Well not everyone who took them was already one of the 20 greatest players of all time in the case of Bonds. The pitchers argument doesn’t hold water because even if we assume there was one pitcher on steroids for everyone one hitter the overall offensive numbers for the era were astronomical.

“The whole background for Bonds’s steroid use is he was pissed at the national attention paid to McGwire and Sosa during their epic HR chase in ’98. It’s not possible for that narrative to be true if he was already taking it.

You’re right I meant that he started taking them after the 98 season. I had assumed that meant he started in the months following the end of the season which would still have been 98, but in either case the point is the same.

We may not have the information we need to put any given “PED” in the right category, but we have every right to distinguish between substances based on what we do know or think we know.

The players should not be above regular humans, (otherwise we’d watch robot baseball.) When everyone can easily go to their doctor (not a quack job) and get a perscription for PED’s so they can be ripped, is when PED’s will become less stigmatized. I’m not talking for medical reasons, I mean we can walk in there and say “I wanna be ripped, what can you do for me?” I can get a cortizone shot perscribed by a doctor just like a baseball player. This is why there are parts of the rules about regular perscriptions by doctors. Basically what’s ok for players is ok for regular people.

So:
1) Cup
2) Icy Hot (apply where on person? If you say “cup” I shall suspect you aren’t helping)
3) Eye Black
4) Phiten Necklace
5) Beta Blockers to keep the tears under control (I have no idea if this works, by the way, but I BELIEVE in PEDS)
6) Shirt
7) Valverde Dance
8) Spit 3 times (might be tough after Beta Blockers)
9) Get into catcher’s crouch, drop throwing hand into groin, fan fingers, and waggle them

That it? I’m going to have enough trouble recalling all the statistical work so that list better not get any longer.

The ‘eye test’ is actually pretty revealing when applied to weightlifting and spending 5 days a week in a gym. Some guys strength and muscularity are physically impossible when considering their training habits/diet, without the aid of steroids.

This is true, but the phrase we should key in on is “Some guys”. You can take two people, brothers even, we’ll call them Jeremy and Jason, could take PEDs/’roids and the benefits can wildly vary.

* might be <5% science, by volume. some restrictions apply

I think that’s why discussions of PEDs tend to produce so much heat and so little light. People are trying to come up for logical arguments for what are basically emotional positions. That’s futile effort, since you can’t reason somebody out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.

There is a disturbingly large difference between these supplements and steroids.

Had friends take them, trained with guys who just started taking them and seen the effects. Not many things on earth can make you lift twice your natural amount in only several months, but make your body shrivel up like a roast chicken left in the oven for 6hrs when stopped.

The ‘eye test’ is actually pretty revealing when applied to weightlifting and spending 5 days a week in a gym. Some guys strength and muscularity are physically impossible when considering their training habits/diet, without the aid of steroids.

*Just my observations after lifting obsessively for a decade, not touching on any argument in particular other than anabolic steroids can transform your body into something its not physically capable of becoming naturally.

People for the most part are incapable of or unwilling to think critically. Those who do are treated like weirdos.