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Jeff Loria micromanages the Marlins even more than you think

Jan 28, 2013, 6:44 AM EDT

Image (1) Loria.jpg for post 4206

From Barry Jackson’s Sunday Buzz column in the Miami Herald, word that Jeffrey Loria, in addition to having zero credibility with fans and with free agents following his multiple purges and fire sales, keeps his team’s roster in a constant state of fear because he apparently decides who gets sent down to the minors himself. Often purely on whim:

The Marlins went without a third catcher in September because Loria was fed up with Brett Hayes. One player said word came down during a game that Chris Volstad would be demoted because of Loria’s unhappiness. “He had one bad start, and Loria was like, ‘He’s gone,’” another player said.

It leaves them walking on eggshells, the players say.

Check out the story. And be sure to read the last paragraph with the quote from a former Marlins player. Sick. Burn.

  1. Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 6:57 AM

    Waaahhh…the guy who writes our checks treats us badly. Waaahhhhh.

    Welcome to the real world boys.

    • thehypercritic - Jan 28, 2013 at 7:19 AM

      You realize the vast majority of this team had no say in selecting their employer and get paid well less than they would had they been allowed to pursue the free market like Americans in any other field, right?

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 7:26 AM

        Oh yeah, and everybody who works in America is in a job they chose, right? Working for an employer they chose, right? And are making six-figures to play a game on TV, right? LOL Give me a freaking break. If these guys don’t like it, go get a job in the real world. Otherwise, follow the rules YOUR UNION signed up for, suck it up for the 5-6 years it takes to become a free agent, and then sign somewhere else.

        I know I am in the minority on a site like this, where the players who treat it as a business can do no wrong and the owners who treat it like a business can do no right. So I fully expect a million thumbs down. But don’t insult people by trying to side with these cry babies who chose to be Major League Baseball players and are playing under an owner who is following the rules that were collectively bargained by both the owners and the players.

        I may have finally found the thing that Marvin Miller did for the game of baseball. Had he not stepped in and helped start the CBA and get the players free agency and other “rights” the game of baseball probably would have folded because the players would be crying every single day and their tears would flood the field.

      • thehypercritic - Jan 28, 2013 at 7:45 AM

        Yes, everyone else in America did choose the best employment offer their skills could get on the open market. They also got to choose the city they work and raise their family in.

        I understand you’d prefer playing baseball for the league minimum to your current lot in life, but you don’t have that particular skill set which creates millions in revenues so why are you so eager to back the billionaire who’s creating one of the worst working environments in the profession?

        The notion that players should tolerate nonsense simply because you’re jealous of them is embarrassing.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 7:53 AM

        The notion that “everyone else in America did choose the best employment offer their skills could get on the open market” is ridiculous. As if the economy has nothing to do with it…or hiring someone based on their salary demands and not their skills. Not to mention other reasons why people take whatever job they can get right now because they need to feed their families and even though they have a master’s degree, they have to work as a manager at Walmart because they need the dough in a tough market.

        I’m not jealous. I don’t give a crap what about these guys and what they make and what they do. I’m happy for them. They are a part of the 1% and they should freaking act that way instead of whining about how the guy who signs their checks expects them to PLAY BASEBALL WELL!!!!! It’s your frigging job. PLAY BASEBALL WELL!!!!!! It’s what the guy asks and they whine when he does what he can to motivate them. WAAAAAHHHHHH. He sent me down after a bad outing. THEN DON’T HAVE A BAD OUTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • brewcrewfan54 - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:32 AM

        So essentially you’re saying because they are the lucky ones who get to play a game for a living and make a pretty nice amount of money doing it they aren’t allowed to complain. Well these guys are people also and even though most people don’t like hearing rich people complain about their first world problems sometimes they hate their jobs just like us.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:37 AM

        Yes, brew. I am mocking the millionaires for whining about their jobs. Just as I mocked Phil Mickelson for whining about his taxes. However, unlike most on this site, I am quite consistent. Same people I saw talking negatively about Phil’s whining about his taxes now take the side of the millionaire players. It’s pathetic.

      • brewcrewfan54 - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:46 AM

        Just because you’re consistent doesn’t make it better. These players aren’t complaining about money as Phil was. These players are complaining about him not helping create a great work environment. That’s not a great way to run things.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 9:05 AM

        I guess maybe I’m just coming off seeing Louis CK and JIm Gaffigan in the same week, but to me it’s all #RichPeopleProblems and I have no sympathy for any of them. Whether it’s a wah wah because we paid too much taxes or a wah wah our boss watches our games and shows displeasure when we do poorly. It’s incredible that someone would actually side with a player who complains that their owner showed his feelings of being upset at a bad play during a game. Seriously???

      • brewcrewfan54 - Jan 28, 2013 at 9:17 AM

        I think you’re missing the overall point. Yeah some of the complaints are kind of silly but its all part of the bigger picture. Add all the little things up and he’s creating an environment that’s making it harder for his players to be successful. That’s a problem whether you’re in a billion dollar professional sport or flipping burgers for minimum wage.

      • historiophiliac - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:21 AM

        Get your money for nothing and your chicks for freeeee….yeah, that’s the way to do it…

      • djpostl - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:24 PM

        @Chris Fiorentino shit for brains…you didn’t get drafted into an organization and then forced to work there for six years (or until they trade you) so he was spot on you jackass.

        You, me, anyone else actually has the choice to walk out the door today and try to find gainful employment in the same field. Players do not.

        So try and bitch like a candyass more and get at least a basic understanding of the process.

    • paperlions - Jan 28, 2013 at 7:39 AM

      Yes, and everyone bitches when they have a capricious shitty boss. So you are criticizing players for being just like everyone else….and you are doing it by whining about the fact that you don’t like whiny players. I have no doubt you’d be one of the most frequent anonymous sources whining to the media had you the skills to be a pro athlete.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 7:45 AM

        Do you really think I would be an anonymous source? Do you see “paperlions”, “bicepts”, “hypercritic” or any other screen name on my postings? Or do you see my actual name? I don’t hide behind nothing whether I am here, or whether I post anywhere else.

        Did you even read the article linked? How much these guys are whining about every little thing Loria does? From looking into the dugout during a game…to giving speeches in the clubhouse…to trying to motivate them by bringing up their last championship season(2003)…to meddling in personnel decisions. Big deal. It’s his team and he can do whatever he wants as long as it is within the rules. The difference between these guys and those of us who live in the real world is that 90% of us aren’t making a minimum of 6-figures and we aren’t playing a kid’s game.

        But yeah, stay on the side of the whining baby players. It’s befitting of the wussification of America to side with a bunch of whining millionaires.

      • thehypercritic - Jan 28, 2013 at 7:57 AM

        How much do you have to hate baseball to sneeringly refer to their job as “playing a kid’s game”? They are world class athletes with among the rarest of skill sets on Earth.

        These men, undoubtedly entitled and arrogant, are at the pinnacle of an elite and competitive profession. You know how many doctors there are in the world? Lawyers? Professors?

        There are roughly ~800 Major League Baseball players when accounting for DL spots. The 800 best on the planet — that’s whose compensation you’re considering. Not a lucky few men “playing a kid’s game”.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:20 AM

        Wait…what? I’m sorry…you are right. When I drive home from work I ususally see kids in the playground playing “Courtroom” or “Operating Room” in the park. My fault. And if you don’t see 800 people out of 7 Billion as “a few lucky men” then we must live on two different planets.

        But you are starting to take what I said initially out of context. I never once complained about what baseball players make on its own merit. Nor did I ever say that the 800 MLB players aren’t world-class athletes, most of whom worked very hard to get where they are at and they deserve to make all the millions that they make.

        No, my complaint is that THEY are complaining about how they are being treated by the person who signs their checks. Sure, like paperbag said, no different than any of us. Except they make a gazillion bucks to do what they do unlike 99.9% of the rest of the population who does not.

        Funny how the same people siding with the players here are probably the same one who ripped Phil Mickelson for complaining about the amount of taxes he has to pay…as if they aren’t just about the same thing at hear… Millionaires whining about things being unfair. Woe is us.

      • thehypercritic - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:34 AM

        What little leaguers do on your drive home has roughly as much in common with playing 162 major league baseball games in 180 days as the job of a high school class president has with Barack Obama’s job.

        Suggesting it’s luck that got these people to the pinnacle of their profession is an insult to the year-round commitment that it takes to make it.

        As for their off the record complaints about Loria making the work environment worse than it need be, I’m probably too biased against the man to give it a fair hearing.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:39 AM

        “As for their off the record complaints about Loria making the work environment worse than it need be, I’m probably too biased against the man to give it a fair hearing.”

        This is the only fair thing you have written. The rest is taking my point completely out of context. They are millionaires whining about having to “walk on egg shells” because the guy who writes their million dollar checks “might not like them after a bad outing” Wahh wahh wahh. What “luck” has to do with that I have no idea.

      • realgone2 - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:27 AM

        Chris is an idiot. Hey why don’t you write another 50 paragraphs to prove how much of a jerk off you are.

      • raysfan1 - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:48 AM

        Why jump on Chris for calling MLB players lucky? He did not say they don’t work hard, or even implied it. Luck and hard work are both required to get to be MLB players. In addition to hard work you have to have the right genetic make up, not be hurt or sick during a critical time in development, have good coaching to develop latent skills, not have something happen to kill your love of playing a game, get noticed by scouts, etc.

        All Chris is really saying is that he does not like to hear millionaires complain about their work environment. I basically agree with him there.

        Kind of rare for me to agree with, and defend Chris, but when you’re right, you’re right.

      • djpostl - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:28 PM

        @Chris Fiorentino you could be the dumbest motherfucker who ever ended up on these forums….and my God that says A LOT.

        “stay on the side of the whining baby players. It’s befitting of the wussification of America to side with a bunch of whining millionaires.”

        As you stay on the side of the whining EVEN BIGGER MILLIONAIRE. You can’t back the guy with the most money and then claim you’re on the side of the little guy.\

        The choices are A. the douche bag owner who is not only a jackass but a bad employer or B. the rich guys who don’t have nearly as much money as the other rich guy.

        There is no “C”. Get it through that thick ass skull, which no doubt has a protruding brow ridge and harbors a brain the size of a decent sized grain of rice.

    • heyblueyoustink - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:22 AM

      Boys, timeout!

      It’s a Monday morning, everyone go pop a xanax, reduce the cafiene intake, and we can meet again in the afternoon.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:33 AM

        Heyblue…I’m finished with the debate anyway. It’s simply two ways of looking at an article. One way thinks the players who make millions to do their jobs are OK to whine about the man who signs their checks having the audacity to “making them walk on eggshells when they have a bad outing” or actually have the nerve to be “talking to the team as a group” or he cares about the team enough to “has disgusted look or throws up his hands when one of them fails” which are all direct quotes from the article. The other way thinks that if they would do their jobs, and not fail and not have “bad outings” none of this would be happening.

        To each his or her own I guess.

      • chacochicken - Jan 28, 2013 at 9:14 AM

        Since Loria has effectively ruined two franchises in his tenure as MLB owner, it is difficult to not treat him with fear and loathing. Who has a greater sense of entitlement than “build me a new stadium or I’ll take my team elsewhere” or “hell, I’ll just eat the team to further line my pockets”?

        Now if you were talking about any other owner, out there yelling in the stands and asking for a heightened level of accountability then you might be justified in telling players to suck it up. Players that sign with Miami are making a deal with the devil for sure but those poor bastards traded to or drafted by are just out of luck.

        I bet one of Loria’s ancestors sold Venetian orphans to the Turkish army.

    • indaburg - Jan 28, 2013 at 9:23 AM

      It is well within Loria’s rights as an owner to act as vindictively or dickishly as he wants. His money, he signs the checks, right? At the same time, it’s simply not the smartest or most efficient way to get the most out of your investment. People don’t typically respond well to negative reinforcement.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 9:34 AM

        100% true indaburg…I agree with everything you wrote. And my first post wasn’t about whether Loria was right or wrong. My post was calling out the millionaires whining about the guy who signs their checks wah wahing…as if they work they counter at Los Pollos Hermanos for minimum wage. When you make a certain amount of money, you lose the right to get sympathy from me for your “terrible working conditions”. Others disagree…that’s why they make regular white crystal meth and Heisenberg’s blue crystal meth.

        Do I think Loria is a good owner for the success of a baseball team? Shit no!!!! But is he a good businessman for making himself some serious guaranteed cash? Absolutely. And until baseball does a better job of vetting the process and letting in guys like Loria, McCourt, etc. while keeping out guys like Mark Cuban, then they deserve every single bit of the aggravation they get.

      • indaburg - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:29 AM

        But we humans also have a need for esteem and respect, and that doesn’t go away with the size of the paycheck. Do I pity these players? No. Do I understand how they feel? Having worked for some shitty bosses, yes, I can empathize. No matter the size of your paycheck, it sucks to work for a micromanager who makes you feel like one mistake will cost you your job. Don’t forget too that some of these players are journeyman types, not multi-millionaires, who could easily find themselves unemployed due to Loria’s whims.

      • Old Gator - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:00 AM

        Is blue crystal meth why Heisenberg couldn’t tell the speed and location of a particle at the same time?

        Speed and location.

        Get it?

        Hahahah…hah…….hah….ha…..

        Okay, never mind.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:54 AM

        “Do I pity these players? No.”

        indaburg, That was exactly my point…neither do I. You choose to be nice about it because you are probably, in general, nice. I was snarky because it’s who I am.

        OG, the blue crystal meth and Heisenberg reference was to Breaking Bad, which is the greatest show on TV. I figured I already used Los Pollos Hermanos, so I might as well double-dip.

      • Old Gator - Jan 28, 2013 at 3:13 PM

        Chris – yeah, I know that – one of the best shows on cable these days – but hell, look at what you handed me. I just couldn’t resist.

    • Roger Moore - Jan 28, 2013 at 9:59 AM

      Yeah, they should just shut up because nobody else whose boss sucks ever complains about it. Who’s the one who needs an introduction to the real world?

      • chacochicken - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:58 AM

        I’m curious how this article about how a terrible owner who has wrecked two major league teams and shockingly is a skinflint, meddling, knows-nothing-about-baseball, smarmy charlatan descends into “Players complain too much. They make lots of money thereby waiving all right to opinion.” Generally, those whose initial points fail tend to keep sidestepping/backpedaling away from their original arguments until we all agree that cake clearly exceeds pie as a dessert.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:58 AM

        I liked Sean Connery much better. I like Daniel Craig second and Pierce Brosnan third. I even thought Timothy Dalton was better than you. You peaked in Cannonball Run.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 11:01 AM

        Hey chac…I’m curious as to how me saying

        “Waaahhh…the guy who writes our checks treats us badly. Waaahhhhh. Welcome to the real world boys.”

        descends into me hating baseball, saying players complain too much, and that they have all waived all their rights to an opinion?

      • chacochicken - Jan 28, 2013 at 11:27 AM

        Nobody enjoys going to the stadium, getting drunk, and screaming at players, however this isn’t about the ability of players to absorb abuse. Loria isn’t a stern no non-sense boss demanding honorable success, he’s more of a kid stomping on ants. Highly competitive players that understand the sample size of one bad performance would hate an owner who thinks he entitled to wins because he’s spent a lot of money foolishly and for all intents robbed a major metropolitan area.

    • historiophiliac - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:01 AM

      Sometimes I’m really unclear why you watch baseball.

      • Old Gator - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:09 AM

        Why? Because when the cameras are rolling, I can judge the speed of the baseball, and when they’re in freeze-frame, I can judge its position – something Heisenberg never thought about.

        Oh. You weren’t talking to me, were you?

        Ah.

      • historiophiliac - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:12 AM

        Gator, honey, I’m ALWAYS talking to you.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:51 AM

        So those who watch baseball should side with the players on everything they say or do? Weird.

      • historiophiliac - Jan 28, 2013 at 11:18 AM

        No, because you seem to dislike players so much that it seems strange that you would be a fan of watching them play. I get the feeling that you would rather watch a video feed of Loria’s staff meetings.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 11:23 AM

        I never said I dislike players. Don’t know where you got that from. I said they are whining about their boss getting on them for not doing their jobs. Wah Wah. Where did I say I didn’t like them?

        Just because I sided with “the devil” means I hate players. You guys and gals are unbelievable sometimes.

      • historiophiliac - Jan 28, 2013 at 11:29 AM

        No, I get it. You’re just a Loria homer. Ok.

      • nolanwiffle - Jan 28, 2013 at 12:11 PM

        If I recall correctly, Chris Firentino is on record as saying he’s not a baseball fan….he’s a Phillies fan.

        Interpret that as you see fit.

    • Old Gator - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:07 AM

      Incidentally, while we’re talking about Scrooge McLoria’s feral instincts for gaming the system that was dumb enough to admit him in the first place, I note that when you enter the Macondo Feeshwrapper stories via the links Craig et al provide here on Circling the Bases, you don’t get your “reading experience” (contemporary fecalspeak) interdicted by an ineradicable popup box demanding a subscription access payment, as you would if you tried to enter the Feeshwrapper via its own web site. Neat. I can read the entire useless rag without interruption by jumping from Craig’s link without – so far – being spotted by the guardians of the gate.

      I feel like Richard Burton in Mecca. Thanks, Craig.

    • cosanostra71 - Jan 28, 2013 at 11:34 AM

      Chris, what is the income threshold where it becomes appropriate to complain about your boss? Are minor leaguers who make closer to the average American wage allowed to complain?

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 12:22 PM

        Yes

      • cosanostra71 - Jan 28, 2013 at 2:54 PM

        No seriously though, I’m curious. At what point does your income make it inappropriate to complain about your boss? $75,000? $100,000? $500,000? $1 million?

  2. whmiv21 - Jan 28, 2013 at 7:11 AM

    Looks like he gets pretty angry when the team loses.

    One wonders just why this team loses?

  3. flosox - Jan 28, 2013 at 7:27 AM

    Nothing like a little negative reinforcement…cuz thats good for the psyche! when I feel like I can’t despise this individual anymore than I already do, he comes out of nowhere to piss me off even more.

    I don’t care what your salary is, an employee will always be less productive when they feel like they don’t have the support of the boss. You get more flies with honey than you do vinegar.

    • paperlions - Jan 28, 2013 at 7:36 AM

      I always have hated that saying. You get far more flies with shit or a carcass than you do honey….and why the heck would you want to attract flies anyway? Just a weird saying to have such staying power.

      • historiophiliac - Jan 28, 2013 at 11:24 AM

        You get barflies with T-shirts.

      • paperlions - Jan 28, 2013 at 7:44 PM

        Man, good one…..you’re just never letting that go are you? I hope not, it’ll get funnier (at least, to me) over time.

      • historiophiliac - Jan 28, 2013 at 11:49 PM

        Fine, I’ll lay off. Just busting your chops a little. You just seemed so earnest about it. lol

      • paperlions - Jan 29, 2013 at 7:09 AM

        Well, think of how much more personal a T-shirt is….it can tell you what kind a beer a person drinks, what music they like, which sports teams they support, etc. A suit just says “I have to wear this because of my job” or “someone died and I am going to pay my respects”

      • historiophiliac - Jan 29, 2013 at 7:55 AM

        Last night, I saw a 10 year old boy in a Hooters t-shirt at the convenience store. He’s on his way!

        Now that you tell me I can judge a man by his T-shirts, I see it in a whole new way…rather than: I rolled out of bed & this was clean & required no ironing.

      • paperlions - Jan 29, 2013 at 8:52 AM

        You’re welcome. :-)

      • historiophiliac - Jan 29, 2013 at 9:10 AM

        I’m gonna have to get some new t-shirts now that I know I get judged by them…

      • paperlions - Jan 29, 2013 at 9:13 AM

        Hey, no cheating the system, only honest T-shirt propaganda is allowed. First violation is a 30 day suspension from wearing t-shirts…..third violation is a lifetime ban (though blank t-shirts are allowed, of course).

  4. chacochicken - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:22 AM

    I’d wager that Loria sells sports memorabilia on the side.

    • Old Gator - Jan 28, 2013 at 10:11 AM

      Close. He was the first to sell signed lithographs of Charlie Brown pitching as an artist’s rep for Charles Schultz.

      Really.

  5. brewcrewfan54 - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:33 AM

    I don’t think it’s a good idea to run your Major League Baseball franchise like your Yahoo! Fantasy team.

    • natslady - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:41 AM

      Right. I think that’s the essential point. I’m trying to imagine Mark or Ted Lerner telling Mike Rizzo to demote some guy… Lerner apparently got involved in the Soriano signing, but that was big bucks, so, OK, ya gotta check with the boss.

      Davey has a saying, “I don’t audition players.” By that he means he doesn’t go by one bad outing. If you went by one bad outing, Mariano Rivera wouldn’t be going to the Hall of Fame.

  6. natslady - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:54 AM

    And, as long as I’m here.

    Fans have a right to criticize GMs. That’s different than pretending you ARE a GM, with a GM’s lifetime experience and staff. Fans also have a right to criticize teams’ medical decisions–that’s also different than claiming you are a doctor or trainer. (This is in reference to Danny Espinosa). Nats fans in particular are troubled by the team’s history of players who play injured and the trainers either don’t know or approve it. (OTOH, what you don’t hear about is the great number of players who “play through” it and DON’T hurt the team.)

    At what point do you question whether your team has the right medical staff? Like Davey, I don’t audition medical staffs. Even if the medical staff makes a mistake on one player, if the overall record is good and the procedures in place are good, OK. But if there is a record of poor performance, then even a person who is not a doctor starts to ask, “What is going on here?”

    To the point of this thread. It’s a little different when the owner overrides the GM, because the owner is, in the end, the boss. If he is not happy with the performance of the GM, then he needs to hire a different one, NOT act as the GM himself. (Jerry Jones, notwithstanding).

    • paperlions - Jan 28, 2013 at 9:06 AM

      The last point is exactly the point. If, as owner, you want to act as GM, then don’t hire one. At least Jerry Jones, takes it on himself, instead of hiring a GM as a puppet and then firing the puppet when it was he that pulled the wrong strings.

      RE: fans and team medical staffs. It seems to me that every team thinks their medical staff is quasi-incompetent or worse. I think it is the nature of the beast. They try to reduce the amount of time a player misses, if there is a set back, the staff is blamed even though set backs are common regardless of the rehab/recovery procedure. If the staff tries something that doesn’t work and then they have to go to plan B, they get blamed again….even though in medicine the first approach at a cure/fix commonly doesn’t work, especially when it is that approach is often the fastest/least invasive option (which often isn’t the first option because it has the best chance at success, but because it is the least invasive).

      • natslady - Jan 28, 2013 at 9:15 AM

        Paper, as I said, I don’t go by one medical decision. But either the Nats are more public about their medical decision, or they make more “mistakes.” Now, it could be the former. The Nats have been very open about Ryan Zimmerman’s treatment, LaRoche’s surgery (after being OK’d to “play through it”) and now Danny Espinosa announcing at NatsFest that he will be rehabbing and playing with an injury instead of having surgery. (There have been other situations, such as Sean Burnett and Henry Rodriguez “concealing” injuries that eventually required surgery.) I don’t know the answer, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a question.

      • natslady - Jan 28, 2013 at 9:27 AM

        Also, the Nats have a tremendously good record on caring for and rehabbing pitchers (and I’m not just referring to No. 37)–and that record is known by trainers, pitchers, and their agents. So I’m not just randomly blasting the Nats’ trainers. I’m asking why they are excellent with pitchers but the record is not as good with position players–apparently.

      • paperlions - Jan 28, 2013 at 9:33 AM

        I understand. I am just saying that fans of EVERY team find reason to bash the medical staff. Just like drafting, medicine is not a perfect science, and by luck sometimes you appear to be better or worse at it than you really are. Fans have no right whatsoever to know the medicals of players, and have no reason to believe that whatever is announced is the entire story.

  7. slavetothetrafficlight - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:59 AM

    This could have been you, Montreal.

    • DelawarePhilliesFan - Jan 28, 2013 at 9:27 AM

      It is them. That is why they have no team – Loria took a solid franchise and killed it, but lined his pockets just fine

  8. futbolhistorian - Jan 28, 2013 at 9:32 AM

    People are missing the point. Yes athletes can be whiners, and don’t know what they have, and make too much money, and have it easier than us, and all that bla bla bla. Yes, correct.

    But all teams have those same whiners and spoiled athletes. So you can either make your team either competitive as it relates to the other teams in your sport, your can choose not to. I think the point is that Loria does Marlins fans no favors by creating an environment that takes away from the ability to be as competitive as possible within the industry that you run your business in.

  9. Old Gator - Jan 28, 2013 at 9:48 AM

    Ahem…what’s interesting here is that Barry Jackson has apparently Mad-Libbed Jeff Passan’s repeated allegations that it is the Chihuahua who delivers the threats and intimidation, primping about and buttonholing players in the dugout and locker room, not Scrooge McLoria. But, the story is more or less consistent – the meeserable owner of the Feesh has confabulated a culture of dishonesty, intimidation and vindictiveness that runs right through this team, from its executive orifices to its play on the field.

    Even so, I have to agree with Chris here – these ballplayers don’t have the usual worries of most working people, like, uh, having enough money every month to pay for their mortgages, health insurance and car payments. So to fill out their quota of kvetch time, they complain that their boss is an asshole rather more loudly and publicly than most of us would get away with complaining about it. With very very few exceptions, that breaks my heart.

    But that’s a separate matter from acknowledging, as a fan, that Scrooge and the Chihuahua are a couple of meeserable assholes. The relationship of a fan to a team inverts the relationship of a player to a team, and a fan’s allocation of kvetch time stands in relation to his relation to the team the way the player’s salary stands in relation to the team. Maybe it sits or lies down in relation too. Whatever. In fact, I would go so far as to say that, relatively speaking, the fan’s entitlement to kvetch is more substantial than the player’s salary in relation to the relation in which they stand, sit or lie down in relation to the team.

    This is actually more complicated than it even sounds.

    • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 11:07 AM

      Thank you OG. I truly appreciate it because sometimes I feel like I am talking to a brick wall with some of the commenters who just want to pick fights with me for the sake of argument. Something I sometimes expect, but in this case, i was pretty surprised with all the negativity about my initial comment.

      • FrustratedDolFan - Jan 28, 2013 at 1:28 PM

        Chris I think we get what you have been trying to say and I commend you for defending your stance throughout. However, I do disagree with how you compare a professional baseball player with your average Joe. Having played the game at a high level and now having a son trying to do the same most people can’t comprehend the amount of sacrifice it takes to reach that point. Baseball requires precise timing that can only be developed through repeated practice. Watch the documentary “Pelateros” and let me know how many people you know have worked that hard to master their everyday job…no comparison.

        I think we can all agree Loria and his astronomical ego are not good for the game. Maybe Micky Arison will buy this team and finally we can have something to look forward to. Last year I took my family to opening day traveling all the way from VA and this year I am debating whether to even sign up for the MLB package.

      • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 1:50 PM

        The debate got out of control to the point where it may have sounded like I was saying being a professional baseball player is easy. It’s not and I never said it was. But it’s also not as hard as being a janitor cleaning toilets for $10 an hour to pay their rent and feed their families paycheck to paycheck. They are under more stress than all of the 800+ MLB players combined. Those 800+ MLB players, while I will admit they have worked very hard to get where they are, do not get sympathy from me for “walking on eggshells” because they play for Jeffrey Loria. Sure, Loria is terrible for baseball…especially for Marlins fans. But that doesn’t mean I have to feel bad for the Marlin players who are pampered like movie stars. These are guys who don’t have to carry their own bags and even the balls in batting practice are white.

        Good luck to your son…I hope he makes it all the way to the show.

  10. kalinedrive - Jan 28, 2013 at 2:22 PM

    I’d rather read about millionaires complaining about their boss than Chris complaining about millionaires complaining about their boss. Good lord, that was an annoying waste of my time. And now he’ll probably reply to me to make himself feel more important, or better, or whatever his obsession is.

    Give it a fricking break. Give us a fricking break. Give yourself a fricking break. Repetition doesn’t improve the point. Sometimes it just beats it into the ground until nobody cares any more. George Kennedy could keep knocking down Paul Newman in the prison yard but eventually people just walked away.

    • Chris Fiorentino - Jan 28, 2013 at 2:33 PM

      Blow me. That short enough for you fuckstick?

      • Old Gator - Jan 28, 2013 at 3:18 PM

        Back to basics. It was all getting too highbrow.

        Can someone help me find the way back to my steam grating? I hear we’ve got some snow coming.

      • kalinedrive - Jan 28, 2013 at 4:59 PM

        Still two words too long, shitface.

    • historiophiliac - Jan 28, 2013 at 3:13 PM

      kaline wins!

  11. basset11hound - Jan 28, 2013 at 8:45 PM

    Normally I’d say the players have a right. But due to the fact they make millions, as does the owner..or maybe it is billions, I’d say they get what they deserve when they decide to come to Miami and play for a OCD owner, who has decimated the team over the past year. However, it is becoming like this all over the sports world…greed…..greed..greed!

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