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Get ready for the resurrection of Anthony Bosch’s character

Jun 5, 2013, 8:20 AM EST

Anthony Bosch

When the Biogenesis story hit back in January, one of the primary narratives that emerged from it among the baseball commentariat was that A-Rod, Ryan Braun and others were awful for, among many other reasons, getting in bed with a shady weasel like Anthony Bosch of Biogenesis. And words were not spared on just how sleazy Bosch was supposed to be. Here are some phrases describing him from Mike Lupica’s February 6 column:

  • “a two-bit South Florida scammer and drug pusher named Anthony Bosch”
  • “a guy you now imagine is a couple of steps away from working out of his garage”
  • “a lawyer with an 800 number he sees in a late-night television commercial”
  • “a ‘medical’ consultant”
  • “a known drug dealer like Anthony Bosch”
  • “a small-time ‘biochemist’ named Anthony Bosch”
  • “Bosch the ‘biochemist'”
  • “a PED pusher like Anthony Bosch”

Note the scare quotes and the utter disdain for Bosch dripping off of every word. The guy is clearly a slime in Lupica’s eyes. But then note this passage toward the end:

There is only one way for Major League Baseball and for the rest of us to get the answers we need on Bosch the “biochemist” and Braun and A-Rod and all the other misunderstood ballplayers who have made the PED version of the Dean’s List, known as Bosch’s List: Get everybody in front of a grand jury and make them tell their stories under oath, not to their PR men. Make them all explain why they were associating with a PED pusher like Anthony Bosch in the first place.

But now, today, Lupica is far less dismissive of Bosch’s word and, apparently, no longer thinks that the “only way” for Major League Baseball to learn about Biogenesis is to hear from the players in a law enforcement setting. To the contrary, he sees Bosch’s own words — as spilled to Major League Baseball in a decidedly non-legal setting — as potentially sufficient basis for suspending A-Rod for 100 games, voiding his contract and ending his career (a prospect Lupica is positively giddy about):

If Anthony Bosch, the anti-aging king of South Florida and alleged distributor of baseball drugs, really is about to flip and really is about to cooperate fully with Major League Baseball, then Bosch becomes the worst nightmare for all of the players whose names appeared in his books. It means all those named in the original Miami New Times article about Bosch and all his baseball friends. There have been other guys who flipped in the past in stories like these. Never the guy dealing the drugs. Never the kingpin.

Now he’s not some sleazy, two-bit hustler working out of his garage. He’s a kingpin! The center of a vast drug empire whose cooperation would be invaluable and unprecedented.* Yes, Lupica does still have a poor opinion of Bosch — he calls him a “two-bit scammer” and says Bosch “looks more like some loser on Collins Ave. trying to give you a tip on the third race at Hialeah” — but he nonetheless identifies him as the man whose word — and his word alone — can and should form the basis of unprecedented and maximal discipline against scores of major leaguers.

And more importantly, nowhere does Lupica acknowledge that maybe — just maybe — said discipline should not rest on just the words of Anthony Bosch. He is not a bit skeptical of a case built on that foundation. Not a bit skeptical of Major League Baseball’s motives here. He does not acknowledge that Major League Baseball is not law enforcement and cannot be presumed to have law enforcement’s fact-finding, justice-doing motives. Indeed, in using Bosch to build its case against A-Rod and Braun MLB is far closer to Ryan Braun’s alleged legal consultations with Bosch than it is to cops talking to an informant. And Lupica considered the notion of Braun consulting with Bosch to be preposterous. It’s not so preposterous now, apparently. It’s the first step on the march to justice and comeuppance for some players Lupica hates.

Watch that pattern unfold all over the place in the coming days. The rehabilitation of Anthony Bosch. The guy who everyone and his brother considered a sleazeball back in January, but who now is the man whose word and his word alone is supposed to form the basis of a righteous case against the ballplayers. Watch as very few are critical of Major League Baseball’s case against those ballplayers because, it seems, Anthony Bosch is to be trusted for some reason.

*Note: it would not be unprecedented, as PED dealers Kirk Radomski and Brian McNamee previously cooperated with MLB

103 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. lifelong - Jun 5, 2013 at 8:34 AM

    Mike Lupica is such a tool.

    • dannymac17 - Jun 5, 2013 at 8:36 AM

      i couldnt agree more.

      • Old Gator - Jun 5, 2013 at 12:48 PM

        I think he’s one of those omnibus pocket gizmos that can deploy all kinds of differently sized and shaped penises.

  2. doble37 - Jun 5, 2013 at 8:39 AM

    When you refer to Lupica, you also need to put quotes around “journalist”.

    • Glenn - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:39 AM

      You shouldn’t question Mr Lupica’s journalistic integrity…. you would have to assume that he had some to do so.

  3. heyblueyoustink - Jun 5, 2013 at 8:39 AM

    He looks like a poor man’s Benicio Del Toro.

    • Alex K - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:16 AM

      That seems like an insult to Mr. Del Toro (the super poor man’s Brad Pitt).

    • fanofevilempire - Jun 5, 2013 at 12:12 PM

      He looks like a honest guy to me.

  4. chill1184 - Jun 5, 2013 at 8:48 AM

    Dude looks like Scott Hall (Razor Ramon for those old school wrestling fans) after a few drinks and pills

    • heyblueyoustink - Jun 5, 2013 at 8:51 AM

      Ah, yes, that works too! All he needs is a toothpick. He’s preparing for the razor’s edge, we just have to wait for the script to play out.

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:49 AM

        I loved that movie. (first, not second)

      • heyblueyoustink - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:57 AM

        One I have not seen.

        /hangs head in shame

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:14 AM

        What? The first was Tyrone Power and Gene Tierney. Beautiful. The second was an interesting Bill Murray re-interpretation (interesting, though not good). I’m a Maugham fan, so…

    • snowbirdgothic - Jun 5, 2013 at 8:55 AM

      Ben Stiller in Permanent Midnight.

      • baseballici0us - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:46 AM

        He looks like the real father of the that kid in “meet the parents”

    • uwsptke - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:01 AM

      “Hey, yo…”

  5. unclemosesgreen - Jun 5, 2013 at 8:58 AM

    Love the “commentariat”, but I do not think it means what you think it means. I feel like WE are the commentariat. Lupica belongs to the bourgeois talking head class. We need a phrase for it that is equal to but on opposite sides of the class struggle as the commentariat.

    • ptfu - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:46 AM

      If Lupica is a bourgeois anything, then I don’t want to live on this planet any more.

    • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:51 AM

      “baseball booboisie” (a la Mencken)

      • unclemosesgreen - Jun 5, 2013 at 1:43 PM

        winner

  6. chc4 - Jun 5, 2013 at 8:58 AM

    If Bosch has the records to back up whoever he implicates then the implicated players are screwed. If he does not then they’ll get off. It’s that simple. No one is going to believe Bosch at his word just like they shouldn’t blindly trust Braun, Melky or A-Rod.

    Craig’s take on these matters is so predictable. Can’t wait for the inevitable “there’s no empirical evidence steroids/HGH enhance performance so why does it matter if players take them” defense. Weak, weak.

    • paperlions - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:04 AM

      Nice conflation. The fact that steroids/HGH have a smaller effect than things like amphetamines on baseball performance has nothing to do with: 1) opinions about punishment for breaking rules or 2) opinions about the rights of the accused to defend themselves.

      HGH does nothing for a baseball player and steroids generally have a small effect and only if player hit the gym really really hard (and those small steroidal benefits are highly temporary and quickly lost if players don’t keep taking them and keep working out hard). Nonetheless, I think any player proven to be in violation of the agreed upon drug testing program should be punished accordingly. I am also willing to reserve judgement until the process is completed and the evidence is provided (rather than just assuming everyone accused is guilty).

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:54 AM

        Or not guilty. WE DON’T KNOW!!! dun-dun-dun…

      • rufuscornpone - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:22 AM

        HGH does nothing for a baseball player and steroids generally have a small effect and only if player hit the gym really really hard (and those small steroidal benefits are highly temporary and quickly lost if players don’t keep taking them and keep working out hard)

        I keep seeing this argument being made and have, frankly, no forkin clue what the hell you’re talking about.
        Now, off the gate, let me say that I in no way think the entire 90s offensive explosion was the result of steroids. Secondly, I do not in any way think that steroids have the same effect on every player.

        But…steroids have only a “small efftect”? I don’t understand where this argument comes from. Ignoring of the obvious examples of guys like Barry Bonds shattering their previous (very excellent) bests in power numbers well into their late 30s, it actually strikes me that steroids would have a bigger effect on baseball than any other sport. Here me out:

        Let’s say, for the sake of argument (there are articles that support this, this is not my idea), that a sprinter takes steroids, trains (obviously) and increases his running speed by 2%. His 2% increase will take his time from 10 seconds to 9.8…hardly noticeable.

        But baseball isn’t timed. Let’s say those steroids help that baseball player hit a ball 2% harder. That isn’t the difference of 2 tenths of a second, that can mean the difference of several warning track outs turning into home runs Two extremely different results from only a marginal increase in strength from steroid use.

        It just strikes me that baseball can benefit in a very unique way from steroids. You just seem to be taking the opposite position of everyone who says the entire 90s offensive explosion was because of steroids and simply stating “steroids didn’t matter at all! What does an increase in strength have to do with hitting a baseball!” It seems to be that argument is just as absurd, just on the opposite end of the spectrum.

      • paperlions - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:14 AM

        There have been plenty of studies the looked for the signal of steroid use, and they couldn’t find any. What they did find was a signal related to changes in ball composition. Unless you really think that every player started doing steroids in the middle of 1993, when the HR rate exploded, then there isn’t any evidence that steroids had any effect on performance, per se. While that ball was in use, HR rates stayed pretty steady. When steroid testing began, HR rates did not decline one bit. When amphetamine testing began, HR rates did start to drop.

        The biggest effect steroids had was to help players stay on the field, which isn’t much different than use of corticosteroids or any pain reliever.

        Hitting a baseball is a highly derived skill, and strength is only part of the equation when it comes to generating power. If you really think steroids have a huge effect, why didn’t Bonds home run production change between 1993 and the end of his career? He had the 1 outlier season, otherwise he hit HRs at a rate of about 45 per 162 games every year, year after year, when he was skinny and when he was huge. He only hit 50+ HR once.

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:28 AM

        My performance has improved since I got my shot.

      • paperlions - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:31 AM

        Man….so many ways to go with this one. For my own safety, I think I’ll just pass though.

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:34 AM

        Boooo!!!!

        I’m being a stinker!

      • paperlions - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:35 AM

        Hormone replacement therapy?

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:36 AM

        Does that help your knees?

      • paperlions - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:45 AM

        I’d give it a…um…shot, if it would. Glucosamine has actually helped my knees a lot….I was dubious, but it was on sale and I had a buy 1 get 1 free coupon. Glad I did.

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:50 AM

        You go first and let me know how it goes.

      • paperlions - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:51 AM

        Will do.

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:51 AM

        LOL I got the cortisone shot, btw.

      • paperlions - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:53 AM

        Be careful, those pedicure injuries can be slow to heal.

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:55 AM

        You know it. I don’t think I’m going to do it again.

  7. brewcrewfan54 - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:00 AM

    I’m not stupid, at this point I’m pretty sure Braun is guilty. That being said MLB has a vendetta aginst Braun and ARod and thos guy is willing to tell them what they want to hear to save his own ass. Even if everything he says is true how can anyone trust this guy?

    • cur68 - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:06 AM

      Well, there it is. The very summation of my thoughts on this. How can you trust Bosch’s word? MLB, if they are prepared to proceed with suspensions based on his word, are going to have to demonstrate just that. Because, if they don’t have physical evidence and/or corroborating eye witness testimony, what they’ll get back is one HELL of a fight from the Player’s Association. The foundation of The MLBPA’s argument will be “This guy will do or say anything in order to not face lawsuit” and, in all likelihood, they’ll be able to prove that, too.

  8. Darkoestrada - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:02 AM

    Lets not forget that MLB is helping this shady (but apparently reputable) guy with all the trouble he’s gotten himself into by being a shady guy in exchange for testimony. I can’t believe MLB is going to these extremes for revenge on just a couple players and making baseball fans go through another year of unbearable ped coverage from the past.

    • chip56 - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:24 AM

      MLB has no interest in Bosch’s criminal dealings outside of how they impact baseball and they shouldn’t. MLB is not a government law enforcement agency. If your boss saw you buying drugs and you denied it but the dealer confirmed it, where does your boss’s interest lay: seeing the dealer prosecuted or firing you for violation of your company’s anti-drug policy?

      • nategearhart - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:36 AM

        But does your boss go out of his way to hire security for the dealer and back him up in court?

  9. hushbrother - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:07 AM

    I agree with Craig for the most part, however I don’t think it’s correct to completely dismiss Bosch’s testimony either. Unless these allegations are being made up out of thin air, these players WERE lining up to see him, and Bosch’s activities were more in the nature of a “kingpin” than of some two-bit street scammer, and it certainly was appropriate that MLB should investigate the matter.

    The problem is there is no burden of proof on MLB that it must reach for it to have grounds to penalize the players. The end result MLB seeks to achieve, as Craig says, is not to learn the truth, it’s to find sufficient or “just” cause to suspend these players, because that will placate certain people (in the media, the government, or wherever) it feels need to be placated.

    • chip56 - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:21 AM

      But that’s the deal the players signed. They could have collectively bargained for a greater burden of proof and didn’t because the clean players don’t want steroids in the game any more than MLB does.

  10. chip56 - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:15 AM

    A few points:

    1. MLB is not interested in the people selling the steroids, nor should they be as MLB is not a law enforcement agency. MLB’s interest is in punishing their employees who use these substances in violation of league policy. For example: if a police officer beats a suspect, internal affairs doesn’t worry necessarily about what the suspect did, but about the officer’s treatment of the suspect because that is their area.

    2. Going after Bosch as being a scumbag and indicating that he shouldn’t be trusted and that MLB lacks the resources to confirm his statements is great hyperbole for someone like Craig who has established himself as an apologist for the PED users. That said, just because someone is a scumbag doesn’t mean he is incapable of telling the truth and, to the best of my knowledge MLB again is not a government entity – their burden of proof is not the same as a criminal trial would be. And btw…the players agreed to that standard.

    3. Lupica is an ass.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:37 AM

      2. Going after Bosch as being a scumbag and indicating that he shouldn’t be trusted and that MLB lacks the resources to confirm his statements is great hyperbole for someone like Craig who has established himself as an apologist for the PED users.

      I love how when someone says people should be given the benefit of the doubt and let the legal process work itself out before coming to judgment is considered an “apologist”. Besides being some absurd buzzword used as a scare tactic from the right, what does it mean to be an apologist? Is Craig sorry that people are using PEDs?

      That said, just because someone is a scumbag doesn’t mean he is incapable of telling the truth and, to the best of my knowledge MLB again is not a government entity – their burden of proof is not the same as a criminal trial would be. And btw…the players agreed to that standard.

      No, it doesn’t mean he isn’t lying, but his credibility will be tested in front of an arbitrator. Make no mistake, the players will appeal this and unless Bosch has some smoking gun that we don’t know about, the players should win. Do y’all realize that the “evidence “in this case is handwritten notes on college ruled paper with names written in magic marker? This isn’t like BALCO where the Feds seized cycle calendars, spreadsheets with payment information, etc. I could reproduce this “evidence” in 30 sec and say look, “I’ve been supplying the entire Red Sox team with PEDs. Go get them!”

      • blabidibla - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:43 AM

        You do realize they can establish the age of an ink’s application to paper, right? Reproducing the evidence is much harder than you think.

    • nategearhart - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:38 AM

      Craig is calling out Lupica’s calling him a scumbag then backing off, not calling him a scumbag himself.
      And MLB is not law enforcement, but it sends a very bad message for them to offer to hire this guy security and especially to offer to basically have his back in court.

      • chip56 - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:53 AM

        MLB’s only responsibility is to clean up their game.

        Consider it like Internal Affairs offering a mob boss witness protection if he gives them all the dirty cops on his payroll.

      • nategearhart - Jun 5, 2013 at 12:08 PM

        Not exactly an apt analogy. What if Coca-Cola had a rampant cocaine problem, and offered this same deal to a caught cocaine dealer so that it could punish a bunch of its employees? Yes, they’re doling out punishment, but are they really “cleaning up the company”? Are they discouraging cocaine dealers from pushing to their employees?
        No, MLB cannot “punish” drug dealers, but it sure as hell shouldn’t encourage them either.

  11. voteforno6 - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:29 AM

    Do we know what Bosch will actually say, or are these anonymous sources putting stuff out there, to maybe scare some of the players into fessin’ up? Also, how can MLB possibly suspend anyone just based on this guy’s word? At the very least, they should have legitimate records of PED use, rather than just his handwritten notes. Part of me wonders if MLB is going to push this this, as a means of trying to break the union.

  12. chc4 - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:33 AM

    Sounds good but you have as much evidence to support your opinion as those that claim steroids/HGH do affect performance. See Bonds, McGwire, Canseco, Brady Anderson, Clemens etc. And I guess it was coincidence that Melky gets busted during the tail end of a career season. And how’s he doing this season? Back to being an average (at best) player.

    There’s a reason these guys take this stuff. There is at least no doubt that roids/HGH help a player heal quicker. That’s the definition of performance enhancement. And MLB has banned them. So frankly it doesn’t matter what their impact is… you take em you get suspended. End of story.

    • Old Gator - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:39 AM

      So is the object of the CBA to keep guys from healing faster – ie, keep them on the DL as long as possible so that insurance can pick up part of their salaries or something?

      • chc4 - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:09 AM

        My comment was directed at paperlions who claims steroids have no impact on performance (which is an opinion not fact). So my point was that at the very least we can agree that they do in fact speed healing. Which is by definition performance enhancement. But that’s all secondary. PEDs are against the rules. Players signed off on it so those that are proven to have broken the rules have nothing to whine about.

        And the insurance aspect is largely irrelevant. Guys on the 15 day DL aren’t covered by insurance. Most of the time the player needs to be out for 45-90 days in order for the team to recoup 1/2 the players salary. And with contracts getting so huge and long, many of the megadeals aren’t insurable… insurance companies won’t touch em.

      • Old Gator - Jun 5, 2013 at 12:51 PM

        Mine was totally facetious. On the other hand, I’ve never been able to understand the logic of banning a healing agent.

    • rufuscornpone - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:37 AM

      Again…why does Brady Anderson keep getting brought into this/

      Bonds- Excellent proof of steroid use
      Clemens- Tons of proof of steroid use
      Canseco- Admitted steroid use
      McGwire- Admitted steroid use
      Anderson- Hit 50 homers once.

      One of these things is not like the other. Yes, he had a power surge, so did Davey Anderson, Roger Maris, and many others. Now, Anderson may well have done steroids…obviously many players in that era did. But hitting 50 home runs once is far from proof. Did Anderson take steroids, hit 50 homers then decide being really, really awesome at baseball blew and got off them again?

      • rufuscornpone - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM

        Yes, he had a power surge, so did Davey Anderson

        Davey Anderson??? I mean Davey Johnson.

        Though Dave Anderson’s 4 home run explosion in 1985 sure seems suspicious…

      • cur68 - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:22 AM

        rufus: I really don’t want to get drawn into another drawn out ‘roids argument again BUT you might want to have a look at this:

        http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2001-06-03/topic/0106030153_1_sammy-sosa-ball-circumference

        Now, if you read that article right into the 2nd page, you might have some answers. That mid 90’s power explosion could have a much less complicated explanation than the chancy use of steroids by people who are ignorant of dosage, timing of dosage, and the uncertain outcome of being bigger and stronger. After all, if power was such a factor, explain Dan Uggla, Roger Bernadina, Wily Mo Pena and host of other built-up guys who hit for crap. The “lively, dry ball” also explains Brady Anderson’s 50 HR season, by the way.

  13. Old Gator - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:34 AM

    What’s next – the rehabilitation of George W. Bush? The horror, the horror.

  14. thedoubleentandres - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:34 AM

    For an “anti-aging king” he sure looks like shit.

    • Old Gator - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:37 AM

      Perhaps, but for every Anthony Bosch there’s a Barbara Eden or a Sharon Stone. All you need to do, from what they say on television, is walk around with half a cantaloupe strapped to your face. Clearly, Bosch was too stoned to tell a cantaloupe from a mamey.

      • thedoubleentandres - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:57 AM

        I have it on good authority that Sharon Stone eats babies

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:30 AM

        I am reminded of a wonderful interview with Michael Caine many years ago (Tonight Show, I think). He was asked about the disparity in the quality of his films. On the one hand you have great work and on the other, there’s crap. Caine’s response: Good Lord, I don’t watch my films. They pay me to be in them. They’re all jobs.

  15. randygnyc - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:38 AM

    Baseball has a precedent in dealing with low life scumbags to gather intel for suspensions.

    Didn’t Pete Rose’s ban result from info from a felon?
    How about George Steinbrenner? Wasn’t that informant also a felon?

    For those that are saying that MLB can’t suspend based on the testimony of a drug dealer, I d suspect (but could be wrong), that Bosch has lots of records/documentation in support of his testimony. IMO, no way does Selig rely on a sit down with Bosch with a tape recorder and say, “tell me who used PED’s” and act on that info alone.

    Maybe for this infiltration of garbage into baseball to end, there needs to be an epic, seminal moment that shakes the sport to its foundation.

    And speaking of an infiltration of garbage, why the hell are all these PFT commenters posting here. Go post something, anything, that the Nazi Florio disagrees with and he deletes the comment immediately. And the little p@ssy keeps a list and has his bitches delete on site regardless of the content. We should treat his PFT disciples the same way. They don’t stand up to the elitist douchebag so they should reap what they sow. FUCK FLORIO, liberal scumbag.

    • brewcrewfan54 - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:44 AM

      You mean we can’t be both football and baseball fans? I do agree though Florio sucks they way he picks and chooses which comments he allows to stay on tht site.

      • randygnyc - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:01 AM

        Brewcrew- you’re welcome anywhere I am and although you never have to prove anything to me, you are an invaluable resource here at HBT. You are not the typical PFT commenter.

    • Old Gator - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:53 AM

      Wow. You’re so averse to letting PFT correspondents in here (with which, by the way, I do sympathize), I gotta wonder how you feel about immigration reform or full legal indigenousness for Burmese pythons, zebra mussels and nutria. And that wonderful temper of yours! Crack a tooth on some buckshot in your eggs this morning, did ya? Ah well – I’ve always said we shouldn’t shoot our chickens in the ass.

      • randygnyc - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:07 AM

        The single cell PFT users that can’t stand up to Florio over his fascist tendencies and poor manners directed to newcomers and guests deserve all the derision one can muster. Those that don’t stand up to douchebaggery become douchebags themselves. Go post some of your thoughts over there, Gator. Lets see if there are any Neanderthals there that can get through the first sentence. Odds are, there’s nary a one.

      • Old Gator - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:22 AM

        I’m sure that with the purloined “single cell PFT users” I would be past most of them already. Great line.

    • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:01 AM

      1) Who’s Florio?

      2) What’s your deal with insulting guys by calling them women? Don’t be a vagina-hater. >:(

      • randygnyc - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:13 AM

        Florio is a little man who wants to be big. He’s a weasel occupying the skin of a human being. He’s the PFT moderator with some serious mental issues. Craig has his faults, but he’s not a censoring douchebag.

        And yes, by calling him names, I’m attempting to emasculate him an and at the same time dehumanize him. He and his fascist, scumbag ways deserve nothing less.

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:15 AM

        But there’s nothing wrong or insulting in being a woman, thank you.

      • Old Gator - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:24 AM

        I’ve been out on dates with them. Yes, that was long ago, but I still carry the scars.

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:25 AM

        I’m sure you’ll get lots of thumbs up for that, OG, but I remain unamused.

      • beebopthearcher - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:43 AM

        Florio is a little man who wants to be big. He’s a weasel occupying the skin of a human being. He’s the PFT moderator with some serious mental issues.

        Umm…from what I gather, he moderates the comments of PFT? So, keep that in perspective. You are being shut down by a guy who moderates comments. Who gives a shit? Just comment somewhere else. He shouldn’t have the power to make you this upset.

      • randygnyc - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:09 AM

        No offense to women intended. Perhaps in my attempt to emasculate the gnome it may have put people off.

        Btw, the two most important people in my life are women, my wife and daughter. I exalt them over all others and in my actions, honor them every hour of every day. Women make the world go round!!

    • thedoubleentandres - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:23 AM

      They are doing wonderful things in mental institutions my friend.

      Surely segregating football fans and baseball fans is quintessential Nazi behaviour.

      I read a comment on PFT yesterday stating that “Obama should be waterboarded” which makes me think Florio isn’t deleting everything he disagrees with.

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM

        “quintessential Nazi behavior” bahahahahahaha Yes, separating sports fans is what Nazism was all about. (Fascism too!)

      • thedoubleentandres - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:07 AM

        Didn’t they make people wear arm bands depicting their favorite sports?

        That guy from the alley that taught me history is full of shit

      • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:30 AM

        I need a baseball armband.

  16. DelawarePhilliesFan - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:39 AM

    When the facts are against you, argue the law. When the law is against you, argue the facts. When the facts and the law are against you, argue like the devil.

    Braun, A-Rod et al are employed by Baseball. Baseball has a few rules that are rather particular and invasive. It looks like these guys broke those rules. And lied. So they are in hot water with their employer.

    Sorry, I just can’t lump them in with the great victims of 21st century injustice. They are morons who had it made, are now going to pay a fine, and will still have it made.

    • Old Gator - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:56 AM

      I definitely agree about the ‘moron’ part. How much pitting and corrosion of your cerebral cortex do you need to go do business with an Anthony Bosch when you already know that MLB and the press are watching you like predator drones?

    • Sign Ahead - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:35 AM

      I agree, the rules of the game are very important. But I don’t think that suspensions based on Bosch’s testimony would actually follow MLB’s rules.

      According to MLB’s Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program (what I think of as “Baseball’s PED Rulebook”), there are three ways to earn a suspension:

      1. Test positive for PEDs (50 games for the first offense)

      2. Fail to comply with the testing or treatment program (15-25 games for a first offense)

      3. Be convicted for using or possessing a prohibited substance (60-80 games for a first-time PED conviction, 25-50 games for other drugs)

      I don’t see how Bosch’s testimony fits into any of these categories. To me, suspending player’s based on his word, or even the records kept at his clinic, is breaking the rules to enforce the rules. It doesn’t make a lot of sense.

      • DelawarePhilliesFan - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:20 AM

        His testimony will not result in a suspension, I agree. But if he has documentation, that absolutley is within the CBA. Manny Rodriguez’s second possession was actaully for the presecription note, not the test. He failed the test but appealed that test. While that was being appealed, MLB produced the prescription, and suspended him for that.

        We will see what Bosch has

  17. icanspeel - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:40 AM

    I don’t think his character will be as important if he has tangible proof towards specific players. If he doesn’t, and baseball still punishes the players just on his word then that will cause a lot of chaos.

  18. rbj1 - Jun 5, 2013 at 9:40 AM

    As sleazy as Bosch is, I believe him more than Mike Lupica.

  19. elmo - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:26 AM

    So in other words, don’t lynch the players–lynch Bosch.

    • historiophiliac - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:33 AM

      Hey, hey, hey, how did we get to lynching? Eesh.

      • elmo - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:40 AM

        Mentioned several times in previous comments. Perhaps I should have ended that sentence with a question mark. Point is, there’s more heat than light here, on both sides.

  20. ningenito78 - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:34 AM

    MLB is not basing their investigation solely on Bosch’s word. They have his business records, which were obtained during discovery and were the main reason for the lawsuit. They simply want Bosch to confirm what the records already say. As usual Craig shaping the story.

    • amuccigr - Jun 5, 2013 at 12:21 PM

      This is exactly correct.

      Other than asking the players, which, amnesty or not, is very unlikely to work, how do you prove any of this? Unless you don’t, which is an entirely different argument. We know the guy is a low life, most people facilitating these type of things are.

  21. nobody78 - Jun 5, 2013 at 10:35 AM

    Presumably, they won’t take Bosch’s word unless he provides persuasive corroborating evidence. Don’t you think he will?

    Baseball has made it absolutely clear over the past couple of years that it regards the PED rule as sacrosanct. You can make a case for leniency toward those who used during the 90s and early 00s, but at this point, MLB needs to punish all infractions and severely.

  22. mazblast - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:36 AM

    Does anyone have any proof that the stuff Bosch allegedly sold/gave the players really was banned substances? I’m wondering.

    As for proof itself, if there’s one thing Roger Goodell and David Stern have proven, it’s that a Commissioner doesn’t need proof if he REALLY wants to suspend or fine people in any capricious, arbitrary, and hamhanded way. A Commissioner is jury, judge, prosecutor, and Lord High Executioner.

    Here’s how I see it playing out, after all the appeals and grievances are resolved–

    A-Roid has “setbacks” in his “rehab” from his “injury”, just enough to cover the period of the suspension he won’t officially get (because no YANKEE would ever officially do anything wrong; they don’t even litter or jaywalk, and they all go to Mass every day, even if they’re not Catholic).

    Cano will be exonerated, mostly because he probably didn’t do anything but partially because he’s a YANKEE.

    Cervelli will be traded, then suspended, keeping the no-YANKEE-ever-gets-suspended streak going.

    Braun will be found guilty but serve only the 50-game suspension.

    The others will get 50 games, except Grandal, who’s already served a 50 and will get 100.

  23. ningenito78 - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:40 AM

    @mazblast. Shut up. You just sound like a whiny Yankee hating tool. Which is why nobody bothered responding to your first idiotic post.

  24. pillowporkers - Jun 5, 2013 at 11:44 AM

    I love all the people on here bickering about how much PEDs affect your play. 1. we will never know the answer to this as every human body is different 2. its not really relevant to the topic. they are against the rules, and they definitely help you to some unknown nth degree.

    If they didn’t help you at all, no players would take them considering the risk of suspension and tarnishment of their name. Players who choose not to take them shouldn’t be at a disadvantage by following the rules. The only other way to deal with them is to say that all PEDs are legal for all players to use, and everyone knows this won’t happen due to PR, ethical, and health reasons. So let’s stay on topic here of whether or not Bosch should be trusted.

  25. ssazz - Jun 5, 2013 at 12:17 PM

    So, as usual, to get traffic, this “headline” is misleading and meaningless. Why didn’t Craig just be honest and call it “I’m going to whine about a couple of paragraphs Mike Lupica wrote”, because that is the sum total of his …I don’t know, “argument”, “point”? What does Lupica have to do with any of this anyway?

    Bosch may be completely untrustworthy, or not, why don’t we wait and see what charges MLB makes. And then see how much those charges are based on things Bosch is just claiming or if they’re based on more substantial evidence he is providing.

    No matter what kind of a scumbag Bosch may be, pre or post rehabilitation, I’ve yet to see him give a major press conference and sanctimoniously lie though his teeth the way Braun did.

    And if his character is so low that now Mike Lupica is somehow charged with rehabilitating it (conspiracy theory much) then what were these players doing at his clinic to begin with? Let Bosch answer those questions and I’ll judge at the appropriate time as to whether I think the evidence he provided has merit, or if it seems MLB was suckered. Crying about a Mike Lupica article now is less than meaningless in addressing the charges MLB will or won’t make in regard to these players, and the evidence they’ll use to base such charges on. If it’s all just verbal claims Bosch is making with nothing to support it, then nobody needs to cry for the players, they’ll have more than enough representation and avenues to fight these charges. Regardless of what Mike Lupica writes.

    • tycobbfromfangraphs - Jun 5, 2013 at 12:39 PM

      Both Craig and Pouliot lower themselves to play the troll while the rest stay legit. I get a kick reading what guys who’s never played a serious level in any sport at any age, who were always picked last for any team has to say about sport.

      It’s almost always judgmental and from the outside looking in.

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