Comments on: ESPN’s T.J. Quinn refuses to vote for the Hall of Fame and has a lot of good reasons for it http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/ Baseball. Baseball. And then a bit more baseball. Tue, 18 Jun 2013 05:51:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: kappy32 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-419016 Sun, 30 Dec 2012 01:55:20 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-419016 I have been pushing for a change in the voting process for a few years now & until now, I haven’t heard anyone bring up a better idea. I’ve even wrote about it on the comment section here. This is what I propose:

There are 4 entities interested in who makes the Hall of Fame. They are: (1) MLB; (2) MLBPA; (3) BBWAA; and (4) HoF Members (Veterans Committee). I propose that each entity either elect or appoint a certain amount of members, say 5, to serve on “The Hall of Fame Selection Committee.” In order for a player to make the Hall, that player must receive a two-thirds (2/3) vote to get in. For example, if each entity sends 5 members to the committee, a player would need 14 votes to get inducted. That would make sure any one entity couldn’t prevent a player from getting in & vice versa. Writers are given too much power & they aren’t qualified. It is crazy to bestow the greatest honor a player can receive through the evaluation of a bunch of guys who are more interested in creating news than reporting it & haven’t played ball since high school (if even that).

]]> By: stew48 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-419011 Sun, 30 Dec 2012 00:59:23 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-419011 Some of you write like guys on PFT. First, fame is never a verb; look it up. Fame is defined:” a great reputation”. Famous means to possess fame. Infamy is disgrace or great wickedness, so they are two very different words. Since it is the baseball hall, I would think being great at baseball would be the prime consideration. The reputation part must, in view of baseball history, include the entire personna. And, I am not expressing an opinion about any of the drugs or enhancers. With the list of those already in the Hall when drugs, etc. became a problem, I find it difficult to exclude alleged users. While I am an absolute fan of Pete Rose, the player, I fully understand why he is not in the Hall. The explanation is simple, and I have stated it before: Kenesaw Mountain Landis.

]]> By: albertmn http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418992 Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:47:47 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418992 But, the players on the ballot have all been out of baseball at least 5 years or more. So, someone out just 10 years will have seen these players play the game. It is when you get voters that have been out 15+ years that are really the problem.

]]> By: DelawarePhilliesFan http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418929 Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:33:40 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418929 Again, you cannot answer a very basic question – was it wrong to leave Cy Young off the first time around? And if it was wrong to leave him off, why do it to others (and for the record, I am not comparing anyone to anyone else) You mention Warren Spahn – he was voted in his first year of eligibility. Is that some sort of slight to Cy Young? Should he have had to wait until his 3rd year, so as not to get in quicker than Cy Young?

If someone belongs in the Hall – vote them in. If they do not, don’t. But this nonsense of “Oh, so and so had to wait an extra year, so everyone else should too” is ridiculous. Vote on merit, period.

]]> By: paperlions http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418909 Sat, 29 Dec 2012 14:34:27 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418909 Then you are willfully ignorant.

]]> By: wpjohnson http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418908 Sat, 29 Dec 2012 14:29:28 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418908 It appears that many of you would prefer the Hall of Fame changing to the Hall of Pretty Good players. It would resemble an offshoot of the social promotion and everyone gets a participation trophy mentality.

]]> By: wpjohnson http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418907 Sat, 29 Dec 2012 14:26:23 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418907 Delaware, if you don’t know the difference between greats like Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, and Warren Spahn and merely good pitchers like Hal Newhouser, Ferguson Jenkins, and Rollie Fingers, you have no knowledge whatsoever of baseball history.

]]> By: louhudson23 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418906 Sat, 29 Dec 2012 14:05:40 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418906 McGwire was not an elite player. His numbers are artificial. It is ludicrous to recite his numbers alongside those other players.Equally ludicrous is to cite “greenie” use or cocaine use as a comparable performance enhancer. The record book and the game were not distorted by “greenie”use. Maury Wills did not become Brett Boone and Dave Parker did not suddenly become Barry”small balls,big head” Bonds. Wearing those stupid ass balance bracelets would be performance enhancing if those who wore them gained 30 feet on their fly balls,but they didn’t,so no problem. McGwire,Sosa,Bonds et al were clowns playing an arcade game.Thankfully,pitching and defense have returned to the game and clowns like them appear to have melted away……

]]> By: louhudson23 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418902 Sat, 29 Dec 2012 13:55:15 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418902 McGwire was none of those things. I do not dock him. I disqualify him.

]]> By: The Dangerous Mabry http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418892 Sat, 29 Dec 2012 04:29:45 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418892 Having the most hits doesn’t make a man the best hitter of all time. He also made more outs than anyone elae and you’ll never hear him called the easiest out in history. Pete Rose was very good, but don’t exaggerate the man’s abilities.

]]> By: DelawarePhilliesFan http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418889 Sat, 29 Dec 2012 03:54:52 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418889 Yes, baseball is so against gambling that they refuse to have anything to do with it.

http://www.jdbaseball.com/pictures/florida-marlins/marlins-field.jpg

And that is one of MANY! But hey, in all fairness…they make money off of ads, they didn’t make any money off Pete Rose’s gambling.

]]> By: DelawarePhilliesFan http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418887 Sat, 29 Dec 2012 03:43:51 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418887 It seems to me your point is that since Cy Young was left off the first time, every other pitcher should be as well. So again, I ask, was it wrong to leave Cy Young out of the Hall that first vote? If the answer is yes, are you suggesting that the only way to “correct’ what happened to Cy Young is to do the same to everyone else? 2 wrongs make a right?

I assume you don’t believe Cy Young should be the only Hall of Fame pitcher. So pick any other pitcher you think is Hall worthy. What is the proper way to induct that pitcher – wait for the 3rd ballot, so they will not get in quicker than Cy Young? All that does is validate the ridiculous thing done to Cy Yong.

Cy Young should have been voted in on the first go around. It was lunacy he was not. To say that that lunacy should continue to play out over and over until the end of time is absurd.

]]> By: forsch31 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418877 Sat, 29 Dec 2012 01:50:59 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418877 No, you obviously didn’t. Quinn withdrew from the voting officially; he doesn’t receive a ballot anymore to turn in, unlike the goof who turned in his registered ballot that went against all of the eligible players as a specific protest against a select few. That sounds much more like somebody who “doesn’t want to make the tough decisions.”

]]> By: stercuilus65 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418856 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 23:58:20 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418856 The difference is Craig likes this writer because he agrees with him on PEDs, i.e. he’s an apologist, while the other writers he slams do not.

]]> By: wpjohnson http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418853 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 23:31:01 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418853 Somehow I believe that leaving Cy Young, the winner of 511 games, off a ballot is quite different from leaving these “good” players of today off the ballot. Comparing these guys to Young is like comparing gold to horse manure.

]]> By: wpjohnson http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418852 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 23:29:02 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418852 Well, then, why name more mediocre players to the Hall? The Hall has too many like the players you named. I can name many, many more. So you want to compound the problem. I would prefer, though it can’t be done, balloting for the removal of the mediocre inductees. I would suggest that the Hall could be reduced by from 1/4 to 1/3 or more. then it would be a true hall of fame.

]]> By: Roger Moore http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418850 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 23:01:29 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418850 It’s bad enough that you have some guys in the Hall who were just very good

Sure, but most of the guys in that category were put in by the various incarnations of the Veterans’ Committee, not by the BBWAA. The worst players put in by the BBWAA are guys like Jim Rice, Kirby Puckett, and Catfish Hunter. The Veterans have probably put in 30 players worse than the worst player put in by the BBWAA.

]]> By: Roger Moore http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418848 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 22:52:44 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418848 @natslady: Then putting in a blank ballot sounds like a more effective protest against the system than not voting at all.

No. Entering a blank ballot is a way of registering your opinion that none of the players on the ballot deserve to be in the Hall. That’s not a protest against the voting system, it’s a criticism of the players and/or MLB for whatever you think is wrong with them (e.g. strikes and lockouts, lax policies on PEDs, not as good as the players you remember from your youth, etc.). Refusing to turn in a ballot at all is ambiguous, since there are plenty of reasons you might not vote, but combined with a column like this one it’s a good protest of the voting system itself.

]]> By: kirkvanhouten http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418822 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 21:25:30 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418822 Does my employer have extremely strict rules against against gambling on ponies?

Hmm, let me consult the handbook….

….nope. Not at all. Thus making this analogy ridiculous.

(and Pete Rose is not the best hitter of all time. Or even close. He got the most *hits*, in large part because he couldn’t bow out gracefully and put up 5 dogshit seasons with an Al Newman-esque .315 slugging percentage the last five years of his career).

]]> By: kirkvanhouten http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418818 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 21:21:54 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418818 Excellent point. Craig Biggio doesn’t deserve to be in the same Hall of Fame that enshrined the baseball greats such as Highpockets Kelly, George Kell, Bill Mazeroski and Chick Hafey.

]]> By: stairwayto7 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418812 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 20:52:06 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418812 He is still standing in front of Joe Paterno’s home!

]]> By: jaysjunkie http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418808 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 20:42:34 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418808 Saw that interview with Ryan. This topic brings to mind Prime Time Sports co-host Stephen Brunt, a former beat writer for the Globe and Mail who recently gave up his right to vote because he didn’t like the fact that eligible players were being penalized for suspected drug use, despite the fact that MLB didn’t have rules at the time (he was also disgusted that MLB buried their head in the sand about the issue, too). And I can fully respect that position.

]]> By: nategearhart http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418804 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 20:39:29 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418804 You are correct, I made an assumption. Strike that one from the record; apparently baseball has higher standards than horse racing. Certainly doesn’t make shoehole’s point any more valid.

]]> By: tc4306 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418800 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 20:24:13 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418800 “If you own the pony, you don’t get to bet on the pony.” Obviously, you know very little about horse racing.

]]> By: nategearhart http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418796 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 20:16:00 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418796 You seriously don’t see the difference?
If you own the pony, you don’t get to bet on the pony. If you draw the lotto numbers, you don’t get to buy a ticket. If you play on the football team, you don’t get to bet on the football team.
I’ll ask YOU…have you ever taken an inside tip pertaining to your work that people outside the industry are not privy to, and used it to your advantage in the stock market? No, because it’s wrong AND illegal, right? THAT’S the apt comparison here.

]]> By: BigBeachBall http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418792 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 20:03:37 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418792 If you invite a bunch of asterisks into your club, then your club becomes one too.

]]> By: shoehole http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418790 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 20:00:40 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418790 Let me ask. Have you ever bought a lottery ticket? Have you ever bet on the ponies or played the football pool at work?
These are all considered gambling. The best hitter of all time is not on the HOF ballot because he bet on his own baseball team. I believe it’s time to add Pete Rose to the ballot.

]]> By: Gamera the Brave http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418789 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 19:59:48 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418789 pink,
Good call on Gaedel, he’s on my all-time “Pro Ballplayers under 5 feet tall” team!

]]> By: nothanksimdriving123 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418781 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 19:12:32 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418781 The Hockey Hall of Fame has a special selection committee of experts, and several years ago they elected a former player named Dick Duff. By most accounts he is a nice fellow. He was on teams that won several Stanley Cups. However, he never led the NHL in any major category or was even among the scoring leaders, never won any NHL individual awards, was never voted to the end-of-year All-Star Team. Merely a well-liked, good player. Moral: No system is perfect.

]]> By: mrfloydpink http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/espns-t-j-quinn-refuses-to-vote-for-the-hall-of-fame-and-has-a-lot-of-good-reasons-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-418780 Fri, 28 Dec 2012 19:12:18 +0000 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=281659#comment-418780 Eddie Gaedel. Jose Canseco. Ugueth Urbina. Ozzie Guillen. Bob Uecker. Mark “The Bird” Fidrych. Lenny Dykstra. All quite famous.

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