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Murray Chass to give up his Hall of Fame vote after one last dumb Hall of Fame vote

Jan 3, 2013, 3:30 PM EDT

jack morris

Murray Chass, who despite being a mere blogger, has a Hall of Fame vote and will have it until he dies. He has decided to give it up, however, arguing — quite sensibly, I’ll note — that baseball writers shouldn’t be in the business of making baseball news.  It’s the same approach T.J. Quinn is taking and the same policy a lot of newspapers apply to their writers who would otherwise be eligible to vote for the Hall of Fame, including Chass’ former employer, the New York Times.

But Chass isn’t giving up his vote yet. He was one last bit of unfinished business: electing Jack Morris. Morris gets Chass’ sole vote this year and, if he is not elected, will get his sole vote next year. Chass will quite voting when Morris is inducted or falls off the ballot, whichever comes first.

As for why he’s pro-Morris:

I think I am safe in concluding that Morris did not cheat. I know the stats zealots don’t think Morris is a Hall of Famer because his rankings in their new-fangled ratings fall below their standards. But they don‘t have a formula for intestinal fortitude or determination.

As always, it’s hilarious when things like ERA, wins, losses, strikeouts, walks and stuff like that are considered “new-fangled. Meanwhile, measuring things like intestinal fortitude and determination would take bleeding-edge statistical analysis to get one’s mind around.

Eh, whatever. No one listens to bloggers anyway. Because all they do is pass along secondhand information and act like they know what they’re talking about. Like this:

When Bagwell was eligible initially a couple of years ago, I voted for him, then was told he was a steroids guy. Trusting the information, I haven’t voted for him since.

A man has to have standards.

  1. dondada10 - Jan 3, 2013 at 3:37 PM

    Drama queen.

  2. tc4306 - Jan 3, 2013 at 3:39 PM

    The issue with this is not that he is pro-Morris: that is a separate debate and, quite frankly, I don’t really care how it turns out. The issue is that by submitting such a ballot he is voting against everyone else and that is just not right.

    • 18thstreet - Jan 3, 2013 at 3:52 PM

      “To me,” Kelly said, “the hardest part of the game for those two guys was their teams had opportunities to score and they didn’t. Other pitchers would have crumbled. Those two fellows kept going out there and being nasty.”

      You know what? With the strike zone in that game there’s about 20 pitchers who could have gone eight scoreless innings. And neither of those offenses were exactly the 2003 Red Sox, either.

      Look, Jack Morris pitched one awesome game. But there have been plenty of great clinching games. Does anyone think Josh Beckett is a Hall of Famer? Because his Game Six against the Yankees in 2003 basically as good as Morris’s outing against a much better team.

      I have no idea why I’m focused on 2003, by the way.

  3. thebadguyswon - Jan 3, 2013 at 3:42 PM

    These idiots act like people really care what their opinion is about a game they didn’t play beyond Little League.

  4. bobwsc - Jan 3, 2013 at 3:44 PM


  5. schlom - Jan 3, 2013 at 3:45 PM

    Jack Morris did have incredible intestinal fortitude. I was told that once he ate a whole extra large pizza and polished off 3 pitchers of beer and then ran ten wind sprints without puking.

    • El Bravo - Jan 3, 2013 at 5:31 PM

      What I can’t figure is why people think this isn’t measurable. Why, eating a whole extra large pizza and 3 pitchers of beer is a perfect starting point for measuring exactly that! Did he shit himself? No? Well then he passes a pretty high bar of intestinal fortitude. Now, can someone top that with a side of wings or a fourth pitcher? We can measure this! We WILL measure this!

      • frank433 - Jan 3, 2013 at 6:56 PM

        By this measure, I’m a first ballot guy.

        Hell, I may be the first person in the hall that was elected unanimously based on this measure alone. (BTW, I spelled unanimously so wrong that one recommended word to fix it was monogamously)

  6. 18thstreet - Jan 3, 2013 at 3:45 PM

    His name is Blogger Murray Chass.

  7. steelerhypocrite - Jan 3, 2013 at 3:46 PM

    Morris deserves to be in. Winningest pitcher of the 80’s, plus a huge Game 7 in the 91 World Series where he won the game after throwing 10 innings…if he played in NY he would have been a first ballot Hall of Famer, like the overrated Jeter.

    • cur68 - Jan 3, 2013 at 3:55 PM

      I don’t care if Morris gets in the HOF. If he does he won’t be the worst pitcher in there, not if we go by WAR. If we go by ERA he will be, though.

      One thing: “Wins” are not solely the provenance of the pitcher. Pitchers are on run prevention, not run generation. Wins relies heavily on a stud offence (see Lee, Cliff from last season). Hence ERA is a better metric with fWAR being better still. But whatever. I understand that which people don’t take the trouble to understand will be frightening. Stick with ERA…or don’t, because Morris will be the worst ERA in the HOF if he is enshrined. But wins? Wins aren’t really his beat.

      • 18thstreet - Jan 3, 2013 at 4:37 PM

        He’s a witch! Burn him!!!

      • Jonny 5 - Jan 3, 2013 at 9:24 PM

        You just had to bring up Cliffy’s unfortunate last season didn’t you? Couldn’t you think of a point of reference less painful and fresh? These wounds are just healing man!

      • cur68 - Jan 3, 2013 at 9:30 PM

        I’ve learned things from this blog, man. When making a point, go for the throat and never mind who gets hurt. The hand grenade of point making knows much collateral damage. Anyhow, the whole Lee, Cliff thing is on Chad Qualls. How Cliffy didn’t hick his balls up ’round his ears is beyond me.

    • brewcrewfan54 - Jan 3, 2013 at 3:55 PM

      Jeter may be overrated bit he’s still a Hall or Famer. And Morris shouldn’t be rewarded just because the 10 best years of his career happened to coincide with a particular 10 year window, this case being the 80’s. at most that part should be the icing on the cake not one of the main arguments for inclusion.

      • 18thstreet - Jan 3, 2013 at 4:43 PM

        Morris is 42nd on the all-time wins list. It took a magic of the calendar — that his best years were bordered by zeroes — to make this look impressive.

        Six non-HOFers have more wins than Morris’s 254: Jim McCormick, Gus Weyhing, Jim Kaat, Tony Mullane, Tommy John, and Bobby Mathews. And even that skips Jamie Moyer, Mike Mussina, Roger Clemens, Tom Glavine, Randy Johnson, and Greg Maddux.

        The case for Morris is (1) wins and (2) one awesome game. That’s it.

      • 18thstreet - Jan 3, 2013 at 4:46 PM

        On the all-time homerun list, Andruw Jones and Juan Gonzales are tied for 41st. It’s a spot reserved for the very good.

      • brewcrewfan54 - Jan 3, 2013 at 6:20 PM

        I’m not arguing for Morris’ inclusion 18th. I don’t think he belongs but if someone is making an argument he does belong the most wins in the 80’s thing is a peripheral reason at best.

    • kirkvanhouten - Jan 3, 2013 at 4:03 PM

      First off, using the “winningist pitcher of the 1980s” is a weak attempt of claiming that Morris was the best pitcher of the 1980s while attempting to absolve yourself of the inevitable criticism you’ll recieve when you get called out on it. He wasn’t the best pitcher of the 1980s…off the top of my head, the following pitchers had a better decade:
      Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Bert Blyleven, Fernando Valenzuela… Going by WAR, Morris is barely ahead of Frank Viola for the decade. Viola didn’t come up until 1982 and didn’t have his first good season until 1984!

      Secondly, he pitched an awesome World Series Game. So? Since when does one game make you a Hall of Famer? Should I start stumping for Mark Whiten and Don Larsen now? He has a career 3.80 postseason ERA, showing that in the postseason, he was basically just the same old Jack Morris and not a magic, October-hero man.

      Thirdly, Derek Jeter is much, much, much more valuable than Jack Morris.

      Look guys, Jack Morris was a good pitcher. But he wasn’t some elite player. Almost any statistic you guy by, he wasn’t an elite guy. His career numbers are remarkably similar to Dennis Martinez…who got a whopping 16 Hall of fame votes. If you think that is the type of player who deserves to go, more power to you! But let’s all stop making up ridiculous narratives to support a candidate that doesn’t meet any of our other criteria, shall we?

      • largebill - Jan 3, 2013 at 5:13 PM

        Concur. Not only wasn’t he the best of the 80’s, he wasn’t even the best for any single season.

    • raysfan1 - Jan 3, 2013 at 8:28 PM

      In the 1980s the Yankees won 21 more games than the Tigers. It’s fair to suppose he’d have had about 4-5 more wins to his total as a result. He would also have not won a World Series in the 1980s. So, sorry, he’d be in the same position now regardless, at best.

  8. cur68 - Jan 3, 2013 at 3:47 PM

    Sweet Jesus Montero. This isn’t logic. This isn’t even bias. What ever process The Blogger Murray Chass is using, it eludes me. Perhaps, its some sort of eructation of bowel gas doing the blogging? Either that or The Blogger Murra Chass is out of his damn mind.

    • El Bravo - Jan 3, 2013 at 5:14 PM

      This is a douchenozzle is what it is! The 2013 Inaugural DN comes on 1/3/13. That was quick.

      1. Murray Chass – Chass, a mere blogger, will give up his undeserved HOF vote, but only after attempting to vote in Jack Morris. Whether or not Morris deserves it is beside the point. He’s sticking it to all other HOF eligible players as a consequence. Total Chasshole move, bro.

      • cur68 - Jan 3, 2013 at 5:18 PM

        He puts the “ass” in “Chass” that’s for sure. Anyways, he should be proud. Not many bloggers make #1 douchenozzle for a given year. I thought that spot was perennially reserved for Dykstra so to see The Blogger Murray Chass pour it on hot, hard and early like this is heart warming. Either that, or its indigestion.

  9. lazlosother - Jan 3, 2013 at 3:57 PM

    “Murray Chass, who despite being a mere blogger, has a Hall of Fame vote and will have it until he dies.” Well played sir, well played.

    Steeler, you really should read about the sabermetronics on the interwebs. A reasonable look at the more tradidtional stats, and comparison with other pitchers also indicate Morris should not be in. As for NY, Pettitte has similar stats to Morris and played in an era of more offense. I don’t think he’ll get in either.

  10. stex52 - Jan 3, 2013 at 4:00 PM

    Let’s all hope for Morris to get chosen. Then at least there will be one idiot with a BBWA vote eliminated. What a sad waste that he gets to vote.

    • cur68 - Jan 3, 2013 at 4:18 PM

      Amen, brother. I’m sick of Jack Friggin Morris.

  11. Paul Zummo - Jan 3, 2013 at 4:10 PM

    And sadly he continues his personal jihad against Mike Piazza. The man is a disgrace.

  12. kirkvanhouten - Jan 3, 2013 at 4:26 PM

    Let’s compare Jack Morris to noted non-Hall of Famer Dennis Martinez, shall we? They were almost exact contemporaries.

    Morris had 254, Martinez 245
    Morris had a 3.90 ERA, Martinez 3.70
    Morris threw 3824 Innings, Martinez 3999
    Morris K’d 2478 batters, Martinez 2149
    Morris Walked 1390 batters, Martinez 1165
    Morris gave up 389 home runs, Martinez 372
    Morris had an 105 ERA+, Martinez 106
    Morris had a career 3.80 postseason ERA, Martinez 3.32
    Morris had a 39.3 WAR, Martinez 45.1

    Hmm, about the same for their careers…of course Martinez played longer. Was he a mere compiler while Morris was peak heavy?

    Number of Top 10 Finishes In:
    War for Pitchers: Morris 5, Martinez 7
    ERA: Morris 6, Martinez 6 (lead league in 1991)
    Wins: Morris 12, Martinez 5
    WHIP: Morris 5, Martinez 6
    IP: Morris 9, Martinez 9

    Who would you rather have in their top 5 seasons? (average of top 5 years based on WAR)

    Morris: 33 Games, 18-10, 3.24 ERA, 247 IP, 160 K, 27 HR, 87 BB
    Martinez: 31 games, 15-9, 2.79 ERA, 219 IP, 133 K, 15 HR, 53 BB

    Martinez gives you a few less wins and innings, but far fewer home runs and walks.

    You can argue that Morris is better than Martinez, it’s close. But if you think Jack Morris is a HOF, are you really prepared to say that Dennis Martinez was just a few wins and a couple of strikeouts away from the HOF himself?

    • cur68 - Jan 3, 2013 at 5:34 PM


      • paperlions - Jan 3, 2013 at 5:59 PM

        Just so you know, that thumbs up smells of elderberry.

  13. vanquish0916 - Jan 3, 2013 at 4:37 PM

    I’d bet my house that Blogger Murray Chass has an AOL email address

  14. scatterbrian - Jan 3, 2013 at 4:40 PM

    Chassclown is nothing more than a contrarian. He’s got such a beef with the stats zealots and their new-fangled ratings that he’ll oppose them on principle.

  15. braddavery - Jan 3, 2013 at 7:05 PM

    Kinda hope Morris gets in this year so this idiot gives up his vote.

  16. butchhuskey - Jan 3, 2013 at 7:25 PM

    Murray’s obsession with Mike Piazza’s bacne is just plain creepy.

  17. raysfan1 - Jan 3, 2013 at 8:15 PM

    People keep making a big deal of Morris’ being “the winningest pitcher of the 1980’s.”. Let’s break that down a bit…
    He won 162 games, lost 119 for a .577 clip.
    His team throughout the decade, the Tigers, were 839-727, good for .533.
    Apply .533 to his decisions, and he should have won 150 games. In other words, he earned his team 1.2 extra wins per season with the quality of his pitching. A very good pitcher on a good team, to be sure, but enough to use his 1980’s wins as an argument for the Hall of Fame?

  18. raysfan1 - Jan 3, 2013 at 8:30 PM

    Actually, it might be worth it to put Morris in if we can be sure Chass really will stop voting altogether then.

  19. iladel90 - Jan 3, 2013 at 9:09 PM

    Check out this fun free baseball game

    Create & train players or run a team.

    • raysfan1 - Jan 3, 2013 at 10:43 PM

      Can we please block this clown so that we don’t have to keep seeing him shill for his game?

  20. 13datsyuk13 - Jan 3, 2013 at 11:18 PM

    Yet nobody mentions how Bagwell is innocent.

    • raysfan1 - Jan 3, 2013 at 11:39 PM

      Nobody knows for sure about anybody’s innocence in terms of steroid use for any player. However, there is zero evidence for Bagwell using. The only things anyone points at are being Ken Caminiti’s teammate and being a person who likes to pump iron. That isn’t even evidence; it’s innuendo. Thus I consider him innocent even though I believe Caminit was speaking accurately when he said 80% of players were using. There, happy now?

  21. Walk - Jan 4, 2013 at 1:11 AM

    I am officially off the fence on morris, hopefully he gets elected soon.

  22. nukeladouche - Jan 4, 2013 at 12:59 PM

    On Morris: I concur with the general sentiment here – i.e., he’s not a HOFer. Great job on that Dennis Martinez comparison above. . . .

    On Chass: If intestinal fortitude and determination are more important than, well, actual statistics (new-fangled or otherwise), then Ryan Freel (may he RIP) should be a first-ballot HOFer. And there are literally hundreds of minor leaguers (maybe thousands) who toil away, hard at work like some modern-day Crash Davis with boatloads of intestinal fortitude and determination. Should we put them all in the HOF too, their lack of impressive statistics (new-fangled or otherwise) notwithstanding?

  23. murraychassisamoron - Jan 20, 2013 at 12:48 AM

    Murray Chass is a no-talent idiot who once wrote an article using second-hand hearsay as his only proof to accuse Stan Musial of being a racist, despite mounds of evidence to the contrary, and refused to recant his position when told he was incorrect. Chass is a despicable, vile excuse for a human being, and the word “journalist” should never be used in a sentence to describe him unless that sentence is “Murray Chass is not a journalist”.

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