Comments on: MLB to vote to eliminate the pension plan which covers non-uniformed personnel

By: Chris K

Chris K — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 06:18:39 +0000

I tried so hard to come up with a “soda pop” joke but failed

By: stex52

stex52 — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 02:37:51 +0000

……..and it’s okay when you get there to really stick it to the loyal people who work for you.

By: jm91rs

jm91rs — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 02:23:13 +0000

I don’t always agree with your posts, but I liked this one. It reminds me it’s not worth telling people here that its ok to be rich and most of these guys busted their a$ses to get there.

By: jm91rs

jm91rs — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 02:17:55 +0000

You think Scrooge mcduck was giving mrs Beasley a pension plan? Get real

By: jlovenotjlo

jlovenotjlo — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 22:56:59 +0000

Ayn Rand died in 1982 and won’t be defending any business moves anytime soon.

By: JB (the original)

JB (the original) — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 21:34:41 +0000

I guess if not Enron, then what about Unisys? Essentially they got a bunch of people to take early retirement, with the “in writing” fact that these retirees would receive lifetime free healthcare as part of their retirement package. Well guess what, a few years down the road when it became apparent that health care costs were skyrocketing, Unysis went to the courts and begged out of the agreement, saying that ‘if they were forced to continue making good on their promise it could possibly ruin the company’. The courts agreed and let them off the hook, and the retirees, well, they took it in the shorts.

By: stlouis1baseball

stlouis1baseball — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 21:16:54 +0000

Careful Schlom. You should know something…
At HBT…business is bad. Business owners are bad. Wealthy business owners are twice as bad.
They are simply greedy…money loving…no heart having old white men.
The fact that they sign the checks and assume all the associated risks that come with that means nothing.
OCCUPY CLUBHOUSES!
OCCUPY SUITES!
OCCUPY OFFICES!
OCCUPY PENTHOUSES!
OCCUPY…..SOMETHING!

By: snowbirdgothic

snowbirdgothic — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 21:10:23 +0000

Chris, I advise you to wander over to a produce stand one day. In one container, you might see apples. In another, you might see oranges. At that point, you will most likely come to the conclusion that they are different fruit, and should not be compared.

By: snowbirdgothic

snowbirdgothic — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 21:05:43 +0000

401(k) plans are largely a boondoggle designed to A)put money into the hands of fund managers and B)reduce employer responsibilities to their employees.

By: jm91rs

jm91rs — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 21:04:38 +0000

While I see the huge TV contracts changing the game a bit, I think if I owned a team I’d be concerned when the stadium I’m in starts crumbling. The public funding option has proven to be a disaster over and over again. I think the climate is changing here and it’s going to be up to MLB or the individual owners to fund most of these stadiums in the future. I see a need to increase cash flow and build reserves for awhile to prepare for that change. We’re talking hundreds of millions per team that would have to be available. Putting money in their pockets might be smart for awhile.

By: jm91rs

jm91rs — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:59:55 +0000

Ha. I hope you feel better after posting that.

Are you saying you left America because people don’t like Unions here anymore?

By: snowbirdgothic

snowbirdgothic — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:57:55 +0000

I love the idiot logic of “most people don’t get it, so why should they?”
How about “It’s something more people should have but are getting screwed out of.” Or “It’s a contractually negotiated benefit that these people agreed to in exchange for lower salaries, not an entitlement, so shutting it down is actually taking their money.” Or perhaps “I know nothing about how pensions actually work, and perhaps I should learn a bit before spouting off about them.”

By: jm91rs

jm91rs — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:57:51 +0000

If you sacrifice income to work in a game you love, good for you but you better not be crying when the income gets cut a little. If it’s about the money, get another job, if it’s about love of the game, don’t complain. There’s an awful lot of Americans out there without Pensions.

Millionaires have the right to cut costs and get richer. If the best people in the business seek employment elsewhere, then maybe they’ll have to change compensation to get some of them back.

My question though is this: Say you work for the Reds in the clubhouse. Does your check come from the Reds or MLB? If it’s the Reds, can’t they chose whether or not to continue your pension? An owner that offers pension would have an attractive offer over others. A guy like Reinsdorf could get some talented hardworking guys from other teams if he offered better compensation. That’s the American way.

By: delusionalcardsfan

delusionalcardsfan — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:50:34 +0000

Bunch of a$$holes.

By: shaggylocks

shaggylocks — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:45:02 +0000

Perhaps not “politically correct” language, but “politically advantageous” language.

By: gogigantos

gogigantos — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:43:37 +0000

My love/hate relationship with America drove me away.
Can any of you all union hating mofos tell me how a union ever hurt workers, or business that was well run?
Another example of a money, giant money, making business squeezes and screws the worker generating profit all for a few more bucks on the bottom line to be shared among a handful of cats way too fat to know how to spend it all.
Seriously, somehow this is a good business move. What would Aynn Rand have to say about screwing your workers this way?
Seriously, I am curious how she, or anyone, can defend this as good business.
Much less, how is this at all American?
Fuck all you all thinking this is at all cool.

flame away turds

By: DD23

DD23 — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:38:20 +0000

The MLB is swimming in cash now, for sure, so that’s a valid point. However I think it’s short-sighted to take the current financial climate, extrapolate it out for the next 30 years, and assume that things are going to be the same or better. You have to make these type of decisions with a long-term focus. Defined-benefit plans run a much greater risk of doing significant long-term financial harm to a business than defined contribution plans do. That’s the point I’m trying to make. There’s a reason most companies and governments are moving away from them.

By: gogigantos

gogigantos — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:33:05 +0000

So, another giant corporation is screwing the workers out of a few bucks.
Can any of you all who hate unions so so so much tell me what exactly they have done to ruin the world?
One step closer to hating the game I love.
It is like loving a country and its people while hating its government for being so so so piss poor.

10 year anniversary of the invasion of Iraq,,, and a world of people closer to slavery then freedom the world over.

flame away

By: scoutsaysweitersisabust

scoutsaysweitersisabust — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:11:04 +0000

I wasn’t railing against MLB either. Just simply stating that I see three likely outcomes to MLB making this movie, and I believe it’s a bad move for them, both publicly and financially.

I also think there is a difference between taking a job with certain expectations and having them taken away from you out of greed, and taking a job knowing going into it you aren’t getting a pension. Most people who do have pensions factor that into their decision to take a job that typically pays less than other employment opportunities.

I also think it’s pretty ridiculous to compare the guy who makes fries for a living to the guy with medical training who spends his life helping minor league players rehab from injury.

By: jerpicc

jerpicc — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:54:17 +0000

i’d recommend informing yourself on DB and DC plans before taking a stance on either side of the topic:

http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v69n3/v69n3p1.html

By: buggieowens

buggieowens — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:53:53 +0000

Thanks Cory…regardless if I agree with you on the morality of the pension change, you do sound like someone who understands the pension system.

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:53:34 +0000

I don’t see the problem.

With the caveat that we’ll never see MLB’s reserves to know how much they are holding to fund the program, there’s a huge difference in a most companies swapping to a defined contribution plan vs a defined benefit plan. The latter is far more difficult to fund due to the sheer volume of cash you have to keep in reserves.

MLB is swimming in cash. Unless MLB got aboard the Wilpon train and invested with Madoff, they should not be having issues funding their pension program. So the reason to swap isn’t a necessity to continue business, it’s a way to reduce costs to the owners or put more money in their pockets.

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:47:55 +0000

They cut office employee benefits to save a couple hundred grand a few years ago. I realize that was George’s doing

Almost positive he didn’t, but he definitely threatened too. The man was a bit of a nut in that regards.

By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged

churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:46:26 +0000

97% of workers without a pension is also disgraceful

This isn’t what they mean by the way. The easiest way to look at a defined benefit plan is that for every year you work you get X% of your salary, hence year’s worked defines your benefit. It’s extremely costly because the employer needs to keep enough in reserves to make payments.

97% of the private sector got rid of these plans years ago because of the cost to run them, and now uses a defined contribution plan a la the 401K. These are far cheaper, and most likely what MLB would offer. It also puts all the risk into the employee to set aside money compared to the company with the defined benefit plan.

By: kopy

kopy — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:43:52 +0000

I do think MLB is making a bad move here, but most folks could probably find higher-paying jobs if they wanted to.

By: kopy

kopy — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:41:19 +0000

If MLB makes it impossible for employees to save for retirement, then no one will work for them. MLB will counter this by offering more money or benefits.

Equilibrium and labor economics, ya’ll. The people who would really suffer are those who are so entrenched working for MLB it would be hard to find a job in a new industry.

By: coryeuc

coryeuc — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:39:16 +0000

And to clarity my point based on one made elsewhere in the thread, employer contributions WILL have to resume if certain funding thresholds are not met during the course of closing out the fund.

By: coryeuc

coryeuc — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:36:57 +0000

For buggie: Enron employee pensions weren’t just taken away. It is an issue with how Enron ran and funded the program, choosing to promise pension payments on the value of company stock that eventually crashed. Sadly, Enron employees got caught up in this and it seems many decided to invest their own retirement funds in company stock. It was unique, and yes, corrupt. My point was that pension payments are largely protected contractually. If MLB votes to close its DB pension fund, the money paid into it and the money it has promised to pay out do not disappear. These are legally protected and even in the case of bankruptcy, pensioners would have standing as creditors. Employee and employer contributions are no longer made, and the fund is managed by professional pension managers until all benefits owed are paid out.

By: kmarx

kmarx — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:28:59 +0000

MLB 2006 tax return. file from guidestar.org. (MLB is tax-exempt under IRC 501(c)(6), just like your local chanber of commerce and any professional football league). Compare Bud Selig's alary to the pension costs. The 2004 return is at guidestar.org or here.

By: johnstjc

johnstjc — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:27:10 +0000

mcdonald’s is losing 3 lawsuits right now for how they treat their workers…i’m not blaming mlb or mcdonald’s…just saying this is the new world we live in and people need to adjust