Comments on: The 50 best baseball players not in the Hall of Fame

By: pike573

pike573 — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 17:41:19 +0000

The one that always sticks with me is Trammel. I grew up during the years he played an watched a lot of games and I just don’t remember anyone ever saying (or me believing) that he is a HOF. He was always a very good player but seen never as great during his playing days. And the converse to that is Dale Murphy. He was great (for a few years) but fell off a cliff. I don’t know if he belongs or not I’m just making the point of shifting lines of thinking.

By: bertmcg

bertmcg — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 06:22:55 +0000

Ditto Mrfloydpink

By: schmedley69

schmedley69 — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 03:42:59 +0000

Sixto Lezcano. Enough said.

By: raysfan1

raysfan1 — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 03:31:53 +0000

True, and my list was limited to 10 only because that’s the limit if you get to vote.

By: Lukehart80

Lukehart80 — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 02:13:44 +0000

You clearly paid no attention to how the list was put together. And I can assure you, the project’s creator/overseer knows a ton about baseball history prior to 1970.

By: Lukehart80

Lukehart80 — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 02:09:20 +0000

Sadly, we certainly won’t get even those three deserving candidates, much less the 10-14 deserving ones.

By: raysfan1

raysfan1 — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 01:56:06 +0000

The list was intentionally limited to players who have been out of baseball long enough to be potentially eligible for the HoF.

Bonds is likely not at the top of the list because some of those polled held PED use against him. I’d probably argue for Jackson to be #1 followed by Bonds.

By: raysfan1

raysfan1 — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 01:42:55 +0000

I’d be very happy, and pleasantly surprised, with a 2013 HoF class of Raines, Biggio, and Bagwell even though I’d have 7 more names on my ballot if I had a vote (Bonds, Clemens, Martinez, Trammell, Schilling, McGwire, Piazza)

By: spudchukar

spudchukar — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 01:32:16 +0000

Curt Flood.

By: rgledz

rgledz — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 01:06:46 +0000

Tony Oliva should not only be high on that list, he should be in the HOF. He had an injury riddled career true, but he won 3 batting titles, a career BA of. 304, AL rookie of the year, 8 time all-star, ops+ of 131 and 220 home runs. He played in the pitchers era and was phenomenal. He deserves it.

By: simon94022

simon94022 — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 00:30:12 +0000

What the –?

Bonds is only tied for 8th on the list of Hall-worthy non-members? There aren’t 8 better players than Bonds in all of baseball history, steroids or not.

And it can’t be a morals argument that keeps Bonds that low. Both Pete Rose and the very marginal but clearly crooked Shoeless Joe Jackson are ranked above him.

By: yahmule

yahmule — Fri, 04 Jan 2013 00:20:14 +0000

Keith Millar is equal to Lou Gehrig. I knew the comment section on this thread would be absurd, but I vastly underestimated. The truth is current fans are for more predisposed to overvaluing their own era than so-called old timers are for romanticizing the past.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 22:41:55 +0000

By: cur68

cur68 — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 22:41:24 +0000

Rajai Davisist

By: paperlions

paperlions — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 22:36:38 +0000

Elderberryist

By: cur68

cur68 — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:54:27 +0000

Double fail then.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:48:50 +0000

Oh, I got the reference. I just don’t see how that is supposed to be an insult. I rather like elderberry wine.

By: cur68

cur68 — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:47:13 +0000

Ok, you lose. Failure to get a Monty Python reference is automatically losing in this game. Iron Clad Rule.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:34:02 +0000

Well, thank you…thank you very much….wait, was that supposed to be an insult?

By: cur68

cur68 — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:21:19 +0000

Oh yeah? Well you smell of elderberries. So there.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:12:25 +0000

I assume this is a true or false format.

False. Duh!

By: cur68

cur68 — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:10:25 +0000

Hey, I like this game! I wanna play. But there must be rules. Without rules, there is only madness and Murray Chass (excuse me: The Blogger Murray Chass).

So, a name for this game. I think “Current Ballplayer if he played before 1980″. Player must be active and on a roster in MLB. Player must be a mediocre talent. Homerism is openly encouraged. Hyperbole is our watchword. Ready? Lets go:

If Rajai Davis played the same time as Willy Mays he’d be considered in the HOF right now.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:41:28 +0000

There are some caveats. The players today are quite obviously the best players that have ever played. The level of competition is much higher than it used to be. Guys that are utility players now would have been above average IF in the 1970s or before. Lineups are far far deeper than they have ever been before. Pitchers and hitters are forced to make adjustments much more quickly than ever before thanks to video analysis that allows both hitters to detect pitcher tendencies more quickly and allows pitchers to find holes in a hitters swing more quickly. Guys are bigger and stronger, and in far better shape than the days when guys just showed up completely out of shape (which was the norm).

I am more than willing to entertain the notion that there are over-looked old timers that deserve consideration. List them and make the arguments. Otherwise, this is just crotchety old man bluster.

By: 18thstreet

18thstreet — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:34:28 +0000

You know what? I’ll bet an above-average regular, like a Kevin Millar, would have put up numbers like Gehrig if he had played in that era. I don’t know why some people have such a hard time believing baseball’s better than it’s ever been. But it is.

I’m in my late-30s. The defense is a zillion times better than I was when I was growing up.

By: 18thstreet

18thstreet — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:30:00 +0000

Oh, you foolish man. The old-timers were obviously better. Just ask anyone old.

That’s why in sports like track and swimming, the best athletes were all in the 1920s, and their records have never been broken.

By: paperlions

paperlions — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:24:09 +0000

There are already far far too many “old timers” in the HOF, largely because of express attempts to find reasons to enshrine more of them. The majority of the worst HOFers are old timers (or owners and commissioners).

By: jonrox

jonrox — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:15:17 +0000

Did you even read it? The blogger solicited votes and had other people do the write-ups. There is no “author”

By: 18thstreet

18thstreet — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:14:14 +0000

Also, A-Rod and Pujols. And, sigh, Jeter.

By: 18thstreet

18thstreet — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:11:33 +0000

And here’s the best since Rose was a rookie: http://www.fangraphs.com/graphswd.aspx?teamid=0&pos=All&season=2012&season1=1963&grid=25

By: 18thstreet

18thstreet — Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:09:25 +0000

I don’t understand how Bonds isn’t on top of the list. He’s obviously the best player not in the Hall.

I was about to make an argument that Rose is overrated, and I created this … http://www.fangraphs.com/graphswd.aspx?teamid=0&pos=All&season=1986&season1=1963&grid=25

Withdrawn. He was great.