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Report: MLB has “tons” of witnesses beyond Anthony Bosch

Jun 7, 2013, 8:23 AM EDT

Bud Selig AP

Steven Marcus of Newsday reports that MLB has “tons” of witnesses beyond just Anthony Bosch in its case against the Biogenesis players:

Major League Baseball’s investigation into Alex Rodriguez and other players is being built on testimony and evidence provided by many witnesses in addition to the cooperation of the anti-aging clinic’s founder, Anthony Bosch, a source familiar with the probe said Thursday …¬†According to the source, interviews with “tons” of people will help frame the basis of MLB’s investigation.

This could mean something. It could mean nothing. It totally depends on who those witnesses are.

For example, if the “tons” of witnesses are merely other Biogenesis employees, you have the same problems that Major League Baseball has with Anthony Bosch. Many of these employees are alleged to have tried to sell their story to the media and to sell records and documents as well. Moreover, they all may, like Bosch in most cases, be a step removed from the players themselves, having sold drugs to intermediareis, employees of players and people like that. As we learned the other day, arbitrators will want to have direct evidence of player use of drugs, not just delivery or purchase.

More¬†damning witnesses, however, would be the “intermediaries” mentioned in Tuesday’s ESPN report. The people who actually supplied drugs to players. For example, if MLB has access to that employee of the Levinson Brothers who is alleged to have given drugs to players and attempted to cover up their use, that would be pretty darn significant. Or people who witnessed players actually taking banned drugs. The simple notion, though, that the sheer number of witnesses equals a strong case is wrong. After all, the Clemens prosecutors called 23 witnesses. That didn’t work out so good.

So yes, this could be pretty big. It just really hinges, however, on who these guys are.

  1. cocheese000 - Jun 7, 2013 at 8:29 AM

    Is Jose canseco writing a book about the biogenesis clinic?

    • sportsfan18 - Jun 7, 2013 at 8:33 PM

      Dude was and is crazy, but we all know he was right about much of what he said…

  2. largebill - Jun 7, 2013 at 8:45 AM

    Even if additional witnesses include biogenesis employees, additional corroboration changes the strength of the case from just being Bosch. Having served on juries I can tell you that multiple witnesses have a lot greater weight than a single witness which can be easily dismissed.

    • evanwins - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:43 AM

      Not only that but I wouldn’t be surprised if players who aren’t using PED’s effect this whole case somewhat.

      Everyone is taking for granted that the player’s union is really going to put up a huge fight about all of this but it seems to me that the players are tired of this cheating. The player’s union has to represent the interests of the majority of the players nit the handful who are cheating.

      I think this case is going to mark a turn from within about how the players feel about PEDs.

      • stoutfiles - Jun 7, 2013 at 1:25 PM

        Agreed. There’s only so much money and so many roster spots, and if cheaters are getting both then the non-cheaters should be royally pissed off.

        You’ve got Rivera and Sabathia defending A-Rod, but those are big name players who got their big paydays. What about the players behind A-Rod doing it the right way who didn’t get called up because he was crushing 50 homers a year on the juice?

  3. dan1111 - Jun 7, 2013 at 8:46 AM

    Also not clear: how many is “tons” of witnesses? Is it dozens of skinny witnesses, or a few really fat ones? And is MLB encouraging them to increase their weight–say, by increasing their muscle mass through chemical means–so that its case will be more impressive? The defense should look into this.

    • DelawarePhilliesFan - Jun 7, 2013 at 8:48 AM

      You know….you see a headline, you quickly think of a funny take on it, and someone beats you to the punch….

      I was going to do the math: tons = at least 4,000 pounds, so are we talking 250 per witness? 200?

      • paperlions - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:17 AM

        You figure at an anti-aging clinic in Miami, most employees should be in shape, right? Appearances have to mean something. You figure then that average female employee weight is probably around 120 lb or so, with males averaging around 180. If you have an even sex ration, that would mean at least 14 women and 13 men (4020 lbs) to get to “tons” (assuming it is not metric tons).

      • DelawarePhilliesFan - Jun 7, 2013 at 11:13 AM

        I think you nailed the math, good sir! We need at least 27 witnesses

    • 4d3fect - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:56 AM

      Just a couple of Colons is all it would take.

  4. rockthered1286 - Jun 7, 2013 at 8:47 AM

    Is this picture of Ol’ Buddy Boy showing him pointing, or merely gesturing a Pinocchio-esque nose growth?

  5. natslady - Jun 7, 2013 at 8:49 AM

    Craig–take the day of!! Here, ladies, the Antidote to Bosch.

    http://i.imgur.com/U31SjCe.gif

    And, lemme go find that picture of Bryce modeling underpants.

    photo/1

    • historiophiliac - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:58 AM

      I’m totally traumatized now…

  6. heyblueyoustink - Jun 7, 2013 at 8:51 AM

    You’re off for the day, aren’t you Magnum C.C.?

    Leave the adventures of Anthony Bosch and the Lonely Enlarged Hearts Band alone until next week and enjoy a free Friday!

    • ditto65 - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:11 AM

      CC never rests.

      • heyblueyoustink - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:25 AM

        ” I’ll get all the sleep i’ll need when i’m dead. “

      • Old Gator - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:33 AM

        Zevon overquote.

  7. Old Gator - Jun 7, 2013 at 8:54 AM

    I find it difficult to imagine the depth of the stupidity of even a professional athlete who, knowing he’s being watched by the league, the press and the predator drone operators over at Langley, still lets himself be observed in the act of buying or taking this stuff by “tons” of witnesses – or, frankly, by more than one. If any of these guys are actually nailed in this manner, they should not only be suspended but sterilized to remove their idiocy chromosomes from the gene pool.

    • dan1111 - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:11 AM

      You had my upvote until you closed with that sterilization bit. But, yeah, I agree. I seriously doubt that “tons” of people saw anything of interest. More likely, it is tons of people who all saw the same document with someone’s name on it or heard something from someone else.

    • leerosenthall - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:16 AM

      Oh, come on! Who wouldn’t let some glass-eyed “nutritionist” (Hey, it say’s “Dr.” right on his lab coat!) shoot him up with some super special vitamin shot?

    • heyblueyoustink - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:32 AM

      It’s funny, as I was mowing the lawn before the storms last night, I actually pondered the quandry of a race, humans, who could come up with the theory of “survival of the fittest”, and then defy that theory by providing the services an support for the non fit, and whether or not that’s further damnation of the human race besides all of the environmental offenses.

      • historiophiliac - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:56 AM

        Dude, that’s what makes us different/better than cows. Well, that and collective memory, per Nietzsche. Ok, let’s add external memory storage to that. Oh, and aqueducts. But, that’s it.

      • heyblueyoustink - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:04 AM

        Are the worst of us really better than cows though? Milk, strip steaks, lawn management?

        I’m not so sold.

        Aqueducts are cool though.

        ( Good ole Friedrich, not my favorite existentialist, but entertaining none the less )

      • Old Gator - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:39 AM

        I prefer real milk to soy milk, despite the difference in cost. It dates back to a traumatic experience I had at my socialist youth camp organic farm. I was milking a soybean and was distracted for a second by a cry of ecstasy from the hayloft, and when I turned back the soybean kicked me right in the teeth. Cows rule.

      • heyblueyoustink - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:59 AM

        Damn mutant soy bean. Further proof Monsanto creates monsters.

      • Old Gator - Jun 7, 2013 at 12:28 PM

        Huh. And here I thought Monsanto was those yuppie pre-kindergartens where they send precocious little brats to learn to stop fingerpainting the wallpaper with their poop.

      • historiophiliac - Jun 7, 2013 at 12:56 PM

        Seriously? Three hours and no one got the Monty Python reference??? :(

      • daisycutter1 - Jun 7, 2013 at 1:04 PM

        Maybe the Romans didn’t do quite enough for us.

      • raysfan1 - Jun 7, 2013 at 1:25 PM

        Historiophiliac,
        I used a “Young Frankenstein” reference in the post about Bryce Harper going to see Dr James Andrews & nobody verbally acknowledged it either. Just assume the “thumbs up,” including the one from me are from those who got the joke.

      • mazblast - Jun 7, 2013 at 2:29 PM

        historio, I got it, but I only got on this thread just now.

        Monty Python aside, I’d add beer and/or pizza to the list. And bikinis on the right women.

  8. 11thstreetmafia - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:12 AM

    Old Gator— you can’t believe the depth of stupidity? Have you seen these guys guaranteed contracts? Suspend me for 50 or 100. Just don’t forget to pay me a bajillion dollars. A-Rod has made over 350 million dollars! How stupid, you clown.

    • Old Gator - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:27 AM

      Stupidity isn’t relative to its consequences or lack of consequences. It’s a real and existing metaphysical principle in itself, like curved space, you hopeless Newtonian.

      • sandwiches4ever - Jun 7, 2013 at 11:18 AM

        I upvoted this solely for the “you hopeless Newtonian” crack. We need more insults like this in our daily discourse.

      • Old Gator - Jun 7, 2013 at 11:43 AM

        Yes, and we need to use the term “discourse” in place of the stale “conversation.” Sweet Foucault lives.

      • yahmule - Jun 7, 2013 at 3:35 PM

        I hope a place will still remain for “shooting the shit”.

      • Old Gator - Jun 7, 2013 at 4:41 PM

        in French poststructural discourse? Of course. Here: http://www.amazon.com/History-Shit-Documents-Dominique-Laporte/dp/0262621606/ref=la_B001H6SBSO_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370637633&sr=1-1

  9. deathmonkey41 - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:17 AM

    Selig is just making sure no big name Red Sox players are implicated before going public with this stuff- he wants to make sure he doesn’t deviate from the first “steroid investigation”.

  10. drewsylvania - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:19 AM

    It also depends on who Selig can buy or coerce into testifying. Players lie and cheat, why not the owners?

  11. drewsylvania - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:20 AM

    11th–they’re suspended without pay.

  12. breastfedted - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:21 AM

    And so Craig’s daily pro-steroids campaign begins. We’ll likely see another 15-20 entries by Craig today that all essentially say the same thing and try to make excuses for the actions of roiders and tell us this Biogenesis guy is Satan himself.

    • Old Gator - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:34 AM

      Sounds like someone put some stupid pills in your La Leche, Teddybear. Craig has never been pro-steroids and you sound like an idiot as well as incapable of reading with any modicum of discrimination.

      • 4d3fect - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:59 AM

        You’re feeding the troll, OG. Life’s to short, remember?

      • 4d3fect - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:00 AM

        Damn, damn, TOO, not to.*grumble stupid spell-check*

      • jimmyt - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:05 AM

        If you really believe C.C. has never been pro-steroids you have no reading comprehension at all.

      • Old Gator - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:37 AM

        Go find me a post wherein Craig has come out in favor of steroids as opposed to due process per se. Cite date and the headline of the blog. No rush. I have all day.

      • raysfan1 - Jun 7, 2013 at 12:18 PM

        There’s a large segment who sincerely think that advocating adherence to written agreements and opposition to draconian punishments based on hearsay equates to being pro-PED.

        The ones with that point of view do not care that Craig has never once said PEDs were good nor that, when he stated that using the dealer to go after the users does not help solve the PED problem, it automatically means he acknowledges that PEDs are a problem.

    • nategearhart - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:50 AM

      There’s no way, but NO way you actually read the post before writing this comment.

      • cur68 - Jun 7, 2013 at 11:01 AM

        Nate, these people don’t READ. They have a narrative in their heads and they RUN with it, baby.

        Read. Huh. As if.

    • kehnn13 - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:38 PM

      I consider this post pro steroids… http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/28/the-case-for-barry-bonds-and-roger-clemens-induction-to-the-hall-of-fame/

      • kehnn13 - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:43 PM

        Not to mention the guy thinks McGwire should be in the hall…it doesnt get much more pro steroid than that. The only major cheat he doesnt want in is Palmeiro…

  13. bsqesq - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM

    Every time Craig beats the “they can’t prove it drum” or the “those witnesses are unreliable so I refuse to consider anything they have to say” drum, I think of this.

    http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/5uemlz/chappelle-s-show-celebrity-trial-jury-selection

    Craig plays the role of Dave Chappelle.

  14. druhlman - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:25 AM

    How often does the judicial system use bargains to motivate witnesses? Seems to me giving one person with the right info immunity to catch the larger number of wrong do-ers is standard operating procedure.

    • Old Gator - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:32 AM

      This is a distinction Craig has striven to make in the face of irremediable incomprehension: Major League Baseball is not the judicial system. Also, immunity is granted very, very sparingly – not in wholesale clots, as MLB seems to be doing (if you take all these leaks seriously in the first place).

      • raysfan1 - Jun 7, 2013 at 11:26 AM

        And generally the immunity is granted to a lesser criminal to catch the worse one. In law enforcement that would mean immunity for the drug user to nail the dealer.

  15. druhlman - Jun 7, 2013 at 9:35 AM

    My thought was not that MLB is the judicial system but what my point was the MLB is supposed to be better then out own judicial system? People everyday, everywhere bargain to get what they need so why should this make them less credible?

    • raysfan1 - Jun 7, 2013 at 11:52 AM

      You actually bring two issues–deals with witnesses and credibility. The deal affects credibility in that it creates a perception of quid pro quo, that the testimony was bought and thus cannot be trusted. That the informant is a huckster, drug dealer, and has made contradictory comments on the record does not help his credibility. That does not mean his words now are untrue nor that MLB can use him. It does mean MLB will have a tough time making any sanctions stick if that’s all MLB has. Additional witnesses and evidence help, but the quality of the witnesses and evidence is important, which was Craig’s point.

      As for the deal itself, the drug dealer is not under the authority of MLB and the drug advisers are, so to an extent I can see dealing with him. However, if the deal includes actively protecting the drug dealer–even trying to assist him with law enforcement, then I for one have a big problem with that.

      • raysfan1 - Jun 7, 2013 at 11:57 AM

        Drug abusers, not advisers.

        Edit function now, please, because obviously I suck at proof reading.

  16. 4d3fect - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:01 AM

    Burn the witch! Burn!

    • Old Gator - Jun 7, 2013 at 11:45 AM

      You don’t go with the old “throw ‘em in the pond and hang them unless they drown” approach? I bet you sold all your records and replaced them with eight track tapes as soon as it was possible to do so.

  17. anotheryx - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:08 AM

    The thing with credibility issues with drug dealers is that… well they are drug dealers!
    Only do bad stuff with bad guys because they make unreliable witnesses when testifying against you, makes perfect sense!

  18. umrguy42 - Jun 7, 2013 at 10:24 AM

    “arbitrators will want to have direct evidence of player use of drugs, not just delivery or purchase.”

    Actually, since the CBA says that possession itself (whether used or no) is an offence, I would think direct evidence that the player purchased and/or took delivery of the drugs would be sufficient.

  19. randygnyc - Jun 7, 2013 at 11:32 AM

    The players union doesn’t have to institute a rigorous defense of these players. They’ve already stated that the players will receive individual counsel. I’m assuming that defense will be paid for by the union. I’ll also assume players like Arod and Braun will add their own high price counsel to lead their defense. The defense attorneys can/will then force the union to strictly adhere to the CBA, whether their heart is into or not.

  20. stairwayto7 - Jun 7, 2013 at 3:26 PM

    Is Ken Camanetti one of them? oh wait??

  21. bbk1000 - Jun 7, 2013 at 4:11 PM

    Is Craig apologizing?….no I didn’t think so….he is still wrong…

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