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R.A. Dickey roughed up in second Blue Jays start

Apr 7, 2013, 3:39 PM EDT

dickey getty Getty Images

R.A. Dickey allowed four runs in six innings against the Indians last week in his rough Blue Jays debut.

On Sunday afternoon against the Red Sox, the 38-year-old knuckleballer had an even rougher time.

Dickey gave up five runs in the top of the first inning and was pulled from the game with two outs in the fifth inning after allowing a total of eight runs — seven earned — on 10 Boston hits and two Boston walks.

Dickey has now allowed 12 runs — 10 earned — on 15 hits through 10 2/3 innings with his new team.

It would be foolish to make too much of a couple of ugly starts, but Dickey rarely looked shaky in consecutive games last season. He’ll try to right the ship later this week when he takes on the Royals.

The Red Sox wound up winning Sunday’s series-finale in Toronto by a score of 13-0.

  1. dondada10 - Apr 7, 2013 at 3:43 PM

    R.A. is just trying to hard. He needs a road start to right the ship, and he’ll be fine.

    • badintent - Apr 8, 2013 at 2:24 AM

      Pitching at Citbank with high powered winds coming off the bay helps a knuckleballer. Playing indoors with no wind is a bad thing for R.A. This will only get worse. Sorry Jays.

  2. mdev1987 - Apr 7, 2013 at 3:48 PM

    Welcome to the AL

    • oldpaddy - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:12 PM

      Sox offense isn’t THAT good. Dickey would’ve stunk it up in the nl today too.

      • mornelithe - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:50 PM

        Not the entire Sox offense, but Ellsbury and WMB are.

  3. paperlions - Apr 7, 2013 at 3:52 PM

    Too much baseball, I could watch Fernandez’s debut on SNY, Dickey v. Boston, on NESN, or Verlander/Sabathia on YES…and wished I could have watched them all….I went with Verlander/Sabathia.

    • sdelmonte - Apr 7, 2013 at 3:58 PM

      No cable for me, but I was able to see Reds-Nats online as the MLB.com free game.

      Welcome back, baseball!

      • js20011041 - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:03 PM

        If there is anything in the world worth an investment of $130, it’s MLB.tv. Every day is a wild orgy of baseball. It is glorious.

      • paperlions - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:35 PM

        Couldn’t agree more. Even with the blackouts (which are annoying), it is easily worth the money.

      • indaburg - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:45 PM

        I third the notion for the MLB.tv investment. It was the best present I got last Christmas. I’m listening to Scully to soothe my ravaged nerves. It was a rough day for the other reigning Cy Young Award winner too.

    • historiophiliac - Apr 7, 2013 at 7:42 PM

      So, you’re regretting that choice then.

      • paperlions - Apr 7, 2013 at 7:48 PM

        Nah, just lamenting the need to have to choose….at least there were good options to watch before the Cardinals game started.

      • historiophiliac - Apr 7, 2013 at 7:52 PM

        I woulda regretted it. That was a stinker. I would of (he he) watched the Cards to root for Kozma, but it’s blacked out. :( Oh, well. Mad Men is on shortly. Enjoy your game.

      • historiophiliac - Apr 7, 2013 at 8:04 PM

        And toss me some olives. This is a martini show.

      • paperlions - Apr 7, 2013 at 8:06 PM

        Haha….I’m sure it is. No comsopolitans, gibsons, or manahattans?

      • paperlions - Apr 7, 2013 at 8:10 PM

        I have discovered, disappointingly, that I don’t enjoy martini’s as much on the weekends….after a day at work, they are fantastic, after a day cooking, doing yard work, shopping, hiking, fishing, etc….they just don’t do it. I think work is a required pre-requisite to get full martini enjoyment.

      • historiophiliac - Apr 8, 2013 at 12:39 AM

        Boooo!!!!

      • paperlions - Apr 8, 2013 at 7:24 AM

        When I was getting your olives, I decided perhaps my sample size was not yet sufficient to draw a strong conclusion and collected more data. More data collection is planned for the future.

      • historiophiliac - Apr 8, 2013 at 7:31 AM

        That’s the scientific way to go.

      • paperlions - Apr 8, 2013 at 7:32 AM

        A long term study is planned to evaluate temporal-spatial dynamics of this phenomenon.

      • historiophiliac - Apr 8, 2013 at 7:35 AM

        That makes it sound dreary. You know, we don’t have all that fancy lingo in History. Well, some people try to use it, but we steal their monocles and make fun of them.

      • paperlions - Apr 8, 2013 at 7:38 AM

        I mostly do large-scale ecology….so, spatial patterns are important. And right now, how those spatial patterns change through time as a result of anthropogenic activities (e.g. land use change, habitat loss/fragmentation, climate change) is an active area of study for both theoretical and applied reasons.

        So…it isn’t dreary, it is DYNAMIC!

      • historiophiliac - Apr 8, 2013 at 7:40 AM

        Whatever, 3-eyes.

      • paperlions - Apr 8, 2013 at 7:41 AM

        That’s triclops.

      • historiophiliac - Apr 8, 2013 at 7:48 AM

        Actually, French historians especially focus on long term patterns (what stays consistent over time) and sniff at our little brief history. Basically, if you can’t do it in 500 year increments, you don’t really have history. In contrast, we focus on blips — mostly because we can. What is 10 years? Not much. When you have so much history, you can’t really focus on that much detail at once. You might actually be interested in those longer studies — they focus quite a bit on the things you mentioned.

      • paperlions - Apr 8, 2013 at 7:54 AM

        Yeah, the older I get, the more interesting history is….just because you realize how so much of historical outcomes is projected onto current geography, names of places, social practices, etc. I am always interested in the reasons why something is how it is….especially when there is no obvious reason for some of the silly conventions we have.

      • historiophiliac - Apr 8, 2013 at 7:55 AM

        History really is wasted on young people. They do not have the sense for it.

      • paperlions - Apr 8, 2013 at 8:05 AM

        Yep, when haven’t been anywhere, or done anything, there is really no context for you to understand or appreciate the things that came before you.

      • historiophiliac - Apr 8, 2013 at 8:07 AM

        Well, and you can’t really think outside yourself yet — or understand some of the subtleties of human relations. Too much biology and not enough consciousness yet.

      • paperlions - Apr 8, 2013 at 8:18 AM

        Yep. “Kids” (22 or so) in our lab get a little defensive when I tell them that they haven’t spend much time as fully formed individuals and that they are just now figuring out what they think and feel about things rather than just reflecting the general view of their cohort. A few years later, they start to understand, by 28 or so, they get it and see it in the 22 yr olds that are just arriving.

      • historiophiliac - Apr 8, 2013 at 9:20 AM

        They must love you. lol

      • paperlions - Apr 8, 2013 at 9:24 AM

        It is part of a larger conversation. Generally, they confuse intelligence with experience or knowledge. While E & K are necessary to do good, insightful, novel science, they are not intelligence or intellectual creativity….they just need to realize that no matter how smart they are some things will take time to develop and that those more experienced than they aren’t necessarily smarter, they’ve just been around longer…..and, yes, they adore me. :-)

      • historiophiliac - Apr 8, 2013 at 9:51 AM

        I don’t know that I think you can learn intellectual creativity.

      • paperlions - Apr 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM

        It can definitely be enhanced by trying/practice….but yeah, in general, you are either good at it or you are not.

      • historiophiliac - Apr 8, 2013 at 12:43 PM

        I could totally go off on that, but I won’t. :)

      • paperlions - Apr 8, 2013 at 7:39 AM

        The only dreary thing is that I decided to try Kettle One…which is no Gray Goose (or Belvedere).

  4. thebadguyswon - Apr 7, 2013 at 3:53 PM

    So glad Sandy sold high.

    • 18thstreet - Apr 7, 2013 at 6:36 PM

      I didn’t think about this at the time, but I think the Blue Jays made a big mistake. The knuckleball — at least Tim Wakefield’s — is effective indoors.

  5. Ben - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:04 PM

    I love me some Dickey, but did no one wonder about the sustainability of his utterly unprecedented control of the knuckleball, and the massive increase in his strikeout rate from 2011 to 2012?
    I know the Blue Jays have far and away the most scouts of any organization in baseball, so they must have seen something they loved in him, and it’s RA Dickey, so he’ll always get the benefit of the doubt from me, but I wonder if he’ll be anything close to 2012 Dickey.

    • oldpaddy - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:07 PM

      Do they really have the most scouts?

      • Ben - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:10 PM

        Yeah, Jason Parks on his new podcast with Mike Ferrin talks about it. And I’ve heard it before other places. Apparently you can’t go anywhere without stumbling over a Jays scout.

    • alexo0 - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:30 PM

      Wonder no more. He will not be. Last year was incredible, but that’s as high as he’ll fly. He’s a back of the rotation arm who is treated and paid like an ace. Dickey and Adam Lind will be the death of the 2013 Jays.

      • princesscuddles - Apr 8, 2013 at 4:30 AM

        Needs to improve but its early

  6. oldpaddy - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:05 PM

    Knucklers effectiveness can be fleeting. Enjoy your “ace” Toronto.

    What’s up with all the paper airplanes? In my day we threw batteries.
    Paper airplanes are for children and jays fans apparently.

  7. normcash - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:09 PM

    Both starts were in the dome—I wonder whether that lack of wind currents makes his knuckler
    ineffective?

    • oldpaddy - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:13 PM

      Wakefeild always said domes were better for the knuckler.

    • Ben - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:28 PM

      Doubt it. The knuckleball works because of how little spin is on the ball. There’s a reason guns were totally inaccurate before rifling–a spinning bullet’s trajectory is much more predictable. Same principle with a baseball. Wind might push it around, but it’s not intrinsic to how the pitch works.

      • paperlions - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:39 PM

        Plus video analysis shows that the knuckle ball doesn’t actually change direction more than once (if at all). It’s flight path is always smooth. It does drop a lot more than other pitches (except change ups), but that is just because it’s speed gives gravity more time to pull it down. Otherwise, it is just the optical illusion created by the subtle movement of the threads that makes the balls path hard to predict with the human eye/brain.

  8. chacochicken - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:16 PM

    I think I’m going to give him another start or two before I commit ritual suicide over his performance.

    • indaburg - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:48 PM

      Yummmm… when a chicken commits suicide, the results are usually delicious.

      • chacochicken - Apr 7, 2013 at 5:37 PM

        I once knew a guinea who flew (more of a glide) right into out industrial wood chipper. It was terrible and hilarious at the same time but decidedly non-delicious.

      • indaburg - Apr 7, 2013 at 5:55 PM

        Yeah, a wood chipper chicken suicide would not be delicious. I was thinking more like chicken suicide by rotisserie.

      • chacochicken - Apr 7, 2013 at 6:13 PM

        I feel that one day soon, through the wonders of modern genetics, Perdue will provide you with a suicidal, self marinating chicken.

      • historiophiliac - Apr 7, 2013 at 7:46 PM

        Hilarious.

  9. mornelithe - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:19 PM

    I just wonder if the AL East’s experience with Wakefield, has primed the division for knucklers.

    • oldpaddy - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM

      Sox never faced wakes.

      • mornelithe - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:25 PM

        Yeah…..and you think Wake never threw for the Sox in practice so that they knew how to deal with Knucklers they may face? I would think any pitcher would try to assist his team in any way possible, including serving up their nastiest pitches as a means of training/experience.

      • paperlions - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:41 PM

        Like who? There weren’t any other effective knuckleballers in the league the entire time Wakefield was with Boston.

      • oldpaddy - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:41 PM

        It’s possible, but I doubt it. A lot of hitters complained that when wakefeild was on, his pitching would screw up their timing.
        Plus I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but there’s not many familiar faces on this team from wakes days.

      • mornelithe - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:53 PM

        @paperlions: So you think they’d be reactive instead of proactive? Not really that hard to imagine that the Sox would see how effective the Knuckler is against other teams, and try to prep theirs for it. In case any ever did enter the division/conference etc…

        Doesn’t really make much sense to remain inexperienced on something that can clearly catch offenses off-guard, when it’s working properly.

      • paperlions - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:57 PM

        There is no reason to be proactive about something that comes along about once every 15 to 20 years. None.

      • thinman61 - Apr 7, 2013 at 5:13 PM

        Wake was in Fort Myers this spring, working with Steven Wright.

    • mornelithe - Apr 7, 2013 at 4:54 PM

      @Olpaddy: Fair enough, but Farrell’s there, and he was pitching coach for quite some time while Wake was around. Either way, it was a mere case of curiosity, not saying Dickey is doomed in the AL East.

      • oldpaddy - Apr 7, 2013 at 5:49 PM

        I doubt farrell talked to wakes much. I think wake was on his own.

        Knuckle ball pitchers are extremely rare. Consistently good knucklers are even rarer.
        Sox killed dickey today because his knuckler was ineffective, not because the sox have been practicing hitting the knuckler. Wakes knuckler was different from dickeys, so there’s not much of a comparison.

  10. thebadguyswon - Apr 7, 2013 at 5:17 PM

    Mlb.tv is awesome unless you have DSL and can’t stream in HD. In that case you have to go with Extra Innings. Mlb.tv is better but I have to have HD.

  11. fearlessleader - Apr 7, 2013 at 5:17 PM

    He’s probably tipping his pitches.

  12. jerze2387 - Apr 7, 2013 at 5:25 PM

    The ball flies out of toronto, so when the addage for the knuckler is “if its high let it fly”, thats a red flag. Plus dickey hadnt demonstrated years off consistant high level performance.

    Thats why i traded him last night in my fantasy league for haren and allen craig. Toronto is not going to be fun for dickey

  13. bigmeechy74 - Apr 7, 2013 at 6:34 PM

    I know it’s early. But I thought the Blue Jays might suck this year. I also thought trading one of the top 3 best catching prospects in MLB for him seemed kinda dumb.

  14. thebadguyswon - Apr 7, 2013 at 7:24 PM

    If anything, the Dickey trade has shown that Anthopoulous is not infallible.

  15. gibbskins9 - Apr 7, 2013 at 8:28 PM

    Past history says NL pitchers that move to the AL don’t fare well.

    • oldpaddy - Apr 7, 2013 at 8:41 PM

      I agree, but there’s been many that have done well. Pedro Martinez and Curt Schilling come to mind.

    • chill1184 - Apr 8, 2013 at 12:11 AM

      Dickey was in the AL first then the NL then back to the AL.

  16. nbjays - Apr 7, 2013 at 10:02 PM

    I watched the first couple of innings and Dickey’s knuckleball was not moving at all today. The Red Sox were teeing off like he was pitching batting practice, which, when the knuckler ain’t dancing, is EXACTLY what you are doing.

  17. jaysfan64 - Apr 8, 2013 at 2:00 AM

    With the glass from Windows restaurant removed the current from the a/c feels different this year..example: Rasmus has good power, but that HR he hit Saturday landed in a spot that only Delgado and Shawn Green have ever reached (as lefties, of course)..Napoli’s opposite field HR Friday didn’t seem like it was hit that hard – it just kept on carrying..in past years the ball flew out with the roof open but not so much with the roof closed – I think this place will be the new homerdome this season…

    • oldpaddy - Apr 8, 2013 at 7:06 AM

      Pedroia made a comment about the ac. Interesring.
      Reminds me of the twins dome and the complaints from opposing players about how the fans would be turned up or down depending on who was batting.
      Domes are so silly.

    • 1943mrmojorisin1971 - Apr 8, 2013 at 12:32 PM

      I noticed that as well, especially on Thursday night. Every fly ball seemed to carry to the warning track if it didn’t leave the yard.

  18. hitdog042 - Apr 8, 2013 at 10:09 AM

    Paper lions grey goose is gross. Get some Titos. A real vodka. From Texas. I put 4 shots down don’t tell you what they are and I flat out guarantee u say goose is the worst. I’d drink Seagrams over goose. Goose is a brand. Not a good vodka.

  19. mnfan2013 - Apr 8, 2013 at 10:52 AM

    After watching the game , it makes me wonder if DICKEY wants to be in Toronto, Canada . That goes for anybody that was traded to the BLUE JAYS this off season ? We’ll see what happens … how many more games to go ?

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