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HOF voters: choose Mike Piazza or accuse him of using steroids

Dec 1, 2012, 12:31 AM EDT

Mike Piazza AP

Jeff Bagwell gave the Hall of Fame voters an easy way out. Sure, his body of work leaves him qualified for Cooperstown based on the standards for first basemen, but he didn’t bat .300 for his career or hit 500 homers. His one MVP season came in strike-shortened 1994. That’s also the only year he led the league in a Triple Crown category.

Thus, a Hall of Fame voter can look at Bagwell’s record and say it’s not quite Hall of Fame worthy, all without getting into the messy steroid issue.

Will they be able to do the same for Mike Piazza? A career .308/.377/.545 hitter with 427 homers in 16 seasons, Piazza is pretty obviously the greatest offensive catcher the game has ever seen. His 143 OPS+ is well in front of any other player to catch at least 70 percent of his games. Joe Mauer is next at 135, and he’s yet to enter his decline phase. Mickey Cochrane is third at 129, followed by Bill Dickey and Johnny Bench.

Of course, Piazza’s defensive reputation was shaky at its best, dreadful at its worst. But that was mostly (almost entirely?) due to his arm. It doesn’t seem like he ever held back his his teams. Here are the NL ERA ranks from all of Piazza’s staffs in his years as a team’s primary catcher:

1993 Dodgers: 3rd
1994 Dodgers: 9th
1995 Dodgers: 2nd
1996 Dodgers: 1st
1997 Dodgers: 2nd
1998 Mets: 4th
1999 Mets: 5th
2000 Mets: 3rd
2001 Mets: 5th
2002 Mets: 5th
2005 Mets: 3rd
2006 Padres: 1st

So, how bad of a defensive catcher could he have been? In 12 years as a primary catcher, his pitchers finished in the top third of the league in ERA 11 times.

(And whether it’s worth pointing out or not, the 1994 Dodgers, the one odd ball on the list, had a 3.97 ERA with Piazza catching and a 5.28 ERA with Carlos Hernandez and Tom Prince behind the plate.)

All of this has been a long-winded way of saying there’s absolutely no way to justify leaving Piazza out of the Hall of Fame based on performance. We can argue whether Piazza is inner-circle or not, but he’s certainly a Hall of Famer according the numbers. Still, I’m guessing he’ll be left off 35-45 percent of the ballots when the votes are counted in January, despite never having failed a drug test.

And for that reason, I’m challenging Hall of Fame voters; if you don’t vote for him, call him out for using steroids. Say “I’m not voting for Piazza because I think he was a cheater.” Preferably present some evidence if you have it, but whether you do or not, make the reason clear. No wishy-washy stuff. There’s no excuse for leaving him off the ballot otherwise.

  1. Old Gator - Dec 1, 2012 at 1:00 AM

    Mike Piazza used steroids! He has acne where his scratch marks ought to be.

    There, happy now?

    Okay, okay, I’m not a Hall of Fame voter – but someone has to push that first pebble off the mountaintop, no?

    • jl9830 - Dec 1, 2012 at 2:51 PM

      Oh, back acne is evidence of PED usage now? I guess 100% of teenage boys are juicing. Ever attribute that to being in a sweaty locker room all the time, rather than injecting steroids into his butt?

      • cltjump - Dec 1, 2012 at 10:05 PM

        Sarcasm is lost on you, my friend.

      • Old Gator - Dec 2, 2012 at 1:03 AM

        So, apparently, is, uh…subtlety. I guess he didn’t get the scratch marks comment either. Ah well. If not for idiots, we’d have to do our own manual labor.

    • 78mu - Dec 1, 2012 at 9:47 PM

      If the HOF voters are going to eliminate admitted or highly suspected steroid users and then eliminate guys that looked like they used steroids and players whispered about using we’ll be left with skinny middle infielders that had trouble hitting their weight.

      Is it to late to vote Ray Oyler into the HOF? How about Fernando Vina? Whoops, forget Vina. I guess we’ll have to look forward to Oyler and Dal Maxville to give their induction speeches.

  2. iamjimmyjack - Dec 1, 2012 at 1:01 AM

    He is a hof. And he needs to go in with a dodger cap on his head. I’m sick of these hof voters hiding behind their vote. Come out publicly and tell us why or why not ur voting for certain ppl.

    • chrisny3 - Dec 1, 2012 at 10:25 AM

      Agree with you with the exception that Piazza should wear a Mets cap in the HOF. He went to the WS with the Mets, had his most iconic moment with the Mets (the post-9/11 HR), and from a pure stats perspective, was equally productive with the Mets as he was with the Dodgers.

      I’m not sure the voters really hide behind their votes. If asked, they will usually come right out and tell you why they did or didn’t vote for someone. This is Piazza’s first year of eligibility, however, so it will be interesting to see what happens with him. Unlike Clemens, Bonds, and some others, there is absolutely no credible solid evidence that Piazza did steroids. (Unless one considers back acne credible evidence, and I don’t.) Yet there are whispers, gossip and innuendo. But that’s all we have for Piazza, so IMO, he deserves the benefit of the doubt. As do all players for whom no solid evidence exists.

      I predict that out of those players for whom a cloud exists, Piazza is definitely the most “likely” to get in on the first ballot this year. (Not necessarily the most worthy of that bunch, but the most “likely.”) And if he doesn’t get in this winter, he will not miss by much. Because the cloud over Piazza is but a mere wisp compared to the dark storm clouds over Clemens and Bonds Piazza will at least get the most votes in that group. But I predict he will get in this winter. Or just miss by a hair.

      • stercuilus65 - Dec 6, 2012 at 3:00 AM

        From a pure stats perspective Piazza had an OPS .966 with the Dodgers vs .915 with the Mets and an OPS+ of 160 with the Dodgers vs 136 with the Mets so no he wasn’t as productive with the Mets as he was with the Dodgers.

  3. Glenn - Dec 1, 2012 at 1:43 AM

    I am absolutely sure that the skinny college first baseman, who was baseball’s 1988 1390th player picked in the draft, was a natural Hall of Famer. No way that he used PEDs to develop, at that late stage, to become one of the greatest catchers of all time. It was the 90’s after all. He must be one of those genetic freaks who gains lots of muscle mass and acne as an adult.

    • genericcommenter - Dec 1, 2012 at 1:34 PM

      When I graduated from high school I was 5’9, 170 lbs. When I was 20, I was 6′, 200. When, I was 30..well I put on some ( mostly bad) weight.

      I also had back acne.. I still have a little bit at 32. I have never used steroids.

      If I look at pictures from every male I know, including those in my family that I know have never used steroids, EVERYONE’S Body changed significantly from 18 to 25 and later, including facial and body thickening.

      There are a few guys who are freaks of nature and never change. I also recall some classmates who had growth spurts around 13 and towered over everyone else but never grew again. Most of them are bald borderline-midgets now ( when you are a shapeless 5′ 13 year-old the 5’8 guys with muscle-tone and beards look like giants).

      I guess all these guys ( I wont even get into girls- ask a 30 year old woman to show you her high school pics. You won’t believe it’s the same person) who don’t recognize that bodies change well into adulthood are either chicken-legged “hard gainers” whose bodies never grew or guys whose body parts stopped growing in Jr. high. Or most likely, they just lack any awareness.

      • Glenn - Dec 1, 2012 at 6:11 PM

        Through college, Mike Piazza pretty much showed little (relative) talent. He was drafted late as a favor to his father, a friend of Tommy Lasorda. Otherwise, he would not have been drafted at all. I suppose it is possible that he was a really, really late bloomer, but that seems a lot less likely than his using PEDs. There is a big difference between filling out or gaining a little weight and going from a non-prospect to an all-time great.

        Do I really know if Mike Piazza used PEDs? No I don’t. I just won’t be surprised when it comes out. I personally know that one Hall of Fame candidate used steroids. He is in the same category as Piazza in that he is a suspect but was never caught. He may get in, he may not, but I know that he was a PED user and would not be a hall of famer without them.

        I really hate all of this stuff. I have no idea how I would vote on most of the guys from this era.

      • tontoepstein - Dec 2, 2012 at 4:24 PM

        Are you delusional, or what. Some of these comments slay me.

    • hisgirlgotburrelled - Dec 1, 2012 at 9:01 PM

      Pretty ignorant; you have zero knowledge of what you’re talking about. First of all, how many players when they’re 18 are “natuarl hall of famers?” Second, he was hitting monster homeruns in high school. Maybe he wasn’t great enough to get drafted out of high school, but he was very good. I am not at all saying no one has hard evidence of him taking steroids so that means he didn’t. But like some other ignorant guy who commented in the last article about Mike Piazza that Frank Thomas was skinny when he was 19, it is flat out wrong to say he didn’t turn into a strong hitter until he got to the majors and started juicing. Everyone natually grows, especially when you are on a weight lifting and nutritional program like in college and the pros. Just saying someone is guilty of taking steroids solely based on being a late draft pick and muscle growth is ridiculous… For a bit of info of what he did do in high school.
      A co-worker was on the same team and my pitching coach in high school faced him several times. The stories I’ve heard are of monster homeruns, not that they couldn’t believe what he turned into.

      • tontoepstein - Dec 2, 2012 at 4:47 PM

        Seriously, dude, you’re clueless. He put on 20 pounds of muscle in 1998, “coincidentally” when he was shooting for the largest contract in baseball.

        I’m an old dude, I took steroids in the 70s, before Ben Johnson, before anybody even knew what a steroid was or what human growth hormone was. This was back when Muscle and Fitness magazine was nothing like it is now. They actually used to print recommended steroid cycles in the magazine. Really.

        To me it’s like spotting a toupee, I know it when I see it. Piazza is as guilty as sin.

        If you want to live in the clouds, that’s up to you, but you’re wrong.

      • hisgirlgotburrelled - Dec 2, 2012 at 5:43 PM

        So you since you took steroids then you can spot anyone that has?

        In the 5 full seasons before ’98 he hit .337/.401/.583 with 167 HR’s and 526 RBI.

        Like I said, I don’t have proof he didn’t take steroids. But no one else has proof he did, and your proof is by far the worst.

    • albertmn - Dec 2, 2012 at 1:18 PM

      So, Glenn, even if he used PEDs, how would that have made him hit .308 with a .377 OBP for his career? I would see an argument for PEDs based on the power. But, even if he hadn’t hit for power, a catcher with that BA and OBP would have lasted a long time in MLB, and would have potential to be a HOF even without a few extra HRs.

  4. raysfan1 - Dec 1, 2012 at 1:56 AM

    I say we tie him to an anchor and throw him in a lake. If he floats anyway, then we know he’s a witch and can burn him at the stake.

    Makes as much sense as accusing someone of steroid use based on being a good hitter and, according to Murray Chass, having had pimples on his back.

    • capsboy - Dec 1, 2012 at 2:12 AM

      An easier method; if he weighs the same as a duck, he’s a witch.

    • somethingishappeningsomehwere - Dec 1, 2012 at 9:16 AM

      BBWA Writer: How do you know he’s a witch?
      Murray Chass: Well, he turned me into newt!
      BBWA Writer: A newt?
      Murray Chass: I got better.

  5. kappy32 - Dec 1, 2012 at 1:58 AM

    I’m telling you, HOF voters are a joke; I just wish that I had a medium like you to get it out because I have a lot to say. In short, regarding Piazza, he is a no-brainer first-ballot hall of famer. Before Piazza, Fisk was widely considered the best offensive catcher ever. Piazza made Fisk’s number look like child’s play. I have been a lifelong Mets fan & it was an absolute privilege to watch Mike play. I don’t know if he ever used steroids, but I do know that there hasn’t been an iota of evidence put forth to make me even question whether he did. You are 100% right; if the clowns leave him off the ballot & he doesn’t get in then they better come forth with a plausible excuse as to why they did & it better not be the usual, factless conjecture. Hank Aaron used amphetamines when he was a player & admitted as much in his autobiography. If Hank Aaron didn’t have that pick-me-up, would his stats look the same? They’d sure be HOF-worthy, but I’m sure he wouldn’t have as many HRs & RBI he retired with. The sad thing is that a majority of these clowns who call themselves writers & are implausibly given the obligation to bestow the greatest award in this great game upon a player don’t even know that Aaron is an admitted PED / amphetamine user. These jokes often refer to Aaron when identifying a great, “clean” player. Whether it was racism, war, greenies, steroids, etc., baseball has always had a period where one could argue that there should be an *asterisk next to a player’s stat line. The bottom line is that we went through The Steroid Era in baseball & while it may not be the best of baseball, it was certainly an entertaining time. These “cheaters” saved the game of baseball when it was in a drug-induced coma after the ’95 strike. These “cheaters” are the ONLY reason why these “writers” still have a ballot to vote on. The players who are up for induction should be recognized as being the best players of The Steroid Era & enshrined in Cooperstown. It is not the job of the voters to punish these guys for their transgressions; their job is evaluate & determine the best-of-the-best during their respective playing careers. I am 100% sure that at least some of these “writers” ripped a line of coke or popped an Aderall to have the energy to work through a deadline; I’m 100% sure that at least a couple of these “writers” banged someone other than their wives or girlfriends at some point; I am 100% sure that these “writers” would not appreciate having their entire careers completely disregarded because of a past transgression. While I commend the non-users for abstaining from PEDs, I also think they’re stupid. I’ve said it a thousand times to anyone who asks: if it were me, I would’ve been on steroids as well.

    I truly feel that due to overreaching ambition of the current voters to punish suspected PED users, the entire HOF voting process needs to be overhauled. There are basically 4 entities that have an interest in who is & who isn’t inducted into the Hall: (1) MLB; (2) MLBPA; (3) BBWAA (writers); and (4) Hall of Famers / Veterans Committee. The writers are given way too much power to make a determination on behalf of all of them (I know the veterans committee has a vote later in the process). To fix what is clearly a problem, I have a solution. Each of the 4 aforementioned entities should either vote or appoint a given number of representatives, say 5, to serve on “The Hall of Fame Induction Committee.” In order for a player to get inducted into the Hall of Fame, they must receive a 2/3 (two-thirds) vote from the entire Committee. Say each entity appoints 5 members, for 20 total, a player would need 14 votes to be inducted into Cooperstown. I know there are issues with this proposal, but it is better than what is currently in place. I am not comfortable with the current status quo & change is needed.

    • henryd3rd - Dec 1, 2012 at 11:25 AM

      Kappy32 baby! Now tell me how you really feel!

    • mazblast - Dec 1, 2012 at 5:37 PM

      I don’t recall anyone not in New England or Chicago saying Fisk was the greatest offensive catcher ever. IMO that honor belongs or belonged to Johnny Bench.

      • kappy32 - Dec 1, 2012 at 5:47 PM

        You’re right, my bad. I inexcusably confused the two.

  6. DiscountMescan - Dec 1, 2012 at 2:36 AM

    ^”What else floats besides wood?…”small pebbles.”

  7. jeffa43 - Dec 1, 2012 at 2:58 AM

    If Bagwell used steroids, his stats would be a hell of a lot better than Piazzas.
    That Alone crushes this story.

    At some point you have to say he is a victim of circumstance, unfairly judged, and he was clean.

    He plays in any other park he hits 600. 10 seasons in the dead air of the astrodome.

    I hope those who vote look into the whole body of work.

    30 100 100 100 7 years straight. Few did that, Ruth, Mays, Gehrig, pretty good company.

    297 1500 runs 1500 steaks, that would be rib eyes for you uneducated story writer.

    He is on the same pace as Dawson. If you are going to write a story, educate yourself.

    ROY MVP silver bats, gold glove, 1 team, 1 world series. Dominated a decade, a clear sign of a HOF.
    One of the best base runners of his time. Not to be confused with a base stealer.though he had 200.

    Class, integrity, a great teammate. Jeff Bagwell, a Hall of Famer.

    Glad I could clear that up for you.

    • lumpyf - Dec 1, 2012 at 10:03 AM

      You forgot one attribute. Cheater.

      • raysfan1 - Dec 1, 2012 at 11:14 AM

        …and your evidence of that is what? Because you think everyone who lifts a lot of weights in the gym automatically must be using steroids?

      • jeffa43 - Dec 1, 2012 at 1:26 PM

        So Bagwell was 3 points shy of 300 & 50 bombs short of 500.

        So your stupid arguement is, if he had 3 more hits per year, and 4 more home runs per year, then he is in?

        I am sure if he used roids he would have reached that and be ok in your eyes.

        You sound like a very uneducated fan, that writes like fox reports news.

      • raysfan1 - Dec 1, 2012 at 1:42 PM

        Not sure who you are replying to, jeffa43. Lumpyf called him a cheater. I called lumpyf on that because he has not a shred of evidence to back that up. You seem to think I was replying to you, and also misread what I posted, whereas I actually agree with you. Bagwell belongs in the HoF.

      • mazblast - Dec 1, 2012 at 5:38 PM

        Had Bagwell put up those numbers in a major media market, he’d be in already.

  8. Detroit Michael - Dec 1, 2012 at 6:43 AM

    There was a “with or without you” style analysis of Piazza’s defense in the Hardball Times Annual a few years back that pretty clearly indicated that Piazza’s defense as a catcher was decent, despite the reputation. Not that the BBWAA voters are likely to seek out evidence.

  9. jlilly67 - Dec 1, 2012 at 6:55 AM

    Damn straight you douche bag voters. Step out into the light or vote him in

  10. galewisli - Dec 1, 2012 at 8:58 AM

    I think it’s interesting how bad everyone thought (thinks) Piazza was defensively. There is no arguing that he was one of the worst at throwing out base runners. BUT, that is only one facet of catching (and though the most talked about, arguably one of the least important facets). What was Piazza good at (average or above) as a catcher? Handling a pitching staff, game calling, framing pitches, handling foul pop-ups, blocking pitches in the dirt, plays at the plate. Not every catcher can be a Molina (take your pick). But, all in all, Piazza was not as bad as everyone seems to remember.

    • jwbiii - Dec 1, 2012 at 10:25 AM

      It’s interesting that you should mention Molina. I’ve used Craig Wright’s reasoning from the Hardball Times Annual that you and Detroit Michael are referencing for some current catchers. Piazza, of course, did the easy to see, easy to measure part of being a catcher very poorly, but the balance of his other abilities brought him up to average. Yadier Molina, of course, controls the running game better than anyone in the game today and saves the Cardinals a fair number of runs every year. He gives about half of them back with his other abilities. Still deserves the Gold Gloves, though.

    • chrisny3 - Dec 1, 2012 at 10:32 AM

      Completely agree. While he did have a weak throwing arm, he was very good fielding his position, fielding pop-ups, and handling a pitching staff. The idea that he was weak defensively was overblown. It was a pure pleasure to have watched him play for so many years for the Mets.

  11. chill1184 - Dec 1, 2012 at 9:06 AM

    I agree if the voters are going to get on their high horses then they need to either put up or shut up. Of course with Piazza there is the “third” angle of rehashing the old “Is Mike Piazza gay?” bullshit again

  12. legacybroken - Dec 1, 2012 at 9:33 AM

    I can’t wait for the fireworks when Piazza is denied entry into the Hall but the good but by no means great Jack Morris does this year.

  13. csilojohnson - Dec 1, 2012 at 9:39 AM

    It should be cut and dry. If you fail a test your dealt with. If you pass all tests, leave them alone. If you think people are getting over the tests. It is the leagues responsibility to do better testing. The fight against steroid use has become a bigger hit to sport integrity then the use of steroids. Also a bigger hit to tax payers paying for these obsurd witch hunts.

    • lumpyf - Dec 1, 2012 at 10:09 AM

      OK Armstrong. What ever you say.

    • tontoepstein - Dec 2, 2012 at 5:02 PM

      What tests??? When he was clobbering home runs, there were no tests. What are you talking about.

  14. lumpyf - Dec 1, 2012 at 10:07 AM

    Piazza was drafted as a courtesy by the Dodgers in the 62nd round and he miraculously turns into the best hitting catcher ever. All by himself. Yeah right.

    • jl9830 - Dec 1, 2012 at 2:56 PM

      Yeah, that’s right.

  15. lumpyf - Dec 1, 2012 at 10:14 AM

    I wonder if some voters won’t vote for Piazza because he was rumored to be gay too? Of course, he brought that one on himself. When you live with a gay dude, dye your hair yellow and admit you listen to the Pet Shop Boys , well that’s pretty damning evidence. Of course, he found himself a beard, I mean wife and then the rumors died down.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Dec 1, 2012 at 12:23 PM

      I wonder if some voters won’t vote for Piazza because he was rumored to be gay too?

      If this is true, it’s 100x more offensive than the steroid rumors. The rest of your comment is awful as well.

    • raysfan1 - Dec 1, 2012 at 1:21 PM

      Anyone that prejudiced really needs to explain how homosexuality even affects baseball, let alone disqualifies someone from being in the HoF.

    • cur68 - Dec 2, 2012 at 1:09 AM

      Whether or not Mike Piazza is gay is of no concern to you or any HOF voter.

  16. dirtydrew - Dec 1, 2012 at 11:08 AM

    Since Nolan Ryan and Cal Ripkin are in, Steroids should not be an issue for any player.

    • raysfan1 - Dec 1, 2012 at 11:15 AM

      Please show me you evidence, or is this just more unsubstantiated innuendo?

      • raysfan1 - Dec 1, 2012 at 11:17 AM

        Your evidence. Darn PEDs aren’t helping me type better.

      • paperlions - Dec 1, 2012 at 12:11 PM

        The evidence against Piazza is the same as it is against Ryan or Ripken, isn’t it?

      • raysfan1 - Dec 1, 2012 at 12:53 PM

        Yes. I get so tired of people who immediately think anyone who has a good season, good career, or even just long career must be using steroids. At some level they must actually hate baseball and should quit following the game.

      • paperlions - Dec 1, 2012 at 1:06 PM

        I agree. So many people that rail against steroids but not against the PEDs (or other methods of cheating) of their childhood heros or “legends” of the game seem to like the nostalgia of baseball, but not baseball itself….so stop watching baseball and go re-watch the Ken Burns documentary.

  17. raysfan1 - Dec 1, 2012 at 11:40 AM

    One thing I think is somewhat interesting on the topic of HoF voters is that any newly anointed voters this year are the first who became BBWAA members “post-73*” since voters have to be members for 10 years before they can vote. This year’s rookie voters thus started in 2002, when we first started hearing about BALCO, etc. The rest, if they were active reporters, were in the clubhouses, etc, during the so-called steroid era. I remember one article about McGwire using androstenedione in 1998, but no anger until after 2001. (Androstenedione is a biologically active steroid, was banned for Olympic athletes, but was legally classified as a nutritional supplement in 1998, is his use wasn’t illegal.). Steroids were well known to be a problem in football and the Olympics, but nobody seemed to think to look into the issue in baseball in any depth, or turned a blind eye. It at least creates the appearance that the writers were either complicit in not reporting PED use or so caught up in being fans themselves that they failed to be competent journalists. 10+ years later, those same reporters are being judgmental toward the players despite being part of the problem.

  18. jeffa43 - Dec 1, 2012 at 1:51 PM

    Did you watch Bagwell play? Every douchebag with a computer and keyboard thinks that makes him a smart sportswriter.

    On D He took away the sac bunt for the first 10 years of his career.
    It’s those things that you almost never see today.

    1st to 3rd he was one of the best. You can ask opposing coaches if you want proof.
    (btw your proof of his use, its not as good as the proof of Bigfoot)

    Why did he walk over 100 times a year… He was feared!
    Why was he feared, because he won games with his bat, routinely.

    Don’t throw out bs about being a few hits short. There are intangibles that make that up and then some.

    Greatest Astro ever, Biggio will say if not for Bagwell he is not what he became.

  19. crazimitch - Dec 1, 2012 at 3:44 PM

    Do you know why most of you are average in your lives? Why you complain about how the rich don’t pay enough taxes and why your wives are fat or dumb or both? These things happen to you for two reasons. The first is because you’re dumb, maybe not 80 IQ dumb, but not smart enough to avoid being run over by the smart people around you. The second reason, which is highly correletad to the first, is because you are incapable of taking circumstantial evidence and turning it into a rational point of view. You think you need a ‘100% proven test’ or video or else there is no ‘proof’ or you need a smart person near you to tell you how to think.
    However, as i write this,I’m conflicted. I don’t want you to find Jesus and actually make it diificult to take you’re lunch money, of course i know better, that won’t ever happen. You’re dumb, your wife rides a scooter when you day trip to Disney, I’ll be taking you lunch money forever. Grow up, some players use Peds, some don’t. Stop worrying about who uses and worry about if your sport cares too liitle or too much about removing it from the game, then do what you can to change it.

  20. butchhuskey - Dec 1, 2012 at 7:18 PM

    There is no excuse for not voting Piazza and Bagwell into the hall.

  21. matthewstenberg - Dec 2, 2012 at 11:22 AM

    Well, you asked for baseless accusations, and Pat Caputo of the Morning Sun has obliged. With a Craig Biggio accusation thrown in for fun:

    • raysfan1 - Dec 2, 2012 at 12:55 PM

      He even threw in the Craig Biggio had teammates who cheated, so he must be a cheater too non sequitur. Nice.

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