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NBC SportsTalk: My take on the shutout

Jan 10, 2013, 11:02 AM EDT

I was on NBC SportsTalk last night, talking about the Hall of Fame shutout with Erik Kuselias. I didn’t even gloat about predicting the lack of inductees:

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  1. darthicarus - Jan 10, 2013 at 11:07 AM

    I appreciate the placement of the Fastball Flakes box.

  2. wpjohnson - Jan 10, 2013 at 11:37 AM

    My posts supporting the vote of the BBWAA has been strongly rejected by most other posters. It is refreshing to see the statements of many of the living Hall members. I believe I would prefer to be on the side of the living members of the H of Fameall rather than that of those who wish to water down the quality of the Hall. We don’t need social promotion or quota systems. We need to admit only those who were great- not merely good.

    • kirkvanhouten - Jan 10, 2013 at 12:11 PM

      …these living Hall of Famers who were apparently greater than Craig Biggio (not to mention the many other players who should have gone, including those better than Biggio) include:

      -Ralph Kiner: Bad defensive corner outfielder whose career ended at age 32. (Biggio tops by 16 WAR)

      -Red Schoendienst: .289/.337/.387 hitter (94 OPS+), 2400 hits and 39 WAR (Biggio tops by 23 WAR)

      -Luis Aparicio: All glove, no hit shortstop (Biggio topped by 11 WAR)

      -Orlando Cepeda: 1st baseman with 2500 and 380 HR (Biggio tops by 16 WAR)

      -Lou Brock: Speedster, but barely above average hitting corner outfielder. Biggio tops him in virtually every offensive category (Biggio tops by 20 WAR)

      -Tony Perez- .804 OPS barely above Biggios…and he was slow and on the opposite side of the defensive spectrum (Biggio tops by 12 WAR)

      -Rollie Fingers- Relief pitcher whose career ERA+ is worse than *Jeff Reardon* (Biggio tops by 39 WAR)

      -Bruce Sutter- Relief pitcher who *barely* cracked 1000 innings for his career (Biggio tops by 39 WAR)

      • wpjohnson - Jan 10, 2013 at 1:06 PM

        I don’t disagree with your opinion in regard to the players you list. In fact, I could list 70 or 80 more- Kell, Doerr, Lindstrom, Herman, Bottomley, Newhouser, Lemon, Carter, Herzog, Southworth, D. Williams, Tinker, Evers, Chance, .Maranville, J. Rice, Gordon, Rizzuto, and many more. My point is that we can’t preserve the integrity of the Hall by adding more merely good but undeserving players just because that mistake has been made before. The”if X, why not Y” mentality needs to change.

        You appear to be a Biggio fan. I would support Biggio for election solely because he surpassed 3,000 hits without doing so with the aid of the DH rule. However, since the great Jimmie Foxx had to wait until the seventh ballot and the great Joe Dimaggio had to wait until the fourth ballot to be elected, I’m not too concerned that Biggio didn’t make it on the first ballot.

      • cur68 - Jan 10, 2013 at 2:20 PM

        WP: On the one hand you DON’T want to encourage established bad (in your view) precedent (watering down the hall) on the other hand you DO want to encourage established bad precedent (making players wait even though they are more than worthy and there is NO rule about this “1st ballot” bullshit). What do you say to guys like Ron Santo; dead before induction? Too bad? You weren’t 1st ballot? What, his stats changed or something after he died so lets induct him now? Surely you can see how what you do want harms people who are deserving and what you don’t want (even if you have no leg to stand on) is merely a continuation of HoF history and harms no one?

  3. raysfan1 - Jan 10, 2013 at 1:49 PM

    Wpjohnson–
    On the one hand I have philosophical issue with people who are “small hall” advocates such as yourself. You express yourself clearly and are consistent in your views. I differ with your opinion because I feel the Hall’s most important role is as a baseball history museum. To preserve and restore artifacts from the game’s 160 year history, to maintain their archives, etc requires vast sums of money. The Hall is a private organization, no public funding. Its biggest cash cow is induction week each year. No inductees (other than ones who died 70-80 years ago) means much less money for the museum to do its work. The HoF lost over $2 million last year as it is. I would rather have a threshold of HoF entry where the HoF remains solvent.

    Also, living Hall of Famers make a lot of money on memorabilia they can autograph with HOF after their name, and they understandably do not want to share. The former makeup/rules of the veteran’s committee had to be changed because they weren’t letting anyone in their frat. I take their views on nobody being inducted with a grain of salt.

  4. gloccamorra - Jan 10, 2013 at 3:40 PM

    Great point in your second paragraph. Current HOFers and the huge horde of “baseball” writers have known deficiencies in judgement. Lacking someone with the wisdom of Solomon, the system will always be flawed. It may be time to consider some kind of weighted hybrid system that limits the vote to baseball writers who cover the game exclusively, a rotating sample of HOFers, a sample of non-HOFer former players, some current veteran players, and maybe a pool of committed fans, like season ticket holders.

  5. wpjohnson - Jan 10, 2013 at 5:02 PM

    What would I say to Ron Santo, cur68? Well, to be perfectly honest, I would tell him that his rcord does not warrant induction into the Hall of Fame.

    I believe it is rather ridiculous to say the living H of Fers don’t want more members because it will cut their autograph income. Most of those with actual H of F credentials, and I’ll certainly be the first to say that that doesn’t include many of them, don’t remotely depend on this source of income for their standard of living. Don’t confuse them with O.J. Simpson and Pete Rose.

    A fully realize that my opinion is in the minority. I believe in strict quality. I have no use for watered down quantity. But, then, I am used to being in the minority. I didn’t vote for Obama either.

    • raysfan1 - Jan 10, 2013 at 11:07 PM

      Actually there are a lot of small hall guys, you are not alone. My problem is not your definition of quality per se, it’s that it’s untenable for a financially viable Hall of Fame.

      Also, almost 50% of the voters in the Presidential election did not vote for Obama, so you aren’t alone there either.

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