Fryman had some better single seasons, but in the aggregate he and Young are worth about the same

I didn’t know anybody had ever defined what constituted a “spectacular play”, or counted how many of them each 3rd Baseman made, especially for those players from the pre-cable tv era. Are you sure Mike Schmidt made as many spectacular plays as Nettles or Boyer? Or how about the really old guys like Jimmy Collins and Pie Traynor? Do you how many spectacular plays they made?

As for Gold Gloves, I don’t dismiss them, but it’s fairly obvious (to many, anyway) that: a) quite often offensive production comes into play in the voting (which would give Schmidt quite an edge!); and b) once a player wins one, he’s likely to have an edge in voting for several years simply by reputation. Gold Gloves are frustrating because they often get it so right, but seemingly just as often get it so wrong. I agree, 10 GGs is impressive. At the same time, he didn’t have a lot of competition. The NL during Schmidt’s era was not nearly as deep in defensive 3Bmen as the AL during Boyer’s and Nettles’ eras. How many GG’s would Boyer or Nettles have won were they not competing with Robinson? Not to mention Aurelio Rodriguez, Buddy Bell, and Don Money, who were all recognized as stellar defenders.

I’m not saying Schmidt is not in the conversation. It just seems to me that it’s pretty ludicrous to state unequivocally that Schmidt, or anyone, is 2nd best, end of story, there is no conversation – especially in an area that’s as hard to judge as defensive prowess.

Good player. Not close to a hall of famer.

Michael Young is about 9 months removed from becoming the Poster Child for the stat “Park Factor”. But this outcome will be blamed by many on “nerds in their mother’s basement”.

If he hits .300 this year, it will be a product of hitting in CBP. if he makes no errors…well…errors don’t mean anything at all. If he wins the GG…Gold Gloves are overrated. If he’s top 5 in MVP…the BBWAA are a bunch of idiots. If he knocks in 100 runs, who cares about RBIs.

The only way Michael Young will get respect on this board is if his WAR is 5 or better. Because, while the people on this board like to disagree, WAR is the be-all end-all for you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let the thumbs downs commence

Where was I?

Oh…yeah Craig. Knock it off. You fon’t know one thing about Michael Young.
You also fon’t have to bash the Phillies all the time. I fon’t appreciate it one bit.

You know what? Phuq it. I fon’t care anymore.

Jimmy Rollins

That said, Michael Young has hit over .300 seven times and had a career-best .338 batting average in 2011.

Tony Gwynn hit over .350 seven times and has a career .338 batting average.

Gwynn played in a pitcher’s ballpark in a low-offense era. Young played in a hitters ballpark in a high offense era. Gwynn was alos a better base runner and better fielder.

So maybe in your mind these two guys have the same basic profile – they get a lot of hits. But that alone doesn’t make them equals. Gwynn did that one thing a whole lot better than Michael Young does.

You could make much the same argument that Carlos Pena in many ways reminds you of Harmon Killebrew: lots of homers, lots of walks, low batting average. But they obviously aren’t of the same caliber. You don’t need sabermetrics to make the distinction.

I guess I am in the middle of this too, but I surely respect Michael’s hitting.

My opinion lies somewhere in between.

Greatest fielding 3rd basemen of all time:
1) Brooks
2) Schmidt
3) Everyone else

Then you have guys like Boyer, Nettles, and more recent guys like Rolen, Chavez, and Beltre eventually will get into the conversation I am sure. But nobody else is in the conversation for the top 2.

Just my $.02

But he’ll hang on the ballot with cases made for him about intangibles (already hear about being a professional hitter, even though he’s walked just 80 times in his last 1340 PA’s), like Jack Morris, and be praised for how he did it clean. However, he is a 7-time All Star and won a gold glove (like a gold glove means much), with a career .301 BA.

Objective assessments of Mike Young are not an anti-philly crusade. They just are not.

…which would have been HILARIOUS, now that I think of it.

And he was clearly the best SS/2B/3B/DH of the 2000s.