Comments on: Brandon McCarthy: Pitcher wins and RBI “absurd”

By: 80fightins08

80fightins08 — Sun, 10 Mar 2013 13:00:31 +0000

I understand the arguments made against wins. But WAR is not something I can really get behind. WAR is different depending on its source. I read an article where a guy had a positive WAR on one source and a negative one on the other. Stat geeks are all over themselves finding the anomaly (king Felix), and ignore where their stats fail. Advanced metrics certainly have their place in analysis, but please, not in my living room or at the bar.

By: ndrick731

ndrick731 — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 21:15:12 +0000

The object of the game is to win. The object of the athlete is to get paid. The object of the team is to make money. The team will use the stat that allows them to pay the least. The athlete will use the stat that will get him the most money. Most teams want to win because it makes them more money. Most athletes are only interested in winning if it doesn’t cost them money. And the fan gets screwed. Where is the stat for that.

By: illegalblues

illegalblues — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 18:38:30 +0000

this stuff isn’t hard to get, you just have to look up how the advanced metric works. doesn’t really work when you just assume stuff, ya know? i’ll help if you want, i have links.

By: deadeyedesign23

deadeyedesign23 — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 18:28:47 +0000

Wins and Pitcher Wins are not the same stat.

In 2010 Felix Hernandez had 13 Wins and we can probably all agree he was at least a top 5 pitcher in baseball that year. That same year Tyler Clippard had 11 wins as the set up man for the Nationals, averaging a bit more than 1 inning per appearance. The mere fact that you can say that Tyler Clippard was very nearly the same pitcher as Felix Hernandez base don this stat should tell you why it’s not very useful.

By: Detroit Michael

Detroit Michael — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 16:02:27 +0000

The category of Miguel Cabrera fans and the category of fans who think that RBIs are relatively uninformative are not mutually exclusive.

By: Detroit Michael

Detroit Michael — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 16:01:11 +0000

You are misinformed.

Pitchers’ wins and RBIs are not components on WAR. At least not on fWAR nor b-refWAR.

By: ezthinking

ezthinking — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 15:52:08 +0000

Everytime I read something like this, I realize there are more and more extremist dipshits when is comes to stats. Wins and RBI certainly are not the end-all-be-all of stats, but they certainly aren’t worthless. Oddly they are components of WAR.

Greinke won the ’09 Cy Young in part with the best ERA in baseball, tie for third most wins, and had the third most K’s in baseball.

“as he utilized stats to help him win the 2009 AL Cy Young award.” So does every CY Young winner. No stats means they didn’t play.

By: raysfan1

raysfan1 — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 14:00:48 +0000

Nobody is saying wins aren’t important. Wins of course are the ultimate team performance measurement.

Attributing wins to individual pitchers, however, does a poor job of showing how good or bad a pitcher is. You don’t even have to use Sabermetrics to demonstrate this…

In 2010 Felix Hernandez led the majors with a 2.27 ERA in 249 innings pitched. He was outstanding. He won the Cy Young Award. His Win-loss record was 13-12 because he pitched for a lousy team that could not score runs(sorry Mariner fans).

By: supersnappy

supersnappy — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 13:52:14 +0000

Gah! Sorry the the double post. And the misplaced comma in the first one

By: supersnappy

supersnappy — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 13:51:22 +0000

A win is the objective of the game and is of course very important. McCarthy is talking about the ‘win’, the statistic credited to pitchers. Nobody disputes the importance of winning, but giving full credit for that win to whichever pitcher was in the game when the winning team took a lead they never gave up (and who went 5 innings if he was the starter) is the silly part.

By: supersnappy

supersnappy — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 13:51:06 +0000

A win, is the objective of the game and is of course very important. McCarthy is talking about the ‘win’, the statistic credited to pitchers. Nobody disputes the importance of winning, but giving full credit for that win to whichever pitcher was in the game when the winning team took a lead they never gave up (and who went 5 innings if he was the starter) is the silly part.

By: 80fightins08

80fightins08 — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 13:18:03 +0000

Wins = not important???
WAR = wins above replacement = important???
You SABR geeks r killing me.

“You play to win the game.”

By: tuberippin

tuberippin — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 07:00:38 +0000

I will go with “all of the above”.

By: bigmeechy74

bigmeechy74 — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 06:41:34 +0000

You are either trolling or stupid.

By: dawgpoundmember

dawgpoundmember — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 04:09:17 +0000

Finally someone says it! Wins are so overrated!

Wait….every stat adds up to wins.

By: ranoversquarells

ranoversquarells — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 03:49:51 +0000

By the end results it looks like Zach no longer believes in cybermetrics …

By: indaburg

indaburg — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 03:34:57 +0000

Yeah, I couldn’t dislike him if I tried. I don’t know why I would try.

McCarthy gets it.

By: redguy12588

redguy12588 — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 02:58:07 +0000

Miguel Cabrera fans are about to flip out.

“IF RBIS ARE SO WORTHLESS, THEN WHY IS IT COUNTED AS PART OF THE TRIPLE CROWN? TAKE THAT NERDS!”

By: raysfan1

raysfan1 — Sat, 09 Mar 2013 02:53:17 +0000

Every time I read something about this guy, I like him more.