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HBT Daily: Who’s to blame for the Phillies’ current state?

May 20, 2013, 1:30 PM EDT

That state being one in which the team has a lot of injuries but not a lot of help on the farm. Also: how does Cabrera’s prime match up to others’, historically speaking?

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  1. normcash - May 20, 2013 at 1:47 PM

    Bonds’ “dominance” was steroid-fueled and this guy “doesn’t care”? Sorry, pal…Bonds deserves no consideration whatsoever. Mantle’s ’55-’57 seasons were comparable to Cabrera’s now, but he didn’t have to deal with specialty relievers. Whether Cabrera is the best hitter “ever” is dubious to say the least. Pujols in his hey day was at least as good—and did it over a longer period. Cabrera
    has the talent to match him. We shall see…let’s just enjoy the spectacle of watching a once-in-a-generation player at the height of his career and leave the overall evaluation to history….

    • chew1985 - May 20, 2013 at 2:33 PM

      Before Bonds started with the steroids he already had 3 MVP Awards by age 29 and should have won a 4th in 1991. He was great before steroids and he was even greater after–the only reason he started juicing was because McGwire did so–everybody in uniform knew it-and he was sick of the fawning media once again passing him up for the “Great White Hope” as he had experienced in Pittsburgh with Andy Van Slyke.

      Bonds proved that a great baseball player on steroids will put up stratospheric numbers. And remember, he broke McGwire’s “record” despite NOT being pitched to and did it with more home runs in fewer at bats and a much higher batting average. Apparently the following year he just wanted to see how good of a batting average he could put up {.370 as it turned out} while on the juice.

      The baseball establishment hates Barry Bonds because he showed them up on their refusal to implement a drug policy with teeth. He called their bullshit. The bottom line in all of this is that he had no greater peer when he played with the possible exception of fellow five-tooler Griffey, Jr., before OR after his drug escapade.

      • fanofevilempire - May 20, 2013 at 2:44 PM

        do you have any evidence to support or has Bonds ever admitted to when he started
        using steroids, I could careless about who did what when and where but for you to assume when he started based on no evidence or admittance by Bonds is a slippery slope.
        like I said, I don’t care, the steroid era did exist and it’s part of mlb history, like it or not.

      • chew1985 - May 20, 2013 at 2:51 PM

        “Evidence” in this entire fiasco is a humorous endeavor; just look at the DOJ case against Bonds. Legal observers were left gasping at their handling of this from the beginning.

        So the only observable evidence anyone has is his body size. That suggests he was in SF a couple years at least before the use started and it jives with the Balco timeline.

        We are stating opinions on this site. Each reader can accept or reject what is written. My main point is that in retrospect, I believe Bonds was already a Hall of Famer before he left Pittsburgh.

      • Kevin S. - May 20, 2013 at 2:52 PM

        Game of Shadows did a pretty thorough job documenting when Bonds began using, and given their inability to turn up any evidence of him using before 1999, I’d say it’s fair to call the first thirteen years of his career clean.

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - May 20, 2013 at 3:02 PM

        So the only observable evidence anyone has is his body size. That suggests he was in SF a couple years at least before the use started and it jives with the Balco timeline.

        This isn’t true though. The Cream and Clear were specifically designed to beat current steroid testing*. However, when track coach Trevor Graham sent a used syringe to WADA, they reverse engineered a test that could detect the Cream and the Clear. Bonds sample from ’03 was retested, and he would have “failed” under this new test.

        During his grand jury appearance in 2003, prosecutors presented Bonds with a drug test showing a positive steroids result for a player they called “Barry B.” Bonds said he had never seen those test results.

        *testing was also idiotic because it was based on a ratio test, at the time. So for instance, you failed if your testosterone to epitestosterone was > 4:1 (or vice versa, cur help me out). However, it didn’t care about the amounts of each level, just the ratio. So if the normal body is in a range of say, 8ppm to 2ppm, that’s the 4:1 ratio. But if you had 64ppm to 16ppm, that’s still 4:1 but 8x the normal level. Under the old tests that 64:16ppm person wouldn’t have failed.

      • normcash - May 20, 2013 at 3:46 PM

        Man is this a lame post! Yes, the young Barry Bonds was a truly great hitter. And a cheater
        for last several years of his career. And the excuse that “McGwire was juicing” is really pathetic, especially your speculation that it was racially motivated.

      • chew1985 - May 20, 2013 at 5:41 PM

        normcash–the racial thing is Bonds’ contention, not mine. After the Pirates signed Van Slyke to megabucks just before Bonilla and Bonds’ contracts were up and then claimed they would not have enough to offer similar contracts to either of them is when Bonds called Van Slyke the Great White Hope in the Pittsburgh papers. His relationship with the press was already in a death spiral at that point in his career and never recovered.

  2. ryanrockzzz - May 20, 2013 at 1:49 PM

    I hope someone at least mentions that the Phillies current “state” still has them right in the thick of things in the N.L. East. Certainly, there are issues. But sometimes the negative light is just to sensative on this team.

    • fanofevilempire - May 20, 2013 at 5:25 PM

      chew1985, I’m not saying your dates are wrong, but how can I say they are right, who do
      I believe and why, this entire steroid thing is a nightmare but what can you do.

  3. evanwins - May 20, 2013 at 1:55 PM

    “That state being one in which the team has a lot of injuries but not a lot of help on the farm”
    They had an injury to a pitcher and they called up a guy who is 3-0 with a sub 3 ERA. They had another injury to a pitcher and they called up a guy who pitched 7 innings of 1 hit ball against a 2nd place, highly offensive team.

    This team is far from perfect and this organization is far from perfect but the media CHOOSES to only look at the Phillies. Where are all the Dodgers trade scenario stories, or the Angels? The Nationals certainly haven’t been the team the media promised they’d be and there isn’t a ton of press on that.

    The GM has made a ton of mistakes, no doubt. But at the same time his team has won the 2nd most games in baseball over the past 6 years including 5 division titles, 2 league championships and a world series championship.

    Sometimes that amount of success takes it’s toll on an organization. There are teams in worse shape who have accomplished a lot less and there are teams in better shape who have accomplished a lot less. So give me a break.

    • heyblueyoustink - May 20, 2013 at 2:30 PM

      Don’t let him troll you. He’s in denial, that his Braves aren’t ten games ahead where they’re supposed to be.

      Instead, enjoy our unusual under the radar status.

      • historiophiliac - May 20, 2013 at 7:35 PM


  4. The Dangerous Mabry - May 20, 2013 at 1:55 PM

    Why is there always a pause after Kay asks you questions before you start speaking, but not a similar pause from her after you stop speaking? I used to think it was just the delay for the audio to reach you before you responded, but then wouldn’t she be dealing with the same thing? Just curious. I don’t know a damn thing about how you guys record this.

    • jm91rs - May 20, 2013 at 3:36 PM

      Craig is a slow thinker. It takes him a little longer to process what was said than it does for most people.

  5. tcostant - May 20, 2013 at 2:25 PM

    Investing in guys outside there prime years doesn’t work unless the steriod era is going on…

  6. thebadguyswon - May 20, 2013 at 2:46 PM

    Sure the Phils are in it, but the NL East is a terrible division. Even Atlanta and Washington aren’t as strong as everyone figured.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - May 20, 2013 at 3:04 PM

      Yeah, it’s not that the Phils are 4.5GB first, it’s that they are 4.5GB while being two games under .500.

      • heyblueyoustink - May 20, 2013 at 3:12 PM

        And this particular core is a strong second half team.

        Optimism, one cannot be robbed of it.

      • thebadguyswon - May 20, 2013 at 5:03 PM

        They have a shot, simply because the division is down and they aren’t a bad team.

  7. schmedley69 - May 20, 2013 at 7:44 PM

    The Phillies are traditionally a second half team, while the Braves are traditionally a first half team. If the Phils can stay within 5 by the break, they will be in good shape. They buried themselves in June last year with all of the injuries, but finished strong. They are a flawed team, but so is just about every other team in baseball. The Braves are still the same team that pulled off one of the greatest collapses in recent memory in 2011, and they’ve added the low character Upton Brothers to the mix. Don’t be surprised if they fold up the tents again this year.

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