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OK, forget what I said about Bonds and Clemens maybe getting in the Hall after all

Nov 30, 2012, 5:17 PM EDT

Roger Clemens

A couple of data points made me think, hey, Bonds’ and Clemens’  Hall of Fame case may not be as bleak as everyone things, but the AP has taken a straw poll, and it’s not all that optimistic:

With steroid scandals still very much on the minds of longtime members of the Baseball Writers’ Association of America as they cast their ballots, the trio failed to muster even 50 percent support among the 112 voters contacted by the AP — nearly one-fifth of those eligible to choose. Candidates need 75 percent for election.

You figure the AP has better contacts with active writers than those old legacy dudes who get Hall of Fame votes because they covered baseball for a season or two back in the 60s. In my personal experience, active writers would be more likely than older, inactive writers to give Bonds and Clemens the benefit of the doubt, so this does not look promising at all.

Someone get Nate Silver on the horn and boil a pot of coffee.  We need to get to the bottom of this.

  1. cur68 - Nov 30, 2012 at 5:29 PM

    I would suggest if you are boiling coffee you are having terrible coffee. Stop that. It should be a crime to boil coffee. Anyhow I think DrunkNateSilver is who need on this job. He has THE BEST predictions…

    …DrunkNateSilver says “no matter what, Bagwell’s gonna get screwed.”

    • historiophiliac - Nov 30, 2012 at 5:57 PM

      I have it on good authority that drunknatesilver is in the BSOHL, so he is up to the task!

      • cur68 - Nov 30, 2012 at 6:04 PM

        I’m glad DNS is in the discussion. He deserves consideration.

      • historiophiliac - Nov 30, 2012 at 7:07 PM

        DNS already knows if he’s getting in.

    • pjmarn6 - Dec 1, 2012 at 6:44 PM

      Okay Craig Calcaterra gave his opinion that Baseball’s Hall of Fame should be changed to the Hall of Shame in order to let in cheats. Then he wrote an article half taking that back. Now when he KNOWS that cheating is not being condoned by the baseball writers who vote for the players he does a back flip and states ooooopppppsssss. In other words he doesn’t want to maintain his position.

      Craig if you had your articles ghost written (I am sure that you would be hard put to find someone so absolutely wrong to write them) and you received a raise or award for the ghost written stories would you return the overpayments and return the award?

      What difference is there if you cheated or the drug users cheated? In my businesses, we bend over backwards to make the clients come back and use our services and buy our products. We “KNOW” how important it is to make clients who come back and spend money with us. We could not exist without repeat customers. If we were to start cheating out customers, we would soon be out of business. But “YOU” say the baseball players who cheated to get higher salaries should also be singled out and award more awards because they cheated. Really are your morals and ethics that fucked up that is how you think and that is what you believe?

      • cur68 - Dec 1, 2012 at 9:13 PM

        pj: You must be new here or this is an epic, epic reading fail.
        Can you show us all where Craig said the things you are claiming he said? I’d love to see that.

        Insofar as I can tell his position is: The HOF has already admitted cheaters and people of poor moral character. PED use is, in many respects, much LESS worse than some of the other stuff people who are in the HOF have gotten away with. Bonds & Clemens were the best of their generation. They did no more than many, many, many other HOFers in order to win and they fell well short of what some in the hall have got up to. Even leaving aside the “Steroid Years” of both players, they had HOF careers. Neither has ever been suspended for a failed drug test or officially censured in any way by MLB. They deserve to be in the HOF.

        Nothing in the above article gainsays that. It is rather a re-think on his previous article that Bonds & Clemens might get in after all because a few writers seemed to have softened their stance. In fact it appears the sentiment of the writers is the exact opposite of what Craig thought, hence this piece explaining that he might have been wrong thinking Bonds & Clemens would get in. He isn’t changing his opinion of IF they should get in but rather WILL THEY get in.

        As for the whole “Hall of Shame” screed; well what is it with the likes of Cobb & Yawkey in it? “The Hall of Asshole Women Beating Racists & Child Molester Enablers Who Had Stuff To Do With Baseball”?

        I award you no thumbs up. I award you my first thumb click down in a month.

        Good Day.

  2. Francisco (FC) - Nov 30, 2012 at 5:36 PM

    I agree, boiling a pot of Coffee… that’s terrible burned coffee…

    • Old Gator - Dec 1, 2012 at 12:52 AM

      When was the last time you made coffee while you were out camping? The trick is to use bear piss instead of creek water.

  3. sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo - Nov 30, 2012 at 6:19 PM

    Boiling coffee > keeping Bonds and Clemens out of the HoF.

  4. adenzeno - Nov 30, 2012 at 6:21 PM

    Way back in the day, most people had a percolator pot for coffee, and it had to boil to work. That is where the phrase originates, unless you subscribe to boiling the water then throwing the coffee into the pot of boiling water as in camp coffee.

    • cur68 - Nov 30, 2012 at 6:40 PM

      According to most coffee experts: Coffee in a percolator is inevitably boiled several times over, leading to significant over extraction and the tarry bitterness which boiling produces. A percolator should be your last option for making coffee: boiled coffee sucks.

      • historiophiliac - Nov 30, 2012 at 7:08 PM

        what a wussy beaver thing to say

      • paperlions - Nov 30, 2012 at 7:46 PM

        Exactly. Even a coffee sock >>>>>>>>>>> percolator. Anything that gets the water to 200F + is bad at making coffee.

    • hojo20 - Nov 30, 2012 at 10:21 PM

      Way back in the day? I perked a pot on Sunday.

  5. charlutes - Nov 30, 2012 at 6:22 PM

    Champion another cause already, who cares about these juicers? in or out, I don’t care. they are still great, and they still cheated.

    • Old Gator - Dec 1, 2012 at 12:53 AM

      We’re not discussing juice here. We’re discussing coffee.

      Anyway, if it isn’t acai, I don’t drink juice. It screws with my PH.

  6. cackalackyank - Nov 30, 2012 at 7:13 PM

    Hey, remind me again, how many do they need to stay on the ballot?

    • raysfan1 - Nov 30, 2012 at 7:38 PM

      5%

  7. scotttheskeptic - Nov 30, 2012 at 7:54 PM

    @Charlutes, agree to a point. Craig articulated the other day what has been crawling around my brain – these guys were good. Good enough on talent to be HoF, so vote them in – eventually. Clemens durability without substances especially clouds my mind. The plaques should note any and all questions about career statistics, ya know, being a museum.

  8. dinklespiel - Nov 30, 2012 at 8:07 PM

    And meanwhile the best player of all, Pete Rose, has to sit it out while the cheaters of the game get considered for induction.

    Shame on baseball.

  9. baloneyjohn - Nov 30, 2012 at 8:07 PM

    These guys are cheats. Whats so hard to see that.
    Keep them out

    • indaburg - Dec 1, 2012 at 7:50 AM

      Half the people in the hall are cheats. Should we kick them out?

  10. indaburg - Nov 30, 2012 at 8:28 PM

    What sanctimonious pricks. Like Jenkins from the SF Chronicle said, it’s too late to turn Cooperstown into a church. These guys were the best of their era and they belong in the hall.

    P.S. Boiled coffee tastes like Starbucks. Bitter, bad coffee.

    • Old Gator - Dec 1, 2012 at 12:54 AM

      Coffee people are getting as obnoxious as wine people.

      • indaburg - Dec 1, 2012 at 7:46 AM

        My mom (who always called American coffee “agua sucia”) gave me my first cup at age 5, not unusual among old school Latinos. First thing she taught me: do not boil the coffee.

        What’s baseball’s stance on caffeine as a PED? I’ve gotten some of my best workouts after caffeine usage.

      • historiophiliac - Dec 1, 2012 at 9:35 AM

        Judging from Hamy’s experience this year, they are okay with the caffeine used injudiciously.

  11. historiophiliac - Nov 30, 2012 at 8:40 PM

    Hey, what’s with all the perco-haters on here? That’s how I make coffee when I go camping. It’s better than some Sanka bullshit.

    • indaburg - Dec 1, 2012 at 8:20 AM

      Camping is a different animal. No one is expecting haute cuisine.

      • historiophiliac - Dec 1, 2012 at 9:49 AM

        I was expecting you to say “the Spanish Inquisition.”

      • indaburg - Dec 1, 2012 at 10:32 AM

        LOL That would been much funnier. Gotta love Monty Python.

  12. cackalackyank - Nov 30, 2012 at 9:38 PM

    Ok so I guess they will get the 5% to stay on….

  13. coloradothistle - Nov 30, 2012 at 10:39 PM

    Coffee pot? Leaded or unleaded?

    • historiophiliac - Dec 1, 2012 at 9:46 AM

      It took forever to get my dad to give up his percolator. Even now,he has an automatic drip but refuses to use the timer feature because the coffee will get stale overnight. The fresher the sludge for him, the better. For example, there was that time he went to Switzerland on business….suffice to say, after the first day, they brought his coffee in a big cup. And, he draws the line at a press (I don’t think I disagree with him there).

      I like leaded and unleaded myself.

  14. philliesblow - Nov 30, 2012 at 11:24 PM

    I wonder what the reaction would be if Bonds, Clemens, etc failed to get even 5% to stay on the ballot. Don’t think it isn’t possible. Sounds like most writers don’t want them in on the first ballot as a slap on the wrist, but I’m sure they think enough will vote for them to stay on.

    In 2001, a player worthy of much HOF consideration dropped off in his first year because nearly all the writers assumed others would vote for him but they didn’t consider him a 1st ballot player.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/7503/the-bbwaas-worst-mistake

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8856

  15. lostsok - Nov 30, 2012 at 11:47 PM

    Wow. Boiled coffee has more of a chance at the hall than Clemens or Bonds.

    I demand an * by boiled coffee!

  16. brewcrewfan54 - Dec 1, 2012 at 12:32 AM

    Coffee sucks. In general.

    • historiophiliac - Dec 1, 2012 at 9:38 AM

      What? Kahlua.

  17. csilojohnson - Dec 1, 2012 at 9:56 AM

    Baseball* Football* Cycling* Golf* Patriots*
    Why are they fighting the status quo?

  18. csilojohnson - Dec 1, 2012 at 9:58 AM

    Coffee is more damaging then some of these PEDS being used. Unless were talking decaf here.

  19. noozehound - Dec 1, 2012 at 11:01 AM

    all you’re saying is that YOU want a vote. a no talent blogger who just bitches and whines but has an over inflated ego and thinks he’s a real journalist.

  20. joshtown81 - Dec 1, 2012 at 2:45 PM

    I’m 31, and grew up with Bonds, Clemens, etc just being utterly dominant. I get your argument Craig, in that well, these guys weren’t really cheating, because it wasn’t illegal. So if a lot of players were doing, it sort of levels the playing field back out. But what I DO have a problem is both of them continuing to thumb their noses at the game, almost in defiance, when overwhelming evidence seems to point to their guilt. I feel like argument of “well they were in before-hand” holds some water, but this “holier-than-thou” thing they have going is a real turn off. Coming clean goes a long way in getting back into peoples good graces, and I think it would do both of them a world of good.

  21. jayscarpa - Dec 1, 2012 at 4:46 PM

    By the time I’ve gotten to the bottom of the page I’ve forgotten most of what you’ve written – so no worries.

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