Comments on: MLB sues Biogeneis, Anthony Bosch, claims interference with contract

By: maddogg911

maddogg911 — Sun, 24 Mar 2013 05:47:47 +0000

This is a strategic move to subpoena their records and get a total overview of MLB users. Case will be tossed out and MLB will go after the player as they should, but will be equipped with evidence. Bye bye arod, Bauer and the rest of you cheaters

By: roycethebaseballhack

roycethebaseballhack — Sat, 23 Mar 2013 13:20:11 +0000

One take on this that struck me this morning is that, it’s possible MLB has already seen the BioG evidence. Consider this; they’re powerful, by proxy laden with cash and determined to have and leverage that evidence to their own ends. There are lots of ways and means for them to have gotten this evidence, and I’m convinced they’ve got it. What they don’t have is the legal connection of the dots for them to have it. Hence, efforts that will, by some twisted set of barely legal moves, allow Bud to stand up and declare he has it, got it by legal means, and act on it.
Maybe not the whole truth, but in light of how powerful the MLB is, it’s a plausible facet to what’s going on.

By: 1123five

1123five — Sat, 23 Mar 2013 12:31:08 +0000

More than most cases, I’d think the court would be amenable to a stay of discovery pending a motion to dismiss. That is, unless the judge is Lupica fan.

By: padraighansen

padraighansen — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 23:59:28 +0000

It’s an interesting comment about finding the attorneys & firms to file the complaint – Proskauer (AmLaw 30) and Kobre Kim (NLJ Midsize Hot List Firm) are both high end firms. My sense is that there is no shortage of firms lining up to represent MLB on this on whatever fee arrangement MLB dictated.

By: nbjays

nbjays — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 22:57:29 +0000

Looks like he got a deal on hair dye from Donald Trump.

By: 4cornersfan

4cornersfan — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 20:34:39 +0000

You correctly identified the weak link in the claim. the elements of tortious interference w/K are
(1) knowledge of the contract, (2) performance of the contract was refused, (3) the defendant played an active and substantial part in causing the plaintiff to lose the benefits of his contract, (4) damages from the breached contract, and (5) the defendant induced the breach without justification or privilege to do so.
Unless MLB can establish that it lost some ticket revenue, money from commercials, etc. that is directly attributable to Biogenesis’ acts, the complaint will get the boot. I agree with the commenter who thinks it is a ploy by MLB to get discovery of the documents.

By: 4356gejm

4356gejm — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 20:32:56 +0000

Amen, pilferk. You got it. Wonderful thing, that subpoena power.

By: 4356gejm

4356gejm — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 20:30:04 +0000

@clydeserra – Yes, baseball stuffed its pockets during the steroid era. Over time, though, the end result may be a net loss of fans and revenue because of continued revelations of cheating. All I’m saying is the fat lady doesn’t have her hand on the sheet music yet. But it’s really a moot point, of course, because MLB is not concerned about evidence to support their damages theory; they simply want the proof of who was being supplied.

@artisan3m – Your scenario may be true in some cases, but I guarantee Proskauer, Rose did not put the B-team on the MLB account. The defense will not prevail because this is not going to trial. It is purely a vehicle for MLB to get evidence against its most prominent cheaters so it can make an example of them and hopefully deter others. And those bozos at Biogenesis in no way have the war chest that MLB does to wage this war. At the one million in legal fees mark, MLB won’t even have broken a sweat, and the Biogenesis rats will be squealing.

By: tomtravis76

tomtravis76 — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 20:29:34 +0000

When is Bud going to get tested? Must be his look for Ultra this weekend.

By: Craig Calcaterra

Craig Calcaterra — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 19:34:24 +0000

Actually, if it were not for all the stuff I wrote about the Mitchell Report and PEDs when I was an amateur, I may never have made the jump. That stuff got me noticed back in 2007-08.

By: pilferk

pilferk — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 19:14:46 +0000

They can’t be criminally liable for selling to MLB players, specifically.

And the fed has already said they have no interest in persuing charges against Biogenesis’ owners, staff, etc.

Civil damages (which is all MLB can sue for) have to be “real”, given the type of suit being filed. They have to be discernable, proveable, and documentable. There are no “penalty” damages for this type of suit. So if MLB loses, they gain nothing monetary.

They could, though, gain valuable info to be used against the players they have their sights set on. Or, all things considered, they could lose those arbitration hearings that inevitably arrive because of the source and credibility of the information.

By: pilferk

pilferk — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 19:09:30 +0000

See, I look at this suit and think it’s more about disclosure than damages. If they can get a judge who’s at least willing to go through the pre-trial motions (literally and figuratively)…MLB can finally get there hands on the Biogenesis records that the Miami Times refused to turn over.
Which means they an now start going after the players named in those documents, which is what they wanted to be able to do, in the first place.
It’s not really about the damages..they could care less if it gets thrown out at trial or if they lose the suit. Winning would just be a happy bonus. They just want it to get past the initial motions to dismiss by the Biogenesis attorneys.

By: clydeserra

clydeserra — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 19:06:47 +0000

“Should they lose civil they could also end up criminally liable.”

When did civics stop being taught in school and when can it start again?

By: clydeserra

clydeserra — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 19:05:08 +0000

that’s not how lawyering works.

By: clydeserra

clydeserra — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 19:04:19 +0000

“some fans who will become disgusted with the whole thing and stop going to or watching games”

as opposed to

some fans attracted to the home runs and what not that became interested that were not before and going to games and watching on TV?

I think there is pretty undeniable evidence that baseball’s finances improved during the time the lab was operating. Now you are trying to say, on balance, because “some fans” left baseball is worse off than before?

there is no evidence of that.

By: dparker713

dparker713 — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:45:40 +0000

Isn’t this exactly the sort of thing that the players said would happen for years when they were resisting drug testing? I can’t imagine why you’d ever agree to expand the power of the league when they insist on acting like petulant children.

By: jdouble777

jdouble777 — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:04:10 +0000

You are very wrong. The defamation of character is legit and will be held up as a case worth review. This I believe may be all they are concerned with as it provide MLB with the records/information needed to progress toward suspensions and possibly bans. Should the aforementioned persecution transpire they would be less probability players would continue to try their luck. Moreover, should they actually win the civil case there would possibly be less clinics/doctors offering. Should they lose civil they could also end up criminally liable.

By: artisan3m

artisan3m — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 17:37:13 +0000

Cases like this can attract some “very good lawyers” who are not affiliated with top law firms. If the defendants prevail, those “very good lawyers” automatically become a “top law firm” in their own right …..instantly. I don’t think those named in the suit as defendants will have all that much problem providing money for a defense. Although the game and clubs are held in high esteem, Selig and Company have few friends, plus MLBPA will not be a mere spectator in this little soiree.

By: anythingbutyanks

anythingbutyanks — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 17:31:51 +0000

Has there been a better time in baseball (or sports in general) history for a sports writer to have a legal background? I can’t imagine Craig thought he’d be drawing on that background quite this much when he made the jump.

By: shawndc04

shawndc04 — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 17:30:28 +0000

Although the damage allegation is indeed flimsy, they can probably argue that, in addition to cost associated with investigating pes use, MLB and specific clubs are damaged when a player is suspended (loss of attendance when a star is out, etc). To me the more important issue is intent. In the complaint they seem to recognize that knowledge and intent are elements of of the claim. I do not see how they could possibly establish intent to effect a breach, even circumstantially. Knowledge is also difficult to prove. If the player himself went to the company to obtain the pas, how can the company be alleged to have intended to breach the agreement. This complaint is quite a stretch. MLB ought to be careful what they are asking for.

By: artisan3m

artisan3m — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 17:19:56 +0000

That is where this case can blow up in Selig & Company’s face. The petition alleges “loss of revenue and profits.” Discovery is a two way street and this claim would legally allow the defendants to rummage through MLB’s and club’s ledgers to ascertain if this claim can be substantiated. MLB’s anti-trust protection is not absolute ~ not when its holder unilaterally puts its protections in jeopardy. So this may be just a ruse to frighten Biogenesis into, shall we say, “friendly compliance.” The odds of that happening are less than the Rangers winning the 2013 WS in four games.

By: artisan3m

artisan3m — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 17:08:55 +0000

Since Bosch, ARod, and others are rowing the same boat, it may be to ARod’s advantage to be a “friend of the defendant,” so to speak, and I doubt ARod is anywhere near destitute. Additionally, there are some very good lawyers that might take the case on contingency as a victory over MLB would be a huge feather in their cap. I doubt this case will ever see anything close to a trial. I’d surmise a competent judge would toss it because MLB does not need this “discovery” to impose suspensions. This petition if for “discovery” purposes and courts are not prone to endorsing witch hunts in civil matters.

By: randygnyc

randygnyc — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 17:07:28 +0000

Proskauer and Rose are one of the top firms in NYC. They handled some real estate contract cases I’ve consulted on.

By: sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo

sabathiawouldbegoodattheeighthtoo — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:57:31 +0000

Understood. I was trying to be ironically sarcastic. Steroids don’t cause hip impingements.They don’t cause home runs either.

By: mplsjoe

mplsjoe — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:43:48 +0000

My guess is that MLB thinks its lawyers are better than Biogenesis’ lawyers, and that, therefore, it will get the defendant’s info before the defendant gets anywhere near MLB’s info. I think MLB is wrong, but I would guess that’s the plan.

By: 4356gejm

4356gejm — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:42:23 +0000

@vansloot – Yes, a non-party to a contract may be held liable by one party to the contract, if the non-party causes another party to the contract to breach its obligations to the first. It’s called tortious interference with a contract, and here MLB is alleging that Biogenesis has interfered with the contract between the players and MLB, by supplying the players with PEDs, putting them in breach of their contract and causing MLB harm. Craig’s point is not that there is no claim, but that damages will be difficult to prove or quantify.

How was MLB harmed if Braun’s juiced performances filled the seats? Craig’s assessment is that the only harm MLB suffered was the damage to their reputation amongst a few columnists, which was probably not capable of being damaged any further at this point anyway. I don’t necessarily agree, because there are some fans who will become disgusted with the whole thing and stop going to or watching games. Let’s see where the attendance figure head if proof of PED use by Braun, A-Rod, etc. begins to mount.

I agree with the commenters who write that MLB is doing this to use the power of civil discovery to get access under court order to what Biogenesis will not voluntarily divulge. They’re not interested in winning this case. I mean, how much money will Biogenesis be able to pay? What MLB wants is to a) make an example of a few high-profile players in the hopes that it will scare others away from PED use, and b) make an example of these pseudo-fitness and nutrition outfits that are really fronts for illegal pharmaceutical distribution to the players. A-Rod and Braun look like perfect targets. And I wouldn’t worry about whether MLB has good lawyers. Proskauer, Rose? Good lawyers, alright. They know exactly what they’re doing, and I guarantee MLB can and will pay them a lot more, for a lot longer, than Biogenesis will be able to afford whoever they hire. Those guys are toast, and when the rats start running from the ship, we’ll see that MLB is still full of juicers, like they always have been, and then MLB will wreak their vengeance on the unfortunate few who they catch red-handed, hypocrisy be damned.

By: rbj1

rbj1 — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:33:27 +0000

MLB needs to sue Jeff Loria. He’s done more damage to MLB than Anthony Bosch.

By: djpostl

djpostl — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:33:06 +0000

They’re just trying scare them into giving up the info on everyone. Not a surprising tactic.

By: rbj1

rbj1 — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:31:19 +0000

Actually steroids do not cause hip impingements. I’ve had hip impingements long before using steroids (and the only reason I’m currently using steroids is because they were prescribed for the pneumonia I’ve had all winter.) Hip rotation is about the only thing I have in common with A-Rod (hey at 5’9″ and 132 lbs – did I mention I had pneumonia this winter – any PEDs I might have used were worthless) as I practice Aikido.

Being the youngest to 600 home runs means A-Rod has practiced hip rotation a lot. Makes it all the more remarkable that Hank Arron, Babe Ruth and Willie Mays are the only three true 600 HR members. Doing that just wears your body out. And two of them took greenies and the other drank booze when it was unconstitutional.

By: danandcasey

danandcasey — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:29:18 +0000

I would expect that MLB would contend that the negotiated remedy between the players’ association and MLB was the suspensions instead of money damages. That does not mean a player breach does not result in money damages — especially a breach that goes undetected but otherwise comes out. Such a breach may harm the MLB’s product by having fans mistrust the product on the field. I imagine that some damages expert can spin a tale.

My impression of the lawsuit is that it is not about damages. I also do not think it is about documents. The defendants’ counsel will protect any discovered documents with a Protective Order that would prevent the use of the documents outside the present litigation. My take is that the suit is primarily about leverage. MLB will try to get the defendants to settle. A settlement would then include documents and other cooperation.