a good faith effort to make MLB work in South Florida.

    The fans in South Florida need to apply as much pressure to make this happen as soon as possible.

    NL Central and West teams shooting for a Wild Card berth will play the Marlins six times each. NL East teams will play them 19 times each. Perhaps the trade doesn’t get squashed, but the bigger picture is that Loria needs to be run out of baseball.

    STL, CIN, LAD could each go 2-4 against the Fish and each lose a WC berth to a combo of WAS, ATL, or PHI, who could potentially have a combined record of 33-25 against this team. (.596 winning percentage). It could be worse than that. Much worse.

    • sincitybonobo - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:28 AM

      4-2, that is.

    • forsch31 - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:55 AM

      Well, to be honest, St. Louis and Cinn. both had the advantage of playing the dead carcasses of the Cubs (.377 “winning” percentage) and the Astros (.340) this past season, and they just happened to be the two worst teams in baseball. Weak divisions happen, and if the Phillies rebound this season, then the NL East probably won’t be all that different from last season’s model, no matter how bad the Marlins turn out to be.

    • forsch31 - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:00 AM

      Well, to be honest, St. Louis and Cinn. both had the advantage of playing the dead carcasses of the Cubs (.377 “winning” percentage) and the Astros (.340) this past season, and they just happened to be the two worst teams in baseball. Weak divisions happen, and if the Phillies rebound this season, then the NL East probably won’t be all that different from last season’s model, no matter how bad the Marlins turn out to be.

      The Reds and Cardinals would have a more difficult time anyway. The Astros will be in the American League, and the Brewers probably will continue to build on their late season success.

  13. proudlycanadian - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:28 AM

    Were the representatives of the Jays also given the cold shoulder? How dare they try to buy a winner just when the Yankees and Red Sox have issues?

    • cur68 - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:50 AM

      Talk about striking when the iron was hot, eh? AA did really well. Waited for The Empire to show its age, the Sox to consume themselves, and the Rays to come up hitting-less and then…POUNCED on Loria. He had what that Cane Toad wanted and he plucked the best of The Feesh rotation and infield with it. Sure he has to figure out what to do with John Buck, but he loves him replacement level catchers, does AA. He knows that if you have one around spare, sometime, say about June, someone will need one and BAM you got you a prospect or a bullpen arm for your Sad Sack Of -1WAR. He’s added bench speed, and defensive replacements, he’s added rotation depth. Now, one more SP, I think. One more SP and Dave Martinez from The Rays to manage and the team will be ready. When do pitchers and catchers report?

      • klingonj - Nov 16, 2012 at 6:34 AM

        it was in mid winter last year when the Fish were appointed NL East champs after their signings and trades. Blue Jays are now appointed AL East Champs- let me know how it works out in Sept 2013. There are still the Yankees, Rays and Orioles left.

  14. nategearhart - Nov 15, 2012 at 10:50 AM

    It is indeed a silver lining if this fiasco helps keep communities from funding stadiums. Thanks for pointing that out, Craig!

    • paperlions - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:04 AM

      Was just going to say that….fans should be happy with this aspect. We could list all of the new stadiums from the last 10 years and see ZERO effect of a new stadium on salary of those teams or competitiveness of those teams. Public financing of stadiums is just a handout to billionaires that can’t be bothered to support their hobbies with their own money…and additional revenues are just pocketed. Cheap owners don’t suddenly become generous because they are making more money, the just become richer.

    • chill1184 - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:04 AM

      Ironically if you read the history on why the Dodgers left Brooklyn to go to LA. One of the reasons why is that the owner Walter O’Malley wanted to build his new stadium with his own money so he could reap the profits. NYC like all governments want their cut as well so as result refused to sell O’Malley the land he wanted to build a new home for the Dodgers.

      • klingonj - Nov 16, 2012 at 6:36 AM

        O’ Malley wasgeared up for California from the get go. He jsut needed some local competition (Giants) to go with him. The idea he wanted to use his own money was and still is revisionist history. For the record, I am not nor ever was a Brooklyn Dodger fan.

  15. xmatt0926x - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:06 AM

    I have this image of a bunch of old school owners sitting around a table trying to figure out how to get some revenge and one of them finally says ” why doesn’t someone just clip him?”. Maybe I’ve seen “Casino” too many times.

    • nategearhart - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:23 AM

      “too many times”? That’s unpossible!

  16. willclarkgameface - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:26 AM

    The only way to fix this – and it’s just too damn late because Bud wanted to rush through getting the fucking collective bargaining agreement finished to make sure 1994 didn’t happen again, looking like the big stud that he is – is to have a low bar spending minimum that ALL teams need to follow. The luxury tax (the fake salary cap) may work, but the lower end of the spectrum needs to be addressed.

    Why didn’t the owners that make money hand over fist pipe in with this idea when there was talk about their money being shipped to the crooks in Pittsburgh and Miami?

    Their lawyers and other representation failed on this big time giving them absolutely NO bitching leverage when Loria works within the system to pocket money and tear his team apart, killing competition in the NL East and tightening things up in the AL East.

    These owners are fucking imbeciles.

    • cur68 - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:57 AM

      Not a bad idea ‘gameface, but you ask the owners to commit to spending a minimum amount of money. They would never see how that would help them. Not till Jeff Loria showed them so graphically. What they’d see is that HAD to spend beyond what they might have wanted. I can’t see Lew Wolff and pals agreeing to a spending floor. They so cheap they charge roaches rent.

  17. desertcanoe - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:52 AM

    So I hate Jeffrey Loria and love baseball as much as everyone else but…welcome to capitalism? He is maximizing his profits, isn’t he? Other owners have a different model as to how they’ll maximize profit for their investment, such as “fielding a good team so that people will come to games and buy stuff” but hey, he showed with the Expos that he’s pretty good at making incredible quantities of cash for very little of his own money. How much has he invested in this team? And what will he sell it for? Brilliant. Disgusting but brilliant.

    You’re wanting him to base his decision-making on the best interests of baseball, or the Miami community, or some such public good. That’s not how capitalism works. People are supposed to be selfish. Are we shocked that it leads to nasty consequences for others? Walmart comes to town and the local stores for 30 miles around are shuttered, oil and coal companies’ entire business model is based on promoting global warming… In capitalism you’re not supposed to care – you’re supposed to maximize returns for shareholders. Well, he’s his own shareholder

    You only care if you’re made to by laws or economic consequences. Kudos to Old Gator for not attending games but the reality is that he makes his money whether anyone goes to games or not. He’ll make enough from revenue sharing to cover his ongoing costs. And then when he sells the team he’ll get top dollar because the new stadium has undoubtedly dramatically increased the value to potential buyers.Well, he’s his own shareholder and he seems to be doing just fine.

    The owners not sitting with him…we’ll see if social shunning is sufficient enough of a sanction for him to give up the hundreds of millions he’s making by shedding contracts and keeping team value (staduim). Doubt it
    .
    Let me be clear again, I DESPISE the man. But hey, he’s pretty much just being all-American, isn’t he? Isn’t he a “captain of industry?” Didn’t just have someone run for Prez whose main qualification was that he was really good at exactly this kind of thing?

    There will be “hobby” owners out there like Mark Cuban, boys with toys. But for the rest, it’s a business, a very lucrative one. I think it’s bloody brilliant to hold the taxpayers of S Florida over a cliff and threaten, then get them to build a ritzy stadium, then make it look like he cared by buying players (with back-loaded contracts!) and then dump them all. What was that team value 3 years ago? Not too high, I’ll bet. What was it 3 weeks ago? Much higher with the new stadium. What is it today? Probably a little higher than it was 3 weeks ago because there are no expensive contracts on the books. Great business man. Terrible citizen. Welcome to the USA.

    • cur68 - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:07 PM

      I think one of us doesn’t understand how the free market works. I always thought Capitalism was about growing your business and improving your product to attract more sales and drive the need for your product. The better product out perform the poorer ones and gets a bigger share of the profits. What Loria did was game and damage the system. He lined his own pockets in the process. That’s not Capitalism or the free market. That’s destroying brand integrity for a short term gain and hurting the over all performance of the product for the business itself in the free market. In a survival of the fittest paradigm the other predators get together and kill the predator that poisoned the water supply that benefitted the prey animals. Just because the poisoner got tons of good eats from all the carcasses he created does not make him a successful predator. Rather it makes him a very poor one. He’s just wiped out the food chain. Loria hasn’t wiped out the food chain but he’s made life very difficult for some very big fish.

      • kiwicricket - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:28 PM

        I completely agree also. All Loria has to do is reasonably fake trying to be competitive like several other owners, while rake in incredible amounts of money. He went the other route of not even bothering to pretend and will rake in a larger incredible amount of money.
        But at the end of the day, it’s not really survival of the fittest. The average guy with a store on the corner survives like that. MLB owners are just operating a giant store virtually guaranteed to make large sums of money no matter how badly they rape the system or fuck up. Just look at McCourt. The owners are pissed because it brings heat, fans hate it because it is spelled out even more clearly who’s pockets you line by consuming the product.

      • desertcanoe - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:38 PM

        Sorrry, I posted this below when I meant to put it as a reply. New to this. Try again…

        Capitalism is about making money. There are various ways to do it. You describe one model that has worked very well for a number of buisnesses. Loria’s not using your model. His track record and the current evidence is that his model works extremely well. He’s maximizing short term value and then getting out. Sorta like strip mining. What does he care about poisoning the water as long as he gets out before he has to drink from it?

        To take the analogy a step farther, he has a business model that flourishes in toxic water. He probably doesn’t even have to sell out to make money! He doesn’t need ticket sales to make money. He can make a profit off revenue sharing. And he can make hundreds of millions from selling the team.

        Damn smart. This idea that somehow capitalism leads to the greater good is a nice Ayn Rand bedtime story and is currently the American civic religion but just because we wanna think it’s so doesn’t make it so

        Ah, my last comment is kinda harsh. Sorry about that. But I do think that we tend to have some ideal model of how capitalism works for the guy running the corner store that doesn’t apply to how it works in the world today when people move huge quanities of money with no civic consequences.

      • dcpowergator - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:39 PM

        Great points cur. MLB is NOT anything approximating a free market. It is a cabal, a closed-end oligopoly with almost insurmountable barriers to entry even if a team is for sale (i.e., you first have to be vetted by Cadillac Bud and then the other 31 owners). This is a private club, not a free market. Basic tenets of capitalism do not apply here and have not applied here for generations. People who join the club should adhere to the rules, both written and unwritten. Gaming this system via lies, subterfuge, neglect, threats and indifference is not a celebration of capitalism, it’s an indictment of it.

        MLB and the owners are also to blame for not writing in rules to prevent this from happening when they enacted the revenue sharing system. Then again, you cannot successfully predict and account for every possible outcome and I am sure they thought that they could prevent people who would do something like this from gaining access into this club in the first place. Obviously, they thought wrong.

      • desertcanoe - Nov 15, 2012 at 1:28 PM

        Hey dcgator, I totally agree that MLB isn’t anything approaching a free market. But neither is anything else. I think a large part of our difference in perspectives comes from your and cur’s use of “free market” and “capitalism” as interchangeable terms. I’d say that “free market” is a texbook construction, not found in the real world. When we use the “map” of a free market to try to understand the real-life “territory” of a capitalist system we commit the error of mistaking an idealized map for the real world. It helps us understand some things if we pretend that systems operate as a free market. But we miss an awful lot if we push the analogy too far.

        So baseball doesn’t operate as a “free market.” Nothing does. Every capitalist operates inside of certain parameters. As dc points out, the system is gamed. As are all economic systems. And Loria has figured out a very efficient way to work inside the boundaries of this one.

        dc says “People who join the club should adhere to the rules, both written and unwritten. Gaming this system via lies, subterfuge, neglect, threats and indifference is not a celebration of capitalism, it’s an indictment of it.” Hey, I couldn’t have said it better, it totally IS an indictment of capitalism. Let’s parse this out with Loria.

        People who join the club should adhere to the rules, both written – he has, hasn’t he?

        and unwritten. – why? That’s not very capitalist, is it? How does that maximize profits?

        Gaming this system via lies, subterfuge, neglect, threats and indifference is not a celebration of capitalism, it’s an indictment of it. – yep. But that is, in part, how capitalism works. The only people who don’t game the system are those who either a) don’t have the power to, or b) aren’t aware of ways to, or c) those who decide to operate by morals instead of by the first law of a corporation, which is to maximize shareholder value.

        As for the people who choose to act according to the unwritten (and hence unenforceable) rules…kudos to them. I hope my sons marry one of you. But we shouldn’t be surprised by a system whose purpose is entirely peripheral to “morals” to end up being amoral.

        If I remember correctly, the founding Rockefeller couldn’t go out in public without a security detail because he was so hated for his practices. But he made a little bit of money. So the owners can deny him a seat at the cool kids’ table but he’s gonna make a little money.

        There is no “morals clause” for participating in capitalism. All Loria did was operate for short-term gain. That’s not against the law. And it does appear to be highly profitable.

        If we want it any different, the answer is…regulation? Is that what I hear the free marketeers suggesting?

      • cur68 - Nov 15, 2012 at 1:47 PM

        I take your point, and its a good one Desertcanoe. Loria’s within the rules of his ecosystem. But, if we can accept that the MLB Owners operate like a hunting pack with their chosen non owner leader Selig fronting them, then the the business model that Loria uses encourages the other big predators in this ecosystem to gang up on him. He’s hurting them, one way or another. In this case one of the hunting pack (Loria) just made the prey (Florida baseball fans) really scarce while building up one of the supporting cast (Roger’s Media) in a division featuring 2 of the pack’s premiere hunters (John Henry & The Steinbrenners). Meanwhile he wins no friends in his own league by emboldening his divisional rivals while simultaneously making it harder for everyone to get some of that which they desire most: a new publicly funded stadium. Its a poor pack predator that does that.

        In my opinion its always a bad move to piss off anyone named “Steinbrenner”.

    • kiwicricket - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:18 PM

      That really does sum up my exact feelings. Well done.

    • indaburg - Nov 15, 2012 at 1:29 PM

      Your comment wasn’t too harsh. I was nodding the entire time I read it. It was a well written indictment and the sad truth. Welcome to America. Cheers.

    • stex52 - Nov 15, 2012 at 1:32 PM

      It’s not free market capitalism in any case. Baseball operates under a government-santioned monopoly. The antitrust exemption gives these guys pretty much free reign. That is what really needs to be done away with.

  18. dannymac17 - Nov 15, 2012 at 11:57 AM

    GOD i hate Jeff Loria

    Someone please Pete Rose this sleeze ball from the MLB.

    I have no horse in the race, but get this dude the f*** outta here.

  19. serbingood - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:02 PM

    Corporations are people my friend. Loria is a people. He is just using the Bain way of running a business. Buy it, get suckers to invest in it (a new stadium) strip it of all assets and then sell the shell of the business or take it into bankruptcy. The only thing Loria can’t do it offshore it to China. Why are people surprised at Loria? He is a person with a track record, just like Bain.

  20. southpaw2k - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:15 PM

    For years, I thought Jeff Loria and the owner of the Philadelphia Eagles (Jeffrey Lurie) were the same guy since their names were so similar and got them confused. I’d be willing to bet there are plenty other people who still think they are the same guy and hate them both for that reason. If that”s the case, even Lurie probably has a reason to hate Loria via guilt by association.

  21. desertcanoe - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:28 PM

    Capitalism is about making money. There are various ways to do it. You describe one model that has worked very well for a number of buisnesses. Loria’s not using your model. His track record and the current evidence is that his model works extremely well. He’s maximizing short term value and then getting out. Sorta like strip mining. What does he care about poisoning the water as long as he gets out before he has to drink from it?

    To take the analogy a step farther, he has a business model that flourishes in toxic water. He probably doesn’t even have to sell out to make money! He doesn’t need ticket sales to make money. He can make a profit off revenue sharing. And he can make hundreds of millions from selling the team.

    Damn smart. This idea that somehow capitalism leads to the greater good is a nice Ayn Rand bedtime story and is currently the American civic religion but just because we wanna think it’s so doesn’t make it so.

  22. craigbhill - Nov 15, 2012 at 12:33 PM

    Selig needs to kibosh this trade “for the good of baseball”, which in so doing will force Loria to sell. Period end. By allowing this trade, Loria remains perched like a vulture over that franchise for another decade.

    Baseball should encourage the Rays to move to a city that will love them—Buffalo, or Sacramento, or Portland or ???—and is stuck with Miami until that stadium becomes decrepit. Maybe the next globally-warmed killer hurricane will gut the staidum and allow MLB to force the Marlins to move as well. Will they do any of this? Doubtful. They’re doubtful of almost any move that makes sense.

  23. 1historian - Nov 16, 2012 at 7:21 AM

    panem et circenses

  24. tonyz6060chevy - Nov 17, 2012 at 12:14 AM

    this is the era of the “Weasel Owners!”

  25. jjpileggi - Nov 17, 2012 at 12:54 PM

    In a free market, Luria is entitled to run his team the way he wants, within the Baseball Basic Agreement and the CBA. But, fans have the ability to not buy tickets or watch TV, and in this case, they should make liberal use of that ability. And the cautionary note for metro areas around the country is that contributing public funds to franchises for stadiums that promise enlightened investment in winning is anything but a sure bet.

    John Pileggi

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