“There’s no crying in baseball.”

and “Who is Karim Garcia?”

As Brian Billick once said about Hines Ward, “I hate that guy…but I’d love to have him on my team.” No, I have always liked Pedro. A cool cat as far as I am concerned.

But throughout Martinez’s time in Boston he cared about himself first and everyone else second. Jimy Williams was the only manager who had the stones to call out Martinez when he constantly showed up late for games, and Williams even took away a start because PM was a major PITA.

And Martinez cost Grady Little his job when Little was too intimidated to take PM out in that playoff game in New York.

Again, great talent. But a typical Boston prima donna.

That said – great move by both squads.

Seriously though, he mastered the art of the change up and made a fool out of some of the best hitters in the best hitters era of the game. Triple digit heat is “sexy”, but A) you’ll most likely blow your elbow and/or shoulder (think Prior) and B) this is the Bigs; you’ll eventually get lit up (Farnsworth). There is almost no need for 12-6 curve balls or the like that put undo stress on your arm. Four seam, two seem, cutter, change-up; that’s it!

Even the best hitters can’t think fastball and react to change up or vice versa. If he can teach the philosophy of deception to some of these young kids, they may be able to have long succesful careers without so called “raw” power.

If a guy pitches on 3-days rest throughout his career, then it is no problem for him because his arm is used to it. When guys get 4-days rest, that is their routine and anything changed…even more rest…can sometimes hurt their production.

I don’t think pitching with less rest or more innings makes what Gibson, Koufax, etc did anything more than what Pedro did. You should compare how they pitched vs their contemporaries and what era. They raised the mound in 1963 which surely helped the guys you mentioned during their peak years. Koufax pitched on a newly raised mound while Pedro pitched in the era where steroids were prevalent.

I agree with this 100%, that’s why Pedro and even Maddux get the nod over Koufax because they pitched in the steroid era. Pedro’s ERA+ of 213 over his peak 7 years is as amazing a stat as you will probably find over any 7 year stretch, and his career ERA+ is 2nd all-time to Mo…so it’s basically 1st all-time among starters.

Pedro Martinez numbers from 1997-2003:
118-36 2.20 ERA (213 ERA+) 3 Cy Young awards, 2 2nd place finishes, 1 3rd
1408 Innings, 1761 Strikeouts, 315 walks, 1009 hits(LOL), 0.940 WHIP

Not a big WAR fan, but his was 55.4 during those 7 years…I guess an average of 8 WAR per year for a pitcher is pretty good.

I know many believe Koufax had the higher peak. Some will give you Maddux from 92-98. I will concede that Maddux 94-95 were better than ony two-year stretch for either Pedro or Koufax.

My favorite was and always will be Pedro. He is the all-time leader in throwing to the ground fat, big-mouthed, idiot Yankees bench coaches and for that, he will always remain dear to my heart.

They made me totally forget that there was a pitcher who put up a five year run at the height of the offensive explosion (1996-2000) with this as his *average* season:

17-9, 2,51 ERA, 242 IP, 212 K, 1.051 WHIP, 164 ERA+, 4.17 K/BB, 7.1 WAR

Kevin Brown was really, really, really goddamn good.