Comments on: The new batting practice/spring training caps have been unveiled and they are mostly OK

By: blackandbluedivision

blackandbluedivision — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 16:39:29 +0000

“I’m not ignoring who is offended.”

“As a matter of fact I said that I would happily change my view on the subject if someone presented a good explanation as to why it is offensive.”

Well look around you. People are telling you why it is offensive. You’re ignoring what they are telling you just because you aren’t offended. It doesn’t matter if you’re offended. If I say something to piss you off and I go and tell you that it doesn’t matter because I’m not offended, does that make you feel better? Now consider how you feel versus a population of people.

Native Americans make up 0.9% of this country. Just because there isn’t a uproar doesn’t mean that a good amount of Native Americans aren’t offended.

By: townballblog

townballblog — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 04:14:55 +0000

PS – And yes, I might giggle a bit at a Drunk Redneck logo

By: townballblog

townballblog — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 04:13:44 +0000

Nope, not being sarcastic. I grew up a braves fan, still love them, but when I was little I didn’t speak English so the connection never clicked.

By: townballblog

townballblog — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 04:10:36 +0000

I’m not ignoring anyone who is offended, I merely disagree with it being offensive. As a matter of fact I said that I would happily change my view on the subject if someone presented a good explanation as to why it is offensive.

And as far as I can tell none of the Native American personas are being portrayed as being drunk… Your drunk redneck reference is a lame argument.

By: cosanostra71

cosanostra71 — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 18:44:30 +0000

I’m not offended by the Braves’ or Indian’s logos, but I still don’t like the Braves’ hat. It is too busy for my taste. Same with the Mets/Reds hats. I personally prefer simplicity. Like the Tigers, Cards or Giants’ hats. I like the Mets/Reds’ logos, but not on a hat. I honestly think it comes down to symmetry- with logos like that, you can’t really achieve it.

By: jerseydevi1

jerseydevi1 — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 16:37:13 +0000

WTF?

By: jerseydevi1

jerseydevi1 — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 16:36:12 +0000

I’m buying the Braves hat, too. My wife has Cherokee in her heritage and she actually collects alot of this kind of stuff. She says it helps her remember her heritage. There are some she doesn’t like, but we have several old Braves hats and such with this logo on it already. It will be fun to add to the collection.

Can’t remember who posted it earlier, but I agree with them about all of the “offended” people not doing anything about it. If you are so hurt by it, petition the team to get it changed. Stop going to games and buying the merchandise. Hit them in the wallet and they will listen.

I am offended that so many people take offense to so many things. Serious question to those who get so upset. How does this affect your life or the lives of your family members? Seriously. Is it so worth getting upset over? I was always taught that the key to taking offense to something is that you do exactly that. You TAKE offense. Nobody gives it to you or forces it on you, you take it. It is a conscious choice that you make. Make the conscious choice to not care and watch how much happier you are.

By: mqcarpenter

mqcarpenter — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 14:45:17 +0000

That braces cap is disgraceful. u how a key player refuses too wear it so there is a real conversation about this coming this spring

By: blackandbluedivision

blackandbluedivision — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 06:22:52 +0000

The idea is it’s a character. They’re taking a made up icon or picture. Calling it Native American and honoring that. They’re not honoring Native Americans they’re honoring a stereotype and a joke. Especially when these logos were created in 1912 a era when racism ran rampant. It sickens me that no one would step up and fix something like this.

If you go to another country and they have a soccer (whatever sport) and have a team called the Americans and use a picture of a drunk “RedNeck” as their logo. How would you feel? You might laugh, but I guarantee somebody in this country would be offended. Which is the case here. If you’re not offended, fine, but don’t ignore someone that is.

By: contraryguy

contraryguy — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 02:31:14 +0000

Money money money.

of course, PETA will probably be coming along to ditch the A’s cap as it depicts an exploited circus animal…

By: cur68

cur68 — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 01:34:29 +0000

The second of your links was really compelling ‘lions. I think people have grown so used to seeing the Indian’s logo that they are missing how derogatory it is. Its not until you place it in the context of other’s of its ilk that you can really see what you are looking at. Its a good exercise to engage in for this sort of thing and you can apply to many other sports teams.

Now I must go. The Washington Blackskins are playing and I don’t want to miss anything.

By: townballblog

townballblog — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 01:21:44 +0000

JW – I understand what you’re saying but I meant not getting too political as in using the HBT platform to get into politics (though sometimes we do as often it can be unavoidable).

Nevertheless, I didn’t know that about the history of the logo, kind of a cool thing to know.

Rockthered – Yep, anytime.

By: hcf95688

hcf95688 — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 01:19:45 +0000

After reading the outcry here and elsewhere, I will definitley be purchasing a Braves BP cap.

By: Ducky Medwick

Ducky Medwick — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 00:45:02 +0000

I guess I would take the over then…

By: jayscarpa

jayscarpa — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 00:33:38 +0000

The Yankees caps are fugly. Do the teams design the caps or does MLB do it? Ugh.

The Mets cap is a winner, I might even get one.

The Oakland and Houston caps are also very nice.

Texas should have just gone with the flag, a little bigger, with no T

By: seeinred87

seeinred87 — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 23:21:48 +0000

I don’t want to disagree too vehemently in case you were kidding, but flat bill hats are the worst thing ever. I cringe when I see guys wearing a flat brim with the sticker still on it in public, and I cringe a little harder when I see a pro ballplayer do it.

By: baseballbarrister

baseballbarrister — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 22:57:40 +0000

No ma’am this was not his personal blog, which I read frequently, this was ESPN. If he wants to write about the issues facing Native Americans he is free to do so; but using this platform to make a cheap political point was tacky and ultimately pointless.

By: koufaxmitzvah

koufaxmitzvah — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 22:10:26 +0000

The Indians team name and logo was ultimately designed designating a people as an animal or inanimate object. That’s a fact, whether malicious or not, a group of White Americans were to have mascots.

If the name The Braves is so important, then don’t place a caricature on the uniform. Sell the merch by name only.

By: rockthered1286

rockthered1286 — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 21:59:19 +0000

TBB- thank you for saying what I clearly could not say with a level head. I let emotions get the best of me sometimes, especially with these type of PC issues that only see outcry a few times a year when it’s pertinent (yet most people who cry fowl on here have not joined any petitions to get them to put the kabosh on these names). I have yet to see a logical explanation as to HOW they are meant to be hateful, offensive, spiteful, ignorant, etc. They are the face of a franchise. There are proud fans wearing the logo. And I support keeping them in place.

By: rockthered1286

rockthered1286 — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 21:53:22 +0000

signahead- I strongly suggest you don’t call it plan B. That may be offensive to someone who is pro-life.

By: rockthered1286

rockthered1286 — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 21:51:36 +0000

I’m defending it because there’s no need to change it. It’s not meant to offend. It’s not meant to hurt. It’s not meant to mock. It’s not meant to generate hatred. It’s not meant to create controversy. It’s not meant to perpetuate a negative sterotype (which I STILL cannot figure out what the negative sterotype is here…). Inversely, people who whine about it are the ones creating controversy, suggesting what they THINK it represents. Generating hatred towards those who are fine with the mascot because it’s just a mascot. Finding offense in something as simple as a logo…. actually let’s stick with that- where is the negative stereotype? I clearly don’t see it. I see a mascot that has been around for decades. Someone please explain to me the negative connotation with these team names. Help me see what I clearly have an issue seeing here…

By: paperlions

paperlions — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 20:57:37 +0000

I love the fact that Mr. Redlegs has a popped collar.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 20:54:21 +0000

Exactly. If it isn’t a big deal….then why the strident defense of inaccurate stereotypes.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 20:52:54 +0000

Images that belittle people based on offensive stereotypes should not be used:

Is this one okay to use? http://www.backintimetradingpost.com/product-photos/smoking-sambo-standup-2-1294524162.gif

Are this okay? http://www.bluecorncomics.com/pics/auth.gif

There is no defense of images like Wahoo or names like Redskins (I don’t have much problem with their icon).

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 20:52:38 +0000

Its. A. Team. Name. Nothing more.

So change it, and eliminate any appearance of racism/bigotry? If it’s not an issue…

By: paperlions

paperlions — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 20:45:30 +0000

The funny thing about the automatic assumption of “it must be a white dude” (and I am a white dude), is that the assumption is pretty much always right. As the only group that doesn’t really know what it feels like in the US to be discriminated against, it pretty much takes a white guy to be so able to not understand why someone would take offense to a characterization of a race/sex.

By: rockthered1286

rockthered1286 — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 20:42:38 +0000

He couldn’t give the Braves anything other than an F or there would be an outcry that he’s prejudice towards Native Americans for liking the hat. And I’m sure in the end, he would be suspended like ESPN does with everyother person that works for them…

By: rockthered1286

rockthered1286 — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 20:40:07 +0000

I can sum this up very easily: do you think changing a few sports teams name will remove ignorance and hate from people? furthermore do you honestly think these teams are perpetuating hatred? Do you think they originally named these teams to generate hatred towards people of Native American decent? I can agree that it may have been a touch of ignorance from the start, but in no way was it meant to breed hate and anger in their direction.

Its. A. Team. Name. Nothing more.

By: rockthered1286

rockthered1286 — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 20:26:36 +0000

natslady…missing your point altogether here. What exactly is the correlation between female voters decades ago and an animated logo of a baseball team that’s been around just as long? Apples and oranges. It’s absurd to compare the two other than from a PC standpoint. People are way too focused on protecting feelings. It’s absurd. And you’re so focused ont he logo offending people with statements like “so why offend people” but that is absolutely not the reasoning for the logos. Never was from the start. And if you truly think it is… that’s quite the skewed view on things.

I get your point- somewhere, someone is offended and it needs changed before a tear is shed and America falls apart… But did it ever occur to you that there are MORE people that would rather keep the team names the same? Actually, I’d love to see a poll. Show me how many people feel it’s offensive and need the name changed. I still think it’s not nearly as high as you would think. It’s on the same grounds as the Occupy junkies- they think they’re some monstrous group who will have an effect but really more people are just walking by and shaking their heads and telling the hippies to take a bath. It’s a commendable effort, but in the end, it’s wasted time. I think I’m partial to keeping the teams in tact solely because I’m tired of the PC BS that engulfs everyday life. It’s always “that’s not fair” or “what about me” or “that’s offensive to somebody don’t say/do that.” And really it’s gotten to a point where NOTHING is acceptable anymore. And personally, I find THAT offensive.

By: koufaxmitzvah

koufaxmitzvah — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 20:24:45 +0000

What I find most absurd is how people take to the internet in order to broadcast themselves as clear dolts who can’t think beyond the scope they were raised. This isn’t about squares not liking circles but rather respecting other people on this planet, especially those whom our fathers/grandfathers (i.e. ancestors) treated as not just play things but as total trash.

And if you can’t accept this as an understanding to the world of sports logos, then maybe you should just avoid thee conversations in the future No one is trying to change your opinions, Anonymous. We’re just trying to remove ignorance and hate from our lives.