Comments on: The Justin Upton trade: The Braves get their man, the Diamondbacks do better than expected

By: buffalomafia

buffalomafia — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:17:02 +0000

What about third base? The Braves had an opportunity to get a good third baseman but didn’t do it?

They will make playoffs barring injury.

By: skids003

skids003 — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:12:04 +0000

How would you guys characterize Babe Ruth?

By: Chris Fiorentino

Chris Fiorentino — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 12:44:15 +0000

Sorry if I offended you Joe…I promise it will happen again.

By: joegolfer

joegolfer — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 07:14:50 +0000

Chris Fiorentino, you stated that you didn’t use the word “jerks”. Still, the whole tone of your post implied the same thing, even if you didn’t specifically use the word “jerk”. “Officially passed the Phillies fans on the smugness scale”, followed by another snide comment.
When you got called on it, you reacted like some high school boy trying to protect his manliness.
And then you rip the Nats fans again at the end of your follow-up post which was supposedly defending your position that you weren’t ripping on the Nats fans as jerks.
@recoveringcubsfan was correct. Natslady may sometimes screw up the facts or have differing opinions than the masses. So she forgot about a prominent pitcher. That’s no reason to tear her a new one. Just mention it like everyone else did.

By: joegolfer

joegolfer — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 06:58:24 +0000

Gotta also consider Mike Minor and Julio Tehran as potentials.

By: A.J.

A.J. — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 06:50:19 +0000

The Angels yes, the Dodgers quite likely if Crawford is Crawfordy again, and unless JUp takes a big step and BJ gets his OBP up.

The Nats are debatable unless Harper goes “Full Trout” this season but I do like Span. Still that one will probably be decided by whose young stars take the biggest step.

I just don’t see it with the Reds, especially if we’re including defense in the mix. With Choo playing CF compared with the D the Braves have that is a huge advantage ATL (not saying they are 3 Willie Mayses by any stretch, but BJ is solid, Jason is great and Justin has been really good when healthy too). Even if the Reds OF bats are better, which I don’t think, but will concede for arguments sake, I don’t think they are good enough to overcome the mess that Choo in CF could be.

By: joegolfer

joegolfer — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 06:48:09 +0000

Twitter isn’t exactly a scientific double blind study, Ben.
Besides, the terms gritty and hotheaded are seldom used anyway, whereas the term athletic is, regardless of race.
Seems like you’re trying to manufacture a story that isn’t there.
Yes, Atlanta’s outfield will be considered athletic, but not because of the color of the player’s skin.
They didn’t call Joltin’ Joe DiMaggio hotheaded either. Smooth, yes. Maybe they meant that all Italians are smooth and graceful.

By: mcjon22

mcjon22 — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 03:49:12 +0000

Hmm, Funny. ESPN said Atlanta got Upton for “50 cents on the dollar” in this trade, saying Prado is decent but is in a walk year, Delgado is a middle of the rotation guy at his peak, the other 2 prospects are ranked 7th and 9th respectfully in the Braves farm system. Just sayin’

By: phreakin

phreakin — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 23:39:31 +0000

A little birdie tells me Prado will be signing a 4 year, $50 million deal in the next 48-72 hours. As a side note, both teams are HOPING they make out the best in the deal. Anyone who criticizes Arizona for getting rid of Upton hasn’t been paying attention the last 2 years. The guy has the always prominent “superstar” potential as long as he’s not talked bad about, yelled at, or booed by anyone. If he is then watch out for the pouting Upton. The guy has all the talent in the world but lets EVERYTHING get to him. Gibby was Uptons biggest fan and defender because he believed in him. But he also pushed Upton to be the best he could be and Upton crumbled from the pressure. Hopefully since he won’t feel the need to be the man in Atlanta, he can focus more on just playing. If not, he won’t be in a Braves uniform when his contract is done in 3 years.

By: Dan the Mets Fan

Dan the Mets Fan — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 21:22:30 +0000

It is true that they are pretty good athletes overall, but I think the point behind the term “athletic” is that it sort of suggestion a superior physicality is the main reason behind your success as a player, whereas “gritty” suggests that you are using mental discipline and drive. Yes, it is an athletic outfield, but there are lots of athletic guys out there and not all of them actually play good defense. It’s also incorrect to say their athleticism is the main driver of their success: Justin Upton and Jason Heyward actually stole fewer bases last year than Ryan Braun, so it is not as if they are deriving their success through sheer athleticism. It’s wrong to assume that the reason they play such good defense is because of their raw athleticism and not for the variety of normal mental and physical factors that go into being a good defender.

Also, Delmon Young, in all fairness, is not a great counter-example considering he is the world’s fattest outfielder. If there is one guy that absolutely nobody could consider athletic, regardless of race, it’s him.

By: kiwicricket

kiwicricket — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 21:16:18 +0000

Dont ask, just go along with it.

By: stlouis1baseball

stlouis1baseball — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:43:15 +0000

Ben:
Are you saying Atlanta doesn’t have an athletic outfield?

Save it. This right here IS very much part of the problem….

“Now just wait for all the comments (not here, but in general) about Atlanta’s “athletic outfield” now that they have three black players out there.”

By: Francisco (FC)

Francisco (FC) — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:23:38 +0000

I was going to ask why step one has to involve sex but…

By: Alex K

Alex K — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:17:04 +0000

Sorry, that was a list from last year. I’m pretty sure he still has his prospect status, though since fangraphs has him listed as the Braves best prospect.

By: Alex K

Alex K — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:03:16 +0000

First, I said it was on any list I have ever seen so, yeah, never is the perfect word choice. Every list I saw last year had Bundy as the top pitching prospect. If you’re using MLB.com then Tehran is still listed as a prospect..at #24.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/

He’s still a great prospect, just not the best in MLB.

By: historiophiliac

historiophiliac — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:56:51 +0000

Oh, stex, you should hear the adjectives for women….

By: stabonerichard

stabonerichard — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:53:22 +0000

Yikes, let me try that last part again…

Prado is a nice player that the Braves sold high on before a) he hits age 30 and the downturn of his career, b) he becomes expensive. And with Upton, we’ve kinda known all along the Dbacks were going to end up selling low.

By: stabonerichard

stabonerichard — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:50:38 +0000

Yes, a glorified utility man… thru age 28 he’s had two seasons where he was an above-average everyday player.

Regarding his age, his closest bbref comp is Jeff Cirillo, whose last good year came at age 31. It doesn’t mean Prado is doomed to fall apart once he hits the wrong side of 30, but if I’m choosing between paying Upton ~$13M/yr for his age 25/26/27 seasons vs. paying Prado ~$10M at age 30 & beyond, it’s kinda ridiculous. And the rest of the filler the Dbacks received doesn’t come close to filling the gap IMO.

Prado is a nice player that the Braves sold high on before a) he hits age 30 and the downturn of his cUpton is an inconsistent youngareer, and b) he becomes expensive. And with Upton, we’ve kinda known all along the Dbacks were going to end up selling low.

By: webbza

webbza — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:37:26 +0000

As soon as Trout and Harper played enough games at the major league level last season, Teheran moved to #1 overall on MLB.com’s list of top 20 prospects and remained there the majority of the season. Watch out using the word never when you don’t know what you’re taking about.

By: stex52

stex52 — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:37:23 +0000

Damn. Since I never paid to attention to the systematic way in which adjectives are employed, I’m a racist.

I hate it when I’m like that.

By: webbza

webbza — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:31:40 +0000

It looks to me like the braves are building a team to score a lot of runs and let the bullpen ice the game after 6 or 7….this lineup has 6 maybe even 7 guys that should hit 20+ home runs this year. That’s a big change from where they were just 2 years ago. Good balance in the order as far as mixing up lefties and righties also.

By: Alex K

Alex K — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:29:42 +0000

I think you’re confusing “in the game” with “in the Braves system”. Tehran has never been the #1 rated prospect in the game on any list I’ve seen. He’s still their #1 prospect on lists I’ve seen this year.

By: webbza

webbza — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:28:53 +0000

Oh and Maholm is there to strictly chew up innings and provide another left handed arm…they’re not relying on him to do big things

By: ebrownwareagle

ebrownwareagle — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:28:30 +0000

Prado won’t be missed(injure prone)!The Upton’s will be accepted!

By: webbza

webbza — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:25:55 +0000

The #5 spot was going to be decided upon in spring training between Teheran and Delgado. Now that Delgado is gone the 5 belongs to Teheran. Also, Brandon Beachy (considered one of the best young pitchers on the rise until injury) will not be included in the group until midseason because he is still recovering from Tommy John. Then you fail to mention Mike Minor who finished last season on a tear and is projected to be an anchor in the rotation within the next couple years, if he can limit the number of long balls he gives up. I’m gonna say you don’t really know much about the Braves rotation…

By: 1943mrmojorisin1971

1943mrmojorisin1971 — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:15:37 +0000

Touche, sir, touche.

By: historiophiliac

historiophiliac — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:09:27 +0000

I see what you did there — using “athletic” to describe the white people.

By: professormaddog31

professormaddog31 — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:08:58 +0000

Ben – I’m glad that you brought up the rural poor, as they’ve had as many disadvantages as their inner city brethren, not the least of which are poor nutrition, poorly trained teachers, suspect health care options… I was one of those ‘rural poor’ people, my extended family lived in a hardscrabble house with a tin roof and different colored siding, who grew veggies to survive and not because of any sort of environmental cause. And even then, while we were getting the same block of government cheese and that nasty ass peanut butter that you have to stir and still never gets all the oil reincorporated, my racist father would say negative things about the nice black guy who lived down the hill from us.

I’ll admit, I had the drive in life to get the hell out of Arkansas and not be like my family. I had the brains to do it. I had the good fortune of being clever with computers and a public school system that allowed one to use said computers during lunch break and after classes. I was lucky to hook up with the spousal unit, who came from a much more well off family than I did, and I can pose as someone who didn’t grow up in a backwards, redneck home fairly well.

But not everyone has those same opportunities that I did. /end biography

That being said, is there a racial undertone to the word “scrappy”? Because that’s my favorite way to describe players I particularly like. Scrappy.

By: cur68

cur68 — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:55:05 +0000

Great comment. The Upton lads and Heyward will have to get by on their smarts. Their wits. Their intellect. If they want to compete with Trout, Bourjos & Hamilton’s natural grace and athleticism, they’ll have to use their smarts to play up to that level of skill and baseball instinct.

Carry on.

By: louhudson23

louhudson23 — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:50:24 +0000

Look at the brain on eshine….very nice…racism and the white power structure are still in place in society ,to be sure.And stereotypes affect all players,from hotheaded latins to athletic(ie not hardworking or smart,just talented)to gritty,smart(ie,slow and untalented) white players.But those stereo types and that white power structure are no where near what they once were. Refusing to base attitudes and observations on race can hardly be seen as denying systemic racism. Wish more folks concentrated on class system and not race.With the 1% income distribution currently in place for only the second time in the last 100 yearsand not since the period before the Great Depression(same for tax rates),business is not going to get better anytime soon…..racism is diverting,as always,which is not to deny in any way the pain inflicted upon the minority class…..as long as common people keep blaming those below them in the social structure(be they sharecroppers defending Jim Crow or the middle class blaming mexicans and welfare queens for the dismantling of our social structure and economy….those above piss(trickle) down,pissing uphill being a more difficult proposition…….Prado is the true prize and the Braves are going to miss him….playing third two years running will do him a world of good,Chipper finally gone and now they dump him to get a so far disappointing(I know,potential)younger Upton,who appears to be on the same career path as his older sibling…….