Comments on: Bob Ryan’s curious Hall of Fame column

By: joerymi

joerymi — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:55:09 +0000

Either NO ONE of the steroid gets in OR all deserving members of the era get in. These writers want the HOF to ignore the steroid era because they were compliant in it!

By: braddavery

braddavery — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 21:14:10 +0000

Yes, please tell me what I can and can’t discuss. How dare I say something about the topic at hand in it’s own comment forum. What was I thinking.

By: Gamera the Brave

Gamera the Brave — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 21:02:42 +0000

Jesus, Brad – did Piazza do something to you personally?
You are bringing the same refrain to every HoF thread now.
We get it, it’s unfair, Piazza should be lumped with Bonds, Clemens and Sosa.
Please let it go, it’s just sports…

By: louiespoon

louiespoon — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 15:17:49 +0000

FRANK THOMAS…….

By: shoehole

shoehole — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 14:19:12 +0000

Please. Someone tell me how this WAR stat works out. Does it take into pitchers stats for AL DH and NL non DH?
I am nearing 75 in age and not trying to be a wiseguy. Just curious.

By: weaselpuppy

weaselpuppy — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 06:54:19 +0000

You mean Hall of Screw the Tigers

Highest WAR for an eligible player not in the hall (non PED/Gambling? Lou Whitaker, who was off the ballot in one year. Guys that got more votes ? Jeff Reardon, Bob Boone. Guys that Whitaker beats in WAR? Derek Jeter, Reggie Jackson, Ron Santo and RYNE SANDBERG ( 1st ballot HOF)

Barry Larkin- 67.1 WAR, 1st ballot. Alan Trammell 67.1 WAR, never breaks 23% of the vote until his 12th year on the ballot….now at 36% w 3 years left

FU BBWAA

By: juanhughjazz

juanhughjazz — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 01:11:35 +0000

more evidence that it’s the hall of fame, not the hall of talent. Jack Morris’ whip is comparable to Nolan Ryan’s.

By: fanofevilempire

fanofevilempire — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 23:45:06 +0000

I saw Jack Morris pitch, he was bad ass, I don’t know how many hitters went to the plate thinking
they was do some damage against this guy. He got three rings, from three teams. Lucky guy!

By: nightrain42

nightrain42 — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 23:07:48 +0000

Morris doesn’t belong. I’d vote for Raines, bonds, and Clemens. The thing that’s doubly bad on bonds is he was a dick to reporters, and they being so sensitive wi hold a grudge. Never mind the fact that he watched the press tear his dad to shreds which contributed to his view. Sosa wasn’t good enuff off of roids to be in the hall, and he isn’t good enuff on them to be in. Ditto on McGuire. I’d prob cast a vote for piazza too.

By: shoehole

shoehole — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 21:50:04 +0000

Moogro. Morris had at least two good games. I believe he pitched a no hitter against the White Sox in the mid 80′s.

By: thinman61

thinman61 — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 20:55:59 +0000

I’m shocked, shocked to find that Bob Ryan is being all crusty and get off my lawn.

By: moogro

moogro — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 19:26:52 +0000

He’s not really right on the line, so he won’t win the lexicon title. Tim Raines, maybe.

By: genericcommenter

genericcommenter — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:51:12 +0000

This is more a reply to your Blyleven comment below..
I see what you are saying, but..

Wouldn’t avoiding 3 run HRs in favor of the occasional solo shot result in a LOWER ERA?

By: humanexcrement

humanexcrement — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:33:16 +0000

I’m betting that someday in the future Morris’s name will be lexicalized to stand for any player who sits right on the line of induction or non-induction into the HOF. Any player whose fate is debated ad nauseum year after year will be referred to as “the Jack Morris of the group.” Imagine what’ll happen when the Jack Morris of the group is a Barry Bonds case coming off Tommy John Surgery. Egad.

By: cw2121

cw2121 — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:09:10 +0000

I’ll defend Ben Zobrist, if nobody else is going to. First, though, fWAR puts him at 5th, not 7th. But even if you look at his more traditional stats, it is pretty obvious he’s one of the more fantastic all-around players in the game. He got on base at a .377 clip, walking 14.5% of the time. He hit 20 home runs. He stole 14 bases. Those are really solid counting numbers. Not even looking at defensive metrics, the consensus is he’s a great defender at 2B and SS, where he played more than half his games.

There are few people in the game who can claim to be even competent in all those areas, and Zobrist is above-average in them. So I buy him being top-10 in the AL. Just asking ‘really?’ isn’t too effective, especially with Zobrist. Maybe show how Zobrist was deficient last year instead – I doubt you’ll find too much, though. He’s just one of the most complete position players in the league, even if he’s not fantastic in any one (batting) category.

By: 18thstreet

18thstreet — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:05:10 +0000

Give my regards to the highway.

By: braddavery

braddavery — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:03:52 +0000

I don’t see how anyone can not vote for Bonds, Clemens and Sosa, but vote for Piazza. He has been implicated in PED abuse just like they have. Piazza was known to have off-handedly admitted as much and his teammates basically called him out on it.

By: DelawarePhilliesFan

DelawarePhilliesFan — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:01:17 +0000

Look up the word “circumstanatial” and re-read about Clemens. As I said, I am not debating someone who takes pride in not listening

By: 18thstreet

18thstreet — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:00:23 +0000

I like Bob Ryan. I grew up reading him. He seems like a decent guy; he didn’t phone in his work, even when (as now) I disagreed with it.

But he’s retired. I don’t understand why he still has a vote.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:42:13 +0000

Of course Clemens used, but that has no bearing on the poor comparison to the snow. In Clemens case, what is the snow? What is the manifestation that you that the evidence suggests occurred?

By: sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo

sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:41:17 +0000

But why didn’t the other great pitchers need to justify their stats as “pitching to the score?” It would be one thing if pitching to the score meant his ERA went from 2.50 to 2.60, but that is not the case. Frankly, what should define a HoF pitcher is the ability to retire batters regardless of the situation. If he was only a good pitcher when absolutely necessary, perhaps he should visit cooperstown by buying a ticket, like the rest of us.

By: moogro

moogro — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:40:55 +0000

It’s still pretty jarring to see Morris considered for the HOF. He was a consensus durable journeyman who got lucky and had one famous game. Tons of people did that. He’s pretty good. White hero trumps brain.

By: savocabol1

savocabol1 — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:28:42 +0000

Just another case of Craig’s way or the highway…

By: cur68

cur68 — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:11:50 +0000

I’m not seeing any this, al. In comparison to what Morris made, 60-75k IS meagre. Also how is Jesse there implying he now makes more than that? Point me to the sentence, please. Also, “douche”. Why? That’s a lot of personal invective to throw at a guy you don’t even know. A guy who isn’t even talking about you or to you. Unless you’re not REALLY ‘albert”. Maybe you are really….’jack’….if so…well get a life ‘jack’.

By: cur68

cur68 — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:06:12 +0000

That fits with my recollection of Morris. He was an ass. I recall him being interviewed by Buck Martinez in the WS parade that culminated at Skydome in ’92. He greeted Martinez with something like “I remember your career Buck and you weren’t that good.” Classy! He pitched to the score so well the Beav left his ass off the PS in ’93. I think his ERA was >4.

Also, I firmly believe that anyone who acts like a total jackass on a golf course is morally decrepit individual. There’s no screaming in golf.

By: jessethegreat

jessethegreat — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:37:51 +0000

Albertmn, my boss’s salary was meger… COMPARED TO A PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL PLAYER. Where did I say I Make more than that?

By: vikesfansteve

vikesfansteve — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:34:06 +0000

Of course it is, all stemming back to Morris making the Braves his bitch.

By: The Dangerous Mabry

The Dangerous Mabry — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:10:18 +0000

The ELO rating page you’re looking at has nothing to do with statistics at all. It’s based on putting players “head to head” and having the community vote on which player is better in each head-to-head matchup, then using a system used to rank chess players to determine which comes ahead of the others. There’s nothing in there that’s related to baseball statistics at all, unless you assume that the decisions of the community will base their votes on their own statistical analysis.

If you want something stat based for rating the careers of pitchers, try something like pitcher WAR (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_pitch_career.shtml), where Jim Kaat is 134 and Sandy Koufax is 79th, accumulating 10 more career Wins Above Replacement than Kaat despite pitching approximately half as many innings.

By: sophiethegreatdane

sophiethegreatdane — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:46:50 +0000

Well said.

By: albertmn

albertmn — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:38:49 +0000

Glad you don’t have a vote, as personal vendettas have no place in HOF voting.

By the way, who is the douche that you have to call $60-75K per year “meager”, while trying to point out that you obviously now earn more than that? Median household income in 2011 was in the range of 50-53K and the average was in the range of 60-65K. Are you a 1% that you choose to call $60-75 “meager”, especially 15 years ago? I hope your taxes go up, so that extra money might go to someone that would appreciate it more than you.